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Comments
Yeah, I was trying to compensate for my lack of off road ability, payload capacity and ride comfort. I'll bet you have a fuctionless hood scoop on your Taco. Now that's compensating for something, or is that just style over substance.
There seems to be a very polite group of posters who know that this Ridgeline simply is not a truck in 4WD or towing capabilities, and there are posters who don't really know that world, but like to talk like the Ridgeline will perform under those demands.
Anyone like 6spd poster, for example, who says 4 Lo is for downhill only purposes obviously has not lived or driven in circumstances that require 4 Lo more often than a driver would like to need to resort to it.
I don't know, maybe I'm cynical about know-it-alls who don't have the experience but read a lot.
Gringo1
These two apparently excellent trucks have mildly different functions. Anybody who can't recognize that fairly obvious fact isn't going to be a source of decent insight.
I think you hit the nail on the head. There are some posters that are level headed that you can trust what they are saying, then there are others that you just have to chuckle at. I even find myself disagreing with some of the things that the Edmunds writers have to say about some cars/trucks. However, I find the Edmunds writers to be less biased than most other e-mags.
That brings me to the question why this topic even exists. The Ridgeline and Tacoma are trucks, but appear to be targeted to two different camps. This in itself would appear to be sufficient to keep a constant state of conflict going on this board. I just read the First-drive about the Ridgeline and did not get surprised by any of it. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=105241?tid=edmunds.h..insi- deline.promo.2g.*#19 The Ridgeline excelled at a very nice on-road ride, but could not handle the off-road part of the course. Once again no surprises here. Why can't we just take each car/truck for what they are and just leave it at that?
That's not what they said exactly. They were referring only to the steep hill on the off road part. It should also be noted that they felt the stock tires weren't off road tires and didn't help. I must add that I've had it in deep dry sand where the undercarriage was scraping the surface and VTM-4 lock was not even required. I didn't even have to turn off VSC. My experience off road has been very good, and wouldn't want to subject any production vehicle to more than my Ridgeline was subjected to. That extra inch of clearence helps with the Taco. I've also read posts where the Taco and Ridgeline were compared on steep muddy ascents and drivers felt the Ridgleine performed better. That being said if I were looking for extensive off roading capabilities, the Ridgeline wouldn't be my first choice, but it's very capable for my BLM off road requirements.
I fully agree with you that those stock Ridgeline tires are not for off roading. They almost look like the all season and winter Nokian tires I put on my Pilot.Those tires are amazing, no more hydroplaning, and no more sliding on slush and even better handling on ice.No more switching tires too when the weather changes.
The fine thread pattern of the stock Michelin LTX is meant to improve handling in wet, slushy, dry pavement and last but not the least, offroading. I bet offroading prowess of the Ridgeline would improve if they stick those offroad tires from Jeep Wrangler. :shades:
Yes and no. The design is such to allow the body and cab to flex independently. Just about every pick-up is built the same way. However, this is not because they desire that flexibility. It's because they cannot prevent it (without extraordinary measures). If they had a chassis that flexed and a body which did not, the body would end up a pretzel.
There's also an advantage in being able to swap out the bed for a dumper, fenced platform, or some other type of cargo hold.
Because the unibody and full frame on the Honda are so well integrated, there is less flex and less need for that gap. There are drawbacks, of course. In order to get the unibody/frame combo strong enough, the designers had to buttress the chassis. That's what those big honkin' C-pillars are for. And those are also the reason why we'll probably never see a long bed version of the Ridgeline.
The other main ones are tow capacity (lack of hard attachment points) & what happens when you push the truck past its limits. I know few people who haven't at some point or another overloaded their trucks, either towing or payload. Manufacturers expect that, and all vehicles have some dummy factor built in. Put too much in the bed of a body-on-frame & you'll wear out your bearings faster. Get real stupid & you may break a leaf spring or other suspension hardware. What you won't normally do bend the frame or any other sort of major damage. Push a unibody past its limits & you may be visiting someone with a frame puller.
Which is why I said earlier that a unibody isn't a hard positive. It depends on how you use the truck. I'm not sure why that drew such fire.
