Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Audi RS4

124678

Comments

  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Audi has a 7.8K stereo option coming this fall too, don't forget. Probably worth every penny, but still.

    Remember, this is exclusive to the S8- an already exclusive model. This will be a very low-volume stereo, and it's not like people must get it (although I'm sure those who would buy an S8 have the money to do so).

    ...but they're slowly getting more in line with MB/BMW IMO.

    Yes, this is sadly true. However, I still think a $12K premium over an Audi model with [possibly] even MORE content is unacceptable. Mercedes-Benz makes beautiful cars; but so does Audi.

    ...it has always been that way and Mercedes did (does) it because they can, ditto with BMW to a lesser degree...

    I don't think BMW's is any "lesser". I've built a fully-loaded 550i online- $86,000! (Also, keep in mind that for some reason my bmwusa website has a glitch: I can't add accessories. Estimate a REAL fully-loaded 5er to go for over $90K- I'd much rather have an M5!)

    Your quote "because they can" is subjective. Audi is literally becoming more respected by the day with their new models, and just because Mercedes-Benz and BMW are prestigious names does not mean they have the right to be overpriced. Why can't a luxury company be known for its low prices?

    Just think about the new models coming in the next two years: Q7, S6, S8, RS4, R8, A4, A5, S3(?).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Remember, this is exclusive to the S8- an already exclusive model. This will be a very low-volume stereo, and it's not like people must get it (although I'm sure those who would buy an S8 have the money to do so).

    True and what an awesome car it is!

    Yes, this is sadly true. However, I still think a $12K premium over an Audi model with [possibly] even MORE content is unacceptable. Mercedes-Benz makes beautiful cars; but so does Audi.

    I don't think BMW's is any "lesser". I've built a fully-loaded 550i online- $86,000! (Also, keep in mind that for some reason my bmwusa website has a glitch: I can't add accessories. Estimate a REAL fully-loaded 5er to go for over $90K- I'd much rather have an M5!)

    The only problem here is that one no one is paying sticker for an E-Class at this point and secondly nobody is going to load up an 550i to that level. All this about price premiums for BMW and Mercedes really doesn't reflect the total reality of what people are actually paying so I don't think you have much of a point here.

    Your quote "because they can" is subjective. Audi is literally becoming more respected by the day with their new models, and just because Mercedes-Benz and BMW are prestigious names does not mean they have the right to be overpriced. Why can't a luxury company be known for its low prices?

    Because that isn't the way the luxury car business works. People often assume (whether it is true or not) that a more expensive car is a better one and even one that start out "cheap" like Lexus get mightly expensive once they catch one. It is what it is. Those who can charge more will and those who don't probably will once they work their mojo a little further.

    Just think about the new models coming in the next two years: Q7, S6, S8, RS4, R8, A4, A5, S3(?).

    Yes Audi is on fire right now. Sales are up in nearly every major market around the world with all that product things will only get better. If they could get up to the volumes of MB/BMW in the U.S. they'd really be on to something.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Interesting post. For Audi to do what you're saying as far as weight they'd have to come up with some very fancy (i.e. expensive) engineering that would throw the affordability of those models out of whack. I seriously believe Audis are heavier because of their industry-leading build quality of their interiors and of course because of Quattro. Combine those two things with all the other toys that other RWD cars have and you have a heavy vehicle. The A8 really missed the mark in terms of being lightweight compared to a car like Jaguar XJ. The Jag really shows what can be done with the fancy metals, but the Jag is lite features compared to the Germans.

    I don't think luxury car buyers are going to stop buying because of gas prices, they are able (or supposed to be) to afford a litte more $$ for gas. Its the people buying everyday SUVs that can't afford any more $$ for gas and panic when gas reaches th $3 mark.

    M
  • jim2727jim2727 Posts: 7
    I think the problem is that the German manufacturers are trying to be sporty and luxurious. Not sure what the official weight of the RS4 is but I read Audi was addressing the weight problem.

