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Got an Upcoming Mod Project? Tell Us About It!

Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
edited March 2014 in Pontiac
This topic is for those of us with big ideas but temporarily small budgets.

We aren't exactly dreaming in this topic but the projects we are describing here might take 6 months or a year to see the light of day.

I'll start with the next post.

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I have an older Porsche 928, a 16 valve V-8. It's pretty fast and an excellent handler but by today's standards it could use more HP.

    Given that these Porsche V-8s have indestructible bottom ends and a nice roomy "V" between the "stand up" cylinder heads, as well as good space fore of the engine, I'm thinking that a Supercharger running about 6 psi would be perfect for this car.

    With any luck, the installation you see below should produce about 330 HP and plenty of low end grunt.

    image

    Cost? I'm estimating about $7,500, including a professional install.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    I've ALWAYS been a fan of 928s.

    Of course, I'd take the Texas approach and do a stroker Chevy small block (over 400 ci, probably 406), with aluminum heads and Accel DFI. And a nasty, lumpy cam and Flowmasters, so folks would know there was something strangely wicked hiding under the bonnet.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, I need something that I can drive everyday. And besides, you can build these motors to put out as much power as a Chevy and still have the compact size for a nice clean and attractive fit.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    a car with a Chevy small block every day?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Because as you spec'd it, it would be an animal to drive and would sound like a pile of bowling balls in a clothes dryer :P I want a very docile and tractible engine...which is why I like supercharging...you can crawl or you can wail.

    But no need for a Chevy...I have the car set up with a Y-pipe back of the header and a free-flow Ansa exhaust...it sounds GREAT, and with the whine of a supercharger, it would be dee-vine. Sounds very much like an American car right now but the firing pulses are just a little different than an American V8...and it revs faster and higher than say a stock pushrod engine.

    Some nut actually build the 928 engine up to 600 HP but I don't expect it is very tractable either.

    I'm really aiming for a very versatile car and decent fuel mileage.

    Also we have to think about the drivetrain...this has the engine in front, transmission and differential as a single unit in the rear...I don't think a big brute Chevy would hook up to the Porsche 5 speed, so we got big conversion problems here...

    Basically to run a Chevy I think you'd have to gut a complete C5 Corvette, which has a very similar driveline and rear suspension (GM, have you been peeking under 928s?)
  • fredmcmurrayfredmcmurray Member Posts: 215
    How do the CARB boys like that set-up, Shifty? Your local smog shop is gonna see all those hoses and send you on your way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It'll pass smog or I won't do it. Might have to go to a special referee. That's part of the delay.
  • fredmcmurrayfredmcmurray Member Posts: 215
    I think the only way you'll get by a referee is if you have a CARB expemption for the system. Being that the market for superchargers on 928s has to be pretty darn small, I'd suspect who ever developed the system didn't spend the many thousands of dollars it takes to get a CARB exemption.
    Your best bet may be to bring to some little smog shop that has never seen the engine bay of a 928 and hope they think that that is the way it's supposed to look. I'd go for black tubing connectors though, the blue ones really scream aftermarket. I have them on my car and that';s the only thing the guy challenged me on last time I had to go to a "Test Only" center. I managed to convince him that the piping was all stock (which was true) and that I replaced the cracked rubber factory hoses with blue silicone, which should be legal. After that it was just a matter of passing the sniffer test, which my car did easily.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, I need a strategy that's for sure. I could also go across the border to Nevada--which one clever Edmunds community member suggested should have the license plate slogan "Nevada----yeah, you can do that here"
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    is SO cool - my Ion Redline has a custom fabbed cold air system and a custom fabbed exhaust - when you get on it, the Eaton WAILS and turns heads - you can really hear it scream with the intake opened up. Way too much fun for a 41 year old guy...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I checked it out...I think as long as it passes smog out the tailpipe, everyone's cool with it. Question is, how do you know it's going to pass out the tailpipe until you build it? Probably if I don't mess with the injectors and have the catalytic hooked up I'll be fine.

    Next question is, do I spend $7,500 for a hotrod older 928, on a car I know is good, or sell it for $6,000 and add another $7,500 and buy a later model and faster stock 928? The newer 928s are not supercharged, but are 32V motors. Faster but way more complex as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, sounds like.
  • fredmcmurrayfredmcmurray Member Posts: 215
    Legally, they are supposed to fail you for any aftermarket mods that don't have an expemption number, regardless of what the sniffer says but many shops aren't too diligent about that. That's why I suggested getting black hoses if possible. Anything that peaks a shop curiosity is bad.
    You can ask for a pretest to check your emissions before doing the real run. I always do that with my MR2. Once I avoided having a "Gross Polluter" classification hung on my car by doing that. Once you have a GP label on the record, you have to go to the referee station to get it off. Downside is you'll have to pay for two tests each time.
  • fredmcmurrayfredmcmurray Member Posts: 215
    BTW, a wise man I know who has been around the car industry for decades has often advised people considering modifying their car that if you want a faster car, buy a faster car.

