Toyota FJ Cruiser

cbr600rr · March 2005

Quote from havok

"Ever since they started buliding Tacos in the US they've gone to h**l."

The Tacoma has always been made in the US (NUMMI). http://www.nummi.com/timeline.html

Toyota has 12 plants in North America, 10 are in the US. All models have a percentage of parts that come from Japan.

It sucks that the new models have issues, but that's a risk when buying the first year of any vehicle. No excuse, but I am sure they will fix those issues and hopefully the 06' models will be problem free.

I've owned three Tacoma's 1995.5 (first year), 1999 (V6 xtra cab TRD), and 2000 (Prerunner) and they all performed above my expectations. I love the new Tacoma's (hope to get one soon to hold me over until the FJ comes out). My only initial complaints are the interior seems to be a bit weak and the 6 spd. tranny is a bit vague.

I sell Toyota's for a living now and I am impressed with some of the vehicles that I would never buy, but that I get to play with like the Avalon and Sienna.

cbr600rr · March 2005

Quote from bpraxis:

"Did you all see the comment in the popular magazine that the base model will come in less than $20,000?"

Did they say with option packages? Which magazine?

togloonda · March 2005

for the inside yet?

legroom
hiproom
etc

abraindrainer · March 2005

First and foremost the FJ will share its platform with the 4Runner and it will certainly canabalize some of its sales because many of us would probably consider a 4Runner (or Taco) if FJ was not on the horizon.

Secondly, FJ is not an entirely new model, it is a revived entity and thus it will behave simiar to a new version release and not like a completely new model (such as Highlander was). Furthermore, it will have direct competition from Nissan, Honda and Jeep (let's not argue about the exact list) and that will keep the dealer greed in check within a couple months of the release. As such, it will likely see a drop to invoice pricing relatively fast in IMHO.

Let's keep in mind that a 4Runner is currently selling $1-1.5k under invoice and auto sales are only expected to slow in the near future.

togloonda · March 2005

that engine and that look

it will be a hit

robmatt54 · March 2005

Toyota.com says colors will be Titanium Metallic, Black Diamond, Black Cherry Pearl, Atomic Sun and Voodoo Blue. Interior is charcoal grey and 50 accessories including surround sound with speakers in the ceiling. "The FJ can be customized, music to the ears of Gen Y" Please do not do this to me. Looks like a Scion for kids not my swiss army knife FJ cruiser. This is bad news.

nymphetamine · March 2005

"In what is believed to be a world first, speakers are being installed in the lining of the ceiling, proving once again that a venerable predecessor can produce a venturous pioneer."

Sounds great (no pun intended). Not only does that free up interior room, it also allows it to remain water-resistant.

FJ gets better and better.

nippononly · March 2005

don't be disheartened - those things are just accessories. The truck underneath is a winner.

havok · March 2005

Yes, you're right. The Taco brand has always been made in Fremont. But...the Toyota pickup legend had already been long established. By that time they had already sold over 1 million pickups, imported trucks to the US since 1964, and sold their first 4WD US-bound pickups in 1979. The Taco's success rode the coat tails of a pickup truck that had already proven itself.

My point is that Toyota can do better. And we should expect them to! If we accept mediocrity that's what we will get. What are our other choices in pickups? Toyota still makes good trucks. But there was a time when NO ONE could question its reliability and ruggedness.

Until Fremont is fixed, what can we do? Many of the parts are exported from Japan, but most are outsourced to local suppliers.

cbr600rr · March 2005

Quote from Havok: "The Taco's success rode the coat tails of a pickup truck that had already proven itself."

I disagree, the pre-Tacoma trucks were rugged, but they had weak engines, problems with rust, etc. Toyota keeps making their trucks better, year by year and model by model. I've owned three Tacoma's (from 1995.5 to 2000) and they've served me well. The new 2005 Tacoma is even better, it has some minor issues (water leaks and glove box discoloration), but you can bet they will be addressed next year. Right now I can tell you they are selling like crazy, especially the 4x4 models.

Anyone can do better, but there is a cost. Toyota trucks give the best bang for the buck, period! Anyone who wants to upgrade can look to aftermarket manufacturers to suit their needs.