    I'm going to wait and see what the Evo X is like. They are supposed to be building an Evo that is both fast, comfortable (I doubt it will be very close to the Audi) and around 3000 pounds. If they acheive the weight goal, I doubt they will have any problem out-performing the RS4/new M3. If they acheive the luxury goal, I would be embarrassed to spend 35K more on a BMW or Audi.

    My fear is the Germans are just going to ignore the value proposition and try to sell on prestige only. This may work great in Europe and the emerging economies (In China most businessmen drive German cars).

    Completely off the subject but interesting point. You know one reason big Audis sell so well in China? Because you have to get an Audi to get a military plate. If you have a military plate, the police leave you alone and you don't pay road tolls.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Because that isn't the way the luxury car business works. People often assume (whether it is true or not) that a more expensive car is a better one and even one that start out "cheap" like Lexus get mightly expensive once they catch one. It is what it is. Those who can charge more will and those who don't probably will once they work their mojo a little further.

    Yes- I know that completely; I knew it while I was writing. I am just proving how an Audi with almost all the options (on the MBZ website you can get three designo packs for the E) usually goes for a good $20K less than a BMW or Mercedes-Benz fully loaded.

    Love the E update- E63!!! Glad Mercedes is running with BMW. Should be a screamer. Can't wait for the RS6, and maybe Jaguar will get serious about a new S-Type R if the S-Type ever gets redesigned.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes- I know that completely; I knew it while I was writing. I am just proving how an Audi with almost all the options (on the MBZ website you can get three designo packs for the E) usually goes for a good $20K less than a BMW or Mercedes-Benz fully loaded.

    Sorry, ESF but there really is nothing to prove because of the reasons I gave earlier about nobody paying sticker for those models and you'd rarely see those models loaded up that heavily anyway. You're just exaggerating about 20K because it isn't the norm (design certainly isn't) and you'd only see few cars a year equipped like that and then who is going to pay sticker for one?

    The next S-Type was supposed to be based on a shortened version of the XJ's platform, but they've cancelled that and decided to go with a re-hash of the current car. Jaguar has no chance in the segment IMO.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    The next S-Type was supposed to be based on a shortened version of the XJ's platform, but they've cancelled that and decided to go with a re-hash of the current car. Jaguar has no chance in the segment IMO.

    I completely agree with you here. The S-Type has never been a major player in this segment, and a minor refresh is not going to help. They need to drop in better engines, un-retro the design, and make the interior par to par with the new XK.

    By the way, Jag is rumored to be testing another model besides the XKR on that platform- the XKR-R! If it has 450+hp, and Jag decides to put it in the S-Type R, the car could actually have a chance.

    IMHO, the X-type is by far the weakest link in their lineup.

    Too bad they can't make them all as good as the XJ...

    :P
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I like Jaguar well enough, but they're pretty much done as far as competing head to head with Mercedes,BMW,Lexus or Audi. By the time they get a 450hp cars the competition will be at 600hp seeing as how 500hp is the standard in today's cars like the M5 and upcoming E63. Jaguars only advantage is less weight which could balance out the relative lack of power.

    I've seen the new XK on the dealers lot, its a a looker for sure as in the current XJ, but they aren't as special looking as the models they replaced IMO.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Do you really think the RWD E and 5 Series platforms could handle 600hp?

    I think the only way to go after about 550hp is lower weight- the horsepower wars are close to maxxed in the midsize segment by then.

    However, I think the A6 platform can handle more power because of its AWD configuration. The new RS6 will have 550hp, so they will be ahead of the game. It is interesting to note, however, that the E63 will be ahead of the M5 in terms of power.

    Also interesting is the fact that the RS4 is faster than the M5 and M6 around the Nürburgring. Seems ill-fitting for a super sports sedan that costs $20K less than the M5 and I believe $30K less than the M6 (I don't know exactly how much it costs). I did see THREE new M5s today- and S550s are becoming commonplace. The novelty is gone, but not the pretension.

    :P
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Not sure about in their current guise, but with the next generation models they very well could if they engineer the platform for such power from the start. However I agree that lower weight is likely the way to go because the build needed to support 600hp is going to make for a very heavy car.

