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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • blastoblasto Posts: 2
    I am ...or may I say I will be...,(yeah that sounds better) the soon to be owner of an "05 black on black GOAT. The sales manager called me today and told me the car was ready for PDI and had NOBODY putting their behind in this particular machine. I can't wait since I am out of town and go home for the weekends.

    Here is my story: I had a 1985(225 hp) and a 1994 Mustang GT Cobra (245) and I have always been a Ford-Mustang guy. I recently decided to get a sportier car than the one I was driving, a 2000 Jetta 1.8T. I think I forgot the way a true muscle car feels and drives and the sense of power with the exhaust sound... :cry: I went to the nearest Ford dealer to get my Mustang since the newedly desing is impecable nice. I test drove it and felt the power once again. When I went to crush some numbers the dealer that I was reffered to by a buddy of mine change their attitude when we were talking about cutting some slack on the MSRP and incentives and rebates which they were non for the GT.

    I was mad at the fact that they know they have a gold mine and pretend that Mustang aficionados like me will pay 2K over invoice and just be a Laydown deal. I like shopping for cars, I like making the sales personel work for their commision and I do understand that dealers have to make money but I will fight the very last penny I could on this one.

    I saw the '04 GTO when it came out on the street. Bland. Said nothing. I have never had a GM car in my life and it was considered sacrilege in my family to do so. Then, I saw a movie called "The Last Ride" with one of my favorite actors, Dennis Hopper and I told my salef I should give it a try just to see it in a dealer nearby in "close caption" after the first glance at close distance and after seeing the interior I said "I gotta get me one of these!". The next day I went to the Buick,Pontiac dealer and had a test drive. Sorry for my family and Mustang fans. This car is something else. It put a smile on my face just starting it. The exhaust sound is incredible, the engine growls ans kind of tilt the car when you rev it. The interior was far superior than the new GT, at 70 MPH the car was doing way under 2000 RPM at 6 gear.

    I cut a deal with the dealer paying $31700 for the car plus the military incentive ($500.00) so really $31,200 and even if I had to pay full MSRP on this one unlike the Mustang dealer there was no markup. I can't wait until Saturday. Is there a way to post pictures in this forum? Sorry if I sound way too excited but I guess you guys understand the newbies...

    I had to wait a couple of weeks for this one but i will bet it will be all worth it. I am waiting to break in the engine...oh sweet!!!!!!! Rev it up guys!!! :D
  • Congrats on your new GTO! They are nice rides. I took an opposite tack though.

    Ford, like every manufacturer, has some dishonest and disreputable dealers. The Mustang is such a runaway hit some are definitely taking advantage of consumers. However, if the market will bear a higher than MSRP price, than that unfortunately is what many people will charge.....and pay.

    I fell in love with the new Mustang's combination of modern and classic styling, great performance, and total package. I shopped around until I found a dealer who was honest and fair. I ended up having to wait 7 weeks for my order, but I got it $1,000.00 below MSRP (~$27,000.00). I didn't get the automatic or the overpriced Shaker 1000. For me, the 4 grand difference in price, thousands less in cost of ownership, larger trunk, and unique styling clinched the deal. No argument that a stock GTO beats a stock Mustang GT, but that 4 grand extra can even those odds with a little help from Vortech, Steeda, and Eibach.
  • blastoblasto Posts: 2
    Oh man trust me, I still love the Mustang GT. It is an awesome car, no doubt about it and it delivers. PERIOD. I always complained about the Mustangs' interior ever since I had my older versions. I in fact still own one of the cars (1985) but is back in the island (Puerto Rico) and I have no intentions of bringing it here to GA. It gives me a reason to go back and hit the beach for a couple of days, is a nice ride.

    The feel for each car is different but I am in no case a street racer, I just like the feel of a true muscle car here in the States with my GTO and back in the island with my GT. I will disagree with anybody either trying to put the Mustang GT or the GTO down. They are an American Tradition. The Mustang has won the 10 best cars in C&D, Won the opinion (Not the performance) of this months auto mobile mag comparo. I only wish that when they came up with the Saleen version, it wold have been in the mid 30's but they went way i the Mid 40's for one.

    There you go. It's only a dream to know you are in a 400HP car...you either have to pay over 50 grand when the GT500 comes out or pay 48K for a Saleen, a Corvette for 47K or a CTS-v for 51K.