I don't want to argue with you, since I know you are a Toyota fan. You know as do I that no one makes a better truck! :-)

cbr600rr · March 2005

It does keep getting better!

http://www.toyota.com/movingforward/2005/march/fj.html

Here's the best part:

"Inspired by Toyota's legendary FJ 40, the contemporary FJ features the same white roof and wrap-around windows as the classic. Narrow headlamps bracket the front grille, which announces the Toyota name. The two outside mirrors sport spotlights. The license plate holder is set off to one side on the back of the vehicle next to a spare tire on a swinging rear door with a flip-up rear window. All five tires are pumped up to a brawny 32 inches in diameter. Also contributing to the rugged styling is a triple windshield wiper system."

This truck is going to kick as*! I can't wait to get one!!!!

togloonda · March 2005

i fit

nippononly · March 2005

That's all the stuff that I wonder as to whether it will really make it to production. Stuff like mirror-mounted "sport lights" and triple windshield wipers. Not to mention 32x11.50 tires on a production truck would be pretty outlandishly big (not that I don't applaud that!). In fact, I am pretty sure those would be the biggest OEM tires on any light truck sold in the U.S. Perhaps some of the biggest full-size pick-ups have bigger, but we are talking about a small truck here. And big tires add cost, something Toyota has pledged to keep down.

chris65amg · March 2005

I think that they may make the tires an option, but I really like the triple wipers.

togloonda · March 2005

what is the mpg supposed to be like?

abraindrainer · March 2005

Nippononly is probably right: Toyota typically keeps down the cost of the base but loads up the price for useful options. For example, I would expect to have to buy a lot of additional (read overpriced) junk for a unit with bigger tires or side airbags. Try to find another Toyota with side curtains; one always has to buy the "limited" or just below that line. For example, a V6 AWD Highlander with curtains has an MSRP of about 31.5k whereas the base unit is thousands below that mark.

It should start in the lower $20k range but I would also not be surprised if the loaded version will run well into the $30k range. After all, 4Runner and HL price ranges are at least 10k from the base to the top of the line. Toyota has learned too much from the domestic manufacturers and has very different pricing strategies compared to Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. that typically sell only a handful of lines for each model.

V6 4Runner with Automatic: : 18 mpg / 21 mpg. Figure that FJ will be about 400-500 lbs lighter and that may give it another 1-2 mpg. However, it may not if it has bigger/wider tires and it may not be as aerodynamic as the 4Runner. On the flip side: it might get 1 mpg more in a stick shift.

gringo1 · March 2005

"V6 4Runner with Automatic: : 18 mpg / 21 mpg. Figure that FJ will be about 400-500 lbs lighter and that may give it another 1-2 mpg."

The specs are 4000 lbs for FJ vs. 5600 lbs for 4Runner.

togloonda · March 2005

4runner must have a lot of extra crap on it

crap that I don't want

coupedncal · March 2005

"The specs are 4000 lbs for FJ vs. 5600 lbs for 4Runner"

I think you are confusing the gross weight with curb weight. The true weight is the latter and 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD tops the scale at 4300 (per Edmunds). The FJ should be about 4000 + - so the difference isn't going to be that much. My take is the mileage will be about 22 hwy with manual tranny.

gringo1 · March 2005

You are correct!!!

Curb Weight is 4300 for the V6 4Runner per Edmunds.

The article citing the approx 4000 lbs curb weight for the FJ is linked here:

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101856

nippononly · March 2005

Are you sure? I don't think it is - at least i couldn't find it. But 4000 pounds for the 4WD is a good estimate I think. Since it is smaller than the Tacoma, which weighs around 4000, I have faint hopes that it will come in at more like 3800, but I'm not holding my breath.

abraindrainer · March 2005

Frankly, MPG is not going to be a factor for most folks thinking about this vehicle because it is overdesigned for just street use. If you want to chase MPGs, you should look into one of the Toyota's hybrids such as Prius or hybrid Highlander (coming out this summer). Of course, do not expect to ever make back the $4-5k premium that Toyota (and dealers) are currently... charging. You might have a chance if you drive 30-40k miles/year in city traffic. Just some "dollars and sense"...

nippononly · March 2005

sells Prius at list...no premium. But that may not be common, I dunno. They say the wait list is down to 2-8 weeks.

