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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO
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Comments
Mustangs are a dime a dozen - getting to be just about every other car you see is another Mustang.
Just like the SUV craze.
Some people prefer to have a little more individuality.
Where's the individuality in owning a GTO when every other GTO will be exactly like yours, save for the color? What interior options do you get besides color? What stereo options? Engine options? Trim levels?
Yep, I want to preserve my individuality. So I'm going to go buy a GTO that's exactly like every other GTO and looks like every other GTO.
Gimme a break. You can get more "individuality" with a Honda Accord.
V6 Deluxe
V6 Premium
GT Deluxe
GT Premium
V6 Convertible Deluxe
V6 Convertible Premium
GT Convertible Deluxe
GT Convertible Premium
V6 Deluxe w/ Sport Appearance Pkg
V6 Premium w/ Interior Upgrade Pkg
GT Deluxe w/ Sport Appearance Pkg
GT Premium w/ Interior Upgrade Pkg
GT Deluxe w/ Interior Color Accent Pkg
and so on and so forth.
All told, I believe there are 27 different configurations you can get a Mustang and I don't think that's even including the different wheel options.
Versus...
GTO w/ automatic
GTO w/ manual
The GTO is almost the ultimate "me too"-mobile. A measly 12,000 and every one of them is just like the other except for transmission and, maybe, wheels. Yep! That's what I call individuality. :confuse: That would make for one of the most boring car shows ever. :sick:
How blind do you have to be to not be able to tell the difference between a V6 Mustang and a GT; the front being the most obvious. You've got those huge foglights on the front of the GT, not to mention the whole front fascia isn't the same as the V6. On the sides, there's those large GT letters and the wheels unique to the GT. Then at the rear, there are dual exhaust outlets. Oh, almost forgot, the GT has subtle ground effects all around, whereas the V6 does not. And you can hear a GT go by, whereas the V6 is pretty silent. What more do you guys need?
I mean, statistically speaking, there would be more GTOs that are laid out exactly the same than there would be Mustangs, colors aside. Throw color in there and, statistically speaking, there WILL be more GTOs exactly alike than Mustangs.
You guys are reaching hard for reasons to put down the Mustang. Just face it, there are an extreme few people that like this GTO. As has been said over and over, the sales prove it. Heck, they put huge incentives on the GTO in it's first year on the market because they couldn't (and still can't) move them like they wanted. On the other hand, a Mustang GT owner could sell his '05 GT for above MSRP. Then you GTO guys want to go all anti-establishment with this "individuality" tripe. Come on. If you wanted individuality, you would've bought a car that actually offers individuality by way of OPTIONS, not lackluster sales.
I do enjoy reading about all the rebates and whatnot that you guys are getting. Next year a person will probably be able to buy a "brand new" '04 GTO for $18K; a car that had an MSRP of $33K+. Next year you will probably still have to pay near MSRP for a used '05 GT. Gotta love the GTO resale. Heck, forget the resale; you gotta love that GTO NEW sale! :P
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As are the personal attacks.
I guess the point this guy is making is - if you own a Mustang you are so insecure about your identity that you need to trash everything and everyone else. That's what happens when you buy a car that everybody and their brother owns.
In 3 months of looking, I have not seen one single 05 GTO on the road - so yeah, the car is unique and very uncommon.
I'll try and remember what the 442Man said - he get's along just fine with the Mustang owners when he goes to events - so I'm sure this person is not representative of most Mustang owners.
You're right.
To this day, whenever I see a GTO on the road, I have to get close to see the badging to make certain what it is. That's not a slam on the car itself, but apparently, most feel the same way about the GTO....otherwise, they would have been more of a "hit" for the General.
The Mustang will never be mistaken for anything but a Mustang (which is quite stylish, indeed).
The Mustang, on the other hand, does stand out from the other cars on the road. Even though they may be more common, that gives them more individuality.
To this day whenever I see a Mustang on the road which is very often, I have to look closely to see if it's a V6 or V8 model. Not much distinction. Nearly 66% of Mustang sales are the V6. You have to remember that not everyone wants a mustang. I don't. I have yet to really see a V8 GT on the road, most V6. As said previously I get along very well at the car shows with the Mustang guys. We bust each others chops! We don't badmouth each other cars us mature people. I have seen some of younger kids badmouth cars.
This has been discussed many times before but the GTO was NEVER meant to be a "hit" for the general. never meant to sell as well as the Mustang. Limited production, 18k per year. That doesn't equate as a hit to me. Lutz wanted to bring back a GTO here for the 1st time in 30yrs. I don't care if it failed, I like it and thats all that matters. It turns more head then you think. I have had just as many people come up to my GTO at the car show as the Mustang guys.
