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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • sigt1sigt1 Posts: 66
    haha exactly both serve diff purposes; exact reason why camaro and challenger are coming out, to "challenge" the mustang; same thing happened 40 years ago; why don't we compare a 330ci to a mustang my buddy got one for 30k ect ect... it just aint the same race... sorry
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... Most performance V6 engines of 2004 made that much power or more. ...

    Name 'em.

    ... Z06 makes 505hp, no blower. Ford GT500 will make 450hp with a blower.

    And that same engine in the Ford GT makes 600HP. Ninety-five more than the Z06 with 1.6L less displacement. ;)
  • cobragtcobragt Posts: 95
    If you read my post correctly, I said before doing my major mods (i.e. the blower). I'm talking a simple $1100 in mods, makes the GT faster. And NO a blower doesnt cost well over $5000 to buy and install. Vortech's blower $3200-$3600 (depending on where) and its install is about $1000 flat. Less the 5 big ones.

    And do me a favor... Define a "comparably equipped Mustang".

    Last time I checked, we are talking about PERFORMANCE vs. DOLLARS. Not my interior is better than yours so thats why my car is better.

    Here is your problem...you keep saying a comparable GT to a GTO. Hows this for you...

    Base GT

    Base GTO

    Now lets compare that...a bone stock, BASE GTO, vs a bone stock BASE GT. No added goodies in either.

    Ford MSRP Base Model $25835
    GTO MSRP Base Model $31,990
    Even the GT PREMIUM is $27,010 MSRP.

    So, base model to base model, there is a big dollar difference, both still have 300hp and 400 hp, and you can still add to the GT, make it faster, for less then the GTO.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I think both cars are pretty great for what they cost.
    Mustang is available as a V6 so it had to be built to a lower price point than the GTO.
    I don't see the GTO as handling or conering as well as the Mustang. GTO is softer and has a longer wheelbase so it wouldn't be as quick autoXing.
    My GTO does not grip as well as my IROC, which corners as flat as a board. The GTo may have good high speed handling capabilities but I have not tried to slam it into a corner from 80-100mph.
    I would have to give the handling crown to the Mustang but the extra torque, ride and comfort go to the GTO.
    I also think that the GTo appeals to an older demographic.
    I am guessing that the GTO has what more 40-50 year olds want in a Coupe.

    By the way the Mustang's inventory is now at 111 days.
    They are hardly flying off the lots anymore.
    GTO's is 135 days.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "By the way the Mustang's inventory is now at 111 days."

    Anyway to break that down by V6 vs. GT?
  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    "And do me a favor... Define a "comparably equipped Mustang".

    How about a mustang with 1000w stereo,larger tire option, upgraded interior andleather (really is leather/pleather)for starters?
    Sorry, but you can't get a GTO without that wonderful all leather interior. Plus, they are now giving them 18" wheels at no extra cost. I doubt most mustang buyers will even consider a GT w/o any options. The base mustang gt is likely a lossleader that is hard, if not nonexistent, to find.
    Cars in the Mustang price range that are faster? How about the lancer, it'll do a 13.2 1/4. How many do you need, what's the point? All of this only proves that the mustange is not a leader in any category- that's hardly a selling point.
    High powered v6's from '04 that could do 260hp or more...
    GM might have some blown v6 that could do it. I do know that the Honda sourced V6 that they put in the VUE is rated at 250 hp. Not bad for a ride that currently now costs $23K
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    The Mustang has always been the top selling sports coupe in America. That's leading a category, isn't it? How about best bang for the buck (MSRP)?

    I didn't know they were giving away options on the GTO to make 'em sell. It's too bad that the Mustang doesn't have a "wonderful all leather interior." But Mustang drivers tend to enjoy fondling the steering wheel and shifter over fondling the seats and dashboard. (Some people like to drive, while others like to brag about interiors.)