The Ridgeline ladder frame and unibody combination has 20 times more torisional rigidity and 2.5 times more bending rigidity than any other truck. What you describe will never happen to this truck. This is basic info that everybody should know if your talking about this truck. It's in almost every review or talking point about the Ridgeline. Your making alot assumptions about what you think this truck is with out even bothering to read anything, and I do mean anything about it.
Unibody integrated with a ladder frame is a hard positive no matter how you slice it. There is no disadvantage, period. Please read something.
You're drawing fire because you're still not getting it.
The Ridgeline is a ladder frame-base truck. It just has a unibody cabin, bed, and engine compartment instead of separate pieces on top of a frame. It is a frame that has been reinforced with a unibody, not replaced by a unibody. This is the same kind of thing used for the Land Rover LR3 and the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
In short, it does have "hard attachment points".
I drove the Ridgeline and it drove like my Pilot but a tad stiffer. It was a much better ride than the crew cab v6 TRD Sport LB Taco I purchased ten minutes later. I like many of the features of the Ridgeline but the Taco drove like a truck - Leafsprings, drum brakes, separate bed w/ associated flex, etc. A real man know a station wagon when he sees it.
There are also a lot of details that Honda, perhaps purposely, left out, like a mileage computer, visor extenders, day running lights, the infamous vanity mirror, and some other things that they will, most likely, add in future years' models, in addition to the annual rise in price that usually occurs with all vehicles. So there is room to improve, which I think is built-in.
There are always going to be improvements on vehicles, one would hope. One could also keep waiting for next year's model to come out...but that seems to be a perpetual losing proposition to me.
Well, I'll tell ya. Keep in mind I was very stoked to go buy my 05 Taco Sport.This was a big decision. I can only think of a better choice if I needed to tow 10,000 lbs. For me it came down to the 05 Taco and the Ridgeline. This is my first Honda purchase. #1 in consideration was brand reputation, reliability, and resale value, and for me that was Toyota and Honda. I've owned a Toyota truck and car for fourteen years with not one problem between them, so Toyota really had brand loyalty from me, but the more in depth research I did about how Honda engineers approached this vehicle. It convinced me this was very different than a chopped up pilot that I initially thought it was. Honda truly brought some new ideas and improvements to the pickup table and they needed too with their first entry into this market. I was impressed with their Unibody integration with a ladder truck frame giving it 20 times more torisional stability and 2.5 time more bending rigidity. combine this with a beefy 4 wheel independent suspension, and you've got truck toughness with a ride of a nice car. This really does give the vehicle a more overall solid feel. This is also the best automatic transmission I've driven. Acceleration is excellent.
Other features that pushed it over the top:
-really like the VTM-4 AWD system instead of part time 4x4. It also has VSC that can be turned off and VTM-4 lock that locks the rear and front diffs
-I can haul 4x8 building material, and it will lay flat in the bed of this mid size truck. There's no wheel wells taking up valuable space. No other midsize can do this. (I really don't want to be driving some huge full size truck just to do this.)
-Biggest cab in class. It's pretty roomy inside. Love the flip up backseat allowing for alot of storage in back of the cab. lots of storage space through out. The center console is the best laid out storage space I've seen in a center console.
-Inbed trunk and 2 way opening tailgate (genius) lights in bed light the cargo area when you open the gate. (not available on Taco-NAOT)
-dual climate control (saved my marriage )
-leather interior, I really feel like I'm in a nice sedan (very classy, and not available on Taco)
-moon roof (NAOT)
-power rear window (NAOT)
-heated mirrors (NAOT)
-power driver's seat (NAOT)
We love this truck. It does everything well for us. It's a nice luxury touring car. It hauls cargo when I need to, and I love it off road. The most amazing thing: The styling has grown on me. I love the way this truck looks or maybey it's function and utility is driving the beauty.
kcram - Pickups Host
Think about what you're claiming. You're saying the Ridgeline is so over-engineered that it has a unibody (that's good enough for the Odyssey) AND a ladder frame that would be good enough for any other truck. Yet with all that stiffness it still needs those awful c pillars, can only carry 150 lbs more than the cro-magnon Tacoma, and can tow 1500 lbs LESS. Does that make any sense to you?