    Why wait until saturday, I am going to the dealer today!!!!! :shades: :surprise: ;) :) :P
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,828
    it is awesome how the goat tips to the side when you goose the engine while parked/neutral.. you see this same effect on dragsters - i understand that because of this, the springs on one side of the dragster have to be stiffer than on the other. all my Z28s used to do this noticeably just like my 05 goat. but c'mon, mustang V8s must do it too, to some extent, eh - it's not like the mustang engine is mounted transversely, eh?
  • Good points all!

    The GTO's performance, sound, and interior are impressive. I just wish the styling was better. While the 2005 is way better than the 2004, I still find the styling (like the new Charger) to border on the bland. I know GM and Dodge could have figured out a way to take the modern performance and combine it with some retro styling features. The GTO is way better than the Charger, but neither evokes an evisceral feeling of "muscle" in me.

    Oh yeah...the Saleen is a rip, the Shelby GT500 is sick, and the more any American car manufacturer makes a great car the better!
  • gtodongtodon Posts: 7
    That's a joke.
  • Considering the Vette looks to be about 700 lbs lighter with 25-50 more horsepower, I don't see how the Shelby will beat it in most performance categories. To be fair though, why would you compare two stock cars with drastically different prices? It's comparing apples to oranges and makes no sense. You don't hear Mustang owners arguing with GT owners or Z06 owners-to-be with GTO owners. The Mustang and the GTO are much better sports values for the money, but they can't compete with the higher priced cars.

    Just like if you want to be fair and even...give a Mustang GT owner $3-4 grand for performance upgrades and then run it against a GTO. In the end, a car is more than the sum of its parts and that's why the Mustang is currently the rave. Most people could care less about .3 going 0-60 or a second or two in the 1/4 mile. It is sublimely good in all categories and more than any other car on the market captures the old muscle car feel with modern fit and finish.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I was having a discussion this weekend with my cousin about the new Mustang and what it means for Ford. Before I go any further, I'll point out that my cousin currently owns a C5 Corvette m6 and has owned a number of big block TransAms from the very early 70's. He currently races a '66 Shelby GT350 in vintage racing.

    His opinion is that GM just rolled over and died with the F-bodies. He also thinks Ford hit a grandslam with the new Mustang. While he acknowledged that the GTO has it all over the Mustang in pure straightline performance, the Mustang kills GTO in style, and in this segment style matters. No kidding; this has been discussed endlessly in here.

    But what hasn't been discussed is the fact that the STYLE (coupled with good performance), is bringing a lot of people (YOUNG people) back from foreign nameplates to Ford. In other words, many people will be buying Fords, 10-15 years from now who might otherwise be buying Toyotas and Honda because of the Mustang. This is not the case with the GTO. Most GTO buyers (not all certainly, but most) were already GM fans. And most GTO buyers are NOT kids/young adults. Yeah, I know, supposedly 'large' numbers of BMW owners have switched to the GTO. What, 50-100? What is that compared to 10k-20k people buying a Mustang instead of a 350Z? (Or the 25k-50k buying a V6 Mustang instead of a Chevy Cobalt?)

    The point being that Ford is helping themselves out (moreso than GM) in the LONG run by bringing in a lot more young buyers.
  • Even with the new Mustang and it's success this year Ford is still losing market share, just like GM to the foreign rivals of Toyota/Honda. It's going to take more then just 1 car to reverse that. Historically the Mustang was always a good seller for Ford to begin with. I'm a American Muscle car fan. It's good we have 3 choices for now. As for the Mustang killing the GTO in style, Looks are subjective, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I personally like looks of GTO. The GTO interior/seats is nicer/higher quality.

    Remember the Cobalt SS supercharged does outperform the Mustang V6 for similar price and gets better gas mileage. Simple pulley swap on SS and it's running low 14's.

    From what I have seen most V8 Mustang buyers are not kids/young adults either. Most of the youngers ones are buying V6 Mustang. High insurance rates for a V8 Mustang if you are young. Just like F bodies. GTO has one of the lowest insurane rates I have ever seen for a 400hp car. It's not much more then my 200hp family 4 door sedan. I am in my early 30's.

    Don't forget, all GTO's come fully loaded with the 400hp LS2 V8, there is no base V6 models. The gas guzzler tax on automatic. That certainly doesn't help GTO sales. Enjoy what you bought.