    The Lancer is a 4-cylinder and that's not a performance V6 in the view. What's the torque figure on that, BTW? 212?
  • cobragtcobragt Posts: 95
    They don't want to do MSRP, because if they do, then they clearly loose, because you can't argue with that Ford or Pontiac's website says.

    And I hope, dclark, you were talking about the Evo. And if so, lets not forget that now you are talking all-wheel drive vs rear wheel drive. Also, the new Evo's also beat the GTO, so if you are going to bring up other "fast" cars, let's not leave out the fact of how the GTO compares to it also.
    Also, lets see, can I use the argument that makers of such cars like the Evo cannot get that kind of power through NA engines? I mean, everyone complains that Ford has to supercharge their cars, and thats suppose to be a problem, so why is it ok now to bring a turbocharged car into the picture...(oh wait, to prove a point that isn't there?)
  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    "Also, lets see, can I use the argument that makers of such cars like the Evo cannot get that kind of power through NA engines? I mean, everyone complains that Ford has to supercharge their cars, and thats suppose to be a problem, so why is it ok now to bring a turbocharged car into the picture...(oh wait, to prove a point that isn't there?)"
    Gee, did you know that the Evo comes from the factory with a turbo, designed just for it? Did you? Incredible, isn't it?
    You keep talking about how wonderful the mustang is if you throw money at it in the form of bolt ons. That really is your way of saying that the mustang IS slow! Otherwise, why would you have to start fixing up a ford as soon as it is driven off the lot (oops, I forgot- it's a ford!).
    Even when Roush sc the 'stang, it could only MATCH the GTO in hp (300hp) all for a cost of $69K!!! Gee, how much power could I have out of my 6 liter v8 if I took it to a tuner and spent $30K???
    Evo, Wrx are both examples of just how much more performance you can get for comparable money. It is incredible that Ford can't even put out a motor that can match the performance of an 8 year old GM ls1. The current ls2 has 25% more power, and they will be getting close to 500 hp in a few years w/o a blower.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... Gee, did you know that the Evo comes from the factory with a turbo, designed just for it? ...

    '03/'04 Cobra and upcoming GT500, anyone?

    ... It is incredible that Ford can't even put out a motor that can match the performance of an 8 year old GM ls1. ...

    So what you're saying is that the blower on the 5.4L in the Ford GT is putting in excess of 250HP with just, what, 14psi of boost? :surprise: Don't think so! :shades:
  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    ".

    "'03/'04 Cobra and upcoming GT500, anyone?"

    Did the '03/04 Cobra cost under $30K? Will the Gt500 cost under $30K? If not, mentioning them is irrelvent as The sube and mits are two cars that offer mustang beating performance for around the same price. Wasn't the arguement that the mustang offers the best performance for the buck? WRX, Evo, GTO offer more. Mentioning things that are out of production is irrelvent (even though it is amusing that an old camaro will blow away a 'stang) and that GT500 will be way more expensive.


    So what you're saying is that the blower on the 5.4L in the Ford GT is putting in excess of 250HP with just, what, 14psi of boost? Don't think so!

    I really have no idea of what you are saying here. I will continue to say that it is a shame that the only way Ford can make competitive power with a v8 is by slapping a blower on a motor- I guess that shortcut is cheaper than quality engineering. I 'll take better engineering over clever marketing anyday...
  • You guys are talking about two very different cars. Mustang is built for cruising. It wasn't designed to be a GTO beater. It has decent looks apparently (not my taste) :P , that satisfy its customer base and a middle-of-the-road but certainly not bad engine.

    GTO is in a different class, kinda like the old Chevelle-Malibu. GM designed it to be roomy and luxurious, as well as being a car that can run down just about anything.

    The price difference between them is not much. A GTO comes basically loaded from the factory, with leather seating, irs, etc, while the Ford will become much pricer with any options. Sure, you can get a mustang for 25k, but 97% will get options, and a lot of them. This is not accounting for the price markups and discounts right now.

