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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO
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Comments
That reminds me. I learned to drive on a 1990 Lincoln Continental, which was based on a stretched Taurus platform. It had IRS. That car handled like....well, it didn't really handle at all. Interestingly, for the point of this discussion, my parents replaced that car with a 96 Maxima SE, with a solid beam rear suspension. That car handles worlds better, and, also interestingly, better than many IRS-equipped cars of its time. So yeah, you can't validly make blanket statements about a cars' handling based soley on suspension design...Maybe I'll try out a Mustang GT. The roads around here are TERRIBLE. Any weakness would show up within half a mile of the Ford dealer.
On the street, off a light, I have $5 that says an 05 GTO with the automatic would beat the 05 stang 5-speed, every single time.
consider yourself down $5
Absolutely. Give it a shot, preferably back-to-back with the GTO. Of course, handling is only one aspect of the overall's car performance and you may find that other aspects, of either car, are more important to you.
BTW - don't feed the troll....
There is a Ford dealer up the road (just dropped off a co-worker there) and I think Pontiac is next door. That said, I have driven an 04 GTO M6 in Jan 04, but...that was a year and a half ago. I do remember mostly how the car felt though, but I drove it only on smooth roads.
BTW - don't feed the troll....
My bad.
GM "claims" the '05 automatic is faster, but I've yet to see any non-biased, independent tests confirm that.
I've only driven manual versions of either the GTO or the Mustang GT, so I have no first hand knowledge of either one in automatic trim.
The auto 05 GTO is quicker (through the quarter mile) than the manual GTO, but will fall behind after that. If you see the gearing between the two (I don't have the numbers off the top of my head), it is easy to understand why.
0-130, Mustang 25.6, GTO 19.6. A huge difference in top end power. The GTO will start running away from the Mustang before the end of the 1/4 mile and it will leave it in the dust from 100+ mph.
I don't own either of these cars, and I have only briefly driven the 05 GTO. Haven't been able to test a GT yet, there aren't any in my area. Even with all that power, the GTO's steering bothered me enough that I was very disappointed in the car. Very slow turn in. In tight low speed corners, it seemed like I turned the wheel and had to wait before the car responded.
The Mustang GT has more of a sports car edge and the GTO has more of a cruiser edge. It all depends on what you want, IMHO. Drive them on the same day, if at all possible. That will highlight the differences the best and help you make up your mind on what you prefer.
There is no doubt in my mind that the GTO will have a higher top end. I don't know if it's artificially speed limited, but I know the Mustang is.
All that said, I've only had my Mustang above 140 MPH once. It had more to give, but that was fast enough for me. I don't see the need to go there again. For the record, it felt like it was going 80 MPH at the time and really "hunkered down" at anything above 100 MPH, but things happen with lightening quickness at those elevated speeds. Anything in/on/around the road that could cause trouble would be magnified as far as your reaction times to avoid any sort of debris that could cause a nasty accident.
I've never attempted to drive any GTO at those elevated speeds. I don't know how the softer suspension would affect trying to negotiate elevated triple digit speeds.
I only recommend the top end speeds, on either car, be attempted on a closed and clear road.
I am actually ok with this. From what I remember about my 04 GTO test drive, "GT cruiser" is a better description for it than sports car. Ironically, the Mustang is the one with the GT moniker
For the record, it felt like it was going 80 MPH at the time and really "hunkered down" at anything above 100 MPH, but things happen with lightening quickness at those elevated speeds.
That lightning quickness you speak of is most likely a direct result of that highly coveted quick steering ratio. Now, I am also a fan of quick steering ratios, but if the car is going to turn in at 40mph in the blink of an eye (you've led me to believe it does), then at 140mph, I hope you have both hands on the steering wheel. The Mustang really doesn't strike me as the autobahn type of vehicle, anyway.
I've never attempted to drive any GTO at those elevated speeds. I don't know how the softer suspension would affect trying to negotiate elevated triple digit speeds.
Like I mentioned above, I think the GTO would be the better choice for autobahn-style driving. What does that mean for drivers in the US? Largely nothing, I was just pointing something out.
Grand Turismo literally means "big tourer". The "GT"O certainly has the "big" part of the equation down. I suppose it depends on your definition of what a "tourer" is.
I took my Mustang GT to the KY Derby (about a 300 mile round trip). Frankly, I was quite surprised at how comfortable, fast, quiet (for a car with a rumbling V8), and great handler it was on mostly highway work. I would imagine the GTO would be the same. Where I really enjoyed the GT's handling capabilities were on the winding back roads of KY countryside.
Rarely do I get any car into the tripple digit speed ranges. When I do, I always make a point of having both hands on the wheel, in the 10-2 position, since anything that might require any sudden steering input is coming at you very fast.
One of my favorite traits of the Mustang GT is its "point and shoot" capabilities. That is, finding a hole in traffic and aiming it for an open hole. Usually it's done going from 30 to 50 or 50 to 80 (or 70 -100) MPH while using the quick steering to hit th hole and accelerate. That's where the quick steering and the flat suspension really shines. The only other better "point and shoot" car I've ever driven was the RX8. The Mustang gets close to it, though.