Pontiac wanted to sell 18,000 '04 GTOs. They ended up only selling 14,000-16,000 of them, depending on the source you read. And they only sold that many '04s with big rebates. They lowered production to 12,000 GTOs for '05. Last time I looked, they sold 1,100 in May. While I don't know how many of those were '04s, the GTO is still falling short of the mark as I think they've only sold something like 3,500 of them so far in the '05 model year. For all intents and purposes, they've got to sell about 9,000 more in the next 5 months (till Sept- Oct when the '06 models come out)
Not saying you shouldn't like your car. If I put my hard earned money down for it, I better like it.
This debate has run full circle so many times I'm dizzy.
As for sales - I have never seen an ad for the GTO.
Not one.
Not even in car mags.
Maybe because it would impact Corvette sales....
Sales of the two-door, V-8 GTO coupe with the classic muscle-car name were up 65 percent in April compared with the same month in 2004. And through the first third of the year, GTO sales are up 78 percent.
Mustang/Fbody have among the most deaths per mile in the insurance industry. Also the theft rate for Mustang/Fbody is among the highest in the insurane industry. Check your facts.
GTO doesn't have a history since 1974. I was shocked at how cheap the GTO was to insure. It was less to insure then a 300C hemi or Magnum Hemi Wagon.
Go ahead and tell me what the 2005 Mustant GT gets for resale about 3 yrs from now. Try about 50% loss in value. Typical of all American new cars.
And I'm in Ca. where the price of everything is inflated.
The day I drove mine home (45 mile drive on a major highway), I must have had about 15 mustangs slow down and check it out (I was going the speed limit, breaking it in). So these folks claiming it does not attract attention - I beg to differ. And so far, I would honestly have to say that the majority of the attention I have received has come from mustang drivers.
Interesting...
The '90s Pontiac style of the GTO has been worn quite thin for all of Pontiac's models. You also have to wonder if Pontiac will want two V8 cars in the lineup with the GP getting a V8, too.
I'm very interested in seeing what special editions Ford will give the "go ahead" to build. So far, much has been made of the GT500, which on paper, looks to be quite good. Bullitt? Mach? BOSS? While I couldn't be more pleased with my Mustang, I'd like to see if Ford can entice me with some of the special editions that are rumored.
As the GT500 comes in at just under $40K, with all the success of the Mustang, I can see a $30K Bullitt being quite interesting.
Nice car but it's a $40k Ford Mustang. Too much $$ in my opinion. For the same or not much more $$ I would buy a Corvette. GT500 $39k, Vette $43k. Remember that the GT500 does gain 200 to 300 pounds of added weight while the Corvette Lost weight for new C6 design. Vette is nearly 400 lbs lighter then GT500. We'll have to see how it handles.
I was shopping for a late 60s fastback Mustang as a "hangar queen", but because of the attention brought on by the Nic Cage movie (I suspect), the prices for a decent car were outrageous. Then I saw the new retro-style Mustang was coming out, so I waited for it. I was put off by the rear axle issue, but loved the look.I went to the dealership to try it out, and was disgusted to see that this dealer had a 10k premium on the GT. Knowing things would level out eventually, I went ahead and checked it out. Besides the rear axle, the other thing that put me off was, when I set the seat up for my normal driving position, there was about 2 inches between the front of the back seat and the back of my seat; i.e.completely worthless for people. Of course, I didn't plan on driving it much, but I did want the option of carrying my family on occasion. Anyway, I still loved the car, but decided to wait a while. As I waited, I began to see more and more of them on the road (I drive 120 mile interstate round trip to work). The more I saw, the less interested I was.
Even though I get all of the auto mags, somehow, I had completely overlooked the intro of the new GTO (as had most of the mags). I first became aware of it when reading the backlash of letters in response to the C&D comparo. I immediately liked the car and the idea, a low profile muscle car/sleeper. The more I looked into it, the more I liked it, and after driving one, I hunted down the one I wanted and put the money down (Impulse Blue, Blue int. M6). Paid $31k cash total, no haggle. I absolutely love it; a family car when I need it, a performance car when I want it.
As to the posts so far, I am completely baffled at the insistence of some that more sales is a good thing. Obviously, it is a good thing for Ford, but I don't see how it can be good for the long term value to the customer. Based on the production numbers I have seen, in a very few years, we are going to have conservatively 500k to a million of these new "unique" Mustangs on the road. My guess is that less than five years from now, Mustang owners are going to look around and say, "Hey, why does everybody have the same car I do". Regardless of how many configurations the car can be ordered in, it is still visually the same car. Then the used car market is going to be flooded. The way I see it, Ford's rush to keep production in line with demand is not good for those who bought their Mustang early thinking they had something special. I suspect the same will be true for the Shelby and others, i.e. too accessible.
