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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • "I was under the impression that the only thing Chrysler resurrected was the NAME 'Hemi'. "

    You are correct. The only reason dodge got some more sales in the last couple of years is the new fake hemi. the heads on the hemi are not really even hemipherical. close but no real hemi.. but the word hemi sells. doesnt it??t Nice marketing scheme to bring buyers back.
  • " And Chevy used the 454 not so many years ago in the Silverado (I remember the 454SS version that was out for a few years)."

    The Chevy 454 SS truck was made from 1990 to 1993 and ONLY made 230hp. 1/4 mile in the mid to high 15's. Nothing special. It only had a 3spd automatic with 3.73 gearing. 10 - 12 mpg was about it. It cost about $20k new, which is equivalent to about $30k today !
  • Interesting how a car can be so RAVED about overseas, but not here. Holden Monaro, GTO here, has captured the Australian public’s imagination and beaten all comers as the nation’s best selling sports car for the past three years.

    “he Monaro has been an absolute winner in Australia - a hands-down winner in the sports car market. It has been the flagship of our performance car range and the standard for others to match,” he said.

    Our coupe has worn four GM brands on four continents and sold almost six times as many cars as were first planned.

    “But most of all, Monaro ignited something deep within the Australian car culture and made people think about locally built performance cars as capable of competing with anything in the world from the value perspective.

    “Managing the life cycle ensures strong ongoing demand for used Monaros, keeping resale values high and protecting its deserved reputation as a classic.”
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Well, I was going to offer my own little editorial comment regarding the 454SS but I tried to bite my tongue. I agree with your assessment 100%. I don't know what the heck GM did with the 454 in that truck but it was a dog. Ford was getting roughly that kind of power out of their venerable 302 at that same time.

    3.73 gears and only mid-high 15's???? Probably traction problems given the torque that motor was capable of and the unloaded rear-end..... :confuse:
  • "3.73 gears and only mid-high 15's???? Probably traction problems given the torque that motor was capable of and the unloaded rear-end...."

    You are right on the SS. The Ford Lightning which came out in 1993 had 4.10 gears, 240hp 5.8 Liter and ran mid 15's as well. Same as SS. Ford had a smaller motor, 5.8 vs GM's 7.4

    By today stds it sounds avg to slow, Then again that was decent to good performance in the early 1990's !! Automatic Mustang 1993 ran mid 15's too !!
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I was happy with the '04 until I saw and drove the '05
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I just love those old cars. I sure wouldn't want to drive one nowadays. I like the idea of upgrading the engines.

    I hope you are right about the oil. I'm just not as confident as you.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    We're all over the map here, folks.

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • eliaselias Posts: 1,934
    ok, speaking of the track - does anyone here have timeslips to post for mustang GTs & either 04 or 05 goats? we can post image files here so it should be possible to scan & post the actual timeslips, eh? after experiencing the goat/irs wheelhop, i'm less eager to run mine on a 1/4 mile track. and i can see some of ford's logic in giving the new mustang with solid rear axle. on the other hand, i'd rather have the better handling & ride with the irs than the easier-launching with a solid-rear-axle.
  • I don't know if Pontiac/Holden will be making Special Editions of the GTO, but I hope they do....just to make the magazines and markets more interesting. I know Ford has big plans for bringing back not only the Shelby, but also a Bullit, Mach 1, and other Special Editions. I've always thought Hunter Green was a nice unique color.

    I wonder how the Mustang would sell in Australia. Europe, America, Canada, and each country has their own cultural, performance, and aesthetic bias and preferences. It seems that we each have our own automotive ideal of a nice ride. Heck, even within America there are substantial differences between urban/rural, East/West, and North/South.
  • Ford sells the 4 door Rear Drive Falcon XR8 with a 348hp 5.4L V8, but ONLY in Austrailia. It's a Mustang with 4 doors. And it has an IRS as well. Too bad Ford can't bring that here.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,304
    Had a video of a guy who ran a 13.6 1/4 with a bone stock '05 Mustang GT. I posted it a long while ago, but can't find it now.