    If you like a cloth interior and like showing off, take the mustang. If you like sleepers, luxury, and enough torque to rip your head off, go with GTO.

    Me: I am glad we are finally having muscle cars to debate on, and even though I am a huge GM fan, I am truely grateful for the Mustang keeping musclecars alive. Viva la Camaro 2009! :shades:
  • Who cares that ford supercharges its cars to get horsepower?

    GM uses more cubes, tunes it's NA cars. Personally, I like GM's main approach, when I bolt on a supercharger or a turbo, b/c I have that tuning, the forced induction will give me more horses. And it's a lot easier to do a bolt-on than Ford's approach.

    Thats why you see more people running Chevy small-blocks in everything from street vehicles to motor-racing. My Ford-boy roommate even admits this! :surprise: HE RACES THEM. AND HE LOVES THE MUSTANG.

    Of course you can rip apart a Ford engine and start boring out cylinders, reinforcing stuff, etc. :sick: I guess you should get the point by now, but shortcutting by supercharging or turbocharging isn't the way to go, at least with V8s and V6s....
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    What I was saying was a rebuttal to your misguided statement that Ford can't make power from an NA engine. You said that they can't even make an NA engine as powerful as the old LS1 engine that had 350HP. The 5.4L V8 in the Ford GT is pushing 600+HP. 600 (Ford GT HP) - 350 (old LS1 HP) = 250 (minimum HP the blower has to be adding). Sooo, since you're saying that Ford CAN'T produce an NA engine that makes at least 350HP (the old LS1 output), that would mean the blower has to be pushing AT LEAST 251HP (since you say they can't make as much NA HP, it would have to be 349HP or less for the engine alone)with just 14psi (if that much psi). Don't think so!
  • "What I was saying was a rebuttal to your misguided statement that Ford can't make power from an NA engine. "You said that they can't even make an NA engine as powerful as the old LS1 engine that had 350HP."

    Yup, that's exactly what I said.

    "The 5.4L V8 in the Ford GT is pushing 600+HP. 600 (Ford GT HP) - 350 (old LS1 HP) = 250 (minimum HP the blower has to be adding)."

    That motor is BLOWN! That truck motor IS available in a truck without a blower. It is rated at 300hp!

    "Sooo, since you're saying that Ford CAN'T produce an NA engine that makes at least 350HP (the old LS1 output), that would mean the blower has to be pushing AT LEAST 251HP (since you say they can't make as much NA HP, it would have to be 349HP or less for the engine alone)with just 14psi (if that much psi). Don't think so!"

    It really doesn't matter what you think that modded up blown motor in the GT would w/o the blower. Here are the facts (something that Ford lovers hate).
    Ford can't make a v8 that'll pump out over 300hp w/o either using a blower or simply lying about the power! You have failed to give an example of one Ford V8 that can produce 350 hp w/o a blower. BTW, it has been reported in C/D that the upcoming gt500 will have an IRON BLOCK! Just another reminder of how low tech Ford motors are.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Wow! Talk about reaching for straws! :surprise:

    Ever heard of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R? Boss 429? GT500KR? GT350? The original Mach 1? The Ford 389cid V8? Gimme a break.

    And an iron block is no more low tech than PUSHRODS! :sick:
  • Thats what I was just about to say.

    The 2000 Cobra R was a 5.4L that made 385-390HP. NA. That right there proves they can do it, but CHOOSE not to.

    And also, yeah, the EVO and the STI come with a factory turbo, made for the car...so does the Cobra, and the new GT500, so whats the difference?

    And actually, the STI is more along the lines of the GTO pricewise. Its MSRP is , $32,995.

    STI MSRP

    And no, Mustang owners are not admitting to being slow, rather, simply stating that for the amount of money the GTO owners pay more, they should be MUCH faster, not those small, barely faster numbers that C&D has posted. It cracks me up that you think you are soooooo fast, yet only so small an amount away from the GT, and for more money. We buy our car, put into it the same amount of money as your stock GTO, and then we blow your doors off.
  • Just to name a few Performance V6 engines of 2004 that made the same 260hp or more then the V8 Mustang GT.....

