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Mercedes-Benz C350 & C280
mac320
Member Posts: 147
I just heard that the new 350 engine will be a power option this Spring. We've really enjoyed our 320 and do not really need to be looking at a new car.
Even so, the new 350 engine is very impressive on paper and seems like it would be a great driver in a C-Class sedan, especially when teamed-up with the new 7-spd. tranny.
I was not completely shocked that the new 350 wasn't among Wards' top 10, but I was surprised to read their comment about it that it was "un-fun," apparently because it was working against a heavy-feeling flywheel.
Maybe the balancing shaft is bigger or heavier or rotates backward faster than in our 320, but I cannot see how the new 350 would not impress me considering the increase in hp and more torque at an even lower rmp compared to our 320.
My guess is that the new 350 may sacrifice a little in potential "fun" to meet the newest EU-4 pollution standards and that is probably why it does not post the numbers that the toyota and nissan 3.5s offer -- or, maybe it is just more conservatively engineered, e.g., lower compression.
I will be interested to test drive a C350 and also, hearing the comments of any SLK350 owners that are happy with their engines and 7 spd. autos. Thanks.
Even so, the new 350 engine is very impressive on paper and seems like it would be a great driver in a C-Class sedan, especially when teamed-up with the new 7-spd. tranny.
I was not completely shocked that the new 350 wasn't among Wards' top 10, but I was surprised to read their comment about it that it was "un-fun," apparently because it was working against a heavy-feeling flywheel.
Maybe the balancing shaft is bigger or heavier or rotates backward faster than in our 320, but I cannot see how the new 350 would not impress me considering the increase in hp and more torque at an even lower rmp compared to our 320.
My guess is that the new 350 may sacrifice a little in potential "fun" to meet the newest EU-4 pollution standards and that is probably why it does not post the numbers that the toyota and nissan 3.5s offer -- or, maybe it is just more conservatively engineered, e.g., lower compression.
I will be interested to test drive a C350 and also, hearing the comments of any SLK350 owners that are happy with their engines and 7 spd. autos. Thanks.
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Comments
Do you have a link to the Wards article?
Also, at the Geneva show in March the replacement for the C240, the C280 will be shown, along with a SLK280. The current rumors have them running 3.0L version of the new V6 with anywhere from 225-231 hp. Of course for 2006 the CLK320 will become the CLK350 also.
New V6 engines for all 6-cylinder model Benzes were long overdue imo.
M
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_wards_best_engines_8/index.htm
You have to wonder what Wards is thinking when they say something so subjective as "unemotional," after they've noted the evocative vocals and thrust of the engine, which seem to me to be the major characteristics that people base subjective feelings on.
I would suspect that MB had neglected to pay-up their corporate subscription -- so Wards could care less -- but then, Wards says they love MB's 3.2 diesel (an engine option that I wish I could enjoy but I live in the enlightened state of Calif.).
I am guessing that with the new 7 spd. tranny, MB must waste a lower gear to make their car jump out of the hole like a frogger if they want to maximize accolades from the typical auto reviewer.
If Wards is unexcited because they miss something like jack rabbit starts off the line, then I can totally discount their subjective feelings in my calculations.
M
And for mac320, the new 350 engine will not be an option, its replacing the C320. Gone will be the C320 from the Benz lineup.
M
M
Now, I was prepared to bite the bullet even though I felt that the car needed more bhp because it has a really nice transmission, the short throw 6spd. Now I am positively giddy to have an extra 43bhp ontap! From everything that I have heard and read, this V6 sings a beautifol song as well.
When i went to price a the C320 Sport, I wanted the leather interior even though the cost was prohibitive. The salesman said that almost no one orders leather in the C Class and I will never get that money back in a trade because the leatherette is very good...what do you guys think? I am a leather man myself.
I have some tough choice to make now, you gotta love how the car market takes shape sometimes. Right now, it is C350 vs. E90 330i vs. S60R. I am kind of leaning towards the Volvo ( I have a S60 T5 right now) and the Benz. I typically stay away from 1st year, clean sheet design cars, but I have love the new BMW and the dealer is a 3 wood away from my house.
Decisions, decisions...
I've been seriously mulling the S4 Avant, and the C55 AMG wagon seems competitive to me. But for the ever increasing size of the A4 line, the thunderbolt grease-slapper end of the range is very appealing, especially de-badged!
Too bad we don't get it here (C55 estate). I mean that literally and figuratively...
;-)
And he's been complaining roundly at the substantial number of apparently stolen "range" balls that have mysteriously ended up in his yard...
:-)
Unlike Acura nobody else forces all those needless (for some buyers) option on their customers. The C-Class ain't cheap, but at 49K the RL ain't no bargain either with the much better performing M35 beating it in just about every way for the same or less money. Neither the C or the RL are big values in their respective classes.
