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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • Quote:
    To me, that difference is insignificant and certainly couldn't/shouldn't be duplicated on the street

    What I was trying to point out is that the time slips show that the 04 GTO started of a bit worse than the 05 GT (for all intents a purposes, they were the same). It then managed to pulled ahead and kept pulling ahead slightly, as shown by the 1000' and 1/4 mile times. To me this says that the 04 GTO out accelerated the 05 GT (also, I was being pretty easy on the shifting, wheel spin was definately a factor even going into 4th).

    Yes it is a small difference but is an indicator.

    Yes there are guys running the 05 GT in to the mid 13's, but there are also guys running the 04 GTO in to the low 13's.

    When the new mustang came out and I saw one or two on the road, I thought they looked pretty good. The more I see them the more it looks inconsistent with the styling. Sometimes when I see one at a certain angle or color, it really makes me go 'Ewww!' A lot is personal preference, but my coworkers, who loved the new style, are starting to say the same thing. I hand it to Ford, the style was a marketing coop, but I think it is going to get old fast. Also where do they go from here? Retro the 1971 fastback look? I just don't see an obvious direction that the design can go from here.

    One of the things I really like about the GTO styling is it is not an 'in your face' look. Most people don't give it a second glance until they hear the exhaust (this includes boys in blue). With my new wheels and tires, the looks have changed, but the car is still overlooked by most people.
    http://www.bobthephotoguy.com/Rims/

    Anyways....

    discussion and debate is always fun. :-)

    Bob
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I haven't had time to read all of/digest your post, but wanted to point out a couple of things.

    First, I have seen an instrument panel photo from a GTO at 177 mph. The tach is where it should be at this point, so I don't think it's a Photoshop (if it is, it's a very good one - I work for a commercial printing company and see lots of Photoshopped images on a daily basis). On another discussion board there are GTO owners in the armed services who regularly make 165+ mph runs on the Autobahn.

    Second, you say the GTO is not a muscle car and make the comment "back seat. What back seat?" You must have the Mustang and GTO confused. It is the GTO which seats 4 adults, not the Mustang. I have had 3 good-sized passengers in my GTO - getting in and out is a bit of a PITA, but once in it's very comfortable That's one reason why I could NOT ever buy a Mustang - and it's another reason why the GTO plays to a little different market than the Ford. I will also take issue with the trunk size - sure it's small - but I buy groceries and don't have any issue fitting them in the trunk. I can also go away for a weekend and fit anything and everything I and my wife need in the GTO. If we're going away for longer we'll take her Envoy :-)

    Everybody here needs to take a step back and realize that there is NO empirical "BETTER THAN" vehicle. It's up to each individual to make their own decision what is important to them. If you want the best stock performance, and not just in a straight line, the GTO is probably your car. If you want lowest price, it's the Mustang. If you need 4 passengers, it's the GTO. If you need a huge trunk, it's the Mustang. You have to evaluate what criteria are important to you.

    --Robert
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Jae5 wrote........Yes the last Impala SS was a 3-year car too, but only due to typical GM, pulling the plug on b-body to build more trucks. Plus, those cars were reasonably price, the market was known, and every last one sold. There were no crazy markups, the car had the “look”, nice stance and drive-train to boot and they improved upon it each year by listening to the customer wants. And as you will note, many are still getting at or near original selling price. Can’t say the same of this car. ........

    There are NO 1994 to 1996 Impala SS that are getting at or near their original $25k selling price!! There is a 1996 for sale by me with about 40k orig miles mint condition and they are asking $13k for it. 50% of it's orig price! LOL! All cars depreciate unless they are classics
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Actually if you want a BIG trunk you wouldn't buy either the Mustang or GTO, LOL! I fit my 2 yr olds stroller, diaper bag and our groceries, luggate etc in there. you learn to pack the essentials, LOL! Yeah the GTO trunk is small because they had to relocate the gas tank for US safety there, but it still gets the job done for us. If I need a bigger trunk I use our Infiniti luxury sedan which haa a nearly 16 cu ft trunk!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    jae5 wrote........Did it need a “true” rear dual-exhaust, not a dual system that fed into a dual-tipped, single muffler? Yeah. Did it and GM miss the mark? Yeah. And this is not just coming from me, but from original GTO owners, buying public, those thinking of buying, mags, forums, etc. ........

