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Diesel Fuel Economy and chips

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  • jmh577jmh577 Posts: 1
    I own a 2004 Crew Cab 4x4 with the LLY motor. It has 75,000 miles on it and it is still stock. In the summer on the level with minimum stopping at 60 mph I can get 20 mpg. I am looking at purchasing a fifth wheel RV with the weight of between 8000 and 9000 lbs. Can anyone tell me about how much my mileage will drop. I know that the faster I travel over 60 the more it drops without a tow vehicle. I only get about 16 at best at 70 mph. I have thought about installing a Bully Dog and am also interested in anyone who has experience with them and how much it improved their mileage.
    Thank You
    John
    Ada, MI
  • jim314jim314 Posts: 491
    Since you report the odo reading in kilometers (km) I assume that you are in Canada. So the 27 mpg is 27mpgC = 27 / 1.2 = 22.5 mpgUS. Right? Of course this is still very good for a 3/4 ton truck.

    Isn't fuel in Canada sold by the liter (L)? And do the odometers in Canada read in km only? So you convert L to galC and distance in km to mi. Right?

    Do Canadians usually report fuel use in liters consumed per 100 km driven (L/100km)? Could you give some raw data and show how you do your calculations to get mpgCanadian?
  • I have a 2008 F250 6.4L Diesel with the 20"wheels and about 4000mile to date and my day to day average fuel mileage is about 11.8mpg. I drive about 60% highway / 40% city. I've read many that say their mileage is the same as mine but then there are those that are getting much better. I will have to say that it is hard to believe after driving mine. I read that the 3rd build cycle will be installing 3:55 and a taller front air damn.... http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news/ford/superduty/jobthree/jan08change.html

    My F250 is having a multi check engine light problems that have no fix available at this time so Im looking into Lemon Law but I will be looking into replacing it with another just like I already have.
  • hd82hd82 Posts: 13
    I have an '07 250 Crew 8' bed XLT with the diesel, I drive about 70% Hwy - 30% city. It now has 14,000 miles and getting 16mpg since the day I bought it. Everything left stock, stay around 70 - 75 mph, no payload or trailer. I do use Diesel Kleen with every fill up. I believe the biggest killer of MPG's is driving habits, if people can keep their foot off the floor and afford the soot, MPG's are better, just my opinion.
  • I HAVE A 08 F350 DULLY 20,000 MILES ON IT. MY GAS MILEAGE IS 10.4 AROUND TOWN AND 10 ON THE HWY. MY TRUCK WOULD BE GOING DOWN THE HWY AT 65 MPH AND WOULD LOSE ALL POWER GO DOWN TO 10 MPH I WOULD HAVE TO PULL OVER AND TURN OFF THE MOTOR FOR ABOUT 5 MIN. TO COOL OFF, THEN I COULD GO. MY PULLING MPG ARE AROUND 7. MINE OPINION WOULD BE TO STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM A FORD WITH THE NEW 6.4 IN IT.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,938
    steery-eyed gazer, the difference in energy required to get the wheel rolling relates as much to the wheel's shape/size as its weight. even if the weight is identical there's a big energy/momentum cost for the bigger aluminum wheel because the wheel's mass is further from the axle. same is true for the bigger tires - cost/penalty even if they are the same weight.
    ballpark: if the wheel/tire combo is twice as tall as the stock combo, and about the same weight, it's going to cost at least twice the energy to get rolling (and stopped) compared to the stock tires. (you'll wear out the brakes faster too.)
  • Has anyone tried Motor Kote yet in a 6.0 ltr Diesel?? It's an additive.
    saw the web site and am a skeptic. I will not use Lucas anymore in the winter ... it is way too thick and hard on turbos and injectors. This other stuff looks good but is it???
  • I'm interested in hearing from owners of the new 08 Ford F-250 with the 6.4 liter Diesel engine. I'd like to know what kind of mileage city and highway you are getting. Also what gear ratios you are running. I'm considering a new 08 and want to know more about the fuel economy of the new 6.4 in a F-250 4x4 supercab short bed with 3:73 gears, auto trans. Thanks.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Try these current discussions for that info:

    Ford F-Series Real World MPG Numbers
    2008 Ford Super Duty

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • pipfindrpipfindr Posts: 34
    I have 4 friends who have bought an '08 f350 most have crew cab short box. they get 8 to 9 mpg. All regret giving up their 06 and 07's if you can find an 07 you are way better off
  • hello,
    i own a 2000 f250 4x4 with 7.3l and 3.73 gears, i have made some changes like a 4" no exaust,k&n filter and a tuner with three settings , 30 70 and 105 hp.i was getting about 18.5 empty, after some research and some trials i came up with some changes in my fuel rail,and a week ago i bumped mine to a whopping 26mpg,i am working on a turbo spool wheel that will draw more air and i think that will increase 2 to 4 more miles per gallons, if you are interested in my changes i will be happy to help you, david
  • pipfindrpipfindr Posts: 34
    tell me more.... what did you do to the fuel rail?
  • after i read so much about the fuel pressures in the 7.3l and ford is the only one who has introduced a pressurized fuel rail, it is starving #6 and #8 injectors,that is why they make more noise than other diesels, what i did is installed a pressure regulator and got rid off three of the check valves, not only it got substantially quieter but it has better acceleration,since the fuel is better atomized,.and got 8 mpg.
  • alaingalaing Posts: 1
    I have a 2008 f-250 super duty with 6.4 diesel twin turbo if I put an afe cold air intake filter will it void my warranty from ford motor
  • Have you spoken to ford about these modifications and the ramifications? How long have you been driving with these mods? I have the noise you spoke of and all I found out was a short in the wiring harness. New harness, same noise. I am planning on installing a chip in the near future. I would like to know more details on where the check valves are located and where I can get a pressure regulator and the installation specifics.
  • saeidensaeiden Posts: 3
    dolphin1963,
    I'm a new member myself, I became one tonight after reading your post about increasing you MPG an additional 7.5 MPG. I am very interested in knowing how you did this especially because I payed $3.79 per gallon this evening for some of the green stuff.

    I have a 1999 F-250 7.3L, 4x4 Crew Cab Lariet edition with 4:10 gears (not as good as yours for millage I know but I am hoping to squeeze a little more out of her). The only mod I have right now is stock size K&N filter, which does help a little. I would love to put a lot of mods in her but the money is tight and from what I have read so far I'm not seeing a lot of bang for the buck in a new air intake, exhaust, and chip alone.

    I've had my beauty coming up on three years now and pretty soon the original exhaust will have to be replaced after 186,000+ miles on it. She's plenty broke-in.

    I am interested and would like your help.

    saeiden
  • i have the same truck with a cold air kit, 5" straight pipe and bully dog 6 position chip and i runs great. i am curious what you did and how easy it was and the cost of it. you get get mileage, but i cannot get that good
    thanks
  • gymnasiagymnasia Posts: 1
    i see that you put all those part to get extra 8 mpg
    is that on the 6.4
    and how big of a job is it and did anybody else did it
  • saeidensaeiden Posts: 3
    So I'm still waiting for some feedback from [dolphin1963], just wondering what happened to you buddy.

    Also, does anyone have any knowledge about the Edge Juice with Attitude on the 7.3L? I talked to one guy who is selling his Edge Juice with Attitude because he is getting a newer truck and he claims he leaves it on level 5 all the time a gets 22mpg on the highway and around 16-18 in the city.
    Can anyone confirm or deny that, or is he just blowing smoke?