The reality is that it has some ladder elements & some frame elements. It's a compromise vehicle, and probably a dang good one if they've figured out automatic transmissions by now (I have an Odyssey that they had to extend the warranty on). And the compromise might be perfect for some people. For others that need more of a traditional pickup, it might not be. That simple fact really shouldn't be cause for Ridgeline owners to get defensive.
It was a silver with black leather. I don't care much for a leather interior in a truck. To me, my truck must be a work truck, not a luxury vehicle (my SUV is a Mercedes, it should have leather). So I'll not comment on that.
I checked out the bed. It was a small bed. My Taco is a shortbed, so it's not big by any standard, but at least I can haul a cubic yard of dirt in it to fill my yard. I don't think the Honda is up to this task. It seems like it can't haul anything larger that a barbecue grill or a few flower pots. Even if it has the space, I don't think you'll want to make the Honda's bed dirty because I feel like you have to protect it like it is an interior part.
As for the look, it reminds me of a lifted 4 door El Camino or a 4 door Isuzu Amigo without the back seat. If I want a truck, I'd get the one with the bed that's not so integrated with the cab. But that's just my definition of a truck.
BTW, my 05 4 door Taco with 2WD and side airbags was priced at $26K MSRP with everything I need (don't need leather) in a work truck. It hauls my family of 4 (comfortably) most of the time, but I feel much better that it can be a serious work horse hauling anything else. The Honda is probably close to $30K. I don't think and don't want to spend $30K on a truck whether it be Chevy or Ford or Toyota or Honda. That's what I'd spend on a SUV.
Actually, the Ridgeline was a nice truck but priced $4k over MSRP at the dealer I visited. As a second vehicle, the Taco met my needs at a better price point.
Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.
Ridgeline frame
Ridgeline unibody & frame integration (schematic)
Ridgeline unibody & Frame integration (photo)
The Ridgeline's frame includes 7 additional rails not used in the Pilot or MDX. The frame rails in the Ridgeline are fully boxed and the channels are 70% deeper than those in the others.
The Odysey does not use fully boxed rails, instead it makes use of a "four ring" unibody design.
Ody photo
You addressed none of the rest of my post, not surprisingly. If it has all the strength of a traditional ladder frame, PLUS all the strength of a unibody, why aren't the capacities radically different? Why the towing limitations? Does Honda reccomend that you NOT use a load leveling hitch? I'd heard that but haven't seen an owner's manual, so that's an honest question.
This is a compromise vehicle. That's not a bad thing, nor is it an insult. Clearly I'll have to get objective info on the Ridgeline elsewhere. Enjoy your car.
Varmint, thanks the for reply regarding body/chassis flex. I always appreciate it when someone takes the time to answer the ignorant.
I hope to have a few more years before making a decision, but I don't know whether new or used will be preferable when the time comes. I'd rather have an idea about these models and, especially, potential problems now than buy an '05/'06 something in 3 years and have to backtrack.
You bring up a good point about capacities, loading vs overloading (I think you mentioned this in an earlier post), etc., but so many other factors other than the body/frame construction come into play here. Suspension, GVW, transmission, brakes, blah blah blah...
A platform is nothing more than a set of dimensions, the number of stops on a production line, and the types of jigs which can be used to assemble the parts. Two vehicles may be built using the same kinds of hardware, in the same order, using absolutely none of the same parts.
I could be wrong, but it appears you are using the term "platform" with the same meaning that might have applied 30 years ago. Using the same platform does not mean using the same body.
Now, the Ridgeline does use some of the same "DNA" as the other vehicles build in the same production facilities. The most obvious example would be the transversely-mounted J series V6 engine. The Ody, MDX, Pilot, and Ridgeline all have the same drivetrain, each with a different state of tune. Each one uses similar suspension designs. They all have Mac Struts up front and IRS at the rear. Very few of the parts are the same, but they are the same "types" of suspension. The MDX, Pilot, and Ridgeline also share the VTM-4 electronic 4WD system, although certain parts have been beefed up for use in the Ridgeline.
But it pretty much ends there. 90% of the frame under the Ridgeline is made from different parts than the Pilot or MDX.