    And I misread your earlier question. You wanted to know how you would know before you decided to pursue this whether it would pass the sniffer.
    You'll probably have to rely on the outfit that makes that kit for their experience. I don't know enough about how 928s handle fueling and ignition at WOT, open loop conditions vs. partial throttle, closed loop conditions and how the system you are looking at affects that but generally, the smog test is run at light load, partial throttle, closed loop conditions so the engine essentially self tunes and the cat cleans up any off nominal output. I'd guess the sniffer test won't be a problem.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    if you want a faster car, buy a faster car

    That makes a lot of sense to me, unless you really want to enjoy the hobby aspect of modding your ride. Gets expensive either way (hobbies seem to do that).

    Btw, the title requirement is geared to forum improvements in the pipeline - we can't seem to stop modding around here either (and our speed has greatly improved just in the last six months!)

    Steve, Host
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well in general your remarks are all well taken but when you are dealing with very complex and exotic types of car, the situation changes a bit. Sometimes it is better to deal with a known entity. Fer instance, I know my car has a rebuilt 5-speed, new clutch, new synchros, new CV joints, new diff bearings, etc. Also I have an engine that burns no oil and has outstanding compression.

    Now to sell that off and get "new 928 Mystery Car X" for double what my car is worth---well, a used 928 is not a car you want to have to rebuild. Also the newer 928s go to an interference-fit engine (which mine doesn't have) and higher compression. So then I'd have to run premium fuel and sweat a broken timing belt or change it out every 30K, which is expensive.

    So there are plusses and minuses here. If I keep the old car, I save $250 a year on gas and maybe $600 a year on maintenance (easy).

    As for performance, a newer 928 puts out 326HP and my car stock is I believe 231. So presuming a 35% increase in HP with this blower, I might hit around 310HP without much stress on the engine.

    On the downside, I have the dreaded twin clutch disk, which grips like crazy but doesn't release quickly, making shifts a bit slow and clunky. But then I'm not drag racing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This company sells a conversion kit to install a Corvette or Camaro LT-1 engine in my Porsche 928!

    http://www.renegadehybrids.com/928.htm

    Looks like by the time you buy everything you need it's about the same price down the road.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but I need the conversion kit at $1,400, the clutch kit and options at another $1,400, a junkyard Lt-1 and all the accessories bolted to it for $2,500, then I need an aftermarket wiring harness to hook up the fuel injection and ECU, and then I need 30-40 hours labor.

    And then I have a Porsche with a 350 Chevy in it rather than a supercharged stock motor that's all neat and tidy and costs the same.

    If I SC the stock motor, I'll have more HP than a N/A stock LT-1 motor.

    But of course, one can punch out the LT-1 motor to correct that for not a lot of money.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    potential in an LT-1 - 383 stroker, induction, cam, heads, etc...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yes but then I have an animal car again which I don't want.

    I want a sleeper. I want to leave a $60K sportscar in the dust like you see in the viewing screen on the starship Enterprise when they punch the warp button.

    Oh, decisions, decisions...

    right now it's tax time, and I'm watching my supercharger dissolve before my eyes....at least temporarily.

    My friend Monty (you know, the one who blew up two C5 motors?) has a Porsche 914 with Corvette power. It's freaky-fast. He needed to flare it out all over to get a fit.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    can be installed and be VERY quiet.....great sleeper potential.

    You don't have to follow me in the "I'm from Texas, I have to have loud Flowmasters" train of thought....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Quiet is good, I like quiet. Well, I wouldn't say my car is quiet-quiet, but at idle or low speed it's very mellow.

    Maybe I can FIND an LT-1 or trade for it. I'll need an injected motor because I'll never pass smog with a carburetor. I bet with a late model injected motor I could pass 1980 Porsche emissions standards without a catalytic.

    California allows you to "upgrade" a motor (to a newer year) but theoretically then you have to pass the standards for the motor, not the car.

    Question is, will the crazy Russians who run the local smog station be able to tell a Porsche V-8 from a Chevy? I guess it depends how well you clad it with plastic pieces. But I could play it straight and probably be okay.

