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Lexus GS 450h

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  • alp8alp8 Posts: 656
    I've read that the GS450H trunk is SMALLER than the Camry Hybrid (TCH) trunk.

    True or False?
  • gs450hgs450h Posts: 49
    The trunk is quite small, because of the batteries. But I have been able to get 4 sets of golf clubs in my trunk, so what else matters?! ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "The trunk is quite small, because of the batteries. But I have been able to get 4 sets of golf clubs in my trunk, so what else matters?!"

    Man, I hope you don't shop at Costco.

    The Camry has a larger trunk. But not by much.
  • trungustrungus Posts: 4
    I drive an SC 430 and my wife drives the RX 400h, and we both love our cars. Recently, we decided to test the hybrid's power and CVT against the convertible. At 60mph side by side and with both cars punching the gas at the same time, her RXh actually pulled away from my SC initially until the V8 caught up to the hybrid at 85-90mph. I couldn't believe the RXh's passing power! From a standstill, the SC is faster to 60mph, but passing power is more important in everyday driving anyways. All this power and she gets 26-28mpg in mixed driving around the DFW area while I get 19-20mpg! By comparison, her previous RX 330 only got 20-21mpg. I definitely think that the added power and the increase in mileage definitely outweigh the cost differential even though most car experts say that it might take 4-5 yrs to recoup that cost differential.

    Now for the latest hybrid in the family. My dad just took delivery on the new GS 450h NM edition, and he paid $66K because window tinting and Sirius satellite were added. The unique paint scheme changes color depending on the light. This sedan is scary fast and extremely quiet! Definitely way faster than my SC. You don't know you're doing 90mph unless you look at the speedo.

    He recently tested the mileage by driving from his hometown to Dallas, a trip of 225 miles at 70mph on cruise control with a full gas tank, then he refilled the tank and it took only 7.5 gallons to fill it up. By my calculations, that works out to be 30mpg! Even better than the posted 25mpg city and 28mpg highway. Unfortunately, on the rare occasion when I get to borrow his car, I tend to have a heavy right foot and only get 18-20mpg according the the car's computer. The acceleration is intoxicating and addicting. I can't wait when I get to trade in the SC for a GSh next year.

    Keep in mind that the Lexus Synergy Drive system is geared towards performance, and not efficiency. However, these cars (the RX 400h, GS 450h and the upcoming LS 600h) are green in that they all have the SULEV designation.
  • alp8alp8 Posts: 656
    thanks for the info

    have your dad e-mail me when he is ready to sell it!!

    :-)
  • flidflid Posts: 11
    I am waiting for black on black. Has anyone heard of color availability other than white, silver and black? For those already enjoying your 450h, what kind of mpg are you experiencing? Any feedback on bluetooth phone useage? Best phones to use? Anyone using Treo?

    Any other feedback appreciated as well. I am eager to own this vehicle!
  • ewpiyoewpiyo Posts: 2
    If you go to the lexus website they have several different colors of the gs450H i just have no idea when they are coming out. I was hoping to hear more reviews from people who bought the car and have been driving it.
  • trungustrungus Posts: 4
    There is a black on black with every available option offered on eBay Motors... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-GS-GS450h-2007-Lexus-GS450h-799-MO_W0QQitem- Z4647308076QQcategoryZ6299QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    My dad's NM 450h is getting 25mpg mixed driving now. His Treo 650 works well with the car as does my RAZR phone. You can have up to 6 bluetooth phones and even name the phone on the "choose the phone" screen.
  • gs450hgs450h Posts: 49
    I am using a Treo and the bluetooth works fine.

    Highway mileage is great, about 30+ MRG. City is averging about 24
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,032
    A national finance magazine is looking to interview current hybrid owners who purchased a hybrid within the past year or two. The reporter is wanting to know if you have been satisfied or not with the gas savings you’ve been receiving. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the make and model of your hybrid vehicle.

    ------------------

    A national finance magazine is looking to interview consumers who are looking to purchase a hybrid vehicle and are looking at it from a financial standpoint, hoping to save money from the high cost of fuel. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, June 10, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the hybrid vehicle you are considering.