The RL doesn't even perform like a car with 300hp either, cars will less hp are faster. You can bet the C350 will be one of the faster cars in its class, unlike the RL.
M
SO as we were discussing, the C350 is another overpriced MB for those who will pay premium for having a very faded three pointed star hood ornament!!!
To me loads of extra and needless equipment on the RL don't make up for poor brakes, lackluster acceleration and tarted up Accord styling.
The RL is just an overpriced and glorified Accord to me. Other than 300hp, which it doesn't even perform up to, and ShAwD it doesn't offer much more than Acura's own TL.
M
M
Now that you get 43bhp more and also a significant torque boost, it really is going to challenge the leaders in the segment...the leaders being a G35 in terms of value and 330i in terms of outright top notch cars, regardless of price.
Personally, my three choices right now, Volvo, BMW,and Mercedes have to do with cars that I want. I find that in the past when I considered an Acura before, it was more value based, it would always be a compromise because while it is a nice car, I would rationalize getting it because of affordability.
This has been an effective strategy in selling their vehicles, but there are still thousand buying the European brands.
Not to debate the TL here, but I wasn't blown away by the driving when I drove it. To me it drove like a nicer and faster Accord, but I was taken with the interior and obvious value. Styling is my main problem with the TL.
M
For a FWD car, frankly I think it's as good as it gets. With all the "complaints" of torque steer out there, you'd think they were driving a different car! I'm convinced most of them never drove the thing. Extrapolation is my theory here. Honda has made the most that can possibly be made of a FWD platform.
It's comfortable, competent, amply equipped, and just as amply powered, but it's not exactly inspiring. I played in the hills near home a bit with it, and it simply doesn't incite one to acts of imprudence! That's a litmus to me. OTOH, I'll bet your 6-speed helps in that category a bit. Still not the platform I'd want to start with, though.
I'll go with Merc up to a point here. I absolutely agree that it's sumptuous and gutsy and a nice car in all ways. I also agree that the styling is an attempt at chic that lands just this side of conventionally outre (figure that one out and you get a cookie!). It has grown on me substantially in the past year, but I still find it slightly incoherent (like me after 7pm).
I just can't think of much in the Benz line up that really pumps me as direct competiton. This is a bigger car than the C-class unless I'm mistaken, but competes on price. Bigger ain't better in my book.
I take it back. If you told me I had a choice only between a TL and a C320 sport with sunroof and 5-spoke staggered wheels, I'd do the C. Yeah, that'd feel more natural on the roads I like to drive. And look better, too, I think.
But of course, there is a price to pay for materials that are cheaper: it is a cheaper car and a better value than almost any car in its segment. If every one purchased vehicles solely based on value, Acuras would be in every driveway. That is their entire raison d'etre. Undercut the competition, give them 95% of the same expereience and there you have the reason why Acuras are flying out showrooms.
I am not that type of consumer. I want to get a vehicle that makes my mouth water, that makes me check it out a few times walking away from where it is parked. Everytime I walk to my car, I want to feel something. For me, the TL doesn't rate in that category.
I will pay more to feel that. And yes, I will pay 5-10K more if I have to. I don't want to settle with a car full of compromises, I am done with that in this stage of my life.
Yes, yes, YES!
"...For me, the TL doesn't rate in that category..."
Neither for me, but I can understand how it does for others.
"...I will pay more to feel that. And yes, I will pay 5-10K more if I have to. I don't want to settle with a car full of compromises, I am done with that in this stage of my life..."
Brother, you just said a cotton-pickin' mouthful! One of the few advantages to age is the wisdom to know when not to ignore what's important to you!
Good Lord, I sound like my father...
;-)
Then in 1997, I wanted the new A4. Loved it. I wanted it badly, but residuals for Audis back then were horrific and made the car a bad value. So I settled and got a nice 1997 Maxima SE. Great motor, lousy seats but in time I grew to like it, an awesome highway car, but it was not what I wanted.
In 1999, the new Mustang came out. I wanted it bad. No compromises, I just went and got it...and loved every minute of it because it was exactly what I wanted, a glissening silver GT, manual with all the bells and whistles and even picked it up on April 17, 1999, 35 years to the day!
In 2002, I wanted an S60 T5, I simply fell in love with it at first sight. With beautiful 17" alloys, amazing seats and sound system, not to mention powerful 250bhp engine that munched every other car I tested. I got that too. Sure, the torque steer in this car makes the Acura feel like RWD, but it was something I chose to live with and have with other cars, as you can see from my list.
Anyways, sorry for the long post, but one thing I have learned over the years is there is no point saving a few grand if you have too many compromises. If you are honest with yourself, you will always regret it.