With the GTO, there was a tendency to "overshoot-undershoot" the desired position (or hole). That's a trait of the steering and the softer suspension of the GTO.
I'll be the first to admit that I put a lot of stock in how a car handles.....probably much more so than most. I'll forgive a firmer ride if the handling is there to back it up.
Either car would make a fine "tourer" in my estimation, however. Neither car crashes over broken pavement and both dampen well. The Mustang just has more controlled handling than the GTO. Part of that can be attributable to the weight, part of that the steering and part of that is the way GM "tuned" suspension.
Hitting a "sweeper" that has broken pavement at elevated speeds would tend to cause the wheels to leave the pavement momentarily. While neither the Mustang, nor the GTO does that, the GTO does exhibit "lean" in those types of scenarios. The Mustang stays flat and controlled in the same situations.
I do believe that Ford "tweaked" the solid rear from initial models that were tested by C&D, for example. Initially, C&D said they occasionally caught the Mustang "side-stepping" over sweepers that were bumpy. They, when they tested again (the convertible, I believe) they found no such behavior. I've never experienced that behavoir either. None of the other people on the 4-5 Mustang boards I read have mentioned it either. So, I'll assume Ford made subtle changes to the production versions of the GT before it got into our hands.
The Mustang, at 70 MPH is turning about 2K RPM in 5th gear. I've hit 24 MPG on a road trip, but in all city driving, that drops to about 17-19 MPG (depnding on how "stop & go" traffic is). Admittedly, I keep my foot in in most of the time, though.
While I didn't test the 6th gear passing times of the GTO when on the highway, I'd be curious how it responds when you have to go from, let's say 65 MPH to 75 MPH to pass. It wouldn't be a problem for me to drop down a cog or two for passing.
I had to do that all the time when passing on the highway in my RX8, so I got used to it and rather enjoyed it. In know in the Mustang, it has plenty of grunt to pass in 5th, but out of habit, I still drop it down to 4th if I'm looking for a huge upper MPH burst.
I've been followin up on the 05 stang vs goat wars you guys have been battling and I can tell ya from a younger guys perspective, the stang IS a beautiful performance machine but come on!!! 400hp with a back seat. It just don't get too much better than that ladies. end of story.
On the Mustang, I only use 5th at 60 MPH and above. I'm probably penalizing my MPG, but that's not the reason we bought these cars to begin with, is it?
How do you feel about the GM employee pricing that was just announced? Good? Bad? Anything changing for the '06 models?
I know with the Mustang, the only changes for '06 will be a few colors and the availability of 18" tires/wheels (most go aftermarket for those, though).
I tried a couple of things on the way in to work today (I start at 6am so its not rush hour) First since I usually drive 70 on the freeway, I dropped it down to 5th to check the rpms. It was 2700. Next I went from 70 or so up to 100 just to check the acceleration. Keep in mind this wasn't full throttle. I never drive full throttle. It wasn't bad but I wasn't exactly pinned to the seat. It took about 10 seconds. Next time, from 70 I will drop it down to 5th gear and then see how it accelerates to 100.
I was excited about the GM employee pricing until Hammen or somebody said it was better last month. The deal I had was $500 over invoice, the $1K incentive and the dealer through in another $1K. Its still going to cost me a bundle to upgrade. I read that Ford is dropping production by 17K units and GM by 100K. That can only drive down prices. As soon as I find one that I like I am going for it. Some of them feel sluggish to me so I'm waiting for one that feels fresh like the first one I drove.
New for '06 are a couple of colors, another power outlet, and a button on the console to lock and unlock the doors. The last one should have been on the car from the beginning. It only costs $495 (from the dealer) to upgrade the tires to 18's. I've seriously thought about it, but you know what, the way I drive I really don't need them. Still it would be cool.
I got used to that with the RX8.....where it didn't "wake-up" until about 4K RPM and had a 9K RPM redline.
Road, traffic, weather and police willing, I'm rarely under 80-MPH on the highway and usually 15 MPH - 20 MPH over the posted speedlimit in town. I rely a lot on my Passport. Knock on wood, I haven't had any thing even close to an accident or ticket in over 10 years.
Make no mistake, GM is in trouble and Ford isn't far behind. I think the employee pricing would be good for those who wanted a GTO (not so good if you already qualify for GMS as I do.....we'd rather see more rebates AND GMS).
I hope both Ford and GM get their act together. I know the Mustang won't be going away. It's my hope that the General sees fit to continue development on the GTO, regardless of the platform it uses.
That said, next year I'll be in the market for a truck (to replace my Vibe/Matrix). In my estimation, no one makes a better truck than either GM or Ford......period.....regardless of that stuff that Honda or Toyota has brought to market pretending to be trucks (I guess we have to throw Nissan into the mix, too....not that I'd consider their trucks).
