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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO
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Comments
Meantime, mainstream Mustangs may get various tweaks aimed at improving ride comfort and reducing noise, vibration and harshness. Timing is unclear, but a leading industry trade paper recently quoted Ford officials as more or less promising some chassis "upgrades" fairly soon.
Electronics issues on GTO were a bad battery which can happen on the 2month transit from Austrailia to America. As soon as dealer put a new battery in, it was fine. Unlike Musttangs that seem to just die at highwayspeeds from electriclal malfunctions, LOL! Dealer can't find out why. Thats a lot more sever to me.
Got news for ya, Pontiac did adjust the front suspension accordlingly to handle P245 tires. In austrailia they have P235. It was one rare case. Everyone else that posted after that never had that problem at all. All suggested he had an alignment problem if you read the whole post. if you saw the pictures of the tire he posted it was CLEARLY an alignment problem. Read the whole thread first!
I supposed we could keep on going, but I won't last post on this. Mustang is more problematic then GTO, face it. As they say you GET what you pay for.
Holden is a proven platform, the 2005 Stang is Not yet. Give it until next year to iron out bugs.
59 posts of issues (some of them solutions to issues) for a car that's already got 100,000 of them on the road? Not bad at all in my estimation. Even some of those are issues that are more an indication of a poor dealer service dept., not an indictment of the car.
GM dealers are all sterling, right?
I can start a thread for GTO problems if you want. But, I don't own one so I have no need.
Some people having to take a while refueling their Mustangs isn't something I'd consider a big problem. Ford has addressed it with a running production change and offered those who have early builds a fix IF THEY EXPERIENCE any such behavior. I consider the "issue" to be minor and one that I've yet to experience.
One of the things I don't understand is anyone saying a Pontiac (no matter what the model) being some sort of "lux" car. I just don't see it. My dealer took a BMW 330i on trade for a Mustang. Does that make the Mustang a luxury car?
Kind of funny because C&D said the GTO was the MORE FUN to DRIVE car then Mustang,and it's steering was FAR more communicative then the steering the Mustang, LOL!
Graphic guy writes.....I do think some of the lack of performance difference stems from the shifter in the GTO being less precise than the Mustang's, too. ......
NO, the GTO outperforms the Mustang, plain and simple, WON all the performance categories.
Graphicguy writes....... Clearly, the marketplace has spoken on what the public likes.....
The market place likes it because it's CHEAP and starts at $19k, and has the BOY RACER GOT TO HAVE looks..... GTO starts at $31k+ FOrd had the ability to sell nearly 200k, GM only had the max ability of 18k for the UMPTEENTH time. The avg Mustang buyer can't afford GTO. Big dif, $19k car vs $31k car Got alot of teeny boppers, high school students/college students and fleet sales/ Hertz buying them. Why do you think 66% of 2004 sales were CHEAP V6 model?
How do you know History won't remember the GTO? You ssem to forget the Grand National and V8 impala SS were only made for 3 yrs too! They are fondly remembered. LOL! The advantage is that you don't see them a DIME a dozen like the Mustang.
As for the Mustang GT sold out, NOT IN MY AREA, there is 3 on the lot by me now and 2 V6's.
The thread for GTO problems won't even come close to Mustang problems.
The BMW 3 series is NOT a luxury car. It's a tiny cramped car. You can get one for not much more then Mustang, low 30's When you buy a 3 series BMW around here it says I wanted a BMW but couldn't afford one. The 5, 6 and 7 series are the real BMW.
BMW quality is now worse then GM.. Ibelieve Buick far surpassed them in quality a few yrs ago. My 528 was nice but very high maintenance costs.
the avg BMW owner is not trading in for a Mustang, sorry to burst your bubble. However if you read the GTO specific forums, you will see many former BMW owners, myself included that have traded in for a GTO.
GTO is more the luxury car then the Stang will ever be
If you remember the Pinto based Mustang of 1974 to 1978 was a decent to good seller.
It shows you that people will buy CRAP/Garbage.
Look at the Ford Focus, one of the best selling cars, yet it is also the MOST RECALLED Car in history, LOL! many quality problems.. that shows you people will buy CRAP. Same thing with Sunfires/Cavaliers.. sold pretty well for GM but were CRAP!