    Audi does have the advantage of having awd. Where are you getting your info on the RS6 from? I haven't seen anything on it. Even so 550hp is nothing for Mercedes to beat with a new V8 capable of 514hp before they turbocharge it to hell.

    I don't think it is interesting that the RS4 is faster around a track than the much heavier, different-class-of-vehicle M5/M6. It would look bad for Audi if the RS4 wasn't faster around a track. Seeing M5s and S550s on a regular basis is the price of success. Audi wishes they had it like that. :P

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I see A8s all the time too! I just didn't say that because they're not new cars!

    Two days ago, I saw an '06 A8L with the big grille in black... with those gorgeous 19" rims! It was the best looking A8 I've seen in a while, as if they're not timeless anyway.

    The S-Class seems over styled the more I see it. It must be the wheel wells- put black plastic on them and it would look like a big Kia Rio sedan! :P

    I'm sure I'll be seeing about as many Q7s as S-Classes around here, if not more... Audi's poised to dominate the SUV market for the next year or two. I'm sure they won't reach Lexus RX volumes (it's amazing how many there are!), but they should be more popular than the brand-reviving Range Rover Sport and as popular as the X5.

    By the way, Mercedes-Benz wishes they sold as many as Lexus in America.

    :blush:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well ESF if Mercedes wishes they sold as much as Leuxs then where does leave Audi? Audi isn't even in the running thats where. Audi is the the German runt, or laggard if you will.

    Audi isn't going to dominate anything especially the SUV market and they likely won't even reach X5 levels either especially with a new X5 due soon.

    M
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    Audi is not the runt where people have better taste in cars....Germany
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    FYI, the Q7 already has 15,000 pre-orders-- 12,000 of which are in America!

    You, sir, are the very definition of an ignorant car "enthusiast". The whole point of being an "enthusiast" is being open to all cars, and Audi is darn good. I had two Acuras, the second of which I didn't really care for. I then bought an A6 2.7T quattro- and have been hooked on Audi ever since. Currently, I have an S4 Cabriolet. I wouldn't really call it a "runt". I wouldn't ever think of buying a BMW for myself, but I would think of buying a BMW/Mercedes-Benz for my wife, because she doesn't care about performance. Ouch. I know that hurt!

    Also, Audi is selling better than BMW and Mercedes-Benz in Germany, which is the companies' home market, obviously. That says something. It also shows how the U.S. is behind in what car is the trendiest. BMW is so 20th century- and Mercedes-Benz is a bit on the arrogant side. In America, we still perceive BMW as having the best image. I think Audi's renaissance will start with the 2008 Audi R8- based on the Lamborghini Gallardo, it should change America's prestige rankings for years to come.

    Finally, I have one main fact that points to Audi not being the "runt": they are Volkswagen-owned, which is the largest German car company to date. If anything, Audi has the most on its side. BMW is on its own, and Mercedes-Benz is a partner with one of the unsuccessful-of-late American companies (Chrysler).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You, sir, are the very definition of an ignorant car "enthusiast". The whole point of being an "enthusiast" is being open to all cars, and Audi is darn good.

    Too funny, this from a person that doesn't know the basics about any other brand then Audi? Hilarious. Yet you're good at assuming what Mercedes will do as far as pricing on future models yet at the same time aren't up to date on their current models. Sounds knowledgeable to me. Too funny.

    If you'd read anything I'd posted elsewhere you'd know that I like Audis a lot and hold them in higher regard than even BMW. I'd say the "ignorance" is your own, firstly to the facts about other brands (like Mercedes) and as to who likes what. Being open to all cars is something you've yet to display and when all you do is knock anything but Audi or when you do have something good to say about another brand it is packaged with a sublte knock about how they're beneath Audi as in your reason for buying a Mercedes.

    Now how is it that you're able to knock the brand of your choice, but when someone knocks Audi they're "ignorant"? Sounds like a double standard to me. I'm a big fan of all the German brands and don't knock them to their supporters like some do here. (hint)

    FYI, the Q7 already has 15,000 pre-orders-- 12,000 of which are in America!