Interior: the GTO has the stang beat hands down, no questions about it. The mustang is nice, but let's face it, it ain't luxury.
Exterior: Mustang, no question. GM could and should have done so much better with the exterior of the GTO. When I first saw the Mustang it hit a nerve, when I see the GTO I think "blah". Flame away on the understated style, yadda, yadda, yadda.
I didn't sit in the backseat of the goat, but just for kicks today I climbed into the back of the stang (I'd actually never been back there). It was OK, obviously not somewhere I'd want to ride on a long trip, but actually more comfortable than the rear seat of a full size extended cab pickup. I didn't look at the trunk on the goat, but the mustang is pretty good, and with the rear seats folded down there's actually a lot of room.
I'm a GM guy at heart, I hated mustangs from 73 to 04. If I had it to do over again would I buy the stang again? You bet. Would I pay $5k+ more to have a nicer interior and marginally better performance? Nope.
I think it's ridiculous to even compare the two cars on a perf. basis, since the GTO has 33% more ponies, it SHOULD perform better than the stang. In fact, if I owned one I'd be disappointed that it doesn't beat the stang by more than it does.
Flame away...
out and about, provided you actually HAVE a life.
Me personally, I like the fact that pontiac didn't decide to go too retro, Im a progressive kinda guy what can I say. The mustang, looker, yes but what else???
Just Know this, that 33% more pony than that little pony logo in front of your car WILL eat you alive, off a light,on the highway, Wherever, and the guy whose driving, WILL flick you off and eat you again at the next light.
No hard feelings, after all, ya get what ya pay for, if your faster your faster. End of story.
Consider yourself BURNED.
Umm, no.
Does New Beetle, PT Cruiser, Thunderbird, or Chevy SSR ring any bells? Mustang is simply the LATEST in the current crop of retro cars. IMO, it is certainly the best of the retro cars, but it certainly isn't the first.
"...new buyers are paying 10k more for that 33% more ponies."
Only if they have rocks in their heads. MSRP for the GTO is around $33k. I think the last time the average Joe paid MSRP for a GTO was, ummm, the first 3 days the '04 models arrived. OTOH, deals on new Mustang GT's are few and far between. And good luck actually FINDING one (a 'base' GT no less) for the theoretical price of $25k.
Caparably equipped, the two cars are probably around $2-4k difference in selling price. That's a far cry from $10k.
Believe what you will. Makes no never mind to me.
Performance is so close, it's a driver's race.....at most!
That 100HP difference on the GTO is eaten up by 300+ pounds more weight and a less than precise shifter (in comparison). Plus, there's more than circumstantial evidence that the Mustang is putting out closer to 320HP and is underated at 300HP.
All that explains that the '04 GTO (with 350 HP) is a couple of 1/10ths slower than the '05 Mustang and the '05 GTO (100HP) is only a tenth or two faster than the '05 Mustang GT. To me, the numbers are so close between the '05 Mustang GT and either the '04 or '05 GTO that it really is of no significance.
Again, believe what you will, though.
I actually did run it against a Corvette leaving a nearby city a few weeks ago, knew I was outmatched, but did it for fun (don't know why you'd feel the need to flip someone off if you beat 'em, maybe you need to grow up) rolling start at about 65, stayed right there to about 120-125, then he walked away from me. Was I surprised? Yeah, I was surprised that the Mustang stayed as close as it did to 120. Was I pissed that I lost? No. Was it fun anyway? OH YEAH!!! Did he flip me off? No, he waved with all his fingers, it was fun for both of us.
Well you can believe what you want, because in real life and not the life of magazine racing, the 350hp 04 GTO has been proven faster than the 05 Mustang. Against the 05 GTO, there is no contest.
And it really is amazing how the GTO fanatics are bragging over a 10th of a second. And if you put a turbo on a civic, it still wouldn't be able to beat a stock Mustang. Just face it, the GTO is an overpriced grand prix. If pontiac wants to continue selling cars, they really need to change the looks of the Grand Am, GTO, Boneville, and Grand Prix. They all look alike. What other Ford does the mustang look like? Or how bout the Thunderbird, or even the focus?
From the sounds of your posts, I suspect you've yet to be on a track....in anything.
Trying to take a swipe at the Mustang as somehow being a "lower quality" car is just nonsense.
Drive what you like, though. That's always the case.
It's a blast to drive - just steppin on that accelerator and getting that incredible response - is a total rush.
The Mustang performs well enough and looks fabulous, but until the new GT500 Shelby arrives it will get eaten up alive by Subaru's WXRi and Pontiac's GTO.
Best part about the LS2 is that the engine has SOOO much potential. It doesn't even need a blower. An LS2 with a hot cam, headers and a free flowing air intake would put down 450rwhp. That's another reason I'd pick the GTO, just for the mod potential. PCM, too. Where's the tools to tune a Ford PCM? Maybe OBD-I fox body mustangs but who cares about those.