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The Future Of The Manual Transmission
callmedrfill
Member Posts: 729
Got a problem!
Yup, major beef here! HUGE Beef!
Did I miss a meeting with the transmissions, huh?
You can get every trandmission except MANUAL transmissions!
They gots Auto, Autostick, SMG, Manumatic, F1.
But getting a REAL transmission seems like buying a Bee Gees album.
The PT Cruiser for 2005 had a nice price cut. Now you can get the car for a base sticker price of under $14000, with manual transmission! Great!
Only one thing. You can only get two options, and YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to get A/C (Automatic tranny required)
What the $%&#!!
Now SOME manufacturers will tell you people don't want manuals any more.
Might these be the same ones pairing manuals with the weakest engines, the least equipment, the poorest colors, or the fewest choices of trim?
Let's face it, manufacturers are MANIPULATING the public into NOT getting the manual.
Everyone will point to how low the percentage of manual drivers there are for new cars, but if you put the manuals with better equipped, more powerful cars, they will sell very well!
Manuals are cheaper to buy, cheaper to repair, have fewer problems, require less maintainance, perform better (cars are faster, though the gap is shrinking), and are more efficient!
In other words, it is THE BEST tranny you can buy!
But will you?
Anyone else have a bone to pick with the PLANNED OBSOLESENCE of the "Stick"?
Yup, major beef here! HUGE Beef!
Did I miss a meeting with the transmissions, huh?
You can get every trandmission except MANUAL transmissions!
They gots Auto, Autostick, SMG, Manumatic, F1.
But getting a REAL transmission seems like buying a Bee Gees album.
The PT Cruiser for 2005 had a nice price cut. Now you can get the car for a base sticker price of under $14000, with manual transmission! Great!
Only one thing. You can only get two options, and YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to get A/C (Automatic tranny required)
What the $%&#!!
Now SOME manufacturers will tell you people don't want manuals any more.
Might these be the same ones pairing manuals with the weakest engines, the least equipment, the poorest colors, or the fewest choices of trim?
Let's face it, manufacturers are MANIPULATING the public into NOT getting the manual.
Everyone will point to how low the percentage of manual drivers there are for new cars, but if you put the manuals with better equipped, more powerful cars, they will sell very well!
Manuals are cheaper to buy, cheaper to repair, have fewer problems, require less maintainance, perform better (cars are faster, though the gap is shrinking), and are more efficient!
In other words, it is THE BEST tranny you can buy!
But will you?
Anyone else have a bone to pick with the PLANNED OBSOLESENCE of the "Stick"?
0
Comments
My family has manual transmissions because we've always had to buy old, cheap cars, and automatics start shaking, stuttering, and dying at that age. But now I'll never switch; I could fall asleep in an automatic. It's just no fun at all. And sure, a DSG might be faster (I could shave a couple of seconds off my commute!) but I'm speeding everywhere as it is.
The Audi A3 is a car I'd consider, probably for my next car. But I won't be able to get the Quattro version. Among luxury cars, only those with street cred among racers (IS, G35, 3-series) will have luxury transmissions but who knows for how long?
The challenge of trying to pull off smooth shifts is rewarding. So's a good heel-and-toe as you barrel into a turn. And of course, the girls seem to like it too.
a slushbox car.
That changed after I had a stroke in 2000 and I was forced to buy a clutchless car. I'm now on my third juicebox car and I'm grateful that I've been able to get then with manumatic gearboxes (Tiptronic Audis and a Steptronic BMW). These are not as satisfying to operate as a good manual but they do allow you to easily select a gear which may be more appropriate when driving in certain conditions.
They're getting better all the time and there's a good chance that my next car will be equipped with a DSG type shifter which allows for very fast race-car type shifts and best of all has no torque converter to soak up the power.
I wonder why some high performance cars, notably the new Corvette C6 do not offer a Manumatic type shifter in place of the tradition set it and forget it automatic?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
There's no way I would even try to endure a Midwest summer without air conditioning!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Mazda3 i is like that.
I'm not paying $850 for A/C. Ain't happnin'!
DrFill
Even in in New England where hardly anyone has an airconditioned home it's almost universal in cars.
After all a car is a big metal box that heats up quickly and cools down slowly.
Back to topic I'm sure we're only about a decade away from a time when only purpose built sports cars will have three pedals and even with those many will have no clutch pedal, like today's Enzo.
.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
And the lack of a 5-speed really hurt sales of the Lexus IS to their desired market in 2001.