    FYI dealers are free to order anything they want, doesn't mean squat until we see what actually goes out the door once the vehicle goes on sale.

    Also, Audi is selling better than BMW and Mercedes-Benz in Germany, which is the companies' home market, obviously. That says something. It also shows how the U.S. is behind in what car is the trendiest. BMW is so 20th century- and Mercedes-Benz is a bit on the arrogant side. In America, we still perceive BMW as having the best image. I think Audi's renaissance will start with the 2008 Audi R8- based on the Lamborghini Gallardo, it should change America's prestige rankings for years to come.

    Numbers please! Audi may be ahead in Germany, but they're still the runt of the liter when it comes to Europe as a whole. In America both BMW and Mercedes are precieved as having the best image, Audi isn't even in the running, yet. You're saying that Germans are buying more Audis because they are trendy and not because they're the best cars? Interesting.

    Finally, I have one main fact that points to Audi not being the "runt": they are Volkswagen-owned, which is the largest German car company to date. If anything, Audi has the most on its side. BMW is on its own, and Mercedes-Benz is a partner with one of the unsuccessful-of-late American companies (Chrysler).

    We're talking about luxury brands here, not entire companies, but since you brought it up...DCX is larger than VW no matter what. Don't know where you've been but the Chrysler arm of DCX has been very successful as of late you'd have to living a cave not to see the vast difference between Chrysler and their U.S. counterparts Ford and GM. It's Audi parent VW who is just now starting to show a turnaround both here and at home while Chrysler has been on that path now for almost 2 years now.

    The fact is that VW is in the same recovery room as Chrysler and Mercedes. VW and Mercedes have both had a savior in Audi and Chrysler respectively for remaining profitable while they (MB/VW) get themselves together. Now tell me different.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I've told you this before, and I'm saying it again. I am completely open to all luxury brands except:

    Infiniti - still not enough refinement (used to Audi interiors ha)

    Jaguar- everything except for their high-end models are a disappointment

    Volvo - I enjoy them on road trips (especially the V70/XC70), but wouldn't consider owning one

    I have owned Saabs, Acuras, Audis, Lexuses; test-driven and enjoyed Porsches, Mercedes-Benzes, Land Rovers, Volvos, Volkswagens. I can whole-heartedly say that Audi has offered the best overall package attractiveness.

    Wow! Chrysler has been recovering for two whole years! What an eternity!

    On a more serious note, you should acknowledge that Volkswagen needs less help than DCX. Bentley is more profitable than it has ever been; Audi has made Lamborghini almost as popular as Ferrari even with two models, Volkswagen/Audi are churning out interesting models throughout their model lines when the 300C/Charger/Magnum, Crossfire, and Caliber/Nitro are the only interesting DCX models.

    Yes, Volkswagen has made a couple blunders (Phaeton), but I saw a Phaeton in a parking lot last week and it is a very handsome car. The only real reason it's not selling is because you can get a better version of it (A8) with a better badge for $4,000 more. If the Phaeton and A8L swapped badges, I can guarantee Audi would have a hit as much as the A8 has been.

    Here are cars that I adore, just to let you know:

    MBZ CL500/600/65 AMG, CLK, E Touring (sedan is a bit common around here), SL, S.

    BMW 3, 6, 7, X5, M models.

    Lexus IS, GS, RX (my wife has one), new LS, LX.

    Jaguar XJ, XK.

    Volkswagen Passat, Phaeton, Golf (Rabbit for 2007 in U.S./Canada), Toureg.

    Acura RSX/TSX, TL.

    Land Rover Range Rover Sport, Range Rover.

    Maserati lineup.

    Aston Martin lineup.

    Cadillac CTS, 2007 Escalade, STS.

    Porsche Cayman S, 911 lineup, Cayenne S/Turbo/Turbo S, Boxster.

    Lincoln Navigator Platinum.

    As you can see, there are plenty of cars that I would be glad to own. I can buy a BMW or Mercedes-Benz, but I choose to root for the underdog. I don't see anything wrong with that. Audi is just as good, but most Americans don't seem to recognize the fact.