    Charger, Stang & GTO are all good choices for people. At least we get 3 choices for now. It hasn't been this good since the early 1970's.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I'm sure that, overall, Ford is still losing market share (like GM). And granted, a single car will not reverse that. However, Ford IS selling a car in large numbers which has no Toyota/Honda/etc competitor to at least help to reverse this trend. GM is not.

    Yes, style is subjective and I'm sure that (to your eyes) the GTO looks good. But, my impression is that you were ALREADY a GM buyer and Pontiac aficionado so GM didn't really GAIN anything there. To help regain (or stop the slide with) market share, GM must win over buyers of other nameplates. The performance of the GTO certainly has what it takes. But if owners of other buyers were turned off by the styling of the GrandAm and GrandPrix, they're not going to give the GTO much of a chance.

    The Cobalt isn't just competing with the Mustang V6; it's also going up against a whole slew of other FWD coupes, some with similar or better performance. But a V6 Mustang offers something the import badges DON'T: RWD and 'classic' styling.

    Most of the youngers ones are buying V6 Mustang.

    EXACTLY. What they are NOT buying are yet another FWD sporty coupe. And what they are NOT buying are GTO's. And when these younger kids 'graduate' from their V6 Mustang, Ford has a better shot at keeping them in another FoMoCo product. This is my whole point. With the Mustang, Ford is bringing in many more young buyers who previously would never have considered a Ford. Who cares if these young'uns are buying V6's instead of V8's? GM, on the other hand, is trying to scavenge sales from other nameplates for the more 'financially established' buyer.

    IMO, the GTO succeeds more by keeping existing GM owners at home while the Mustang attracts more new customers to Ford.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Actually, I want to clarify - my argument isn't that the GTO is a 'failure' because it doesn't help GM to regain marketshare. The GTO was never intended to do this (obvious given the production numbers).

    I guess my whole beef is that GM basically abandoned the whole youthful ponycar market with the demise of the F-bodies thinking that the market was moving more and more towards inexpensive, sporty FWD coupes. I also think that the huge success of the Mustang kinda caught GM with their pants down.
  • Actually I'm not a GM/Pontiac buyer. I am a Rear Wheel Drive aficionado, esp V8. I don't like Front drive. If the GTO did NOT exist I would have not bought a Pontiac, probably not a GM either. I would be driving a new Mustang V8. Vette, CTS-V, STS V8 are a little pricey for me.

    The Mustang always brought in young buyers, and sold well. so did the Fbody until it's last few yrs. but I see your point. Too bad GM can't bring it back. Time will tell.

    2005 Mustang has 55% of the Sporty Car Market so far in some July news article I read.

    It's definitely a success for 2005, but As with the Thunderbird and the PT Cruiser, the first year sales may be its best.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Actually I'm not a GM/Pontiac buyer."

    Sorry; sometimes I jump to conclusions. From your screen name, I was assuming that you had both a GXP and a GTO. I've also gotten the impression (not necessarily from you) that a large number of GTO buyers are frustrated F-body fans.
  • lovegtolovegto Posts: 23
    Not all new GTO owners are GM always. My last three cars have been a Ford TBird, Mercury Cougar and Mercury Cougar. Style is subjective and I prefer the GTO. Comfort and quality are much less subjective and in this the GTO has it over the Mustang. As to cost, I purchased the GTO at employee discount which was only $1,500 over the comparable Mustang GT at MSRP, the current selling price, and this included the $1,300 gas guzzler tax.
    On the point about GM not mass marketing the GTO, you are correct. What GM needs to do is produce a 6 cylinder pony car to compete for the entry level buyer and have a souped up version of the pony car to give the 6 cylinder buyer a greater gotta have factor. Perhaps GM figures the Solstice to be that car. GM was behind the times when the first Pony cars came out, as the Camaro and Firebird were responses to the sucess of the original Mustang.
    However I did not buy my GTO to save GM but because it as the best rear wheel drive coupe for the money.
  • I have had a lot of GM cars and a lot of Ford or Chrysler cars. Mostly all domestic.

    GXP is a hoot to drive. My Company car. It was either that or a V6 300. Not HEMI, so I took V8 Grand Prix. Had a good sales year. Only negative is it's FWD. Too bad GM couldn't make RWD.

    GTO sees cruise nights/car shows and some in town every driving.

    Acura is the 4 door family sedan. Many transmissions later. Still going. Not anymore reliable then any American car I have had.

    I am not a frustrated Fbody fan. I used to have one, but the GTO is much more refined, much better interior then any Fbody. And usable back seats that and adult can fit in nicely. There is no comparison, other then the drivetrain.