"You addressed none of the rest of my post, not surprisingly."
I'm trying to post only what I know.
Why are the towing limitations different than some of the traditional trucks? Probably because of the independent rear suspension. But that's a guess on my part.
Please allow me to return the question. Why is the body-on-frame Sport Trac capable of towing only 80lbs more than the Ridgeline with only a driver on board? Why is the body-on-frame Colorado capable of towing 1,000 lbs less than the Ridgeline? Why can none of the body-on-frame match the Ridgeline's 1,550 lbs of payload?
Why no load leveling hitch? No idea. If you really want to press the issue, I could guess at that, too.
And, finally, my parting advice for you would be this... If you want information couched in more "objective" terms, try asking for the information instead of introducing yourself to the thread with abrasive posts regarding the vehicle in question.
The A pillar is the pillar up in front of the driver. It goes from the dash to the roof. The windshield spans between the two A pillars.
The B pillar is the one directly behind the driver, between the front and rear doors. Your front seat belts are probably fixed to the B pillar.
The C pillar is the support that ends the cabin on any truck, sedan or coupe. The Ridgeline has a rather large C pillar because the unibody extends from the nose to the tail. Having that extra large C pillar adds additional rigidity to the body structure. You'll notice the same thing on the Avalanche.
For what it's worth, SUVs, wagons, and vans will also have a D pillar as the roof line extends all the way to the rear of the vehicle.
I think that, as with any truck, if you are planning to tow towards the upper rated limit, especially on a regular basis, a 5th wheel trailer is far preferable to a bumper-level hitch. I don't think the Ridgeline would have any trouble hitching to or pulling a 5th wheel, but due to the gate design, the driver would certainly need to be conscientious about its presence and lower/raise as necessary; unless you can remove it and put on a drop-center gate (waste of time/money).
now for the tacoma.. looks gets a 8 performance a 9( fastest midsize truck) practicality gets a 6 (element beet it on somthing) comfort gets a 8.5( car and driver says it rides like a camry and has the most comfy seets even though they rnt leather. rather have a camrys ride then a pilot....) 31.5/50
ive drove both my dad owns a ridgeline i own a taco... my dads thinkin he screwed up on this one....
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Amen.I own a Frontier but head over heels over the Ridgeline, hands down the Ridge is the best truck.Heres a not so bias ranking of the Ridge, Taco. and Frontier from a Frontier owner.
1. Ridge
2. Taco.
3. Frontier.
For anyone interested, allow me to attempt an honest comparison. I’ll be in the market for a new “work truck” when I return home from my current overseas tour with the military this fall. I began by reading extensively about the Taco, but have heard some good things about the Frontier and Ridgeline. I’ll put this in a few separate posts to clarify what is fact and what’s my opinion/assessment. Here are my two bits.
So there’s no confusion, here’s my background. The last truck I owned was a 1996 Mazda B4000 (Ford Ranger clone). Transmission died at 120,000 miles in 2001, but I really did enjoy the truck. Yes, I drive my trucks really hard. Those 120k included 60/30/10 percent Highway/City/Off-road miles and about 30 percent of all those included a light trailer. Some of my off-roading is serious boulders, mountains mud and snow, but most was just open fields or logging track mountain roads. I just bought my wife a 2005 Honda Pilot EX-L/RES about a month ago. About 1000 miles so far and we love it.
There are compromises, benefits, advantages and disadvantages for every vehicle. I’ve been seeing plenty of Honda and Toyota fans claiming with almost religious zeal that their truck is absolutely perfect and without equal on any comparison, but it’s simply not true. Manufacturers choose which comparisons to make, and often compare their best asset to their worst competitor’s. This makes for very uneven/unfair comparisons.