At one time when Mustang sales dropped as low as 90k or 100k units Ford thought about cancelling the lline 20+ yrs ago.
Just because something sells the best doesn't make it the best. Look at Titanic movie, exactly. It may have set all time sales record, but far from the best movie. LOL!
Enjoy your GTO. I'm sure gguy enjoys his Mustang. I don't think there's any reason to burst a blood vessel over this.......
Enjoy the GTO, if that's your preference.
Why the name calling (the Mustang is "crap")? Particularly given the overwhelming success the Mustang is enjoying. Ford must have done something right (quite a few things right since the Mustang has been so overwhelmingly praised).
This is one of the few times I'm left confused and to wonder if there's some sort of underlying "bad feeling" regarding the success of the new Mustang. Given the fact that some here have spent quite a bit of time in all Mustang forums (lifting posts out of context), I have to believe they have more than a passing interest in the car itself, regardless of what they currently own.
Even the consumer ratings here at Edmunds give the Mustang a "9.1 rating" and call it one of the most desireable cars with all their readership. Can't be "crap" if so many readers here want one.
The GTO is a good car. THEY know the GTO is a good car. Yet they see hordes and hordes of people buying Mustangs; they see the automotive press panning the GTO in favor of the Mustang over (what they see as) non-performance issues. They see that GM has essentially abandoned the GTO (lack of advertising) and they realize that, due to no fault of the car itself, the 2006 is likely to be the last year for the GTO.
I would be frustrated too.
Umm... I wouldn't call a slow-filling gas tank a severe problem unless I was being chased buy a creepy monster or psycho-back-from-the-dead-hellbent-on-revenge that was going to sever my head from my body and I had to get a fill-up on #4 before I could escape.
Electronics issues on GTO were a bad battery which can happen on the 2month transit from Austrailia to America. As soon as dealer put a new battery in, it was fine. Unlike Musttangs that seem to just die at highwayspeeds from electriclal malfunctions, LOL! Dealer can't find out why. Thats a lot more sever to me.
Got news for ya, Pontiac did adjust the front suspension accordlingly to handle P245 tires. In austrailia they have P235. It was one rare case. Everyone else that posted after that never had that problem at all. All suggested he had an alignment problem if you read the whole post. if you saw the pictures of the tire he posted it was CLEARLY an alignment problem. Read the whole thread first!
I supposed we could keep on going, but I won't last post on this. Mustang is more problematic then GTO, face it. As they say you GET what you pay for.
Holden is a proven platform, the 2005 Stang is Not yet. Give it until next year to iron out bugs.
Total double standard there. One minute you're complaining that the Mustang is (very loosely) based on the 5 or 6 year old LS platform and it is old, but the GTO is on the same Monaro platform that is OLDER than the LS, but it is a proven platform??? :confuse: Give me a break! One guy reports an electrical system problem that is obviously being caused by moisture getting into his electrical system somehow and it's a Mustang epidemic. A GTO owner reports premature tire wear and it's an isolated incident?? :confuse:
You have said you weren't going to post in this topic anymore AT LEAST 6 times. I sure do wish you would keep your promise because you're full of it. And if I have to see you type "LOL!" one more time, I think I'm going to gouge my own eyes out! :sick:
Thank goodness for that! If it was a luxury car, it wouldn't be a Mustang now would it? Unlike some other cars, the Mustang has remained true to its roots.
I don't know how old this person is, but the level of insecurity creadted by the 2005 Mustang is mind boggling. I have never seen someone get so riled up over a car that they feel discredits theirs.
The GTO is a nice car. The Mustang too. I really don't know what more gunit can accomplish by listing 6 problems from 100,000 cars. I mean, if gunit was driving a Lexus, i would put more weight into arguments such as quality issues. Instead, coming from GM, it is like the pot calling the kettle black...it is to laugh.
The thing is, I will put up with inor annoyances with my Mustang because I love the car. If I wanted perfection, I would have bought a Lexus. And a pillow.
This thread is getting more and more immature. You can discredit Mustang buyers all you want, from being high school kids to not being able to afford a class car like the GTO. My last car cost twice as much as the Mustang, and many others out there just like to have fun. there is no need for arrogance because your car cost a few thousand more, is there?