    We've been round and round about the solid rear of the Mustang. Ford did such a good job with it, that they didn't see the need, nor the additional expense by going to an IRS.
    To me, one of the advantages of the Mustang GT over the GTO when I was test driving was the handling. The Mustang does ride firmer, but I like that trait. Plus, once you start to cruise in the Mustang, it's quite comfortable.

    While I understand those who like the more softly sprung GTO, I'm not one of those.

    If you peruse other boards, you will find some who think the Mustang's ride as to firm. I'm not one of them, though.
  • There is a video of a guy running a 12.9 1/4 with a bone stock '05 GTO, if I find the link I will post it.

    GTO handles just as well as Mustang, both similar numbers. MPH August mag had a Charger, Stang-GTO comparo. It said GTO handles better and was chosen WINNER of the 3 cars.

    The GTO is not softly sprung it has a firm ride too, still feel the road, just not as Firm as Mustang GT. I like that nice suede like material which is actually Alcantara, WIdely used in BMW and Audi interiors !

    Dif. strokes for dif folks.
  • I say we let the sales numbers speak to which is the better car. People talk with their money...Okay, seriously, even if Holden and GM could import more Monaro/GTOs, the Mustang would sell more. I was obviously speaking facetiously.

    Besides the lackluster looks (and that's putting it nicely), I think the GTO doesn't resonate with the majority of buyers for several reasons:
    1. While it may have a nice interior and better performance than the Mustang, the new GTO, unlike its muscular predecessor, has no kinship with any other GM/Pontiac car made, ever. The Mustang undeniably looks like a Mustang. To quote a favorite review, "In other words, the Mustang GT looks great, sounds like sex and goes like stink." The GTO looks like every other Pontiac.
    2. Additionally, whereas the Mustang's shifter, steering, and suspension allow you to "feel" the road (with some dampening), the GTO feels more like a sedan made for comfort...spongy, less responsive, subdued. Not what most "muscle-car" buyers want.
    3. Time will tell, but there also is a perception since the GTO is on the out and it's made in Australia that aftermarket parts will get more difficult to find.
    4. Lastly, Ford's hard work and dedication to its fans (old and now new) have paid off in droves. GM took a great performing sedan and almost as an afterthought rebadged it as a GTO. Ford, recognizing their stewardship of 40 years of automotive history, honored that history in a modern car that is so much more than the sum of its parts. The GTO does perform better, but it's just not as well thought out, costs thousands more, and looks bland.

    People can't necessarily tell you what the new GTO and Mustang should've looked like if you asked them to draw it. But once most see both cars in the "flesh", they know the new Mustang is a "Stang" and the new GTO is just a foreign-made sedan that looks way too much like a Grand Prix/Grand Am/Sunfire...pick your Pontiac flavor.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,304
    I'd like to see the video of that 12.9 run. The best I've seen is 13.3....and that's with the professional testers in the trade rags. In contrast, the best 1/4s I've seen with the Mustang is 13.5....by those same testers at the same trade rags. I'[ve seen a few different 1/4 times in both cars from different sources....most of them were worse, though.

    But, you're right....different strokes for different folks. Compared to the Mustang, I found the GTO to be too softly sprung. I attributed it to the weight of the GTO.

    Took a rode trip in the Mustang last week for work. Drove about 700 miles both ways to Chicago. Got 26 MPG for the entire trip.....including some "stop & go" in the city. Cruised on the interstates about 80 MPH for most of the trip.....all on regular gas.

    Gotta question....since GM extended the employee pricing into Sept, was the GTO added?

    On a side note, I'll be heading down to Bowling Green to take a Corvette plant tour in a few weeks. I'm really looking forward to that and the visit to the Corvette museum.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    It got the 4L80-E for 91, though. That was a good tranny.