    G35 with 260 - 280hp on 3.5L V6
    350Z 280hp on 3.5L V6
    Maxima 265hp on 3.5L V6
    Grand Prix GTP 260hp on 3.8L V6

    BTW Ford GT is twice the price of the Z06, I should hope it makes 95 more hp for $70k more :P
  • "Ever heard of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R? Boss 429? GT500KR? GT350? The original Mach 1? The Ford 389cid V8? Gimme a break.
    And an iron block is no more low tech than PUSHRODS!"

    I hate to burst your bubble but iron is low tech. See, iron is a metal, a very, very heavy metal. Now, it is bad to have too much weight in any car, especially the front- bad, bad, bad!
    Now, aluminum is a much lighter metal. Lighter is good! Good, good,good! An aluminum motor can weigh over 150lbs less than an iron equivalent.Less weight up front means a better weight balance and better handling.
    However, Ford doesn't really care about handling (remember that truck like rear suspension in the mustang?), so they could care less if the car has a 60/40 weight balance. Heck, that might be a bit too much math for the typical Ford buyer to understand!
    Very few motors are made out of iron because it is too heavy. Aluminum is the way. Even GM knew this when they made an all aluminum big block for the camaros (and two 'vettes) back in '69. Aluminum is tricky stuff- it isn't as strong as iron, nor can it take heat as well as iron, so it requires some good engineering.
    Now, do you you remember what I said about Ford's poor engineering? Do you? Well, unlike the rest of the world's great car makers, the idea of making a high output v8 aluminum motor is out of their grasp. They simply don't know how to make one! They tried with their regular block, but said that they had "durability issues". Gee, I thought that was a ford standard feature!Now, they are going to put a bot anchor of a motor in the gt500.
    So, that is why iron blocks are old tech. And no, you won't find them on a Pontiac, Porsche or any other performance car, for that reason. If you think that iron blocks aren't old tech, then you might also consider a writing campaign to bring back points and condensers,drum brakes and carbuerators.

    "And no, Mustang owners are not admitting to being slow, rather, simply stating that for the amount of money the GTO owners pay more, they should be MUCH faster, not those small, barely faster numbers that C&D has posted. It cracks me up that you think you are soooooo fast, yet only so small an amount away from the GT, and for more money. We buy our car, put into it the same amount of money as your stock GTO, and then we blow your doors off."

    That's pretty funny. I have already shown how a comparably equipped mustang (upgraded interior, larger wheels, 1000w stereo,leather) cost only a little over a $1,000 less. You are claiming that you can get an extra 100 hp and a irs for under $2K. It is that mindset that helps Ford sell these mustangs. BTW, don't forget to wave bye bye to your warranty as you vainly cobble krap onto the mustang indesperation to have a car that can keep up with the GTO remember, the GTO has a 1.3 liter 100hp head start.
    BTW, the GTO is MUCH faster. It starts off the line faster and just continues on out of sight. That's why the 0-90 time was almost a second and half faster than the Mustang.
  • Yes Ford did a Normally aspirated 385hp 5.4L V8 in the 2000 Cobra R. It was also expensive ($55,000) and at 71.3 horsepower a liter, isn't much more then the GTO's 66.7 hp a liter. BTW, Ford still lost $$ on all 300 they sold that year. http://www.mustang50magazine.com/roadtests/13379/

    The Cobra R also had no backseat, no air-conditioning and no sound system. No creature comforts. It used the rear fascia of the V6 Mustang.

    If I wanted to only go fast for the least amount of cash, I would have bought the Mustang, but as you said the $$ that GTO owners supposedly pay more, they are arguably getting a more refined car with a better interior and better ride, usable backseat. To some people like me performance isn't everything in a car. Thats why I never bought an F body either. Fast cars, but what good is it with their cheap interiors and no refinement!
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