Quoting from Edmonds.com “Honda's engineers boast that the Ridgeline has 20 times the torsional rigidity and over twice the resistance to bending compared to the top-selling midsize pickup.” I saw someone mistake this to say that the Honda had 20 times the stifness and 2.5 times the strength of any truck. Honda was compairing themselves to the “top-selling midsize pickup”, that’s a Ford Ranger. I think we can all agree that Honda has out-engineered the Ranger. I hope so, the Ford was engineered in the 70’s. No one is making any simlar claims between the Honda, Nissan or Toyota. Let’s try to be fair when making comparisons
Before I start, let me say that I think they are all nice trucks and are well ahead of the rest of the competition (Ranger, Dakota, Colorado, Sonoma). I’m really happy to see some innovation this year. The competition should push them all to higher standards. They are appealing to different markets and have different intended uses. I’m sure all will sell well. Happy shopping to all.
The Ridge, Taco and Fronty all come with V-6’s and 5 speed automatics. Honda uses a 3.5L while Toyota and Nissan use a 4.0L. The Ridge has 10 HP more than the Taco, but 10 less than the Fronty. The Taco is the lightest of the three though, by more than 400 lbs. This gives a Taco the advantage in lbs/hp at 16.5, basically tying the Fronty at 16.7 lbs/hp. Both beat the Ridge at 17.6 lbs/hp.
I guess it’s too much to ask to get a 6-speed manual transmission in any sort of top-of-the-line 4x4 configuration though. 6-speed are available on the Nissan and Toyota for some lower trim models. No luck on the Honda.
Towing:
In terms of torque the Taco and Fronty beat the Ridge soundly at 284, 282 and 252 ft lbs respectively. This along with the hp, gives Nissan and Toyota an advantage in towing weight and acceleration. The Toy’s towing capacity leads at 6500lbs, the Nissan is 2nd at 6100lbs and the Honda is 3rd at 5000lbs.
Acceleration:
I don’t have the 0-60 or ¼ mile times on hand, but have seen that that the Honda is the slowest. The Toyota and Nissan crowds go back and forth over which truck won which race on which day. Different web sites claim different numbers on the Toy or Nissan. I haven’t seen anyone claim the Honda is close though (About 1 sec slower at 0-60)
Payload:
Conversely, the payload capacity of the Honda wins out at 1554lbs vs 1405lbs on the Toy and 1365lbs on the Fronty. I’m assuming this comes more from the bed and frame construction rather than power-train limitations, but I’m not really sure. If anyone does know why, feel free to chime in.
Options:
You can get both the Honda and Nissan with all the bells and whistles. For some reason Toyota failed to include options for heated leather seats, sunroof or rear defroster.
There are some interesting new amenities out there. Honda included an automatic windshield wiper de-icer and a truck bed trunk. Option packages on the Taco can be difficult to configure. Selecting option A or B may limit your ability to choose option X, Y or Z.
Safety:
Kudos to Honda for making all their safety features standard. Everyone has ABS and the new front airbags, but the Honda comes with standard side and head airbags, traction control and electronic stability control. Honda also comes with AWD and 4 wheel disc brakes. Honda does not have an option for daytime running lights or fog lights however.
Toyota seems to have made the cutting edge safety features an afterthought. Head airbags are optional, side airbags are not available. Traction and electronic stability control are optional, but limit your 4x4 or towing options. Toyota only comes with rear drum breaks instead of discs. Fog lights and daytime running lights are options.
Nissan splits the difference between them. Head and side airbags are optional along with traction and stability control. 4 wheel disc breaks are standard. Fog lights and daytime running lights are optional. At least selecting safety options don’t limit your other options.
Off-Road:
Ground clearance for the Nissan is a good 10.1 in, an acceptable 9.4 in for the Toyota and an average 8.2 in for the Honda.
Turning diameters in the Toyota are 40.7 ft, 42.6 ft for the Honda and 43.3 ft for the Nissan.
Take-off, departure angles: I can’t find these on-line, but I know someone posted them earlier. The Tocoma was in the high 30-something degree range I recall, the Frontier was in the low 30-somthings and the Ridgeline was in the low 20’s. If someone can locate the numbers, please let me know and post the link.
The Toyota and Nissan offer a low range and 4WD, not available on the Honda. Honda uses an AWD system with locking differential rear.
Toyota and Nissan have options for stiffer off-road suspensions (TRD or NISMO packages) and common off-road features like skid plates. A front skid plate is standard on the Honda.