It is true that for a real truck, this projected fuel economy is pretty decent. If you want a small SUV and don't need to go offroad or do anything else "trucky", then RAV or Highlander would be better choices.

gringo1 · March 2005

Outfitted by its Legacy: Toyota's new FJ Cruiser provides kicks for today
BOB GRITZINGER
Published Date: 2/28/05
2007 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER
ON SALE: 2006
From the weblink reference:

BASE PRICE: $23,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 4.0-liter, 245-hp, 282-lb-ft V6; rwd/4wd, five-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT: 4000 lbs (est.)
0 TO 60 MPH: 8.0 seconds (est.)
MORE FJ CRUISER: FJ CRUISER PHOTO GALLERY | FJ CRUISER FORUM | FJ CRUISER SPECS & INFO

If the interior is as spartan as Toyota claims, there can't be a lot of weight.

Oh, wait, those 20 inch tires, silly me.

nippononly · March 2005

I see. Thank you! :-)

Imagine if the actual production model came with 20" rims - like the Ram or something. Not likely, thank goodness!

togloonda · March 2005

care what this thing is aimed at

I (me) want something with this capability

AND I want some kind of mpg for commuting

I want my cake and I want to eat it too.

togloonda · March 2005

please no bling

functional and spartan

cbr600rr · March 2005

Well you will have to wait for your cake then! Toyota is working on making hybrid technology available in all their vehicles, but it will be a while before it's available in an FJ, if ever. You're best bet is to get a cheap, fuel efficent vehicle like a Corolla or Civic for commuting and keep the FJ for the fun stuff.

You can expect the FJ to get about 20-22 mpg (hwy).

As for pricing, I am sure the fully loaded models will be coming close to 28k, similar to the Tacoma. 100% worth the price IMO, it's a Toyota afterall!

mrjjgittes · March 2005

I used to have a "cheap" small car for commuting, and another "fun" car, but after a while it became apparent that the 2 car route just does not make financial sense, when insurance, payments/cost to purchase, registration, and maintenence, are all factored in. In short, you just will not make up the costs through the gas mileage difference unless you are diving 40 or 50k miles a year and the difference in efficiency of the 2 cars is huge. Of course if money is no object, and the fun car is a something exotic or completely impractical, maybe it works. But then, gas prices are not really the issue...

abraindrainer · March 2005

mrjjgittes: your are right, financially it is typically not possible to make a go of it with 2 cars per a person.

But: 2 very different cars can make sense if you have a spouse that has similar utility and desires. It is plausable to have a smaller sporty car for commuting and and SUV for family ski outings to the mountains. I have tried that: wife was orginally driving a sports car and I used the SUV during the week whereas sports car was fun on the weekends; later when our patterns changed, I got the sports car full-time and she got the SUV...

Irony: we now have 2 SUVs!

mrjjgittes · March 2005

Whether environmentalist folks like them are not, there are reasons why SUVs are so popular, and many families have two. They are very useful. I have one now, and may replace the car we have with a second. I used to love sports cars, but now I just get clostrophobic in them. I drove 5 hours to Vegas in a Boxster recently. Torture. And puttering around that town in stop and go was even worse. The question I have now is whether to wait for the FJ, or maybe get a 4runner now. Pretty much decided on some type of toyota though, current problems with the Tacoma notwithstanding.

abraindrainer · March 2005

Personally, I have an older (G2) 4Runner that I am planning to replace even though it is still running very strong. Until FJ release was anounced, G4 4Runner was one of the potential replacements (with WRX, G35x...). However, there is now a reason to wait: even if FJ is not to my liking, 4Runner prices are likely to drop after FJ is released.

Furthermore, car prices are probably only going tread downward over the next couple of years.

togloonda · March 2005

why?

abraindrainer · March 2005

Togloonda: Why what?

The prices on the 4Runner should go down due to increased competition from other brands and cannibalization of sales. 4Runner sales have slipped over the past decade due to releases of Toyota products such as Highlander, Crewcab Taco, etc. as well as additional competion from new SUVs like Pilot, Touraeg, etc.

FYI: SUVs have had some of the highest markups in the automobile industry!

togloonda · March 2005

my question

nippononly · March 2005

that's a pretty diverse group of vehicles you are looking at to replace your G2 4Runner! I also have a G2, and the FJ looks to be the closest thing to it in spec among trucks available now (or soon, anyway). Sort of like a mini-G4 4Runner.

C&D just did a comparo of offroading among midsize truck-based SUVs - the new 4Runner scored fifth out of six. The only reason it didn't come dead last was because the never-very-rugged Explorer XLT edged it out.

