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Diesel Fuel Economy and chips
Does anyone have any insight about chips and fuel mileage increase. I do a little towing not much but drive my 05 Ford 6.0 PS to and from work ona daily basis 80 miles rt and with the price of fuel I am wondering if it makes sense to chip it out for higher MPG?
Any thoughts and real world experiences?
Thanks
Any thoughts and real world experiences?
Thanks
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I am new to the Forum and have a big decision to make soon. Wanted to get some opinions from as many members as possible. I live in Michigan and I travel all over the state doing warranty service home repair on manufactured homes. I work on Redman, Commander, Fortune, Dutch, and Champion some times. The issue I have if my current truck (1995 CK 1500) and 20 ft 8ft wide trailer are getting me on avg. 7 MPG. Which is sick and taking my mileage income away from me. I get .50 a mile so the better fuel economy I get the more I take home. The trailer is a snowmobile trailer and not to practical for my job. I am looking to go two routes for new equipment for my business. I need a trailer / vehicle that can accommodate a slider door for height, and carpet/ Linoleum rolls that can be 15ft in lenght. I have been looking at two options:
1. A van that can get me up to 27 MPG at a full GVWR and at 55 MPH. Dodge claims this is absolutely possible! And at 70 MPH I am still getting 20.7 MPG, but for the most part I am on 55 MPH roads to service the new home owners for repairs. Here is the link for the Dodge Sprinter http://www.dodge.com/sprinter/low_operating_cost.html
This van has only been available in the states since 2002 and is fully built in Germany. I test drove one and was very impressed. It is a Mercedes Benz powertrain and had amazing power with such good MPG. They have a long 158-inch wheelbase models which gives me the length I need for carpet, ect...Also 73 inches of walk-through height that clears what I need to put slider doors ect in. Price with options just over $35,000.
2. Ford or GM diesel truck and a 16 ft V-nose trailer. I know I will not have the fuel mileage of the Sprinter but I will have a little more cargo room seeing how I have the truck and the trailer. The trailer alone would 16ft and taller than the van, and then the bed of the truck comes in handy a lot of the time. My wife wants me to get the truck so we have that extra vehicle, but I would not be able to afford a brand new truck and then buy a $6000 dollar trailer in addition. Real foggy part about this option is the fuel mileage? I would be towing 3500-5000 lbs across mainly flat areas of Michigan.
Consider: I drive an average of 31,200 miles a year and I get 7 MPG's with my current truck and trailer. Say @ $2 a gal my annual fuel cost of close to $9,000. 31,200 * .50 = $15,600 for fuel pay from my employer. With the Sprinter at say 21 MPG which is the LOW....my fuel cast would be come less than $3000 for a savings of AT LEAST $6,000 a year. That is $500 a month free and clear! Not to mention the repair cost on my truck and trailer and the missed work for those times. I have placed $2500 in my rig in the last 6 Months. Add that to the cost or savings and buying a Sprinter is a no brainier. Big question is what a Duramax Diesel can get me pulling 6000 lbs. And can I get a truck and trailer for under $35,000? I am sure I can but it will not be new as the Sprinter would be. Just wondering what option would be best.
Go with the Sprinter. It will get an honest 22-25 mpg. You can throw in some seats or a couch and use it on the weekends for a camper. They tow an honest 5000 lbs with double the mileage you are getting with the CK1500.
Good testimonial:
armchair67, "Dodge Sprinter" #100, 25 Nov 2004 5:29 am
Eventually I will chip my truck.
BTW, we travel the same type of terrain.....I'm in Elkhart, IN.....7 miles south of the MI border.