Bed types:
Both the Ridgeline and Toyota used a composite bed, Nissan has a traditional steel bed, but it comes with a factory installed spray-on liner. The angled bed sides on the Honda will likely prevent you from installing a bed topper or cover. But the Honda does include a trunk space built into the bed. They all offer different methods for tie downs and bracing loads. Honda does have a wider bed, allowing you to fit 4ft wide payloads between the sides, you’d have to angle the load in the Nissan or Toyota. Honda also has dual hinges on the tailgate allowing it to fold down or swing out.
Credit to Honda for getting more output from a smaller engine, but it isn’t quite as stong a motor as the Toy or Nissan. You’d notice the difference in towing or pure acceleration, but that’s not a major consideration for most. Any of these V-6’s compare well to most domestic V-8’s.
Unless you’re towing a boat or horse trailer that’s near 5000lb range, towing weight limitations are minor. Not to may truck owners tow anything at all. All of them will easily handle the occasional trip towing a jet-ski or two, snowmobile, 4 wheeler, motorcycle, utility trailer, etc. None are meant to haul large boats or horse trailers.
The Taco and Fronty will get these trailers up to highway speeds or over hills faster though due to their higher power and torque ratios. I’d actually be a little afraid pulling a boat up the loading ramp with Honda. The lack of low range and low RPM torque would put it at a disadvantage. Just be careful.
I’ve heard the argument that my truck comes with option X standard and it’s only an option your truck. I generally don’t see that as an advantage. If it’s optional, at least I have the option to pay for it or not. If it’s standard on your truck, you’re stuck paying for it whether you wanted it or not. That said there are some options not available in any configuration on the Taco. Toyota also does not allow you to combine the safety options with their 4x4 or towing packages. This in an advantage for Nissan and Honda.
The off-roading capabilities of the Taco and Fronty are nearly equal. (Similar weight/hp, better take-off angles on the Toy, more clearance on the Nissan) The Ridge isn’t meant for traditional off-roading, but will handle the occasional dirt or snow packed road well. Just don’t attempt to go rock climbing. Arguably, AWD is preferable for hitting the occasional slippery spot in the road.
I won’t get into the “my truck looks better than yours” debate, that’s totally subjective. Although I realize this may be a major consideration for most, it’s your call.
In terms of day-day driving and comfort, you’ll have to compare for yourself. These ratings are very subjective. The same can be said for front and back seat comfort. They all have similar interior dimensions. It’s not very useful to say this truck is ½ inch taller in the front, or wider in back seat. One may have more leg room up front, but less in the back. Don’t accept someone else’s assessment here, try it for yourself. Just because the seat doesn’t have a power 8 way adjustment doesn’t mean it’s less comfortable than one that does.
For price consideration, they are all pretty similar when you max out all the options. If you are within about $5K its going to come down to which stealer you work with. Every time I price them out online I end up between $30K and $33K. Whoever is running a rebate the week I buy or will cut the best deal may get my business.
I’ve looked any many trucks and options. I did have to rule out the Honda for my needs. I don’t think it would hold up to the off-road work I do, and I didn’t see a way to attach a bed cover to hide all the junk I leave in the bed. The trunk and tailgate were nice though. For me it’s come down to the Frontier vs. Tacoma. The deal breaker might be that the Toy’s limitations on combining safety options with off-roading and towing options will push me toward the Frontier. Not totally decided yet. I never do any heavy towing so that’s not a problem for me.
Don’t get me wrong, I think there are some definite advantages for the Ridgeline. If my wife was in the market for a truck, the ridgeline would be a good option for her. It would probably be the safest for her and I wouldn’t have to worry if she left in 4WD for the last trip downtown. I wouldn’t have to worry about if she thought to put it in 4WD when the roads were snow packed either. AWD does have its advantages. Don’t mistake me, I’m not saying the Ridgeline isn’t a “manly” truck or that women can’t use 4WD. But my wife doesn’t like a stick, much less a 2nd or 3rd control for 4WD or low range.
Hope this helps someone decide. Let the flaming began as I’m sure I’ve deeply offended someone by suggesting that their truck isn’t perfect for everything. I’ve pulled my numbers from each company’s websites if someone wants to look it up themselves. Happy trucking to all.
