The Future Of The Manual Transmission

ruking1 · October 2011

The math indicates 20% of that population ! Perhaps it is indeed a snap shot of the (set) 20% ( of the passenger vehicle fleet) that are manuals.

shipo · October 2011

Between the Mazda3 i Sport, the Mazda3 i Touring, and the Mazda3 s models, Mazda is now offering not one, not two, but three different manual transmissions for the Mazda3; one 5-Speed and two 6-Speed units. Not too shabby.

ruking1 · October 2011

Sure part of the marketing demographic are those that would sometimes to always chose automatics, BUT It would seem that integral to the marketing "pizzaz" are the manual transmissions options.

ateixeira · October 2011

Let's face it kids now care more about the Dbs going thru their speakers than the HP going out the tailpipes

I think it's more about Megabytes going through the head units, actually.

Boom-box stereos have made way for geeky in-car tech.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

Well there are still plenty of people who love vinyl LPs and insist they offer better music quality, but that substantial group of highly vocal people did not save vinyl LPs.

ruking1 · October 2011

Well the real funny part is when you play "records" through today's digital and noise canceling systems, the effects / sounds can literally be the best of both worlds. !!! Some of the "re" mastered stuff is pretty surprising.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

Cadillac might brag about its manual transmission, but it took them long enough to get the clunkiness out of it.

ruking1 · October 2011

I think if you are talking of the Tremec TR 6060 (T-56 precursor), probably the best thing they did was use Chevrolet's Corvette's drive train and the mag suspension, rather than their oem DIY. My take is they still would be fumbling with it if they OEM DIY'ed. I personally would not get the mag suspension, but that is just a personal thing.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

a big sedan with a manual transmission is a very odd duck indeed. I don't expect there's much of a market for it--just the few, the brave.

benjaminh · October 2011

Or, what about the Mazda5 small minivan with the 6 speed manual...freakish, but good!?

xwesx · October 2011

I like the Mazda5. Then again, I'm a bit freakish myself!

If they offered it with any options at all, I might seriously consider it.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

Another odd duck if you think about it. The likely driver would be female and the minivan itself is hard to conceive of as "fun to drive", so it would seem that the typical minivan buyer would not be walking out of the dealership, indignant that no manual transmissions were available.

stever · October 2011

My wife really wanted to like it.

But the test drive didn't grab her.

shipo · October 2011

Back in 1998 when Mrs. Shipo and I first started dealing with the thorny issue of the family minivan she asked, "Well, do they come with a stick?"

"Uhhh, no."

"Well then I'm driving it; you're driving it!"

"Uhhh, yeah, about that."

In the end we both ended up driving them; she first drove our 3.8 liter 1998 DGC Sport until 2003 when she upgraded to a fully tarted 3.8 liter DGC ES. Our 1998 sat until the summer of 2005 when A) my business partner and I started a new niche business,

I turned in my 2002 530i SP 5-Speed in at lease end, and C) took a contract some 55 miles from our house. Even if I could have afforded a new BMW (what with the new business and all), the whole commuting 110 miles a day (plus kid schlepping) thing pretty much ruled out any kind of a new ride. I took the 1998 DGC out of moth-balls (it had about 70,000 miles on it by then), and proceeded to put another 110,000 miles on it in the next two years.

I traded the 1998 in on a 2009 Mazda3 5-Speed (utter bliss to drive compared to the minivan), and now that our 2003 is getting a bit long in the tooth (165,000 miles and counting), Mrs. Shipo is looking at a number of new small cars (Golf, Mazda3, Focus, Cruze, and maybe even a GTI), and all of them have one thing in common; three pedals under the dash.

In our case at least, had the DGC been available with a stick and the 3.8 liter mill, two examples of such would have ended up in our garage.

volkov · October 2011

Many Euro micro/mini vans with 6sp stick and mated to small diesels too. So really only freakish in the NA market.

plekto · October 2011

Another factor behind the decline of stick shifts: Drivers don't have enough arms to shift gears anymore. Consumers today often hold the steering wheel with one hand while holding a cell phone or even attempting to text with the other. It is a common bad habit that makes manually shifting gears a nuisance requiring a third arm

This is the #1 reason to buy a manual transmission vehicle for a new driver. They physically can't do these potentially dangerous things and have to spend all of their attention on driving the vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2011

Actually Dan Gurney drove with his knees during the running start lap at Le Mans, in his GT40---that's what I do when I need to perform essential tasks between shifts. It's not pretty but it works. :P

Yes, it's an odd duck in the NA market. But then, we aren't delivering vegetables in Istanbul.

benjaminh · October 2011

Like your choices for your next car.

A 4 door VW GTI manual is a very nice choice.