Like i said both nice cars. If you can sleep better at night without night sweats of a 2005 Mustang, I'll help you out by saying that the GTO is more powerful, has more room and sounds great. How's that?
If I put down my own money, I'd probably be a little perturbed at GM for leaving it "swinging in the breeze", too. In that same vein, you have to wonder how the folks who bought the SSR are feeling, too? Someone mentioned that the Solstice was just delayed. That's hot on the heels of the big GM recall....GM losing marketshare and billions. I'd be a little frustrated at GM, too.
Not a slight to the GTO crowd, but while Ford has had its share of foibles, all this is is becoming more the rule rather than the exception with GM, in general. The Mustang is a very bright spot for Ford that shows what the big auto behemoths can do if they get their act together.
Pontiac is not alone with their general malaise. They are joined by such fabled brands like Mercedes, VW and others.
Along that same line, who would have thought that Renault (of all companies) could turn around Nissan.
The Mustang has been a very pleasant surprise within Ford. I don't mind the alluded post about it's comparison to a Camry. Ford and GM could take some lessons from Toyota (just don't take their advice about "muscle coupes"). Now, if Ford can get their act together with putting an engine worthy of the 500 chassis, they may be on to something. They are already on track with hybrid Escapes. The Mazda 3 platform is one of the best out there. The Focus will use it as is the Volvo subsidiary. There is a light at the end of Ford's tunnel.
GM? Well, the best we can say is wait and see.
If we're talking about the same site, I just went back and checked the thread. Since 4/10, six people have confirmed their cars exhibit this problem and have filed complaints with the NHTSA.
No matter if it's one or six or six hundred, this type of issue is unacceptable on a $30K + vehicle. The margin for error in this price range is very small indeed.
Regarding pricing, I don't know if price was the issue with the GTO. In the low-end of the marketplace, price may be more important. But, where the Mustang and GTO tread, I don't think it's as much of a drawing card.
GTOs did have a bump in sales when GM initially slapped sizeable rebates on them for '04. But, then it trailed off again and dealers were left with too many '04s as leftovers.
I do think people buy "value". Obviously, the value equation was answered with the Mustang considering how well it has sold. It may just be the reaction to the styling that has been the achilles heal for GTO sales rates. Looking at some of the reactions from people, that is probably the #1 "beef" they have. But, you like the styling so it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
The mere fact that this thread exists and is so popular should tell you that the market lumps the GTO and the Mustang GT together. It's probably a fair assumption that the two would be cross shopped. It's probably also fair to say that most of us are quite aware of the price ranges between the two cars. The logical conclusion would be that most people in this market know that they are in the high $20s-low $30s price range when looking to buy.
What we don't know is if the '05 GTO would sell better with more incentives. We'll only know that when we get closer to the end of it's model year and see how many are still lingering (and if GM has to add more incentives to clear them).
I was originally in the market for a new Corvette (which I knew was going to put me in the low $40s range). I would have been in the Corvette if an accident didn't make me shy away from a fiberglass bodied car.
rides better - subjective
irs - yes (pushrods - yes)
better interior - subjective
better build quality? According to......?
Useable back seats (well, they are MORE useable, yes)
Handling is subjective. Track numbers don't describe everything. This is why different reviews come to different conclusions.
Steering feel - uh, I haven't seen the reviewers who preferred the GTO steering response.
Mustang: quick (just not quickER)
better shifter - subjective (though seems to be a fairly universal consensus)
better looks - I'll get to this in a moment
better brakes - subjective
better steering feel - subjective
bigger trunk
cheaper
history/heritage/style
etc. etc. etc.
Blah, blah, blah. Neither car is the "BETTER" car. When will you guys get it through your head? Every car buyer (EVERY ONE) has a different set of criteria; whichever car it is that is a best fit for THEIR criteria is 'best' for THAT person. Haven't you noticed that most of the 'Mustang people' have said, repeatedly, that the GTO is a good car? I've said it; I know gguy has said it several times. I'll say it again: the GTO is a good car. As a matter of fact, I think it represents a good value (if your priority is performance) Guess what? The Mustang is a 'good car' too. And for some people (apparently a lot of people), the Mustang is a 'better' car......for THEM.