-PR-
03 Ford F350 SuperCrew KingRanch 6.0L Powerstroke
04 VW Jetta GLS TDI-PD
05 VW Passat GLS TDI
Thanks for your input. I did want to note that I do not need the Sprinter to tow a trailer as I can place all of my equipment in it as I would in option two with a trailer. The Sprinter claims to get an actual 27.4 MPG with a full GVRW at 55 MPH. I have a flyer I got at Home Depot when the dealer was promoting the Sprinter one weekend. I was amazed!! I did test drive the sprinter and immediately I could tell it was not a Dodge. Just had the emblems on it, but this baby was impressive. I am just trying to get a feel of opinions and trying to find out the same info the Sprinter dealers give out. True MPG's. I hear a lot on the trucks getting close to 20 MPG. Bottom Line is if I can only get 12-14 with a truck then I will probably go with the Sprinter due to the fact I drive at least 600 miles each week. So if a truck/Trailer gets me say 14 versus the sprinter at say 24 then that is 10 more miles for each gallon of gas I buy. So over the course of the year driving 30,000 miles it can become much more income in a hurry. Plus the Sprinter I would have to buy new, where spending the same amount of money on a truck and trailer I would more than likely have to go with a used truck. Thus not having the warranty and possible lowest maint cost the Sprinter would provide. I am not trying to make a case for the Sprinter just wheighing in on it all. I know the Sprinter has a 4x4 option but only available in Europe and a truck would give me that. Plus I am torn with getting the Sprinter as I spend that much money and not have a nice truck in the drive. That seems to be the wife's gripe about the van. But I tell her the van would be a revenue getter over a truck and trailer.
I get rolls of Lino at least once every other week and Carpet is rare for me. The Sprinter will make me be a better organizer and it will be tight getting all of my tools and then supplies. And that is where a little single axel trailer to tow could play in at times? Not real sure.
I guess I really need to find out what MPG I can get from what trucks so I can really make the fuel cost factor and weigh in all of the advanteges & disadvanteges from both options.
Thanks again for your input....no better way to find out than to ask the world of truck drivers.
What can you get on the open road with no trailer? My step son has that exact year and model. I asked him and he never checks the fuel, just has one of his hands go fill it from their big equipment tank. I had thought of getting one myself with a fifth wheel camper. He traded a 2001 7.3 power stroke for the 6.0 and says it will pull the long grade out of the desert with his big fifth wheel 10 miles per hour faster than the older Power Stroke. Plus it is quieter. It is my first choice if I buy a diesel truck. Got to get up to Portland Monday and drive that new Passat TDI, I am looking forward to that.
The truck in 100% hwy driving (a trip down to GA to visit my family this past Thanksgiving) I was able to squeak 23mpg out of the truck....but that was taking it easy....60mph 90% of the tank....in the truck: my wife and two kids (3yo and 4yo) and our luggage for 5 days, plus I have a CoverMaster E-300 fiberglass lid on the truck (made here in Elkhart, and I'll have to remove it when I get my 5th RV).
I generally average 18mpg in mixed driving, about 75C/25H. I can get as low as 13mpg in 100% city, but that is being really hard on the accelerator.....this truck will take a sports car off of the line with no problems at all.....but once it hits ~75mph, the sports car will easily take over. In fact, with the above mentioned 27' trailer, I was able to go from an emergency stop area on I-80 (to switch drivers with my wife) and get back out onto 80 in traffic, 0-60mph with 11,500lbs (or 5.5tons) 12 seconds......no kidding. That's 570lb/ft of torque for ya!
On the open road, running 75-80mph I get 19-20mpg hand calculated. I think that is pretty darn good for a truck that is 21' long and weighs 6500lbs. :shades:
I hope you enjoy driving you Passat down the coast. I've been able to get 43mpg out of mine, and only have 2100 miles on it, so a long way before being broken in. Speaking of that, I only have 19500 miles on my truck, so it too is a long way from being broken in and I'm sure its mileage will get a little bit better over the next few/ten thousand miles.
-PR-
03 Ford F350 SuperCrew KingRanch 6.0L Powerstroke
04 VW Jetta GLS TDI-PD
05 VW Passat GLS TDI
Hey...figured I'd post pics...haven't done that yet....
diesel!
DIESEL!!
DIESEL!!!
can you tell I love my cars?
To prevent this, you'd need to have Pyrometer (basically a high temperature thermometer) installed in the exhaust stream before the turbo. If you're pushing the truck hard (like towing heavy up a long high) you'll see the EGT start to climb. Once it starts approaching 1100-1200 degrees, you'll have to back off and let things cool down. Drive according to what the Pyrometer tells you and the engine will be fine.
Now of course there are other issues too - if you put in too strong a chip, you can develop too much torque for the rest of your drive train and then possibly experience drivetrain problems, etc.