    The same goes to Acura, Cadillac, most Infinitis, Jaguar, Lexus, Saab, Volvo, and a few Lincolns.

    *My list isn't in any particular order.*
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I don't understand the point of this exercise. Have you not read any of my post here on Edmunds? Why do you think that I only see Mercedes-Benz? It goes without saying (if you'd read anything else I posted) that I like all cars in general and nearly all brands, but I don't make totally ridiculous statements about some of the brand that I'm not exactly crazy about.

    On a more serious note, you should acknowledge that Volkswagen needs less help than DCX. Bentley is more profitable than it has ever been; Audi has made Lamborghini almost as popular as Ferrari even with two models, Volkswagen/Audi are churning out interesting models throughout their model lines when the 300C/Charger/Magnum, Crossfire, and Caliber/Nitro are the only interesting DCX models.

    IMO, to make such a distinction as to who needs the most help is just plain stupid when both VW and DCX both need help. In this country it is VW that needs the most help. They've been losing money for the past 2 years and DCX has make a profit for the same amount of years. All this about Bentley, Lamborghini's profits doesn't amount to a hill of beans when VW can't make money from their core brand which is what they're having a hard time doing.

    ...Volkswagen/Audi are churning out interesting models throughout their model lines when the 300C/Charger/Magnum, Crossfire, and Caliber/Nitro are the only interesting DCX models...

    Well you obviously aren't looking at the whole picture from DCX, only the Chrysler models that you find "interesting". Not going to argue about who finds what more interesting because there are many models from the DCX empire that I find more interesting than any amount of VW-based Bentleys.

    Though for the record, I have said years ago right here on Edmunds that it is arguable that either VW or Ford has the best collection of premium brands and that corporate wide no one could compete with all these brands, if those brands are firing on all cylinders. Up until now all VW's brands haven't been,m but they seem to be now, but at the expense of VW, again until just within the past year have they turned things around at the core VW brand. You act as though VW was doing so good all this time when they clearly weren't. They've had just as hard a time worldwide a DCX has had.

    Yes, Volkswagen has made a couple blunders (Phaeton), but I saw a Phaeton in a parking lot last week and it is a very handsome car. The only real reason it's not selling is because you can get a better version of it (A8) with a better badge for $4,000 more. If the Phaeton and A8L swapped badges, I can guarantee Audi would have a hit as much as the A8 has been.

    True, a very handsome car and a brilliantly engineered one, but one of the dumbest marketing moves ever made. Who in their right mind thought VW could be able to sell enough 66-90K cars to warrant engineering one? It didn't sell because VW is not a luxury car maker.

    For what its worth I like far more cars that are on your list, you've listed the most mainstream cars on the market.

    M
  • jim2727jim2727 Posts: 7
    I asked AudiTalk what the weight of the RS4 (US model) was. They replied 3957 pounds or 1795 kilograms. I hope this is wrong because that is way too heavy. :cry:

    If it is true, I wonder if Audi decontented the RS4 for the US market to offer it at a lower price than the European version.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Why do you think that I only see Mercedes-Benz?

    I do not think you only see Mercedes-Benz! I was proving to you that I don't only see Audi.

    I don't really understand what you mean when you say "...you've listed the most mainstream cars on the market." Are you being completely serious? I couldn't keep from laughing. I sincerely had no idea that Aston Martin and Bentley were mainstream brands. I always thought those were the Toyotas, Hondas, Fords, etc? (hah just kidding I know what you meant)

    Maybach is not interesting in the least. Mercedes-Benz has created a monstrosity, and the motto of Maybach should be "The Difference Between Taste and Money". I have never seen such ugly cars for over $300,000- just think: for less than half the price, you can get the sexiest car in the world (generally regarded), the Aston Martin V8 Vantage ('07).

    If you think the Phaeton was a dim witted business move, talk to me about bringing back the Rabbit nameplate for the U.S. and Canada instead of Golf. Hmm... I wonder if it ever occurred to them that most men don't want to be seen in a Rabbit? This is possibly a way for Volkswagen to attract more American buyers to the Audi A3! :P

    You have to recognize, however, that Volkswagen has done very well this year and last year. The Jetta has done better than they expected, I'm *sure* the GTI is on back-order, and Passats are a-dime-a-dozen around Chicago.