    On the engine thing - people talk about Chrysler bringing back the Hemi and Ford's great engines of the past. But did everyone forget? GM's been doing this since 1985 (sans the fun names) with the TPI L98 (230-250hp). Then the LT1 for 92 (300hp), LS1 for 98 (345hp) and LS2 for 05 (400hp). They all got excellent mileage for their performance and period of production and could be hotrodded easily with aftermarket support that is second to none. Ford had, what, the 302 during this time? Chrysler had......::crickets::
  • Don't forget the LS7 for 2006 with 505hp
    :)

    I would like to drop one of those in the GTO :P
  • If you go to some of the GTO forum there are many that have gotten low 13's and some in the high 12, STOCK on 2005 400hp GTO.

    26mpg is great. The only 2 times we took a highway trip in GTO we got the 21mpg EPA rated #. At a steady 75mph or so.

    I don't think it's a weight thing, because SRT8 is not softly sprung and weighs 4100 or 4200?. Sometimes I feel my GTO rides to stiff, aka Mustang. It depends.

    GTO was NOT added to GM employee pricing. I guess they are selling ok if GM doesn't have to discount them.
  • One interesting thing I noticed is that the GTO is classified as COMPACT by the EPA, that gave me a chuckle. Says it right on my window sticker too. GTO total interior volume is 95 cu ft + 7 cu ft trunk. Total of 102 cu ft.

    The Mustang is classified as SUBCOMPACT, one level under GTO Go figure? Mustang total interior volume is 85 cu ft + 13 cu ft trunk. Total of 98 cu ft.

    You have to have 110 total cu ft to be considered MID-SIZED ! Crazy rating systems.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,304
    All I care about is that my body fit comfortably behind the wheel and my feet can reach the pedals.....;-0
  • First off -
    '1. While it may have a nice interior and better performance than the Mustang, the new GTO, unlike its muscular predecessor, has no kinship with any other GM/Pontiac car made, ever. The Mustang undeniably looks like a Mustang. To quote a favorite review, "In other words, the Mustang GT looks great, sounds like sex and goes like stink." The GTO looks like every other Pontiac. '

    Hu? :confuse: ?? It has no kinship with any other GM/Pontiac but it looks just like every other Pontiac?
    Well, that's a good trick.

    'the GTO feels more like a sedan made for comfort...spongy, less responsive, subdued. Not what most "muscle-car" buyers want.'

    Have you driven the GTO? I mean this 'less responsive' comment is about as far from the truth as you can get. When you drive a GTO, you can step on that gas and you absolutely fly. I was coming up the coast yesterday, passing other cars left and right and laughing because the GTO makes it so incredibly easy to do - uphill, downhill, straightaways - doesn't matter to the Goat.

    And lastly - I'm so sick of this weak argument - 'I say we let the sales numbers speak to which is the better car.' said it before and I'll say it again - guess that means the VW Beetle is a hotter car than the Stang, right? ;)
  • You continue to misunderstand the sales argument.

    If 2 vehicles (M and G] are competing for fundamentally the same target buyers and M dramatically outsells G; one can hypothesize that the market has determined that M is a better car (ceteris paribus). And sales transactions across a few hundred thousand buyers a much better measure of success than a few guys chatting.

    And I drive a Mustang GT Convertible, so never considered GTO. My other options were M3 and S4.

    Muscle cars are so much fun al fresco.
  • By kinship, I was talking about its visual and perfomance links to the past, e.g. retro styling. The new GTO doesn't look anything like the old goat. If it did and Holden/GM could produce it in quantity, it would have given the new Mustang a serious run for its money. On the contrary, the new Mustang looks like the best of the 60-70s Mustangs with a plethora of modern improvements. The new GTO looks like every other late model Pontiac.

    As for my ride opinion, again, I'm not alone. Many reviewers have echoed that assessment. The GTO has a smoother ride, but it seems to sacrifice comfort for feel. I never said anything about the GTO's acceleration or passing ability. In that regard, it beats a stock Mustang.