Obviously, the slow sales of the GTO are not good for GM, but I think it is very good for those of us who chose to not follow the crowd. It will be interesting to see how things progress, but if the GTO is truly dead after 2006, there will likely be less than 20K LS2 GTOs on the road. At some point, I believe car fans and press are going to wake up and realize that they missed out on unique opportunity in automotive history.
This new Mustang craze seems like one more faddish trend, and I shy away from anything trendy. Although I quietly support all of the worthy causes I can, I do not have a plastic yellow bracelet, nor do I have magnetic yellow ribbons and flags on my vehicles. The Mustang is being marketed as a car for the masses, and I see the GTO as a car for those with more individual tastes.
Read somewhere that Ford is already making suspension Improvements for the 2006 Mustang, to reduce vibrations. Wonder why?
Even more so with the GTO since it only comes basically one way. And the V6 and GT are quite different from one another, and the GT500 will be even further distinguished.
This new Mustang craze seems like one more faddish trend, and I shy away from anything trendy.
Forty two years later and this faddish trend is still rolling along. Surely it has to end eventually. America liked it then and America likes it now. Remember, the Mustang sold a million copies in its first couple of years of existence. What do you think you would have to pay to get one of those today in good, original condition?
The GTO is more akin to a faddish trend as it will be going off life support after the '06 model year. But I'm sure GM thought the Mustang was a fad, too, when it first debuted. That's probably why they were two years late getting in the game. Even then they probably still considered the Mustang a fad, but look at the Mustang now. Where are the F-bodies? Horsepower for horsepower's sake is the fad. The F-bodies out muscled the Mustang for most of their existence, but they're still gone. The GTO far out muscles the Mustang, but it is being handed its hat and coat as well. Again, the Mustang will be the one left to turn off the lights after the party. Many have challenged; all have been defeated.
The Mustang's is a classic tale of the tortoise and the hare if there ever was one. There have been countless fire-breathing, smoke snorting, muscle-bound beasts that could mop the floor w/ the Mustang over the years. But where are they now?
It's all about appealing to the masses. That's why the Mustang has the largest aftermarket than any other car. You could literally build a factory spec Mustang from aftermarket parts, but anyway...
The bottom line is that the Mustang is here to stay. The Mustang is a part of American culture; past, present, and future.
The GTO probably would have been a great success had GM not decided to desecrate a powerful name with such a mundane looking car.
I wonder why, too. That's the first I (and I'm sure every other Mustang owner) have heard of any vibration. :confuse: Do you have a link to that, or at least a credible reference?
2005 GTO is the MOST powerfull GTO ever made. Same can't be said for 2005 Mustang. Oh you mean like how Ford desecrated the Mustang name with the embarassing 1974 to 1978 Mustang on the Pinto chassis. 1974 didn't even offer a V8 engine. Most power was 140hp in those years, LOL! A real joke. Even the 1974 GTO at least had a 5.7L V8 with 200 or 250hp.
GTO was NEVER meant to be a great sales success for GM here, limited production car. How times does this have to be said? It is a great sales success in Austrailia. Hate to break the news but the 1964 GTO was very mundane looking... Just a rebadged Tempest. Knowone complains about that.
The idea of the original GTO was to stuff a big high performance V8 into a midsized family car. Same thing as now.
The Corvette is still here, came out in 1953.
Ford actually has a TSB out for creaking, popping, vibration thud sounds from the 2005 Mustang suspension.
Try the Mustang problems and solutions boards. Many complaints on there about vibrations problems. My 2005 V6 Rentastang had the same problem.
Just out of curosity, I counted the mustangs on the road this morning on my commute which is 25 miles along the coast and into San Francisco.
16 mustangs.
16 - in 25 miles.
Hey, if you want to fit in - get a mustang and join the crowd.
Nobody is disputing that this GTO is the most powerful GTO ever. And nobody is disputing that this GT isn't the most powerful Mustang ever. What's your point? You guys, and apparently GM, too, just don't get it. Horsepower isn't everything, as proven by Fords inability to keep up with the demand for its "clearly inferior" Mustangs. And before you go on the "Well, they just can't afford..." STOP. The way I've been reading it, you can get a brand new '04 GTO for less than and an '05 GTO for very near the same as an '05 GT, but people are still opting for the GT. Wonder why? :confuse:
Also, let's not forget that the GTO was always a hotted up version of a bland car. It was just an option package. What American made/sold car is this GTO based on? Nothing. And as bland as it is, I'd hate to even imagine how boring the car it would be based on would have to be. Bleh. A new malibu, maybe?