    I've even seen four Phaetons in the last week- the most I've ever seen! :surprise:

    They've had just as hard a time worldwide a DCX has had.

    Really? I haven't noticed them doing poorly worldwide. It's been mostly U.S. operational problems- and the Phaeton was a project that costed more than it brought in. In other parts of the world (Europe, Asia), the Jetta, Golf, New Beetle and Toureg diesels are doing commendably well.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I'm sorry to say that the weight isn't on audiusa... but I'm sure this was a typo.

    A model based on the A4 wouldn't way 400 lbs less than an A8L, ASF or not!

    I would say it's more like 3500 pounds, especially because 420hp can propel the little sedan from a standstill to 60 in 4.6 seconds. That's M5 territory! (BMW's released stats say 4.7 for the M5, which is modest I'm sure, but I don't think the RS4 is much slower. The RS4 is faster than both the M5 and M6 around the Nürburgring.)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I do not think you only see Mercedes-Benz! I was proving to you that I don't only see Audi.

    Did I ever say you saw just Audi? No. This all started with the silly assumptions about Mercedes and what they'll do as far as pricing is concerned on new models.

    You have to recognize, however, that Volkswagen has done very well this year and last year. The Jetta has done better than they expected, I'm *sure* the GTI is on back-order, and Passats are a-dime-a-dozen around Chicago.

    Now earlier when I stated that Chrysler had been doing well for the last couple of years you saw that as a joke, yet the above is supposed to mean something? Ok. You're saying the exact same thing about VW that I said about Chrysler. Face it, both VW and Chrysler have had a hard time and neither has any room to breathe easy which is why I said it really silly to get into a shouting match about who needs the most help.

    I don't what to think of VW bringing back the Rabbit nameplate just yet, it may or may not work. Either way the Golf/Rabbit won't outsell the Jetta because Americans have a condition that prevents them from buying hatchbacks of any kind it seems.

    Really? I haven't noticed them doing poorly worldwide. It's been mostly U.S. operational problems- and the Phaeton was a project that costed more than it brought in. In other parts of the world (Europe, Asia), the Jetta, Golf, New Beetle and Toureg diesels are doing commendably well.

    Then I suggest you venture off Edmunds. You'll find that VW's recovery just started last year and I'm talking on a worldwide scale. So far they're doing well this year also, but that wasn't the case as recently as 2004. Just because you say the cars are selling doesn't mean the profits are there either sales don't automatically = profits when a company has other problems.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Could we please stop this nonsense?

    I have something more interesting to say: on Monday evening, I was driving by my local Autohaus Mercedes-Benz (the name of the dealer), and there was a black GL450 in front. I am impressed with most of the new Mercedes-Benzes (S, CLS, updated E and CLK, 6.2 litre AMG models), but the new GL is very underwhelming.

    It not only looks like they stretched an ML and called it a day, but they also threw in Mitsubishi Montero-esque rear light clusters! Someone must tell Mercedes to make the slight stripe in the middle of the rear lights into a circle, or just make the top half white and the bottom half red (á la BMW X5).

    I've never admired any Mercedes-Benz SUVs in terms of looks, (the G-Wagen is different, though) and the GL does not change my stance. Mercedes-Benz could've put some design inspiration into it- next to the fabulously executed new Escalade, the GL looks un-glamorous, and un-Mercedes.

    It does have one thing going for it: it's $2,000 less than the Escalade, and that means it's about $10,000 less than the Lexus LX470. Although the LX, in its last years, is still an interior design leader and has a ton of presence on the road, I'm sure this will bring Lexus to lower the price of its next LX (even if it is bigger than the GL by a bit).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Could we please stop this nonsense?

    Well I didn't start this ESF.

    Anyway I guess we just disagree on the GL from a looks point of view. A Mercedes doesn't have nor is it supposed to have the "bling" factor like a Cadillac IMO. A Mercedes is more subtle and classier while the Caddy is brash and what not. Just how I see it. My problem with the GL is that it that they didn't much for the interior compared to say a nicely trimmed ML500. There are a few upscale touches, but not much more than your average ML500.