    The 2005 GTO has a true REAL dual exhaust system from the engine back. Not sure what you are talking about a dual tipped single muffler? Whatever.... In my opinion it has a better sound then the 2005 Mustang GT. Car and Driver said it sounded angrier then Msutang, LOL! The sound from my 2005 GTO sounds similar to the GTO's of the 1960's that I remember. Pretty impressive for a stock factory exhaust sound! Sounds better then the vettes
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Jae, you expressed concern about the GTO having the gas tank in a steel cage behind the back seat.

    First and foremost, the Monaro, up until 2005, had the gas tank behind the rear axle (between it and the bumper). There aren't a lot of fiery rear-end collisions in Oz, but GM felt compelled to move the tank inside the trunk (boot) to satisfy safety concerns. After all, Ford has had issues for years with rear-end collisions (think Pintos and Crown Victorias, especially cop cars).

    If you'd ever pulled back the lining around the GTO's fuel tank, you will see that the steel structure is VERY thick and VERY strong - just like a lot of race cars.

    On most cars, the fuel tank is under the rear seat, not in a steel cage. On the GTO it's behind the rear seat, inside the steel cage. I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd have NO issues with putting them back there - probably safer than in your average sedan, again, with the tank under the rear seat.

    --Robert
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    jae5 wrote......7. Pricing/Market: Again, a strange and contradicting topic. Many of you state that the price of the GTO is comparable to the Mustangs, how so? The GTO stickers for thousands more than the Mustang. The GTO is in the $31K - $33K range w/o the markup. Mustang GT’s like $26 - $28K. Second, many of you bought less than that, which is good, but you bought due to heavy incentives, which you bragged about getting, even telling each other about the offers and how to work it. My question and tell the truth please, without these incentives, how many of you would have bought the car?......

    Jae5, I would NEVER pay MSRP for a GTO and I would NEVER pay MSRP for a Mustang either neither car is worth that....... I don't pay MSRP for any car and I never buy the first year of any car, esp American ones , wait for the bugs to be worked out and for the demand to dro therefore price will drop. I prefer leftovers myself. Same thing happened with the retro Tbird, dealers trying to charge $10k over MSRP, and some idiots were paying it too, LOL! They had to be FIRST.

    Remember the VW NEW Beetle when it came out in 1997 or 1998? People were paying MSRP or higher to get it and be first. Remember people were selling them used 2 months later and getting nearly what they paid back for. Guess what? Today you can buy one for under MSRP for a good price. Or a used 1 yr old one for 25% off. Don't always be first, because you are going to pay top dollar. As I say now for the MILLIONTH time, these cars just depreciate one way or the other, lets see next yr what the 2005 mustang is worth. It will drop in price! I would wait until 2006 or later unless you have a good Ford employee discount or something !
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ...

    The 2005 GTO has a true REAL dual exhaust system from the engine back. Not sure what you are talking about a dual tipped single muffler? Whatever.... In my opinion it has a better sound then the 2005 Mustang GT. Car and Driver said it sounded angrier then Msutang, LOL! The sound from my 2005 GTO sounds similar to the GTO's of the 1960's that I remember. Pretty impressive for a stock factory exhaust sound! Sounds better then the vettes


    He's talking about the '04 GTO. And I would hope that a 5.7L V8 would sound "angrier" than a 4.6L V8.
  • andyandy Posts: 23
    Ok since your argument is that in actual street driving the GTO performance is about the same as the Ford. Since you are making a more practical real world argument, here is my practical real world answer for the following points.

    1) suspension: GTO is smoother and its IRS is more comfortable than the GT
    2) Roomy: as already stated the back seat is much larger.
    3) Interior: you even state yourself that the GTO is of high quality but other GMNA interiors stink. Maybe so, but that is totally irrelevant. I don't think there is anyone that would claim the GT has equal quality of plastics and leathers than the GTO.
    4) Price: why talk sticker prices. can we talk actual typical transaction prices. 05 GTOs go for a bit under 30k and 04's for under 25k, GTs are going for sticker which is about 28k. Not much difference. In 2 years when GTs are 5k off, than you might have an argument that the GT is a better value.
    5) Gotta have it factor is that initial Buzz a "hot" car has for the first year or so. PT cruiser, Beetles, Tbirds, Minis all had that. These cars get talked about more than average in the media. The GTO was never "hot" car.
    6) Exclusivity. You state that the GTOs selling in small numbers and its eventual cancellation in 06 is a bad thing. Why would you rather drive a car that is on every block vs something you see very infrequently.
  • tm2flitm2fli Posts: 2
    Man it's something to see mustang owners hitting every GTO site trying to tell us the mustang is better than the GTO.