    Again, we are expousing our opinions, but however sick you feel the market analogy is, it is still very relevant. For the same price, a better, more attractive car will usually sell more units. Comparing the Bettle to the Stang is not an accurate comparison. It's apples to kumquats. The GTO and Mustang GT are in the same price range and performance categories. The Mustang sells more, because more people like it. Newgx56owner summed it up succintly.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,934
    camaro was a subcompact as well... i sometimes referred to my Zs as my "GM v8 subcompact" to best baffle coworkers.
    goat suspension is not as firm as the mustang GT? well, it's plenty firm for me considering my geezin cervical spine arthritis that made it a no-brainer to trade away my final Z28.
    really we're just going round and round with the whole stang vs goat thing, but hey, it's sorta funny.
    i'd definitely like to see whatever videos - thanks in advance to anyone who posts links.
    as for the styling and people's interest in it, i think the rarity of the goat makes people much more goo-ga over it. but i haven't driven a new stang around town so what do i know about that - not much. i figure the sheer numbers of stangs makes them sort of boring to see, especially after seeing all the v6/rental models around.
    speaking of videos, there's one floating around the net of a honda insight vs a jetta TDI, set to music - pretty funny. some things never change - the hybrid people and the tdi people are always talkin trash about each other just like us GM vs ford pony-car peoples. (my other car's a tdi).
  • 'it's plenty firm for me considering my geezin cervical spine arthritis that made it a no-brainer to trade away my final Z28.'
    Hallelujah brother - those GTO seats are mighty comfy!
    And all those horses don't hurt either.

    And I too have not driven a Mustang, so I would never go around posting about it's handling. But I do know this from firsthand experience - the Mustang is as common as dirt in Ca. - there are something like 5 on my block (and this is not a big neighborhood). That fact alone seals the deal for me - I have zero interest in following the pack.

    As for those who love the car - go for it, enjoy your ride - I always thought they were pretty cool cars - but don't go slamming a car's handling when you haven't even driven one.
  • "The GTO and Mustang GT are in the same price range and performance categories. The Mustang sells more, because more people like it."

    The Mustang GT is priced considerably lower around 5 grand or so.
    There are two factors here. 1-It sells far more because it sells for less. A factor in sales price that can't be ignored. 2-Ford's retro styling was a "coup" A masterstroke that coupled with the lower price, has vaulted it way up in sales in contrast to the GTO. And topped off with formidable performance.

    However, the GTO has lived up to it's reputation...In spades. A big powerful engine in an intermediate coup. With far more bells and whistles then it's predecessors.
    Better handling than it's predecessors, more hp than it's predecessors.
    Nit picking the GTO, it's styling, made in Australia, etc. does nothing to take away
    from it's "muscle car" image because right now it has more than lived up to that
    image in the performance category surpassing the stock GTO's of the past.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Right on girl! Well said.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    "You continue to misunderstand the sales argument."

    Your argument is that if it sells more then it is a better car. Therefore, the Camry and Maxima are better cars than the Mustang. That's your philosophy, not ours.
  • i believe the mustang is better in styling and the engine bay.. ford has always known that some people want muscle power or else they wouldnt have had a V8 in the older t-birds (+supercharger) and the new t-birds. but pontiac on the other hand has a lot of ups. pontiac's gto was one of the first musclecars and they want people to know that. plus it has a damn 6 speed. thats pretty sweet. making it a sedanish type car was a good idea because more people will buy it if its comfy. and then other people will buy it, reminiscent of the older gto's and their power. but i do think the pony car is better. you can really see the old mustang in the new ones and i think that is a big plus. but when u think abouit theyre both amazing, i mean its american muscle and you cant beat that.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    "In other words, the Mustang GT looks great, sounds like sex and goes like stink." The GTO looks like every other Pontiac. '

    I liked this one, too. He failed to mention that the GTO also sounds like sex and goes like stink.
This discussion has been closed.