Also check out the Civic Si 4 door. They're rare, hard to find, but represent a solid value, given that they have an Acura engine and Acura 6 speed manual trans for c. 12k less than a TSX. And since it weighs c. 500 # less than the TSX it's a lot quicker. Oh, it also has a close to Acura stereo--nice speakers, 360 watts. Since the Si comes standard with a moonroof it's about 2k less than a GTI when comparably equipped.

But I really like the GTI. Awesome looking car. incredible room, functionality, and performance in a small pkg. Plaid seats that remind me of lederhosen (sp?) somehow....lol.

But then there's the Mazda3 Skyactiv! For less money you get much higher mpg. Not as quick, but really an impressive car.

Those three all seem great. Sure the others are good too. Keep us updated on your shopping....

shipo · November 2011

This next car is for Mrs. Shipo, she may let me drive it upon occasion. :P

The Civic Si isn't an option as it is just to plastic for her tastes and she didn't like the "buzzy little engine" as she called it.

The Mazda3 is kind of taking itself out of contention as Mazda has seen fit to only allow us buyers to opt for a relatively stripped Mazda3 i Touring if we want the SkyActiv-G engine with a manual transmission; very-VERY annoying.

The Ford Focus it taking itself out of contention due to its extremely tight rear seat legroom; by far the worst of the cars we've looked at (after all, we do still have two teenagers at home to schlep around).

That leaves us with the Cruze or the Golf/GTI. At this point I have no feel for how she's going to choose; our seventeen year old son is of course lobbying hard for a 2-door GTI with the 6-Speed manual transmission.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

I dunno...I get the willies when thinking about buying a first year GM product (first year in the USA I mean, for the US version of the car--the Cruze has been around awhile globally in various forms).

hpmctorque · November 2011

Maybe your perception lags reality, as this is the new GM.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

Oh, yes, of course. :surprise:

shipo · November 2011

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Cruze ECO in its second year now?

qbrozen · November 2011

our seventeen year old son is of course lobbying hard for a 2-door GTI with the 6-Speed manual transmission

You should remind him that he'll have to sit in the back on occassion.

4-door > 2-door

shipo · November 2011

Maybe, but he'll probably get to ride shotgun on the rare occasion when I'm driving; Mrs. Shipo would rather ride in the back with our daughter so they can talk girl stuff.

ateixeira · November 2011

Many Euro micro/mini vans with 6sp stick

A lot of them make it to Brazil as well:

Zafira
Meriva
Megane Scenic
Xsara Picasso
etc.

hpmctorque · November 2011

Yes, the Cruze is in its second year in the U.S.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2011

naw, naw, you'ze guys have it all wrong. Wasn't it The Cars that say in the song 'Double Life' off the Candy-O album "Ya take yer back seat rumble, take yer front seat wife."

She actually sits in the back seat whilst you drive? :confuse:

Oh, I forgot. Gabbing to women is as enjoyable as eating is to us dudes. :shades:

dudleyr · November 2011

The Cruze has a lot of potential, but as far as reliability it is near the bottom of the heap. Consumer Reports just released their updated reliability survey and the Cruze was rated last for small cars. Mazda 3 was first.

shipo · November 2011

The Mazda3 has eliminated itself from the final list due to the lack of options available with SkyActiv and manual transmission.

ateixeira · November 2011

Cruze was rated last for small cars

Ouch, that's such a bummer too because it's such a competent car otherwise. I hope GM can address the issues.

ateixeira · November 2011

Write Mazda, seriously.

I have no idea why fuel sippers and gadgetry should be mutually exclusive.

shipo · November 2011

Already did:

To: MazdaCustomerAssistance@mazdausa.com

Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:46:21 GMT

Subject: Product Information - Suggestions & Opinions

To whom it may concern,

I currently have a 2009 Mazda3; a car that I enjoy very much; my wife and I are now in the market for her next car, and we've been eagerly awaiting the release of the new SkyActiv Mazda3 i 5-Door, a car that has occupied the top of our short list since the SkyActiv announcements of earlier this year.

A few minutes ago I went to the new "Build Your Own" feature of your web site and see that the Mazda3 i GT models are not available with the better brakes of the "s" models, Automatic Climate Control, or the 6-Speed Manual Transmission. Is this a mistake?

Long story short, the limitations of how the Mazda3 can be configured have taken the Mazda3 completely off our list of replacement cars.

Suggestion: do yourself a favor and offer a fully optioned "s" GT model with the SkyActiv engine; if you don't, I'm quite certain we won't be the only customers you alienate.

shipo · November 2011

Hello Shipo,

Thank you for contacting Mazda. We appreciate you taking the time to bring your suggestion regarding the Mazda3 SKYACTIV available options to our attention. The current options listed on the site are the only ones available at this time. Consumer feedback is always very important to Mazda. Certainly, we want to offer exciting vehicles, and comments such as yours help us to achieve that goal.