    For those wannabe critics on here..how many of you have actually driven a 05 GTO????

    Yeah that's what I thought...bunch of magazine reading, know it all analysts posting from magazine information.

    If you ask a 05 GTO owner how much they like their car, you get an overwhelming response that they love it and is the best car the have ever bought. Me included.
    So typing about how a rebadged holden shouldn't have been a GTO, how it really isn't that fast, not marketed in the right "niche" doesn't mean anything to me..we bought the car, it's a great car and absolutely do not regret it, so quit telling me I made a mistake of getting a GTO instead of a 05 GT.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    The 24 Hours of Bathurst is a great race on a great road course. If they play this event on SpeedTV again make sure to watch it. I watched the 24 Hours of Bathurst race last year and the Holden Monaro/GTO was pretty dominating. It ran circles around M3's and beat the Ford Commodores pretty handily. After watching that race and tuning into some of the V8 Supercar races in Australia, there is little doubt in my mind that when GM gets the GTO race program up and running, the GTO will dominate. I like the new Mustang GT, it is a looker and a great value, and the Shelby GT 500 is awesome. I think I prefer the GTO for the interior quality, the stealthy exterior, and handiling. Yes there are a bunch of mod parts/tuner kits coming out to make Mustangs ridiculously quick, but i think there will be similar opportunities for the GTO, like SLP or Mallet. I also think the parts available to refine the GTO handling will make it very hard to beat on windy roads.

    GOAT POWER :D
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    FYI.....tayl0rd.....The 2004 GTO has a real dual exhaust system too! The 2 real pipes were run out to one side together, but are TRUE dual exhaust! I don't GM had enough time for 2004 to run them out to the sides like on the 2005, but I have seen some 2004 owners have them switched over.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    No, I'm correct in my statement. Read it again, it clearly states "...To me, the Ford has more rear seat room...." Again, key phrase being "to me".

    Then you state the GTO is much more comfortable than the 02 GTP. That's your opinion, personally I didn't find the backseat of the GTO comfortable one bit. And again, don't mean to rant, but having the tank behind the seat bothers me.

    Again, we agree to disagree. ;)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    I don't either (pay MSRP for ANY car). I don't finance cars, I pay cash for them. And I also don't deal with the MSRP prices for the options either. And yes, you've said that many times, not a million, but many :P

    Nor do I buy ANY car the first year it comes out, as you stated there are bugs. Know this is off-topic, but the same thing happened with the PT Cruisers as well. People were paying 300M money for one, which I thought was crazy!!

    But the question still stands to be asked, without all the incentives how many would have bought this car?
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Ok, so now the GTO should hit 180, albeit with the governor removed. Last time it did hit 180, no mention of governor. What happened? :confuse:

  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Hey hammen,

    Yes, the Monaro had the tank behind the rear axle. For the GTO it was moved to behind the back seat to meet safety regulations for rear-end crashes. Yes have seen the structure, didn't notice if there was foam around it, separating the tank from the case. Also don't know if the tank has foam on the inside as well, as with a fuel cell. Would actually prefer a racing fuel cell versus a tank if I'm putting it in the passenger/trunk compartment. Does it have a fuel shut-off in case of a crash (like the button on Fords)?

    Yes, the tank on many vehicles are under the seat; but it's just my feeling better that the tank is "physically" outside the inner/passenger compartment. I'm just glad it's not like on the old p/u trucks, where the tank was in-cab, directly behind the seat!
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    G,

    Um, if you read the whole thing, I also mentioned "...when it was intro'd...did it need hood scoop...did it need a real dual exhaust...". That should have clued you in that I was talking about the '04. Again, stop being selective.

    Keep up, will you :P

    (Just kidding - oh, and when are you going to get your GTO to 180 while carrying your luggage, baby stroller, golf bag, groceries, along three adults and baby seat ;) )
  • Pontiac GTO: Heavy incentives by the end of its' first year on the market! GM begs its loyalists with unheard of additional incentives for GM credit card holders. Even this won't help them meet their sales goals, and many 2004 models sit unloved on dealers' lots well into 2005.

    Ford Mustang: No sign of discounts, not to mention incentives! Quite the contrary, most dealers will not even honor the employee or supplier purchase plans. But this is the killer: orders are backlogged so far that, if you'd like to order a 2005 Mustang of any kind, too bad. You'll have to wait until 2006!