DrFill
Then there are companies like Honda that still seem fairly committed to making sticks available, at least for all their 4-cyl models. And they still sell a very healthy mix of manuals in the Civic and even the Accord lines. Toyota, of course, has all but given up on the manual but even it is aware of the appeal in sporty cars - the Corolla XRS with the Celica engine has a 6-speed manual as its only transmission.
Lastly, I am encouraged to see Acura having a very hard time moving auto-trans RSXs, so much so that they have extended and cheapened a promotional lease on auto RSXs only. BMW had so many leftover auto 3-series sedans that it did the same thing - the salesman informed me when I checked into it that the special lease applies only to autos, NOT manuals.
Subaru is another one that still sells a healthy mix of manuals, but of course follows the trend of not offering a manual for any of its 6-cyl models - shame shame.
That is all the good news. The reality, I think, is that most of the premium-branded models we still have with sticks today (Acura TL/TSX, BMW 3- and 5-series, Mercedes C-class and SLK, Lexus IS, Audi turbo 4's) will not have them within a decade. Either SMG/SMT will be cleaned up to work much better, or more companies will adopt a DSG-type system, and it will be toughened up to handle more power. In the meantime, auto-stick will gain wider and wider acceptance.
I think we can reasonably expect some pick-ups to continue to have them, along with some smaller sporty cars. I think the rule of having manuals standard in all really cheap 4-cyl cars will also go away, however, once auto-stick becomes really pervasive.
And on a sidenote, I think A/C will be standard on every car within a decade. Cars without it already take such a huge hit on saleability at trade-in time, it is doing a disfavor to the owner not to make it standard. And it must be like 95% of all cars and trucks that now have A/C from the factory.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The 2006 Pontiac Solstice will initally only be available with a manual tranmssion.
I hope the Cadillac CTS-V is only available with a manual transmission in the future (as it is now).
The Corvette Z06 needs to stay manual only (no autos or paddle shifters).
I think it is sad that the new BMW M5 doesn't have a manual transmission...any pimple-faced teenager with a permit can drive it! It took skill to drive the old M5s.
And don't forget, IIRC, the next M3 also will not have a traditional manual.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Farfegnugen!
DrFill
The better balanced, more desirable trims with good engine power, offer both trannys.
The Z06, RX-8, M3, and other pure performers, use the best performing transmissions (Manuals and quicker-adjusting manumatics).
If you can't drive, what are you doing in a RX-8? It loses 30 HP just because you can't drive!
Life can be so simple. Am I President yet?
DrFill
Now what about the Corvette, as far as the "more expensive option" theory goes? In that car, isn't the manual the extra-cost option? And what about GTO, is it the same?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not sure,Anyone know? but it's the GM thing again I bet
So at least Subaru is listening to those manual tranny fans still out there.
Bob
Then you go over and take a look at the 2 sticks, out of 50 cars he has.
One is Neon green, and the other is totally base, no ABS, etc.
Chrysler uses the stick as bait (and switch!), for it's lower price of entry, and higher EPA, but really has no intention of making it a part of the family.
Too bad, so sad.
I take this as disrespect. Definitely hurts my interest in the car in question (PT CRuiser, for example).
DrFill
- nipponoly
The new 2005 Corvette shares a chassis with the Cadillac XLR but the Cadillac has a 4.6 Northstar DOHC V-8 and is a much different car.
The Pontiac GTO is really a Holden Monaro which is built in Australia. It is a very nice car, even though it has bland styling. The Holden Monaro doesn't share a chassis with the Corvette.
And you know what else? With this thread in mind, I decided to stop by my friendly Jeep dealer again today - still no manual Libertys in stock, but they did have right up front a Wrangler Rubicon with the 6-speed manual. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Decent looking truck, though. A stick would make it more appealing. And a $21k price tag, well-equipped.
DrFill
I have said it before and I believe it will prove to be true that the only hope for the manual is the computer sequencial shift. That way the whole transmission can be under warrentee. The clutch and pressure plate are not covered under most standard warrentee.
Do I like manuals? Yes. Would I jump ship for a paddle shifter? A real one? In a heart beat. With the move towards traction control and some of the other automatic systems heal and toe may soon become a thing of the past. I read a review on the Porsche GT3 last year and you couldn't heal and toe it because as soon as your foot touched the break it cut back on fuel delivery. There is hope but with every new generation learning to drive on automatics there will be fewer willing to take the time to learn to drive a manual. That will make fewer manuals on the used car lot and the spiral will continue. I can't see how the trend can be reversed. Unless Nippon can take the manufacturer leaders hostage and force them to his will.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You have to realize, the opinions of people in this type of forum are a tiny minority out in the real world.. I'd bet 8 or 9 out of 10 people prefer an automatic and can't even drive a stick.