    Thanks,
    Chintan Talati
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • max460max460 Posts: 25
    The Total Horsepower is 340 i thought it was 339
  • ptpro3ptpro3 Posts: 5
    Yea I just checked the specs on the Lexus website. Did they change it to 340?? I'm positive I saw 339 before on that same page.
  • gs450hgs450h Posts: 49
    Anyone have an experience yet with using regular vs premium gas in the GS 450h? :confuse:
  • alp8alp8 Posts: 656
    wondering what the latest is on MPG? How are you guys doing?
  • alp8alp8 Posts: 656
    If there are any GS450H owners in the Palo Alto area, who would be willing to take me for a short drive, I'd really like to experience this car. I just don't want to go through the nonesense with a dealer. I am not buying, and I don't have to DRIVE YOUR car, but I'd be thrilled to experience it. I'll buy you a latte or lunch.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,071
    You'll notice new discussion starting to pop up in the 450h group here, like:

    Lexus GS 450h: Accessories & Modifications
    Driving Tips & Tricks for the GS 450h
    Lexus GS 450h: MPG-Real World Numbers

    If you have an issue or problem that you'd like to discuss about the 450h, and you don't see a specific discussion on it, please feel free to start one. I'll be pulling some posts from this general discussion to start up some new discussions, but as issues arise with the vehicle, I'm sure we'll see even more created by those of you driving them!

    MODERATOR
    Need some roadside assistance? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,071

    MODERATOR
    Need some roadside assistance? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 6,071
    The posts about being on the waiting list, deposits, etc, were moved to the Lexus GS 450h: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion.

    Please remember to check the topic list for the appropriate discussions before you post.

    MODERATOR
    Need some roadside assistance? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    This is quoted from a blurb on the 2008 GS in Europe. In contrast to the USA the GS450h is quite sucessful.
    "With global sales exceeding 100.000 units to date, the success of the GS has been further bolstered by the launch of the GS 450h, which introduced the company's Lexus Hybrid Drive technology to the model range in 2006. Reinforcing the significance Lexus customers place on hybrid drive technology, the GS 450h occupies an increasingly prominent position, currently representing over 40% of European GS sales.
    GS 450h"
  • jhowjhow Posts: 6
    Since purchasing my GS450h I have been experiencing tingling in the hands and feet, numbness in the face, stinging sensation in the eyes while driving. These symptoms occur only when driving the Lexus GS450h, and at no other time in no other car.

    The dealer and I worked months to rule out a number of possible causes without success. Finality, without another working theory about what the problem might be, I began to investigate electromagnetic field radiation (EMF) coming from some part of the hybrid system as a possible cause. The hybrid motor and generator in your GS450h are located right next to the driver and front passenger, a unique (and, in my opinion, dangerous) design among hybrids.

    After making my own measurements, I asked an engineer who specializes in EMF mitigation in medical labs to take measurements. Using professional instruments he reported that the driver and front passenger were being exposed to up to 100 milligauss (mG) of electromagnetic field radiation (EMF) being generated by the hybrid system’s motor and generator.

    Sustained exposure of 100 mG makes driving the GS450h, aligned to some of highest levels of occupational exposure. Although there isn’t scientific consensus about the effects of EMF on human health, high levels of EMF exposure have been associated a numerous negative health effects. And, although there are still areas of scientific uncertainty, is it responsible for Lexus to produce a product that exposes its driver and passengers to these levels of sustained exposure?

    While it is true that some household products can generate high levels of EMF there are key differences that make the GS450h more problematic. For instance, at 6 inches away a high intensity florescent light can create an exposure of up to100 milligauss of EMF, at 1 foot away the exposure drops to 30 mG, then at 2 feet 8 mG, then at 3 feet, 4 mG. This rapid dispersal of the field and subsequent exposure is typical, which might explain why these high exposure levels seem to be unique to this vehicle. (Front and four-wheel-drive hybrids limit exposure by placing the motor and generator in the engine compartment at a distance from the driver and front passenger.)

    The EPA advises “prudent avoidance” related to exposure to EMF. How is this possible for the driver or passengers in the GS450? The EMF source is right next to you----you can’t move away as you can form a hairdryer, microwave, or other household source.

    To my knowledge, Lexus made no serious effort to test this car for EMF. Their position is they cannot “replicate the problem,” whatever that means in this context.

    I believe that at the very least, the need for further study of this vehicle for potential health and safety issues.

    Although I cannot drive this car, I will not sell my GS450h before I have done all that I can to ensure that this vehicle is not a danger to others.

    If you are experiencing similar symptoms, or want this vehicle to be investigated further you can contact NHTSA at: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    I believe what you are saying is true. We have a good friend that cannot be in a room with fluorescent lights for more than 15 minutes before he gets the same symptoms you are reporting. Constant bombardment by EMF is a problem. There was a poster a couple years ago having problems with EMF in his Insight. Honda gave the same cold shoulder treatment you are getting from Toyota. I think these symptoms are not experienced by a lot of people. So it would be a tough sell. As our friend Curtis has found with employers etc. Good luck getting this resolved.
  • rks6rks6 Posts: 6
    jhow,

    Your message regarding EMF and the Lexus 450 was posted sometime ago. Can you give me an update as to what has transpired since? Have you found a solution? Have you kept the vehicle?