Why? In this segment, style counts for a lot. You can deny it all you want but it counts. The Mustang has it (though you may not recognize it); the GTO doesn't. The Mustang is INSTANTLY recognizeable as a Mustang; it won't be confused with a Focus, or a Taurus, or a Lincoln, or anything else. Even people who can't tell the difference between a Camry and a Regal know INSTANTLY what the Mustang is. You guys can't tell the difference between a V6 and a GT? What do you expect: different bodies? How many people could tell the difference between a Z28, SS Camaro, and V6 Camaro? Oh, that's right.....badges.
The GTO? Anonymous. Bland. Typical mid-90's GM soap bubble. It.....ain't....got....no....style. Now for a lot of people, this is a good thing: cop's eyes just kinda slide off of it, kids in Integras don't harass you, sleeper's are kinda cool in their own right. In this sense, it is very much like the original GTO. If you like the anonymous look, GREAT. More power to you. For you, the GTO is 'better'.
Why is it so important that 'your' car be declared 'better'? You either like your car or not; who cares what everybody else thinks.
Agreed.......I don't need nor want any outside approval and/or justification for my Mustang purchase (although there just so happens to be plenty of it from the automotive media, professional testers and about 190,000 other enthusiasts this year).
And then someone started up this forum and it was pretty cool. People started letting it all hang out. And it was good! But personally I'm ready to go back to the GTO forum. I know how you feel you know how I feel. I'm getting the feeling that gunit is pro GTO. Everything's been said. Once in awhile there is something new to comment on. I think I'm going to check out LS1GTO and see what's going on there and get some real world feedback.
In all frankness, I do like the GTO. That's why it was on my "short list".
We just both made different choices for different reasons. That's what makes the world go-round.
I agree with you. I don't see much more here to dissect.
Best of luck with your GTO. I know you'll enjoy it.
What irks me though is usually, not always, the comparisons are done between a GTO and the stripped down version of the Mustang. For the sake of objectivity I would think one would test comparably equiped cars. But I know the answer to that. The Mustang is so popular there aren't any loaded GTs available for testing.
Apparently Edmunds is getting reading to do a head to head comparison between the '05 GTO and......
......the Subie WRX STi. Carl had the GTO on Tuesday night and the STi last night.
The union is going to bankrupt GM within the next two years. At that point it won't matter about the GTO. It's a shame.
GM wonders why they have so many sales problems - get some modern looks and quality. Good looks and quality sells cars.
At least the Mustang has something America can be proud of that offers both the looks, price and quality.
But once the GTO has returned to the Defunct Musclecar Hall of Fame and the GTO owners start needing some hard to find (and expensive to replace) imported parts (body panels and other odds and ends), they'll be thinking, "Dang! I should've layed my brand bias aside and bought that Mustang GT when I had the chance." :P
:confuse:
300c srt-8 available with a stick shift? Is the handling, braking, steering feel up to the GTO? What Mustang-like qualities does the srt-8 have that the GTO doesn't? Are you saying that if you were cross-shopping the Mustang and the 300c, that you wouldn't even consider the GTO based on.........? Styling alone?
Theoretically the 1964 GTO wasn't a REAL GTO either, it was a rebadged Lemans with more powerfull engine, badging, etc.
Give it a rest.
This discussion is about the new Mustang and the new GTO.
Thanks!
Claire
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Actually the GTO will outsell the 300C SRT8 for 2005 by nearly 2 to 1 ratio. 12,000 GTO and 5,000 SRT8 for 2005 production. They are BOTH low production cars. The SRT8 is a nice car no doubt. Glad we have a lot of choices in american muscle.
Traditionally real muscle cars have 2 doors and manual trans, so by those definitions, SRT8 isn't a muscle car in the true sense.
I'd most definitely take a 300C SRT-8 over a GTO, but had (the right) one been available, I would've probably taken one over the Mustang GT, too! No doubt about it that I would take a Magnum SRT-8 over all three of those. The only negative I can think of with the SRT-8 cars is the horrendous fuel economy. But the saying goes, "With cars like these, who's worried about fuel economy?" :shades:
Stop the presses!! :mad: A 4.9/5.0 SRT-8/GTO 0-60 is nearly identical and a "drivers' race," but you guys argue that a 5.0/5.1 GTO/GT 0-60 is a thrashing?? :confuse: Talk about hypocritical. :surprise:
Mustang-GTO would be a good drivers race. No doubt.