    Remember some Fbodies in 2002 were nearly the same price new as a 2005 GTO is now. Go figure.
  • After 3 Hondas, I am one of those import buyers Ford won over. I considered the S2000, 350Z, GTO, and even an M3. I ended up choosing the Mustang GT, because we had a great automotive experience with a Ford Expedition and the Mustang exudes style like nothing I've seen in a while. While both Ford and GM are having problems, it seems with the Explorer, Escape Hybrid, and the Mustang Ford is on the upswing. From everything I've read, 2006 looks to be as good if not better than 2005. I would love to see GM release a retro Camaro or Firebird though.

    The GTO defiitely has an understated, "sleeper" style. The problem is unlike a BMW M3 or 330, it doesn't have the name or impressive history for quality and performance (nor the large pricetag!). A BMW has an understated elegance and style. The GTO just looks too much like a rebadged Cavalier or Grand Am.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,828
    rorr, you and your GM/racer/f-body/big-block pal make great points. i think you are right on. i am an old-time GM guy - i've owned 6 f-body cars over the last few decades - but my spine couldn't take the ride any more so i unloaded my final Z28 in 2004 and have not owned GM since then. GTO brought me back. i would have looked at c6 vette too if/once they were available for invoice.

    by the way, for those who say GTO parts will be slow/tough to get, i don' t have any evidence to counter that. the dealer dude suspected the same. i think that the parts my car needs may be being sent by two separate outrigger canoes from australia right now. (antenna modulator & seatbelt adjuster mechanism/slider).

    so, yeah, i'm a GM guy too and i think ford hit a home run with mustang, big time. either that, or the basketball analogy: nothin but net.

    it's fun to talk to mustang guys as a GTO owner though - they become demure and respectful in the presence of the all-out GTO superiority. as they should be!
  • "The GTO defiitely has an understated, "sleeper" style. The problem is unlike a BMW M3 or 330, it doesn't have the name or impressive history for quality and performance (nor the large pricetag!)"

    The GTO marque definitely has THE NAME and a impressive history for performance. This 2005 is the fastest/most powerfull stock one ever made. As for quality, the last GTO was 1974.

    "The GTO just looks too much like a rebadged Cavalier or Grand Am."

    The Mustang looks like a copy of 1968 Mustang, not too original. I'm glad they didn't make GTO retro. Imagine a redone 1974 Nova/Ventura Gto? Argh.. Anyway as we all know it's a rebadged Holden Monaro which is a car that has been compared to the BMW M5 in terms of performance. Check C&D Sept 2001 issue. It's also been compared to Mercedes SL55 AMG, also pretty impressive. My 2005 generates a lot of attention, people at lights, walking buy as I'm driving, car shows etc, asking me questions, saying NICE CAR.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,828
    the 2005 gto is no sleeper. i wish it was a sleeper ! it's incredible how much attention the car gets - people shouting from other cars, parking lots, opposing traffic. i actually like the more-sleeper/2004 styling way better but it's worth it to get the LS2. i've got 1500 miles on the car, mostly highway.. in city traffic or parking lots at least 20 random people have either shouted good things or asked about the car. my son tells me time after time about other folks on the highway staring at the car and then pointing it out to someone else in their car.

    meanwhile i do enjoy checking most all the new mustangs i see, trying ignore the v6/rental ones, and hoping to see a really beefy one soon, an SVT/garter-snake, whatever they call the fastest mustangs. after my GTO's warranty is expired (ahem) i plan to bring the GTO to the 1/4 mile track - maybe the fastest new mustangs will be out by then, i'd like to line up against one. :)
  • I followed a similar path to vppreacher after going through a few Toyotas.

    I considered the new GTO, and could have definitely been happy with it, but the rest of the family gave it the collective thumbs down based on styling alone. The impressive performance attributes of the GTO were not enough to win me over.

    We purchased one of the first GT Convertibles (Redfire Metallic with Interior Upgrade Package) and could not be happier with our decision.

    I applaud Ford for building an American car that appeals to the masses. Ford offers the Mustang in various models, trim levels and engine configurations that appeal to young and old and a variety of income levels. It's called marketing and is the bread and butter of the automotive industry.

    The new Mustang certainly has handling and performance characteristics not seen in previous generations. Drive one, you'll like i!. This is not to put a knock on the previous Mustangs as Ford has been on this run for 40 years. The Mustang is an American icon whether you like it or not.
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