    (By the way, even the old body style 2004 Mustangs were all gone before the Brand New 2004 GTOs!)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Um, the pipes run into a resonator that has a single tip.

    Everyone, my mistake from the original post.

    True, the car does have a dual exhaust but the pipes run into a resonator that has a single tip. But that's not a true dual exhaust because the pipes come back together - it doesn't stay dual from the cat-back. It's separate until the end, not a true dual exhaust to me and to many others for that matter.

    Back to the debate!
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Hmm. You are Pontiac marketing. Let's launch a 350 hp RWD sports car primarily in the Midwest, in the middle of winter, follow it up with virtually NO marketing or ads, and let our dealership body throw $5-$10k of ADM on the price. Said dealership body generally also won't allow test-drives without a signed purchase contract. Keep building cars until October 2004 (I'm sure the 2004 Mustangs were done months before that, and they didn't have to go halfway around the world to get to their dealers), don't offer any incentives until late July, then panic when they're not selling. Also, drop hints all year long to enthusiasts (and confirm in August) that "next year's model" will have more HP and oft-requested hood scoops. And wonder why you can't sell them?

    '05 marketing is no better but they're still selling their planned 1k/month, with minimal incentives, thank you very much.

    Weren't Ford dealers having a problem getting rid of the '03-'04 Cobras? I've seen several Mustang enthusiasts crowing about paying under invoice for them, and dealers having them on their lots well into the next model year...

    --Robert
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    For the umpteenth time here.... the GOVERNED spd of the GTO is 158mph, Mustang is 147mph NO governor!! .The GTO will do 180 with the governor removed, Someone already posted that they saw a picture at 177mph. If you have read some of the other forums there are people in Germany that do cruise at 165+mph on autobahn in their GTO. I would NEVER try this.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    benderofbows wrote.......(By the way, even the old body style 2004 Mustangs were all gone before the Brand New 2004 GTOs!).....

    Incorrect, the 2004 Mustangs were NOT all gone before the new 2004 GTO, not sure where you got that info because in my area near NY City here....there are still NEW 2004 Mustangs on the Ford Dealer parking lot by me with heavy incentives that still haven't moved yet. I have seen advertisements in my local paper with the big markoffs on them. In fact one dealer still has a silver 2005 V8 sitting there for 3 weeks, just saw it again this morning!

    As for the 2005 GTO, my dealer told me that you can NOT order one anymore either! You have to wait for the 2005's enroute to the USA since they are still building the

    Yes, GM is selling their planned 1k 2005 GTO's per month with minimal incentives. Only the $1k rebate which just came out on April 1st.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    jae5 writes..... it doesn't stay dual from the cat-back. It's separate until the end, not a true dual exhaust to me and to many others for that matter......

    here it is FOR THE LAST TIME!!! .... the 2004 GTO has REAL, TRUE DUAL EXHAUST! The pipes do NOT come back together. Check your info before you post.

    Mechanically, the exhaust system on the 2004 GTO consists of two completely independent exhaust paths that run from the manifolds to the outlet pipes, ensuring there is no mixture of exhaust gases.

    Through the efforts of engineers on two continents, a true dual exhaust system was developed and acoustically tuned like a finely crafted woodwind instrument, yet enables the heavy-breathing, low-back pressure needs of the 350-horsepower LS1 V8 powerplant.

    Believe what you want, here are the facts!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Here is the reason why the Mustang is $5k cheaper then the GTO.... Saw this on another site... funny but true...

    the Mustang is less expensive because Ford cut a number of corners building that car.

    "The performance of the GTO clearly blows the Mustang away. The engine, transmission and chassis aren't even close. Think of the GTO as a Cobra -- while the Mustang is just a GT. And with this Cobra -- you can still bolt a puffer on it for astronomical output. You can do the same with the Mustang -- but, seriously, the 4.6 Romeo platform has always been weak.

    The interiors aren't even close, either. The Mustang's is small and cheap. It's gauges are HORRIBLE. The seats are awful, awful, awful. No lateral support. And the Mustang's steering wheel doesn't telescope -- so if you've got long legs -- prepare to assume an arms-out gorilla-like driving position. Sure, the Mustang's got a bigger trunk and fold-down back seat -- but the GTO is the ROOMIER backseat and ROOMIER car.