Interestingly, of my three serious considerations last time out, I ended up in the least expensive, but for all the right reasons, and none of them economic. For the sake of expediency, however, I took delivery from existing stock, and settled for exterior and interior colors that I didn't really want. Had I spent a few more dollars and waited a few weeks, I would have been even more satisfied with my decision, and frankly would have enjoyed the past couple of years that much more.
I won't make that mistake next time out.
Do you think an entry-level CLK280 or E280 would make it here, since they would now have more power than the "320" versions they replace?
M
The E interests me not at all personally. Never has really; it's a bigger and a scad less agile a car than I would drive day to day, and not quite pretty or plush enough for a social calendar car, IMO. But I'd be willing to bet there are more than a few C owners (or potential ones) that might make the jump for more car at basically an upper C price (if I've got that right).
But I admit, I'm out of my comfort zone speculating in any detail on Benz product. More gut reaction here.
It may not be essential at this particular time, but pricing and segments will be areas of concern down the road, particularly if more successes round out the Chrysler experience.
Bodes well for marque-snobs like our pal Merc! ;-) Can't swim too far downstream without messing with their suddenly lucrative investment!
:-(
A CLK280 would probably see for about 39K, I'm guessing. I think it would sell, but a manual nope because that would put in direct competition with much more powerful/sporty coupes in the price range, namely the G35 Coupe.
M
A CLK280 with a 6-speed is a pipe dream, but it would be a way to exploit that power. A pillar-less true coupe with that tranny, at that price point would be sweet
M
Looks like MB may finally have the C350 right...they are also boasting a 12% mpg increase along with increased power with the 3.5L V6.
Everywhere that I have read about this engine is it sounds amazing. Well on Top Gear I had a chance to hear the SLK and it was a glorious sound indeed. Personally, that is what makes me enjoy my cars, a great exhaust makes you wnat to turn the radio off!
Ah the problem children, E, ML, C and S all have issues according to the surveys, especally the ML and E-Class. While the ML is obvious, I'm really curious to know what the big problem is with the current E-Class. I assume you work for a dealership in some capacity? What issues have you seen with the 2003+ E-Class? I know the 2003 models have nav problems, but for 2004 and certain for 2005 they should have gotten a handle on the E, because it is probably Mercedes most important sedan from a volume and attention stand point.
M
Part of the problem mercedes is up against is that for them to build a car out of the materials they used in, say, a 1990 420SEL, with today's supplier costs, the car would be priced out of even the highline market. People want more fuel mileage, cheaper insurance, quicker repairs, and more features, etc. without the price going up. What that means is more plastic, and lowest- bidder suppliers. That being said, they still use very costly techniques and materials in the building of their car, the only other manufacturer that uses a monocoque chassis is Porche, and their prices reflect that as well. Personally, I would like to see them focus less on volumn, and spend whatever they have to,and charge whatever they have to, to be as bulletproof as a toyota, but continue to dust them on driveability.
I'm glad to hear that so far the SLK and CLS have been good, but the real test will be this time next year when CR and JDP does their thing.
M
The brother of one of my service advisors works at a lexus dealer, and says he's got all the warranty work he can keep up with.
schadenfreud :-)
1- I'd like a capable engine but don't usually push it that hard. Should I wait for the 350 or go with the 320? Also is the difference between the 240 and 320 worth the 5g price difference?
2- How much more is the 350 going to cost, than the current 320? Should I wait?
3- I've noticed very few C owners have leather upholstery. Should I also go with the leather inserts?
4- Finally, I need some info on options and which ones are worth it. I was going to go with the 6 disc changer, Xenons, Sunroof package, Navigation system. Any I should add/drop?
Thanks for your replies.
-Like any aspect of retail, the new improved thing will cost more, and the old thing will be there at a better price, but with fewer choices. The last of the 240's and 320's have pretty much been built, so what's out there is it. The good news is benz is sure to put extra incentives on the outgoing cars, so a deal can be had, you just might have to settle on colors and/or equipment.
-The only options that translate into any genuine resale value are sunroofs, cd changers, and auto transmissions. So buy the smallest engine and trim level you can live with. Full leather, xenons, and nav mean nothing to the used car buyer, they just want the cheapest car they can find, and they won't pay much more for things like that. Those options may give you a better experience driving the car, but are all but lost in trade.
-The engine upgrades will cost more. The E-class jumped about $1500 when it went to 350 size engine, so I would think at least $1k will be the premium on the c-class cars.
-the two biggest adjustments you will see in the value of your car is when it goes out of warranty(4 years/50,000 miles), and when you cross the 100k mile mark.
BTW I drive one also (C230), and they are fantastic cars, haven't had any trouble out of it. Hope I could help...