I am looking for the FJ to put Toyota back on top of the offroad game....

abraindrainer · March 2005

Well, if I want to replace the off-road capabilities, I would have to go with a new 4Runner or FJ. I want an AWD or 4WD for snow but I might consider less off-roady vehicle with much better preformance: 0-60 in about 6 sec and similar to the MR2 Turbo that I used to drive. However, I am (currently) morally opposed to paying over $35k for a vehicle so that does not leave much. Maybe the new Lexus IS could fit...

I think that there are now a number of decent off-road vehicles but most of them are horrid on-road or they have horrible reliability... and that is too much to sacrifice! Frankly, the 4Runner has slipped a bit by moving too much upscale and away from its original roots. I test drove it in '03 when it came out but it lost out to Pilot: no 3rd row, plastic fenders and funky (useless) option combos and price... They finally have fixed most of those and now offer a 5-speed in a V6. Still, it is very difficult to find side currtains without going all out and getting into the Limited.

My $0.02.

abraindrainer · March 2005

Nipponly: I have taken my G2 4Runner on the Broken Arrow trail a number of times (running stock and on 30" tires) when I lived in AZ. This is a very serious ride in a stock 4x4. Most will scrape something and the only way to avoid that is to get a lift. I cannot believe that anyone would try it with only 8" of clearance or in an Exloder. However, I am surpised that some vehicles would lift tires off the ground (lacking articulation) yet rank better than the G4 4Runner.

You're right, FJ will do better because of its geometry...

abraindrainer · March 2005

Actually, that test is not looking at only off road capabilities because most ratings are given to fuffy stuff like comfort and "desirability". 4Runner does score very high in drive terrain and braking which are MOST important off road. This is a pretty bogus test IMHO!

nippononly · March 2005

with 4Runner now is poor departure and breakover angles. Well, and stock ground clearance is down 2 inches versus my G2 running on 31" tires. But that is less important - some pretty decent offroad trucks have less than ten inches of running ground clearance nowadays.

As you say, the geometry of the FJ should eliminate those problems. A stock 4x4 Tacoma is running ten inches of ground clearance even now, I think, so FJ should do the same. And with much shorter overhangs and a shorter wheelbase, I expect most of the other numbers to fall right into line.

I wanna check out this Broken Arrow!

theory2 · March 2005

http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-chicago-auto-lg/IMG_3204.jpg
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-chicago-auto-lg/IMG_3203.jpg
-theory2

gringo1 · April 2005

The steering wheel looks too small and not approachable except when you are pulled up very close to it.

Unless Toyota wants your arms to fatigue from being stretched out in front of you, Toyota better make that driver relation to the steering wheel more flexible, from all degrees of the 360.

interceptor07 · April 2005

I like the FJ, but was hoping the white roof would be optional. Can't remember where I read the article (Could have been Autoweek, MT, or C&D), but it listed the production model's features, and it left me with the impression that the white roof would be standard (Because it is a distinct element of the FJ's retro design).
If I find the article I will post it. Still haven't read anything saying it would be optional.
I hope Toyota jumps on the bandwagon and offers XM radio on the FJ.

:shades:

nippononly · April 2005

the white roof it will remind me of a monster overhuge Mini. :-)

I wouldn't mind it - goes well with the blue.

jcutter · April 2005

I'd love to get in towards the front of the line on this.

abraindrainer · April 2005

Keep in mind the original FJ concept interior: scroll to the bottom for interior pictures.

goltgo · April 2005

Of the last batch of six at the bottom of that page, the first one on the left appears to show the rear seats without much legroom in front of them and without much cargo room behind them. Then the second picture down on the right appears to show a decent amount of cargo room behind the second row. Does anyone else see it that way, or is it just me?

canuck3 · April 2005

Gentleman:

I found a picture in a Canadian website about Toyota corporate culture. Nevermind the story. The picture shown in the article is interesting though. It says it's the FTX hybrid pickup but sure looks a lot like the FJ cruiser. What do you think of it. I think the hard metal dash could be dangerous in a crash if you are thrown against it and it has no give at all. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/tomikawa.htm
Toyota guy.

gringo1 · April 2005

Two page article FJ Cruiser.

Sketchy, speculative.

Whether true or not, article states:

final assy will be Japan,
$22k to $27k,

callmedrfill · April 2005

The 2006 Land Cruiser will be on a short leash, coming out before summer in June.

This leads me to believe this will be the last year for the REAL one. When this thing comes out, the REAL on will disappear Fall of '06.

DrFill

Toyota FJ Cruiser

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