    It would be an interesting car to drive, but not technically so interesting as a SC ohc motor.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but Renegade Hybrids don't make a kit for that one. You'd have to pioneer it yourself and that's scary.
  • porschevyporschevy Member Posts: 9
    Hey Mr Shift Right, where are you located at? We have 2 converted 928's so if you are interested we can off some insight.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm in San Francisco Bay Area. Mine is the red one with the nasty exhaust noise. Do you have photos of the conversion you can post?

    Not too many red 5-speed 928s around anymore. Mostly I see white and gray and black.
  • porschevyporschevy Member Posts: 9
    This has both cars. The exhaust that you see is whisper quiet until you give it substantial throttle, and then it sounds mean. The yellow just hit 0-60 in 4.2 this weekend with substantial tire slip. I'm guessing high 3's with some drag radials.

    We are in Minneapolis, but if you have any questions let me know.

    --Adam
  • porschevyporschevy Member Posts: 9
    Oops, sorry.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The cars are awesome but I can't have hood scoops, that's defintely out.
  • wampa1wampa1 Member Posts: 2
    Just move to Florida. No emissions standards.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, that's TWO things I can't bear to do! LOL!!!

    I'm thinkin' "stealth" here....the car has to look stock.
  • porschevyporschevy Member Posts: 9
    The hood isn't necessary if you go fuelie, the lt-1 fits under there nicely, we went carb for lack of complexity.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, I'd need to have FI, I would never pass smog with carburators where I live. I think Renegade will sell the injection wiring harness, too. I'd also like the fuel economy that comes with FI.
  • porschevyporschevy Member Posts: 9
    Well, I guess with todays gas prices, fuel economy is pretty important, I only get about 7 miles to the gallon, and I try to put 110 in even though it runs perfectly well on 92. OUCH
  • ultimatedriverultimatedriver Member Posts: 74
    Achieved while travelling across state. This is after topping off with 93 the morning after running a 12.5 in the quarter the night before in my stealth 325i. Gotta love it.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,142
    DJ FunkMaster Flex has a new project - two, in fact. He's customizing a 2006 Ford Fusion and a 2005 Ford F-150 pickup, both to be part of his multi-city 2005 FunkMaster Flex Custom Car and Bike Show.

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  • purrnakpurrnak Member Posts: 4
    So I have a car which is fun to work on because it's so simple. yes you guessed it. A free hyundai pony 1986 1.4 yay for the lack of power.

    Okay the mods I've done to it.
    1. run elwire along the dash and behind the meters (yes blinks to the music)
    2. mp3 stereo
    - Massive amp
    - 2x 12" Sony Xplode subs (waste of money buy something else and save $)
    - 2x 9" 100 watt rms mids for the doors
    3. Cathodes around the spearkers, under the seats, in front of the gear shifter Reds
    4. Modified the ashtray to be the controler board for all the lights and to switch the amp on and off
    (Yes this is a pony I'm talking about now stop laughing)
    5. Cleaned up the engine and replaced all the hoses and most of the cables
    6. Battery swap unit that allows for 2 batters and the ability to recharge them both without having to switch anything over.
    7. stearing wheel and seat covers (yes the all important red seat covers and floor mats) Improved the look of the car by 1000x

    I say again, YES it is a pony I'm talking about.

    Mods I want to do to it. I'll split this into "has a purpose" and "No reason really"

    Has a purpose:
    a) I want to put a straight pipe exhaust in and change the muffler. Not sure how yet
    b) Change the muffler tip/exhaust pipe in some way. I want to split the pipe and redirect the outputs to be wider and distort the noise a bit. I'm still learning about how the exhaust system works.
    c) I want to add a new speaker box so it fills the trunk with a lift cover so I can stash stuff under it. Can't explain this one very well.
    d) I want to add mags but because it's a pony my options are pretty limited until I found out how difficult it would be to change the mounting system. Right now it looks like 4 x 100's but I found some nice mags that are 5x something. I also have to look into conversion plates.

    No purpose at all:
    a) Put a wing on it. Not one you just buy in a box, but one I make myself that only has a look and no real purpose (yes it's a pony)
    b) Once I get new rims I want to pain the calipers and light them up
    c) under lights
    d) flame thrower out the front (Not as hard to build as you might think)
    e) Lower the car ( will probably do this one but don't know enough yet )

    So um.. that's my big Toy Free junk yard parts makes this crap doable and fun.