I will ALWAYS have a handshaker. ALWAYS! I will find the last one on Earth, and guard it with my life.
Because the people are weak, and easily led, changes nothing. My die has been caste.
Maybe I should start a driving school? I will carry the flag for purist everywhere, and protect the Holy Grail.
DrFill
I bet you're right. I am in an office of around 100 people. I did a parking lot survey, and couldn't find any stick shifts except my car and one other truck guy like me who also has a stick shift 4Runner. But his other "car" is a motorcycle, so I am not that surprised.
And this included a couple of sporty cars, including an RSX and a Mustang, both automatic, and a couple of BMW 3-series. Certainly 90% of the cars in our parking lot are offered as a manual, but nary a one of the ones in our lot is so equipped.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Really the manufacturers are part of the problem when the only stick equiped models will always be the most absolutely stripped model on the floor.
If you do that with any option or choice, you're going to help kill it as well. Hell my previous car was an auto simply because I couldn't find a stick in the 5-door version at all and the few 3-doors I found where just stripped down completely. I thought I could live with the automatic......just couldn't do it. Finally traded it away.
The point is they even got me into an automatic (if only for awhile) because of the really, REALLY crappy availability of sticks. I know all they care about is the bottom line, but it does stink.
Now I'm certain that the majority of drivers do in fact want automatics, but a good chunk still would like to row their own gears........in a properly equipped car.
Driving an automatic now would be like being forced to listen to Frank Sinatra tunes over and over again, when I have so much classic rock at my easy disposal in cassette tape form. Really!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm proud to say that my car isn't available w/ an automatic in NA. Stick shift it or buy something else
Of course, now I have the unenviable task of teaching my daughter to drive it ... one school of thought says I just toss her the keys and tell her "go for it" -- albeit in our neighborhood only, so as to avoid the many hills in our town....
Now that she's got her license, I miss my Saturn (V6, leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc.) which she is driving. I'd love to trade back with her, but she's not ready to handle the stick shift.
Of course, the daughter would love to see us trade in the Focus for a Mini Cooper (silver w/ black roof, CVT transmission).
Not bloody likely!
One thing is, I would get an AT before an SMG type of tranny. I don't particulary trust them, and they seem to have some limitations in normal use. Plus, it wouldn't be the same, so I would likely leave it in auto mode anyway.
maybe after 25 years, a clutch is so ingrained, its like putting on my glasses in the morning. I just do it without thinking about it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My first and last auto EVER, mark my words. The Matrix auto is actually pretty good for a non-tiptronic automatic. It downshifts quickly if you give it more gas, will hold gears all the way to redline if you floor it off the line, and even downshifts on steep downhill stretches to provide a little bit of engine braking.
It was still so awful that after 18 months it had ruined the experience of the car for me, and I sold it at a loss. There were one or two other little things that bugged me about the car, but certainly not enough to sell it before five years - the automatic was the deciding factor. Ironically, it was a good thing that it was automatic at resale time, because it proved impossible to get a private buyer to pay more than the delaer would on trade, and the dealer said he would have offered at least $1000 less for a stick.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A DSG should be perfect, and if I ever lose my left leg or the ability to move my right arm away from the steering wheel, I'll go for one of those. For now, I like the additional dimension of control that the clutch gives, and keeping all four appendages busy is fun.
Actually I can see myself going for one if I ever have a long commute in traffic that I can't avoid. They never stall, right? Do they go between neutral and first automatically when you're driving at an almost-stop? Hm, I have to go read up on them.
I drove a Vibe GT (Matrix) when it first came out. 6-speed, of course. Had a grand ole time!
Went to NY and drove the Matrix XRS. Same.
Hate the red guages and driving position. Otherwise a great new 'Yota!
Whenever someone asks me to drive an Auto, I hold up my hand like Fred Sanford ("I can't because of my Authoritise....")
DrFill
DrFill
I do like the (current) IS a lot as my friend has one, but Lexus doesn't quite know what to do with that car unfortunately. Sportcross with a stick would have been great.......especially compared to what a 3 series wagon would run you.
But then there's Europe, where all but a few M-B buyers shift by themselves and like it that way. So anyone selling their stuff there has to at least design a manual transmission for their cars...
I don't know what the situation is in Japan, but they're moving towards automatics too. Fortunately, Honda's still a lot better at manuals.
The only AT I can even sorta stand are with bigger engines, maybe because they aren't so noticable. 4 cyls, especially higher strung ones, are horrible with AT.
Worst part (after always being in the wrong gear)? The sound. They all sound funny accelerating in lower gears, and make an unnatural bang sound shifting up.
Not that I'm shallow or anything...
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.