I would like someone to discuss the benefits and limitations of having a 4 wheel independent suspension instead of a solid rear axle.
I remember being told that a solid axle was better for 4-wheeling and towing, but I don't remember why.
I do know that the independent suspension makes for a more comfortable ride. Driving around the desert in my Humvee will prove that. (I can't speak to the H2 or H3, but the original military Humvee has 4 wheel independent suspension and it is an excellent off-road vehicle and relatively comfortable going over bumps.)
I do very little off-roading, but I'm almost positive an independent suspension does a better job of keeping the wheels planted. Most Baja-style racers have independent suspensions, and you already mentioned the Humvee.
As an aside, if your Humvee was comfortable, you must have had plenty of armor mounted to it. When those things are lightly loaded they're pretty rough.
Lets start with safety; I have heard that VTM-4 combined with VSC makes the vehicle have better handling on the road. Wrong, especially if the torque bias is towards the front on the ridge. Full-time 4wd has NO effect on steering or stopping emergencies and no effect on understeer or oversteer conditions. In fact Full time 4wd might worsen the situation at higher speeds. The Tacoma and Ridge both have VSC and despite what was said previously you can get VSC on any model (even 4x4's) on a Tacoma. The only advantage VTM-4 would have is one wet roads driving at slow speeds (<40) and you hit a mud puddle and need some extra traction to keep you moving normally without a decrease in speed (i.e. gutters dumping water into an intersection).
A side note from the comparison above, it mentioned that the frontier had a better ground clearance than the tacoma. Minimum ground clearance numbers are measured from the lowest part of the suspension, in this case the rear differential. The reason tacoma has a smaller numbers is because of its beefier differential. In actuality the tacomas frame sits significantly (it is very noticeable if you try to stick your head under both) high than either ridge or frontier. True ground clearance number should be measured from the lowest part of the frame in which case the frontier would sit at about 11" and the tacoma would be above 13".
Independent suspension hinders off-road ability. The most common reason is IFS' lack of articulation. Also solid axles don't have CV joint problems from the wheel moving differently in relation to the axle. If you don't have knowledge about suspension types there are several enthusiast sites that have full-length articles about the difference and go more in-depth than I can in this blurb. However as you said independent suspension is more comfortable. FYI the Hummer has had numerous problems in the field because of it suspension and hard to fix parts.
On the same topic the tacoma has a top-notch suspension and ride. With progressive rate coil springs and high-pressure gas shocks that are usually found only aftermarket, the ride is comfortable and without harsh vibrations that can cause problems down the road.
IRS is better for on-road performance and will like to a better job of soaking up bumps, keeping the chassis planted, and allowing the vehicle to corner properly.
A live axle is the cheapest way to support a whole lotta weight. I'm sure someone could design a heavy duty IRS design (see Hummer), but it's not easy, and likely not cheap. For offroading, a live axle design will help when the terrain gets extreme. As a wheel is forced up over a rock on one side, the other side of the axle is pushed down, giving it greater traction. Live axle will often have greater articulation, as well.
For towing a whole lotta weight, live axle will probably better. It can handle the weight.
For towing something more modest (between 4,000 - 7,000 lbs) IRS may be better. IRS can handle that much. So, IRS has an advantage because of its greater ability to steer that weight.
Gotta go...
Frontier: 31.5 / 22.6 / 20.6
Tacoma: 35 / 26 / 21
Ridgeline: 24.5 / 22.0 / 21
Trailer hitches are NOT included in those angles.
I just wanted to let you know that Honda does have a Tonneau cover for the bed, and 4 inches more leg room in the back seat than the Tacoma IS a big difference when you're knockin knees against the front seat. Along with the extra width of the interior, the Ridge feels much bigger than the Tacoma doublecab. I loved the Tacoma when I drove it a few months ago, and love my Ridgeline now.
One thing that steered me away from the Tacoma was that I read about a lot of mechanical problems/complaints on the brand new '05 and really didn't want to put up with that. I also started considering the Tundra, but also read about brake problems. I did take a gamble with the new model Honda, and it is paying off as far as I can tell. (I've had Honda's and Toyota's forever!)