Please note we have documented your suggestion for our corporate records. These records are continuously being reviewed by our Product Planning Department in an effort to provide only the highest quality products to our customers.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda.

Regards,

Nathan B.
Customer Assistance Specialist, E-Business

dudleyr · November 2011

I wrote Mazda as well. I would also like the sky activ engine with an MT, but I am no longer a spring chicken and power seats with lumbar are much more comfortable on long trips. Leather is also nice.

I can do without the sunroof though as they provide headroom issues. The sunroof used to be a stand alone option, but it looks like it is part of the GT package now.

Wish you could special order a Mazda (or Honda etc.) I would gladly pay a premium and wait a few months to get just the car I want. Not interested in what everybody else wants.

shipo · November 2011

I would gladly order and wait as well, in fact, I ordered both of my BMWs and we ordered both of our Dodge minivans too.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2011

Can't GM do their homework regarding a model release, like the Japanese do. You know, beat the crap out of the working mules until they feel assured they've found all the bugs?

plekto · November 2011

In reality, Japanese vehicles never were that wonderful or reliable. It's just that during the 80s and 90s, GM, Ford, and Chrysler were making such terrible cars that mediocre seemed like it was world-class by comparison.

ateixeira · November 2011

They'd better fix issues quick before the Cruze name becomes associated with poor reliability. Else we'll see yet another name change when it's replaced.

robr2 · November 2011

The Cruze has a lot of potential, but as far as reliability it is near the bottom of the heap. Consumer Reports just released their updated reliability survey and the Cruze was rated last for small cars. Mazda 3 was first.

Wa it last with a poor score or was it last with a good score because all cars do pretty well today.

BTW - I don't put much stock in CR reports. A failure to them has no degrees - a dead transmission is the same as a scratched trim piece.

ateixeira · November 2011

I think they do weigh certain problems heavier now, not sure to be honest.

They don't have a lot of data and I also wonder, was it Average among a bunch of reliable cars?

wwest · November 2011

"Older people..."

I'm 71 and I have not "pumped" the gas pedal, nor lifted it slightly(***), for so many years I can't count.

*** to promote an "early" automatic upshift.

wwest · November 2011

IMMHO there will always be a 3 pedal option but the third one will mostly likely be used to tell the hybrid system to "freewheel" during coastdown periods, not to "brake"/regen.

wwest · November 2011

Once she graduates from college, or gets an MRS degree (her words), my oldest granddaughter gets our '88 Carrera. The next in age gets the '78 Targa.

wwest · November 2011

"...VW GTI.."

Does it use the new VW engine "uprev" technique, FWD safety feature, should an unwary driver downshift to a level beyond the roadbed "sticktion" capability...??

shipo · November 2011

Please stop going there, this whole "uprev" thing is only an issue in your mind and completely irrelevant for any half way competent driver.

wwest · November 2011

"...irrelevalant..."

Not all drivers, not NEARLY all, are half way competent.

Moreso with FWD "drivers".

You have to be slightly less than competent to select a FWD to begin with. And where's the sportiness of driving a FWD with a manual transmission..??

shipo · November 2011

"...not NEARLY all, are half way competent."

Please enlighten us all as to which sanctioning body certified you to make such a judgment.

qbrozen · November 2011

You have to be slightly less than competent to select a FWD to begin with. And where's the sportiness of driving a FWD with a manual transmission..??

LOL!

Oh, you are one of THESE guys. The ones who get pounded in an argument, then come back weeks later only to make the same assinine statements. I didn't see YOU at the autoX to demonstrate your competency to all the FWD pilots. There is a large number of FWD owners who could hop into YOUR car and handily beat your time around any course without any practice. You obviously have zero experience with what you speak of.

dudleyr · November 2011

"Was it (chevy cruze) last with a poor score or was it last with a good score because all cars do pretty well today. "

It was last with a solid black circle.

The Focus was also quite a bit below average. Elantra was about average.

Yes all cars are more reliable today. Is a brand new Cruze more reliable than a 5 year old Honda - absolutely. Is the same Cruze more reliable than a 5 year old Honda was when it was new - no. Is the same Cruze more reliable than a 20 year old Honda when it was new - maybe. Using Honda Generically - they make unreliable cars too as the new Odyssey is bellow average by a fair amount.

Keep in mind that these are averages, and yes cars in general are pretty reliable. Car A may have a 2% chance of a bad tranny while car b has a 10% chance. Car a is certainly more reliable, but you still have pretty good odds with car b.

Consumer reports used to average by year for reliability, but now the rating is absolute so you can compare an old car to a new car.

Unfortunately for MT fans they combined the MT and AT reliability in one category so now we can't see if a car might have a bad clutch - obviously cars like the WRX or Civic SI that only come with an MT (or did) will give an indication.

The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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