    Thanks,

    saeiden
  • jsticherjsticher Posts: 1
    I just bought a 2002 F250 7.3L crew cab SWB 4x4 lariat. Truck had 138,000 miles on it when I bought it Tuesday in Dallas Texas. I drove it home to Houston and arround town for the first two days on the fillup I did just south of Dallas. The guy I bought the truck from gave me a Edge Evolution programmer that he had bought from a friend (who traded his 7.3L in on a 6.0L) and said that he had never used it on the truck I bought from him. I deciced to put the "tow"(level 1) tune on the truck. I went and filled the truck back up and calculated 14.5 mpg running from Dallas to Houston and arround town. I went out at this point to I-10 and ran the truck 34.1 miles to another gas station. I reset the avg. computer when I started and it said that I was getting 26.5 mpg. I refilled the truck having put the 34.1 miles on it and only got 1.25 gallons of fuel in it. That is 27.2 mpg on paper! I thought the computer avg. on the truck was screwed up till I did the math myself. It's not much of a test but if it gets over 20 arround town and over 25 on the highway I will be shocked and happy all at he same time. I will try to post more as I drive it more. There are no other mods on this truck. LT 285/75-16 Michelin tires.
    I set the cruise control on 70 for my test run.

    Joe
  • dexlhilldexlhill Posts: 1
    No matter what I do city or highway I seem to get only 4.1 MPG. Does anyone have any suggestions. Others tell me I should be getting 17 or better unloaded. What possible causes might there be particularly on the highway. I know I can increase the air filter and exhause as well as retune the PROM, but there must be some other cause before I make other changes.
  • saeidensaeiden Posts: 3
    First off Mr.jsticher you need to go to the Ford dealer and have them diagnose your truck and then have them send the specs to a dealership near Mr. dexlhill.

    jsticher, if you would do all of us a favor and keep tracking your MPG using hard numbers and a calculator (the mileage displayed by truck really is not that accurate, if yours is lucky you). If I could ask you to do a little more work I'm curious just how much better your mileage is because of the Edge Evolution. Would you be willing to run a tank on stock settings to find out? This is the only way for any of us to get a really understanding of what works, thanks.

    dexhill, all I have to say is WOW! I've never heard a 7.3L getting such poor mileage.... feel for you man. I'm getting around 12MPG right now with my 1999 7.3L and I'm feeling it I can't imagine how tick off you must be. You didn't mention if you just got the truck or if you've had is a while and it has always been like this or if it just started lately. Having a 4:10 rear end like mine vs. 3:73 rear end like our buddy Mr. jsticher does make a difference but not that significant. My truck for example will never see 22MPG because of my 4:10 rear end, however I might get up to 18 by the summer with some of the mod's I'm planning (air intake, exhaust, and programmer). Sounds like you have something very wrong with you truck to be getting that kind of mileage. I would recommend getting professional help. Is you Catalytic converter plugged? Is you truck unusually loud even for a 7.3L? If so you could have injector/ regulator problems. Does your tranny slip? If so your torque converter is probably bad. A bad converter won't lock up after 45Mph and your tranny will be running continually in fluid drive. The transfer rate of power from you engine to your drive line is around the mid to upper 80% where as the converter locking up gives you 100% transfer of power.
    I certainly hope you figure it out, either way it sounds like you will be spending some money to solve the problem. You can't afford not to figure this out sooner rather than later. Good luck.