    I manage a vehicle fleet and have been doing exhaustive research in this area as well as engaging in discussions with Toyota.

    Regards.
  • jhowjhow Posts: 6
    The only solution to date is not to drive the car. No response from Lexus, even after repeated letters and phone calls, etc. One possible solution offered by an engineering firm specializing in EMF mitigation--which is not practical or feasible in my opinion--is to devise some sort of shielding that would reduce the level of exposure. Clearly, this is something Lexus should have done better in the design phase. After what I have been through I am not all that interested in keeping the car; however, as I stated in my post, I have no intention of selling until this comes to some sort of resolution, or until I am convinced that the car is not a hazard to others. In fact, I have a renewed interest and engagement in researching EMFs related to product design and regulation.

    As you probably know, there was a period of intense investigation and interest in EMF as a health threat in the 1990s, culminating with the 1999 NIEHS Report on "Health Effects from Exposure to Power-Line Frequency Electric and Magnetic Fields." The conclusions of that report significantly slowed the research being done around EMFs.

    Even though the conclusion of report is that "scientific evidence suggesting that ELF-EMF exposures pose any health risk is weak," they go on to say that, although "none of the Working Group considered the evidence strong enough to label ELF-EMF exposure as a ‘known human carcinogen’ or ‘probable human carcinogen’ . . . .a majority of the members of this Working Group (19/28 voting members) concluded that exposure to power-line frequency ELF-EMF is a ‘possible human carcinogen.’ "

    "Possible human carcinogen” is not something I believe we can completely ignore. The NIEHS report agrees, stating: "because virtually everyone in the United States uses electricity and, therefore, is routinely exposed to ELF-EMF, passive regulatory action is warranted such as a continued emphasis on educating both the public and the regulated community on means aimed at reducing exposures."

    That should be the aim of product development: protect the public by reducing exposures. If the measurement of up to 100+mG of sustained exposure for the driver and front passengers in the GS450h proves accurate (still waiting for Lexus or NHTSA to test this car and tell me I am wrong), it brings interesting questions to light about the safety of this vehicle, regulatory requirements for manufacturers, and the responsibility of manufacturers in light of the “scientific uncertainties” about the high/sustained levels of exposure to EMF.

    If you haven’t read it already, I recommend you read the executive summary of the "California Risk Evaluation for Policymakers and the Public” (2002) http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ehib/emf/RiskEvaluation/ExecSumm.pdf

    This is a summary of findings from a meta-analysis of epidemiological studies by experts. Their conclusions differ somewhat from the NHIEH report and focus on a wider range of health effects (at first glance, I have not yet read either report entirely). Their conclusion: “To one degree or another, all three of the DHS scientists are inclined to believe that EMFs can cause some degree of increased risk of childhood leukemia, adult brain cancer, Lou Gehrig’s Disease, and miscarriage.” Not very reassuring.

    As for my physical problems while driving this vehicle, many symptoms like this have been reported as a reaction to EMFs. The number of individuals driving the GS450h may be small (I read only 2000 were imported), but I can’t be the only one who has issues like this when driving this car. In fact, I know I am not. I realize that I may, however, be part of the minority of drivers/passengers who are sensitive to EMF (electro-sensitivity is also a scientifically debated phenomenon.)
    However, I have never experienced any symptoms before driving this car.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article565208.ece

    You mentioned that you were evaluating cars for fleet purchase. I want to stress that I have no knowledge about levels of exposure in other Lexus or Toyota hybrid vehicles, only the GS450h (and that data has yet to be replicated by other studies). I can only speculate that vehicles that do not place the motor and generator right next to the driver will have lower passenger compartment EMF levels than the GS450h, as the fields dissipate quickly with distance.

    I sincerely hope that hybrid cars can be (and are being) produced that have little or no increased EMF exposure. We don’t want to trade one environmental hazard for another.

    Anything you might offer in terms what you have uncovered in your research would be appreciated. I would be happy to be wrong about most or all of this; unfortunately, I don’t think I am.
  • rks6rks6 Posts: 6
    jhow,

    There are now many, many cases of hybrid vehicle owners attempting to return their vehicle after discovering the associated risks with high EMF levels and negative health effects. Fleet managers need to be particularly concerned about EMF issues as drivers of fleet vehicles can spend their entire working day in the high EMF environment. In addition, commuters who spend significant time in their vehicles also need to be concerned especially if children are also occupants.