Anyway, come home soon. (And, ps. I also like the Frontier and have heard a lot of good things about it. My neighbor has one and loves it.)
Your safety remark doesn't make sense. You state that AWD isn't safer for on-road driving, then say, "In fact Full time 4wd might worsen the situation at higher speeds." You seem to be contradicting yourself. I'm of the opinion that AWD is safer for the unexpected slippery road conditions. Unless you are already in 4WD you won't have that benefit. Of course if you are already in 4WD in poor driving conditions, that would be similar to AWD. 4WD requires more knowledge and appropriate use from the driver. AWD is somewhat dummy proof.
I never said that VSC wasn't available on every model of Taco, only that it was only available with limited option packages. It is possible to select VSC with a 4x4 6-speed manual model. You cannot combine VSC with SR5 package #8 or either of the TRD packages however. The towing options are built into SR5 package #8 or TRD Off-Road package #2. That means no towing options or off-road packages are availabe in combination with VSC. Please prove me wrong. I'd love to be able to get it all. Here's the website I'm using that's telling me I can't do it.
http://configurator.setbuyatoyota.com/ie4_page.asp?host=www.toyozone.com&dealer_code=10113- &carname=tacomadouble
happy trucking
Having driving many cars with full time and part time 4wd, full time beats anything in snow.
The features that won me over on the Honda:
Full time 4wd
built in nav system with rear camera (option)
trunk
large back seats that fold UP for a big flat floor for the dogs
highway and city ride
heated mirrors, window, seats, dual climate control with air filter
Built in XM
Width of bed
Short (relative) length of truck
Tire pressure monitor
Some things I don't like:
ground clearance
lack of skid plates
off road ability (lack of) - 4wd system, no 4 low, suspension articulation
Wide truck can be difficult to park (trade off for wide bed)
As for towing, I have towed a 3000lb trailer and you don't even feel the trailer when towing, of course the acceleration is slower. I have also towed with the last generation Taco (pre 05) with TRD and the Taco would bounce all over when towing the same trailer. I have no information on towing with the new Taco.
I wouldn't tow a 5000lb trailer with any mid size truck. It's never a good idea to push the max trailer weight. If you want to tow a 5000lb trailer get a full size truck.
This is my first truck with VSC and it's nothing short of amazing. I tried to whip out the rear end on a fresh snow and as soon as the tail would start to come around the system would activate and bring everything back in line. If you buy any truck or car, only consider ones with VSC (no matter what brand)
This is what the ridgeline can handle competently. If your doing more than this, don't buy it.
Can't wait to try these 14 performance criteria out. From autoworld.com:
Honda engineers concluded that a robust medium-duty off-road capability was most consistent with the needs of the customer and the philosophy behind a next generation of truck that offers a smarter balance of capabilities with a higher level of comfort, convenience and real-world versatility. Medium-duty capability readily supports trips to remote trailheads for motorcycle, ATV and mountain bike riding, and camping, as well as excellent all-weather capabilities. Also, anybody who has ever driven down a "washboard" dirt road in a body-on-frame truck can appreciate the refinement afforded by the Ridgeline's unibody structure, which more effectively minimizes the severe vibrations that can occur. To define exactly what constitutes medium-duty off-road capability, the Ridgeline engineering team selected 14 key performance criteria based on observations of typical off-road adventurers. They then utilized special test courses at their R&D facilities in North America to assure that the Ridgeline delivers all the intended capabilities with impeccable reliability and durability along with real world verification.
The list of test courses includes:
28-degree dirt hill
Sand hill
Water pit
Rock roads
Embedded log course
Step-up, step-down
Sand drag strip
Gully course
Ground contact course
Washboard road
Frame twister
Power hop hill (23-degree slope with rippled surface)
Gravel road
Startable grade
The results speak for themselves - the Ridgeline has 8.2 inches of ground clearance, a 25-degree approach angle, a 22-degree departure angle, and a 21-degree breakover angle for negotiating rough terrain. It can claw up a 28-degree (53-percent) dirt slope from a dead stop. It can tow a 5,000-pound boat up the steepest of boat ramps.