    And yes I hear a lot of laughter.

    Any ideas what I could do to it? It's all a learning experience on this car so if I mess up, I don't really care. Oh and I beat quite a few cars off the line. I don't have the top spead of most civics but I can tick most of them off by getting across the intersection first.

    (okay you can stop laughing now.)
  • ultimatedriverultimatedriver Member Posts: 74
    Sounds like an extensive project. I wish you the best. I'm not so sure you need to necessarily go to a 5 lug pattern on those mags. The aftermarket is too huge. Try calling the company. You'd be surprised as to how much help they're willing to give you if you explain what your intentions are as to your project.

    As far as your performance is concerned, I'd make sure that the fuel system was running strong. For a mid-eighties Korean vehicle, that Pony is surprisingly reliable. Just go for Higher octane gas and clean up the exhaust system as best you can.

    Best of luck to you.
  • ponypowerponypower Member Posts: 2
    ok i also have a pony one of 3 and it had a snowboard spoiler on it a a light bar with 4 lights on it and a tip about 6 inchs in dia and a foot long also with a 1.4 liter revs to 7200 rpm no joke but im lookin how to put a 350 in to it so if u have any info how to do that i will very great full but ya good luck with your pony they never die just to let u no
  • sepulsepul Member Posts: 1
    Hey, this is my first post, and i was just wondering where i could find a used Integra Type-R chassis as the foundation of my project car. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
    -Sepul
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...that might not be so easy. I would google the Japanese Tuner Magazines or check your newsstand for classifieds in any specialty modding magazine. Also any Type-R clubs on the net. What's going to be hard is finding a Type R chassis that hasn't been worked or wrecked already. But I'm sure persistence will pay off.
  • ultimatedriverultimatedriver Member Posts: 74
    Maybe it would be more useful if you care to post what end result you're going for.
  • iroc_fieroiroc_fiero Member Posts: 3
    With only 4 production years, there aren't a lot of people who even recognize them on the rare occasion that they see one actually moving under its own power.... But the Pontiac Fiero makes a great platform to build on. I have an 88 model and a 305 TPI from an IROC-Z28 that I am going to swap into it.

    The car is a pretty popular choice for people making kit cars and replicas of European cars since it is the only mid engine in GM's modern line up. I haven't fully decided whether I would like to build a kit car or just swap the engine and be content that even with stock parts people don't know what they are looking at. But thats my project idea. For about 5K I can have a aggressive little coupe that should be capable of lifting the front tires off the ground. :surprise:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Is yours a 5-speed V-6 or???
  • ultimatedriverultimatedriver Member Posts: 74
    Did a Fiero for a customer about 2 years ago with the 4.0L version of GM's Northstar V8. Surprisingly enough, this GM motor is one of the most underrated and overlooked pieces GM my have ever had in it's roster.

    We dynoed it at 325.7 horses at the rear wheels at 7230rpm, and 285.5 lb-ft of torque at 5760rpm. Almost all of the go fast parts came from RSM Racing's online catalogue. You'll have to utilize a standalone engine managenemt system, but you'll have a car that can run with the best of them on a whim. Porsche, Ferrari, Viper, whatever.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Stand alone engine management is pretty tricky business for the average hobbyist, don't you think?
  • ultimatedriverultimatedriver Member Posts: 74
    I went up against a gentleman at Thunderhill in a 1996 MkIV Toyota Supra. His car was impeccably built with tastefull carbon fiber trim and backlit gauges. I'd list out the spec of the hardware of this car, but I don't want to catch carpal tunnel anytime soon.

    It was upon learning that his 16 year old son was the culprit who performed all of the tuning and upgrades on this car (with trips to the dyno shop)that I was truly amazed. From that point on, I never put it past anyone willing to pick up a wrench, as a hobbyist or otherwise, to do amazing things.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There's a guy over in "engine swaps" on this board asking some Fiero questions. Would you mind going over there to help him?

    thanks!

    Shifty the Co-Host
  • hotscot311hotscot311 Member Posts: 4
    researching doing an engine and maybe AWD swap from an eclipse GSX to my Avenger.
    Any info would be helpful. Thanx
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A national news magazine is looking to interview college students who has “pimped” out his/her ride Have you tricked out your car with big rims, outrageous stereos, wild paint jobs, spoilers, ground effects, neon lights, nitrous, the works . Please send an e-mail to [email protected] no later than Friday, June 9, 2006 by 5:00 PM PT/8:00 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and the make and model of the car you’ve “pimped” out.

    Steve, Host
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