On that note. If you have an automatic and especially if you're towing, you should have a tranny temperature gauge installed. Those long slow hill climbs raise the tranny temp too. Once transmission temps go above around 250 degrees the transmission fluid cooks and the friction modifier additives in the fluid become compromised. Tranny damage will result if you keep driving for any length of time on the burned transmission fluid. You need to flush it, and change all the fluid. How soon you need to flush depends on how hot it got.
He said it completely removed the turbo hesitation off the bottom.
Do Not trust what any dealership tells you regarding mileage!!!! It is always lower than what they say... IF they want to sell you that high of a priced vehicle, take it out for a day and run a tank of diesel through it on the freeway, and see what the darn thing gets EMPTY. Once again, do not trust speculation. With that being said, i shall speculate regarding a vehicle i once owned. I had a 1996 Ford E-350 Powerstroke Diesel Van. Yes they made them, i am not sure if they still do. I worked as a runner during rock concerts, ( basically chore boy/ limo driver in disguise. people don't suspect talent in a big van) so usually i hauled 6-15 people around town and on the freeway. I also used the van when our band when on the road, we had 6 people in the rig, and towed a Wells Cargo trailer, single axle, with band gear and lighting equipment. We probably had 5-8klbs worth of crap, and people weight, between trailer and people in the van. I got routinely 14-16mpg, with the lethargic Ford 3 speed with overdrive auto tranny. I normally towed on the freeway at 65-70mph with overdrive on, even though owners manual said not to, ( our trailer was pretty light). I believe running people around town/ to airport, i got 14-17 mpg, light load mainly freeway. I checked my mileage alot, every fill up. Motor had between 80k- and 100k while i owned it.
I have heard of Dodge Ram Non extended cab 5.9's with manual tranny getting unloaded 22mpg, but it has been word of mouth, and people normally exaggerate. The Sprinter may get high mileage if it is a lower displacement engine, but once again TEST DRIVE it like 300miles and fuel it up and CALCULATE the mileage, for your self..... NEVER EVER TRUST A DEALERSHIP.
The one fellow i know that has a Duramax 3/4 ton extended cab says he gets 20ish. To me 20 ish means i was expecting to get 20 but i really got 17-18 unloaded. Seems to me people pay $35 k then expect magic results, thus creating the need for exagertation when the truth hits. Maybe it perform as well as people state, i wish EPA would make large trucks state mileage claims.
DO NOT TRUST Dealer CLAIMS,... YOU are spending the money, take the dam Truck out, and run 3/4 of a tank of fuel through it. The dealer better let you because they cannot provide in writing actual mileage estimates, for they have NONE. Once again Check the mileage yourself.
I owned a 1996 Ford E350 van with 2wd and 3sp/w Od tranny and got 13.9-18mpg.
I would think the Dodge 2wd with a 6spd tranny would get the best mileage, or the Duramax with simililar tranny and drivetrain. They weigh the least.
Good luck
Drive the spinter and make sure it performs as they say it will.
Joseph
myles
Volkswagen Owners: TDI Models
kcram - Pickups Host
Not planning to put in a chip. Stock. Stock. Stock. Didn't actually "need" the diesel, but figured resale would be good and all my buddies say it's the coolest truck I've ever had. So far so good.
The pyrometer can be a little more difficult depending on what type of probe it has and the exhaust system configuration between the engine and turbo. However, you need to know if you have a "pre-turbo" gauge or a "post-turbo" gauge. That will determine where you'll mount the probe. I'm not familiar with the Duramax, however I assume this install should be similar to a Powerstroke. I prefer the "pre-turbo" gauge since that will show you any temp spikes the quickest and those spikes will be more extreme. A "post-turbo" gauge tends to be more stable and will not react as quickly, showing more of an average. There are two probe types, one will just clamp on using a large stainless steel worm clamp and the other requires you to weld a bung to the exhaust pipe. I prefer the clamp on type simply for the ease of installation and I have never heard anything negative about it, of course your experience could be completely different. If you're using a "pre-turbo" gauge, locate a suitable place where you can drill a hole into the exhaust header and install the probe. The preferred place on the Powerstroke seems to be on the drivers side where the header makes the bend from the exhaust manifold to go up toward the turbo. I'm sure the Duramax is different. If you're using a "post-turbo" gauge, then locate a suitable place on the downpipe as close to the turbo as you can get.