    saeiden
  • north52north52 Alberta, CanadaPosts: 8
    John, I have a '05 F-350 with Ford's 6.0 liter Powerstroke. I bought it for the primary purpose of towing our 32ft 9500lb (dry/curb weight) 5th wheel RV. This truck handles the job very well. To date, I have made no modifications to the engine or drivetrain - I don't think I ever will. An alternate chip or reprogramming etc, will most likely provide a potential increase in power, but I have arrived at the conclusion that the (small) gain is not worth the expense or potential trouble. Understanding the basic rules of physics, you will realize that almost every engine mod will correspond to a decrease in fuel mileage. It's just a simple rule of use and conservation of energy. Input more fuel (and correspondingly, air) and the result will be more power - but this has to be at the cost of lower fuel mileage. There is no free lunch. The 6.0 liter is factory rated at 325HP and 575ft,lbs. of torque - this is fully adequate for all towing conditions that I have encountered. This includes drives through the Rocky Mountains. My two cents worth - I'm sticking with the factory design and settings!
    (P.S. - my best towing mileage is - at best - about 60% of my "non-towing" mileage, but this is highly variable because I do not drive on the same terrain with the trailer as without; let alone the same speed!)
  • jond09jond09 Posts: 17
    Well I agree with your physics conclusion but you are leaving out a very large variable. Yes when adding more fuel and air your power will increase. But you are not only making more power, you are making you engine run much more efficiently in the process. The combination of more fuel and air(at the right time) along with allowing the gases exit faster with free flowing exhaust your engine is much more efficient. All factory diesel engine are de-tuned from the factory to meet EPA regulation. They could easily make your truck get 25-30mpg or more with the same power. But where would that leave the Goverment, Oil companies, and the EPA. Money talks and they have lots of it.
  • Your calculations are wrong unfortunately. I upgraded my dodge (06-5.9l) with a cold air intake and free flo exhaust and went from 23-17mpg but I believe that was due in large part to the fact that I installed 20" tires/wheels. I bought the workhorse module and am back up to 28mpg. The module is different than a chip because it actually peaks your stock computer settings to give max performance without the dumping of fuel as a chip does. Thus, no black smoke cloud. It doesn't give quite the power of some chips out there but is more than sufficient to compliment the stock power of the dodge. Think of it in terms of less fuel pedal to do the same job as before. I'm a believer!
  • jond09jond09 Posts: 17
    I also have a 06 5.9. 6"lift 38"tires and my calculations are not wrong because they are based on the combination of all the things you are describing. That is how you make power and allow your motor to run more efficiently. Doing one without the other you will never see the true benefits as with all together. And exactly as you describe you will make things less efficient. By adding a cold air intake and exhaust you are getting more air and getting the air out faster but without more fuel it does you no good. It will lower your EGT's and you might see a very small power increase but nothing like when adding more fuel along with this things. This goes back to the basic of any motor gas or diesel. I would bet that in some way the module is effecting your fuel. It might not be "dumping" fuel but it has to be getting more. Maybe the length of the injecter pulse or just more fuel out of it. Or both at the same time. I have an intake, exhaust and a chip and even with 38" tires I am still getting better fuel mileage than when it was stock. Yes I can blow black smoke if I want to but with it on a lower setting it doesn't smoke and gets better fuel mileage than stock. But even the lowest setting is still adding fuel
  • Yes the module adds fuel, but in proper proportion to the amount of air it's getting. It doesn't give the engine more than it can burn, thus, no black cloud. I know a chip gives more power but the module peaks the stock computer to run at max efficiency so you are less likely to wreck drivetrain components. I would love a chip but as my truck is still under warranty, I opted for the module as it is undetectable. I was told by the dealer as soon as I bought it that a chip would void the warranty. I may have replied to the wrong guy as well!lol There was a ford guy saying that chips made fuel mileage worse. Mine gave me 11mpg better.
  • jond09jond09 Posts: 17
    I think we are on the same page now about how everything works. What module do you have? Is it a downloader, like superchips? I have an edge juice with moniter. But also something to think about is that its illegal for a dealer to not warranty your vehicle just because you have a modification. It has to be a direct effect or cause of the problem for them to not warranty it. They are going to tell you lots of stuff thats not true because they ultimately don't want to pay for anything they don't have too.
  • gordgord Posts: 5
    Did you ever get the name of the module that steergazer had installed?
  • jond09jond09 Posts: 17
    No not yet. I want to know because he said he got 11mpg increase which is extremely hard to believe. Maybe he's going off the digital read out and not actually mpg.
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