    The Lexus LX is nothing more than a Toyota LC in better clothing IMO and it is beyond dated so I don't really think much of it. That thing needed a re-design 10 years ago.

    M
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I'm hoping to hear stuff about the RS4 here, but we're way off topic talking about what SUV's Lexus and MB are selling and general car discussions. There's plenty of other places to do that and you folks need to argue elsewhere.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    If you look at the updated LX470, it has aged incredibly well- it looks more up-to-date than the GL450 to my eyes.

    Besides, you must step into the LX's fabulous interior if you think the GL's isn't good enough. Also, the Land Cruiser is quite a nice car- I can't think of a bad thing about it besides the obvious gas mileage.

    The Escalade isn't too brash- it has just enough tasteful chrome accents to make it look like an urban luxury SUV.

    Back on topic...

    Does anyone know how long the RS4 is going to be in the U.S? I hope it's not just one year like the RS6- the RS4 has the potential to sell well with its relatively low price ($8K more than C55, $10K more than M3).

    With high-volume products like the Q7 and (relatively high-selling) TT coming out this year and next year, along with high-image cars like the S6, S8, RS4 and R8 this year/next year, Audi will basically double the attractiveness of their lineup.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well we obviously disagree on the LX470's its about as tired and warmed over as a SUV can get to me. Its an antique.

    Yeah Audi will spruce up the attractiveness of their lineup big time, but will that equate to more sales? The S6, S8, RS4 and R8 are all niche models and the boom sales days for SUVs days are numbered if gas prices keep going up.

    Agree on the Cadillac.

    One thing has to be said here though, not even you can deny that Audi waiting until the end of a platforms life to bring out the best variant isn't smart at all.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yeah Audi will spruce up the attractiveness of their lineup big time, but will that equate to more sales?

    "With high-volume products like the Q7..."
    "...along with high-image cars like the S6, S8, RS4 and R8..."

    I didn't imply that the S6, S8, RS4 and R8 were high volume. I merely stated that they were high image- and would attract more image-conscious buyers to Audi's showrooms.

    I said the Q7, TT, etc. were going to sell.

    Well we obviously disagree on the LX470's its about as tired and warmed over as a SUV can get to me. Its an antique.

    Wow, you say this, and the LX was just updated four months ago. It doesn't look the least bit tired- the design is quite handsome, unlike the homely, underwhelming design of the Mitsubishi Montero-esque GL. The LX is also standard with a lot more options than the GL450, which justifies its higher price (and it's slightly bigger).

    I do agree that Lexus is overdue for a redesign there- but it doesn't look bad, or old, as it is.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Wow, you say this, and the LX was just updated four months ago. It doesn't look the least bit tired- the design is quite handsome, unlike the homely, underwhelming design of the Mitsubishi Montero-esque GL. The LX is also standard with a lot more options than the GL450, which justifies its higher price (and it's slightly bigger).

    Then we disagree. Splattering a new shade of makeup on a pig does not an "update" make. The LX is as tired a SUV as anything on the market. I wouldn't care if the LX drove itself the design has expired years ago.

    If you read my reply closely I asked if you thought Audi's upcoming lineup would lead to more sales? I didn't say that you implied anything.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    You really made it sound like I implied- it seemed like you were telling me that the S6, S8, RS4 and R8 weren't going to sell in high volumes. That I already knew.

    It's not that the new GL is ugly, but it's just lukewarm- hot on the heels of the new S-Class, Mercedes-Benz could've put so much more design into it. It is possible that the S-Class tired the designers out! :P

    I still think the RS4 is a relative bargain, especially compared with the likes of the old RS6, the S-Type R and the C55- it's $66,000 and gets 0-60 in 4.5 seconds! (if you really want bargain, get a Lotus)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well to each his own regarding the GL.

    I agree about the RS4, its an exciting car that has this segment for the moment. The new M3 is at least a year off ditto for the C63 AMG.

    M
This discussion has been closed.