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Comments
*ducks to avoid BMW fan's sharp thrown object*
But on-topic here, this is oh-so-very Toyota (and Lexus) - they figure buyers with the money to afford the "better" model will expect not to have to shift for themselves. The critic are right that it speaks volumes to Toyota's understanding of "enthusiasts", which is not to say it is a bad business decision. Even if there were a manual available for the IS350, it would probably sell 10-20% or so max, not a high portion. The only models that still sell in significant volumes in manual trans are small-engined cars, which the 350 is not. (there, I have admitted it, sigh)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As a former 3-Series owner, I do find it interesting that the IS has been positioned to go toe to toe with the 3-Series while being offered without one key feature that makes the 3 a 3 (at least in my mind), namely a manual transmission.
Regarding the large engine vs. the smaller/revvier (sp?) mill coupled with a manual transmission debate; I agree that the larger the displacement of the motor, the smaller the need for a manual gearbox. Having said that, I find the combination of a larger motor and a true manual transmission to be a wonderful thing to behold and drive.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Absolutely, the smaller plant traditionally benefits all the more from a manual. I think that there's also a sales connection (loose axiom here) between less expensive smaller plants and (usually) less expensive manual trannies.
Yeah, our enthusiast ranks step outside the box here, but consider how fully the enthusiast attitude inspires the automotive press. The 3 is what it is (as Shipo points up) as a benchmark based on the enthusiast's ideals, IMO. And Lexus having publicly declared that BMW is a target, and further that the IS is the sporting entry for its assault on the BMW cache, it makes zero sense not to offer a manual in the 350 to me, even given that if I bought one it would be an automatic!
None.
Nada.
Nil.
Zilch.
The press will not be pleased. And rightly so.
BTW, I'd still drive its rubber off, even without the manual. ]-}
LOL!
Yup, that's the spirit. Had said spirit prevailed over in the IS discussion, it would never have augered in as it did. Oh well! [;-/
Best Regards,
Shipo
are there any 8-cyl cars left with a clutch available? Besides the Corvette and GTO, I mean. Oh wait, and the Mustang GT. Is there still a manual-shift 540i? Or 545i, or whatever it is nowadays? I don't think so. This is one of the rare occasions when I find myself compelled to give kudos to GM and Ford. Toyota and Honda will certainly never have a V-8/manual combo, not now, not ever it seems. And the "premium brands" are slinking away from the traditional manual just as fast as possible.
I am with shipo - rowing the gears is the best way to connect to the machine and enjoy the drive, even if larger-engined cars have enough power that you don't really need to wring out the engine to go fast.
And as long as I can make the comment quietly over here without provoking 200 posts of ire, I agree with the thinking that regardless of cost, Toyota should have made a regular manual available for the IS350. To fit the image.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Good news, the 545i is still equipped with a good old fashioned 3-Pedal 6-Speed manual as standard equipment. The 6-Speed Steptronic and the 6-Speed SMG are no cost options. This actually makes the 545i manual relatively less expensive than the previous E39 540i 6-Speed, which was the most expensive 5er south of the M5.
Best Regards,
Shipo
shipo: thanks for the clarification - so there is still a manual 545i. Kudos to BMW as well, then, although I will bet you almost any money this will be the last 8-cyl 5-series to have a three pedal manual. I bet it is slick, though, if you can raise the $50K+ it costs to buy one. :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think part of the reason that Lexus is opting out of a manual for the 350 (thus far), is that, unlike the Europeans, their core market is the US! They are targeting higher sales in Europe (witness the IS220d), but it's not where they make serious coin by a long shot.
Remember what Dennis said: Toyota is very conservative with its business model. If they can't make a significant business case for something, it won't happen. I think that's going to bite them with regard to the IS, as it has in the past...
Which really sucks.. I bought my first manual transmission car specifically to save the $300 charge for automatic (yes, that was a very long time ago).
regards,
kyfdx
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[-P
I went to the Reds opening day game today... Two homers in the bottom of the 9th to win 7-6, and 70 degrees and sunny..
And... the beer was cold..
Speaking of driving... the wife drove home.. and a good time was had by all..
You should have seen me driving my brand-new '77 Cobra II home.. First time driving a stick, other than in my friends driveway.. I think I just about wore out the tires getting out of the dealer's parking lot.
regards,
kyfdx
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OT, excluding the "exotics (M5/M3/S4), the best yardstick to see if Lexus' business decision makes sense is to look at the compititions sales of MT in the base and optional engine models.
Using BMW, what's the MT% in the 325 vs. 330?
G35: Well, only one engine, so just look at the overall split.
TSX? Oops, only one engine again. Ditto for TL.
Hmm, I must be missing some other model...
Anyway, I'll probably stay stick until I die (or I try to paint the kitchen agian and am stiff as a board the next day). Might revisit if my driving habits change, but I don't spend much time stuck in traffic, so not a big deal.
I almost prefer the smaller engine with a stick (small within reason). You can get a lot more use out of it. Too much HP, and you have trouble ever winding it out. If you have to short shift all the time, it's not as much fun.