    In our testing the primary source of EMF was the wiring harness that connects the AC/DC Inverter to the battery pack in the trunk. In the Prius, at any one time, the harness can carry 100 amps of current. At floor level, our readings showed levels as high as 300 milli gauss depending on the vehicle state. As an organization, we attempt to limit constant EMF exposure to less than 5 milli gauss in the work environment meaning a fleet driver would certainly be within their rights to refuse to drive a hybrid for extended periods of time. I'd love to see some health studies of some of the cab drivers whose vehicles are full hybrids. The problem is that most individuals don't know about EMF and it's associated risks as it relates to hybrid vehicles. The auto industry tries to downplay this issue and the automotive journalists out there won't tackle the issue for a variety of reasons.

    I've asked Toyota Canada on separate occassions to confirm or deny our information that Prius' destined for Sweden and other countries has EMF sheilding installed to meet that country's higher automotive EMF exposure standards. Still no reply. I'm going to ask again in January.

    There are shielding solutions which could be implemented at the production stage which would reduce EMF levels. Naturally these solutions would add several hundred dollars to the vehicle cost and add some additional weight.
    I think if given the option in North America, many consumers would opt for the shielding if it was available.

    In your case, given your symptoms, I would sell the vehicle and move on to something else. Perhaps a Bluetec Diesel where your EMF sensitivity wouldn't be an issue and you could still reduce your environmental footprint.

    We need more environmentally friendlier automobiles but EMF is an issue that can't be ignored.
  • eteletel Posts: 1
    I'm just learning about hybrid cars and EMFs. Unfortunately I have I hybrid that I'm now uncomfortable with. jhow (or anyone else who has useful info) can you give me contact info for the engineering co, that was willing to retrofit your car with emf shielding?

    rks6 - any word from Toyota? And is the rumor true that they fit the European Prius (especially those bound for Switzerland) with sheilding that they don't use in the US?
  • rks6rks6 Posts: 6
    No word yet from Toyota.

    I would like to hear from some overseas owners who have a thorough knowledge of their Toyota/Lexus Hybrid and could help us determine if their vehicles have shielding installed. This could be done with a thorough visual inspection.
  • Can you explain the statement:

    I want to stress that I have no knowledge about levels of exposure in other Lexus or Toyota hybrid vehicles, only the GS450h (and that data has yet to be replicated by other studies).

    What data has yet to be replicated?
  • jhowjhow Posts: 6
    Sorry about the long wait for a reply. I have two sources of data for EMF emission in my GS450h, my own readings and one done by an engineer specializing in EMF measurement and shielding. I don't consider my own readings particularly reliable: they were done with a single-axis handheld Gauss meter I purchased on the Internet—a pretty crude instrument. Those readings indicated background of .5 or less to 40 mG when the car was being driven. A professional did the other readings as I described above. This engineer, in town on another job, did this measurement as a free service as he had become interested in the case through our email correspondence. As I described in my original posting, these measurements, done with sophisticated equipment, were considerably higher: 110mG+. I would like to have another agency make measurements and confirm this data, which I have no reason to believe is unreliable. I had been hoping that someone---Lexus, NHTSA, Consumer Reports, or the FDA---would become concerned enough to test the car, but this has not been the case. (I could have the vehicle tested at my own expense, which would require driving it over 300 miles, which I cannot do, due to the symptoms I develop when driving the car.) I still believe that the EMF levels in the 450h to be a problem; to my knowledge, this car creates more sustained exposure than any other consumer product.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Lexus, NHTSA, Consumer Reports, or the FDA---would become concerned enough to test the car, but this has not been the case.

    It is possible that so much is riding on Hybrids and EVs, they do not want to rock the boat. Without hybrids companies like Lexus and Toyota could not meet the CAFE regulations.

    My experience with RF and EMF are from a distance. I worked with a lot of radio techs in my career. Many died at a young age from brain cancer. I am a firm believer in electrical waves of all types being a possible hazard. I avoided getting close to MW radios just as a precaution.

    You may be fighting an uphill battle. Do you have any kind of reaction to florescent lighting?
  • Hi Jhow,
    You just spoilt my day by spilling the beans on my favourite car.
    I was about to purchase this car(planning for a yr now) when I stumbled on this forum. A timely discovery!.
    I do hope you are wrong with the EMF readings. I am waiting to see if more owners will come forward to share any health effects so far. Only problem is that this model has only been in the market for more than 2 yrs, whereas any EMF effects may take 10-20 yrs to develope.
    Is there a way to alert owners of the Lexus GS 450h worldwide to this potential health hazzard so as to pressure Lexus to respond to customers' concerns?
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