    That said, the manual shifter in the Stang is light years ahead of the flubbery, rubbery unit in the GTO. Then again, a $225 shift kit fixes that. Automatic tranny GTO is same or faster then manual shift GTO or manual shift Stand, LOL! Funny!

    There are other, subtle differences in the GTO that clearly state that this car is a totally different, much more refined car than the Mustang. For example, the build quality of the GTO is fantastic. The fit and finish of mine is as good as BMW and better than Mercedes. Reflected surfaces down the entire side of the car, across the fender, door and quarter panel don't vary one iota -- even across seams. That is incredible. This car has already been compared by Motor Trend to the AMG $70k benz. Never see a stang compared to that car!! Then there's the design of the door. The GTO has glass in frame windows. These seal better and reduce wind noise. They last forever, too. The Ford? Just a big, dumb rubber seal that's going to whistle with wind noise in about 18 months. Truly an inferior design.Ask some mid 1990's Mustang owners about that... seals wearing out flapping etc.

    Bottom line? Ford has cut all kinds of corners to bring the Mustang in at a lower sticker price. The solid rear axle chassis. The infrerior interior. The cheap door seals. The GTO? It costs more -- and the extra effort shows.

    Consumer Reports on Mustang interior..........But the materials look and feel LOW-GRADE with thin, hard, plastics throughout. Some cubby doors open and close AWKWARDLY, and their hard surfaces lack the soft, rubberized cover found on other vehicles in this class!

    The Mustang LACKS the finesse of the best sports cars in this price range including the Subaru WRX and Mazda RX8.

    There is NO DUMBED down CHEAP version of the GTO like there is with the V6 secretarial $19k stang. Your $28k stang looks just like someones base $19k stang. IT will get worse with the GT500 for $40k, when someone can buy the base V6 for $19k and look the same. No exclusitivity on Stang. Enjoy seeing them a dime a dozen like Accord/Camry/taurus of the world. Retro look will fade soon. Ford's best was to copy their 1967 or 1968 stand and make it new again? They couldn't come up with a new orig. design? LOL! To each their own

    Sales do not make one car better then another, if that was the case a few yrs back the Ford Taurus would be the best/most desirable car because it sold the best. How absurd!

    I do not feel bad for buying a GTO as many stang owners have tried to say. I got the better quality car. better ride and to me that was worth the extra $$ which I could afford.

    As they say, you get what you pay for, and that is why the GTO costs more. Getting drivetrain from a $45k to $55k Vette for under $35k, bargain!

    Those are my final comments on this thread. Goodbye! Enjoy what you brought.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,137
    This is one of the "hottest" threads on Edmunds. People on both sides of the fence have got to be pleased.

    Here we go.....(again)......I've driven the '04 & '05 GTO and own the '05 Mustang GT.
    Anyone who tracks any of these vehicles (with the exception of professional trade rag testers) is going to vary widely in their abilities. Further, different tracks and track conditions will yield different results. Track the same car, on different days, with different weather conditions, different numbers again.

    So, all we can go by is what the professional testers tell us, as it's their job and probably the most reliable source of this information since they are the most experienced.

    Here's what I've seen/read.....

    Best time for an '05 Mustang GT was from R&T. Results? 0-60 in 4.9 secs...1/4 13.5 secs. Best times for an '05 GTO (since that's the one with the LS2) was from C&D. Results? 0-60 in 4.8 secs.....1/4 in 13.3 secs. Top speeds on both are well over what anyone, outside of a professional tester, on a closed track will ever approach. WIll any of us (including me) amatuers get on a track will have too many variables (as stated before) to gleen much information from. Fact is, the differences to me are too small to matter anyway (a tenth in the 0-60 and a couple of tenths in the 1/4)....particularly, on the street. On the street, the numbers are all pretty meaningless. They are so close as to not matter. Both cars are very fast. I'll call it a draw to keep the peace.

    Steering, shifting, clutch all go to the Mustang GT. You can quote C&D. I can quote Edmunds on what they thought. What matters is that I felt the Mustang felt much lighter on it's feet than the GTO. IRS of the GTO vs solid rear of the Mustang is/has been a "non-issue". I've found the job Ford did on the suspension to be wonderful....regardless of the technology used to yield the end result. Shifter in the GTO feels rubbery compared to the positive action of the Mustang's. Clutch in the Mustang is very sweet with a smoothness that the GTO's clutch action couldn't approach. Steering of the Mustang is quick and positive. GTO's felt slow and ponderous by comparison.