In some ways, a small underpowered car is the most fun. You can wind the bejesus out of it, and don't have to worry about tickets.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
;+)
At least my first stick embarassment was private, if more severe. Took Dad's brand spankin' new '77 Accord (he was ahead of his time) for a spin around the driveway (big driveway) while they were in Napa for the day. This would be about four months before my license. Had a blast screamin' around on the gravel playing Ongais, and executing some pretty smooth shifts (1-2-3), or so it seemed then. So I figger I'd best not tempt fate, and I brought her in for a landing by the fence next to the garage. Nobody'd be the wiser, right? I eased up to the fence on the brake, came to a stop, and then, forgetting to take her out of gear, popped the clutch. Whole damn fence (rotted posts) fell over, and there was a cute little crease in the bumper.
For my 18th birthday, Mom and Dad made a present of the rest of my repayment obligation! Mom made up a fortune cookie for me (with a candle stuck in it) that read "Confucius say: he who drive unlicensed have little accord". Funny lady...
Unfortunately, I had no choice but to break my vow. Our 1996 Isuzu Trooper 5-speed gave us one too many reasons to put a bullet into it. The only SUV's that I looked at that still have a stick were the X5 3.0 and base Cayenne. They were far too small to meet our needs, so my vow was broken on a 2005 Acura MDX. Try as I might, I couldn't get the Acura dealer to retrofit a 6-speed tranny like the one in my 2004 TL.
I spoke with the owner of a Ferrari dealership recently and he indicated that the new 430 is being produced at 15% manual 6-speeds, 85% F1 SMGs. What in the world are we coming to??? Just a couple of years ago, you couldn't buy an M5 with an automatic. Now you can't buy a new one with a stick. That really sucks. I can finally afford one, but now I've got some Gameboy raised engineer telling me I've got to use my thumbs to switch gears?? . I don't care if it's faster shifting than me. Tiger Woods is a better golfer, but I haven't sold my clubs.
P.S. The MDX is my wife's first automatic as well. We have both tried to put our passengers through the windshield on a few occasions. I need to tie my left foot to something until it realizes the brake pedal isn't a clutch.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Good, they're not all poseurs like me...
[-)
I think somebody posted that 80% of all Ferraris are ordered with the 2 pedal F1 paddle-shift, sounds about right.
Stick shifts are hard to come by in the extreme exotica category (supercars)-Ferrari Enzo and Saleen S7 have paddle-shifts only, Mercedes SLR has a TC-based automatic (Manumatic I assume). The Porsche Carrera GT does have a lever and three pedals.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I'm just saying, I don't think the stick will ever totally go away ....it might eventually be viewed as an anachronism and only available on something like a Morgan, (just like side curtains), it might get harder and harder for the "average" person to buy one, but it won't totally go away.
I look at it almost like convertibles....30,40 years ago just about every car on the road had a convertible option. Now, very few do....most convertibles are "specialty" cars.... I think you'll see something similar with a "3 pedal" manual... the "average" car will have some type of auto or CVT (or maybe some SMG type thing)...the "pure" manual will be in cars like a Porsche or Miata, not many others.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have a 1995 Maxima SE with 154,000 miles on the original clutch. And I haven't babied it. If it ever becomes necessary to replace the clutch, it's less than a $500 repair, parts and labor.
I also have a 2004 Acura TL 6-speed. Exceptional short throw and smooth clutch. Two friends have 2002 TL's and they are on their 2nd and third automatic transmissions in less than 45,000 miles each. Acura is covering them under warranty - for now - but what a pain in the rear.
A third friend mistakenly bought a new 2004 BMW M3 SMG. The car has been back to the dealer at least 5 times for everything from standing start hesitation to 1-2 and 2-3 gear shift "shudders". He is in negotiation for them to give him his money back and sell him a 6-speed manual. A REAL 6-speed manual.
That's great news that somebody posted regarding the M5 being offered in a manual 6-speed due to US demand. I am seriously going to get my name back on the list.
Yes, but does she want autos or manuals?
Her words... she feels like she has more control, especially in the winter!
The school does have one vehicle with manual in the driver's ed carpool. I think it's a new Beetle, and they do get everyone to at least learn how to operate it so the kids will have experienced stick at least once!
A stick can be fun, esp in the right car, but in tight traffic...I do prefer an automatic.
:-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I got yer control, right here...
]-P
On that note, my 126 isn't bad in snow...take offs from a stop are drama-free with the 2nd gear start and primitive traction control...but some other dynamics are lacking.
http://www.newswheel.com/newswheel/stories/bmw-s-american-manual.htm
Best Regards,
Shipo
When the VW Touareg first came out I was very excited and thought it to be a superb addition to the SUV landscape. Well, the longer that vehicle has been out, the more problems have shown up. Also, the Touareg got lousy marks in CR regarding reliability.
I shouldn't just pick on VW in this respect, as Mercedes also has the reliability image problems. In fact poor reliability seems to be a "European disease," with VW and Benz both having a severe case. Once the customer loses trust in a brand, it is very, VERY hard to get those people back. This is especially true as the Japanese brands just get better and better.
Frankly, I'm not sure VW can recover.
Bob
But to continue on my thought posted above: I think the Europeans and VW have a tough road ahead. Once customers become wary of the product, it will take years for them to get those old customers back—and that's assuming the quality can match or better the Japanese brands—and the jury is still out on that.
Bob
A year ago, I was much more worried than I am today about the disappearance of manuals. I think traditional manuals will disappear in most of their usual applications, but WILL stick around in sporty cars. Maybe the thing with the M5 has given me false hope, I dunno.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
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