Installing these two gauges is a great way to help ensure you don't cook your turbo while towing. If I remember correctly, the Hypertech ran some pretty high EGT's in a 7.3 liter Powerstroke when run hard. May be a completely different story for the Duramax though. While you are at it, install a tranny temp gauge. Anytime you bump up HP and torque, the tranny can really take a beating. Especially at low speeds when the torque convertor isn't locked up.
I hope this helped.
BTW: Let me say that I have absolutely no interest in that business, whether financial or personal. I have never met any of the owners. They have been so great to deal with that I want to see their business grow.
You may post a web address of a commercial business that is appropriate to the discussion, such as an accessory supplier, as long as it is not your company or one you have a direct relationship/benefit with. You may not link to other message boards, chats, or forums.
kcram - Pickups Host
The name of the business is Diesel Injection Service. They are in Lubbock, TX. and maybe a couple of other places in TX. Click link title for their website.
On another note, I'm not sure why my email is private but I'll change it!!!
kcram - Pickups Host
I own a 2004 Dodge 2500 with a Cummins, I am running a 4" high flow exhaust using a power-module which I will not name here. With the installation of the power module I picked 85 hp and 275 ft. lbs. of torgue and I get 26 to 28 miles per gallon and my EGRs never go over 1050 degrees.
Oh, I tried the Super Chip Programmer on another truck of mine. We found out that most of the ECU units on the new diesels have a hidden resident program in the eprom that if the settings are changed in the factory chip with say a handheld programmer. After 90 to 100 days This resident program will come back in a wipe out the settings and change all the setting back to the factory default settings in the chip! And you would never know it until you started checking your milage. :surprise:
Cflowers
I recently purchased an '05 dodge 5.9l Q-cab 4x4 auto. what kind of set-up are you running. I'm interested in increasing mileage more than anything. I have @ 1200 miles on it now avg. 17.5 mpg hwy. Any info on brand,cost, ect would be appreciated. Thanks, Lee.
what brand controller is it? can you still get them on ebay?
Seems like you've sparked (well, maybe not sparked in a diesel) a bunch of interest. Understanding you're not endorsing the chip maufacturer, can you share the brand and model ? Help would be greatly appreciated
kcram - Pickups Host
I too have a 6.oL ford 250 which hasn't given me good milage since day one. I would be appreciative learning what you have learned. My research with various manuf. and even a friend who works for ford has not been very productive.
thanks for your input.
lpreville
kcram - Pickups Host
Thanks,
I own an '03 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel with 41,000 miles. I am a CPA and carefully monitor expenses, mileage, etc, particularly since I put myself thru college as a Chrysler mechanic. I recently installed a "chip" on the Ram. Mileage prior to the chip's installation averaged 17.2 mpg for the first 38,271 miles of ownership. SInce the installation of the chip mileage has increased to 25.2 mpg. I rarely "get on it", do not pull a trailer often, and drive nearly 100% highway. There is a noticeable power increase, although I rarely need it. I am unworried about exhaust gas temps as I dont push the engine, generally drive at or near the speed limit and don't need the power. I have actually found the last few yanks I am even driving more conservatively trying to coax this mosnter into 26 mpg!
Thanks,
Joseph
Please don't hold out the name of the chip. I've been looking for one and haven't really found one that I've liked, when it comes to gas mileage. Thanks for all your help.
Gary
I have put about 700 miles on it and seem to be getting 12 MPG. This is a mix of highway and city with most being city. My drive to work is 11 miles one way with about half being on the highway traveling 65 MPH. I have been keeping the RPM's under 2000 when on the highway. I was hoping for better mileage than this. I have been told several times it should get 17-19 MPG and on some occasions even 22 when all conditions are favorable. I have been told twice that the mileage may not be that good until it gets 12-14 thousand miles on the engine.
So, with that, what have you folks been getting for MPG? What do you think it should be getting. Did you notice a mileage increase after several thousand miles being driven?
I do not want to do any other alterations as far as the engine or "chipping". It already runs great and has PLENTY of power. I do plan on re installing a pyrometer gauge since the thermocouple and wires are already there.
Thanks for your input.