And what do you mean the GTO was never meant to be a great sales success? :surprise: That is the whole point of manufacturers making sales projections.
With the Mustang, on the other hand, you'll be hard pressed to find a GT for less than MSRP for now; new or used.
I remember watching an introduction of the new GTO to a GTO owners club on SPEED channel. Those guys were about as cold to it as they could be. You could see the disappointment in their eyes. The GM guy actually looked embarrassed when he got out of it.
Hmm, so you get in a car that has way better build quality and one of the nicest interiors out there, and then you drive it and it completely spanks your old car and most new cars out there, but you end up looking embarrassed when you get out of it? Please. Everyone that actually drives a GTO loves it after. The haters are still the ones that insists on reading magazine reviews and not actually touching the car.
Try driving a car with 400 horses - one thing is most definitely ain't is boring.
Mind you, this was a GM sponsored club meet.
And you should have quoted, or at least read, my entire post. I plainly stated that you guys just don't get it, in that HP isn't everything. It is mainly just about bragging rights. Maybe when you get a little older, you will. Besides, a GTO isn't exactly going to be "running away" from a GT in a street race. She's kinda portly, ya know. I define running away as 10+ car lengths.
Point blank, the GTO strikes ZERO emotion in anybody, including the owners. You guys have more emotion about the Mustang than you do your own car. And your comment about everyone loving the GTO after driving it can just as easily be applied to the Mustang. Ask pretty much anybody who has actually driven the new Mustang and they will say it's great. Of course GTO owners won't, I'm sure, even if they did like it.
GTO owner: I don't like that Mustang because it has that old, antiquated solid rear axle. And the engine is WEAK.
Other guy: But they did a lot of work on it. It actually outperforms the outgoing Cobra with it's IRS. Hey, let me check out what you got under your hood.
GTO owner: Nah, don't worry about that. It's powerful. Let's just talk about the Mustang's solid rear axle.
Other guy: But wait. Isn't your engine the same basic Chevy small block V8 with pushrod technology that they've been using for 50 years?
GTO owner: Don't you worry about that! It's powerful. Now back to the Mustang's solid rear axle.
Other guy: I don't want to talk about that anymore. It's getting old already.
GTO owner: Well let's talk about how they just copied an old design and didn't use any originality with this Mustang.
Other guy: Wait. Hasn't Porsche been using the same basic design for the 911 for 30 years? Nobody's complaining about that.
GTO owner: Man, later for you!! I'm going to go burn rubber and do some 170MPH speed runs on the freeway in my awesome GTO!
Other guy: Well, good luck with that.
GTO owner: I don't need luck! My car is so run-of-the-mill looking, the cops won't even notice me. And that's just the way I like it! Nobody spends $30K plus on a sporty car to be noticed. Sporty cars are about being able to pull double duty as a family hauler and long distance cruiser, not aggressive looks and crisp handling. Back seat space is everything in this class of vehicle!
Other guy: :confuse:
:shades: :P
Interesting you should say that as I've been thinking - there's no talking to these Mustang youngsters.
And you are right - it is not all about HP.
I love the interior of my GTO.
I think the exterior is totally hot looking but in an understated, classy way.
About the only thing I don't like is the operating slowness in moving the front seats forward and I can live with that.
I think what you 'just don't get' is the concept of 'to each his own'. We like GTO's and I have not seen any of the GTO folks trashing the Mustang or the Mustang drivers. In fact, I think there have been a few efforts made to say - hey, the Mustang is a nice car & Mustang people are cool.
You guys on the other hand, are all about personal attacks, trashing the car, etc.
It's cool to debate the issue, but kept it respectful.
You're arguments just might get heard that way.
The Aztec and GTO look nothing alike. Where did Pontiac drop the ball? Holden created the body design for 2002 in Austrailia.
....."'s and 442 were common sights 30 years ago and nobody paid much attention to them either..."
Not as common as the Mustangs 30 yrs ago, but yeah they were as noticeable as some might think, I agree
Then why did JD Power chose the GTO over the Mustang as it's Best appealing Sporty Car? huh? Both Mustang and GTO owners were surveyed within 90 days of ownership! I guess the GTO owners had more satisfaction, according to JD pwr
Speak for yourself, but GTO strikes emotion in me and I am an owner. I was of driving age when GTO's were new back in early 1970's, I love both the new and old ones.