    Styling? As many have pointed out, that's in the eye of the beholder. I like the Mustang's styling. Apparently, there will be 180,000 Mustang buyers that feel the same way vs less than 30,000 GTO buyers (Pontiac hopes). Some like the "look" of the GTO. Personally, I think it's one of the GTO's biggest downfall. Take a look at the "sketches" MT displayed (the one with the Shelby on the cover) of what the GTO might have been in it's next iteration (but won't since it won't be built), and Pontiac was on the right path. We'll never know, though since the GTO is falling by the wayside.

    Interior? Again, depends on who's doing the judging. Is the GTO the best Pontiac can do? Yes, without a doubt. Considering where the General is coming from in their interior design, the bar was set low to begin with, however. But, I much preferred what Ford did with the aluminum interior and with the guages/ergonomics. I did like the seats in the GTO. That said, I like the Mustang's seats, too....for different reasons, though. Back seat? Both are tough to get into in either car. Once back there, I can see where the GTO's would be more comfortable. I wasn't concerned with the back seat since I don't plan on putting anyone back there and I certainly didn't plan to ride in 2nd class, in either car. Trunk space was more of an issue with me with the GTO. With or without the Shaker 1000, trunk space in the Mustang far outshines the GTO's trunk.

    Build quality? Good in both. I don't know that anyone can complain about either. I was a bit turned off by the "mouse fur" on the interior of the doors of the GTO and the GTO's HVAC controls felt like they came from a Sunfire. Mustang's controls felt smoother in their operation. Both are built solidly with nary a squeak nor rattle....even over rough road surfaces. Body panels line up with tight gaps both inside and out. Paint was lustrous and even on both with little in the way of "orange peel" effect. Stereo in the Mustang is better with the Shaker 500 (better lows/highs and more powerful) over the GTO's Blaupunkt. Neither is going to win over the "aftermarket" crowd who will want to tweak the stereos to their own liking.

    That brings us to price and resale. Like for like regarding equipment levels, Mustang costs less. In most cases, much less. Drop the side airbags from the Mustang since they aren't available on the GTO and you've got an MSRP of somewhere around $27,500. I'll stick to the '05 GTO pricing since the '04 GTO is a year old, so it wouldn't be a like for like comparison. There's a $1,000 rebate on the GTO if you finance it through GMAC (not sure, but I think that's the qualifier for the rebate). While I can beat GMAC financing rates by a substantial amount, let's run with the GMAC terms to get the rebate. GTOs are being discounted. So, thinking that they will sell for $31-$32K, deduct the GMAC rebate, and it should be selling for around $30K-$31K.

    It's no secret that Mustang GT's are selling for MSRP and above, but for this exercise, let's use the MSRP number of $27.5K. At best, the price advantage goes to the Mustang GT by about $2.5K-$3.5K. If you qualify for any special pricing plans from either GM or Ford (like I do) and the price differential becomes even larger. If I finance through GMAC (which I wouldn't), I can buy an '05 GTO today for `$30.3K less the $1,000 rebate, or $29.3K. That's still about a $2K price advantage for the Mustang GT selling at MSRP. I bought mine on Ford's x plan for $25.5K, so the price advantage over the GTO swells to nearly $4K, in the Mustang's favor.

    Resale? Considering the Mustang GT has just about sold out of '05s, and dealers are now selling their '06 model allotments, still at MSRP, I'd say that Mustangs will hold their value well for the next couple of MYs, at least (if not longer once the Shelby hits as competition to the 'vette and Mach, Bullitt and Boss models hit).

    18,000 '04 GTOs were supposed to be produced. Since they were slow sellers GM only brought 16,000 GTOs over to NA. Even though they've been heavily discounted and dealers are still trying to move them, they are still lingering. GM reduced the number of '05 GTOs they would produce to 12,000 units based on the above. It's not clear whether they'll actually bring over that many since, while sales have been better, they still are selling below what GM wants. Last figures I saw, GM has sold around 3,300 GTOs in '05. 1/3 of those were '04s. That means that GM has sold around 2,300 '05 GTOs through March. Based on that, they certainly don't look like they will sell 12,000 '05 GTOs that they are hoping to sell without more major rebating. In short, resale doesn't look good for the GTO considering that '06 will be the final
  • There is NO DUMBED down CHEAP version of the GTO like there is with the V6 secretarial $19k stang. Your $28k stang looks just like someones base $19k stang. IT will get worse with the GT500 for $40k, when someone can buy the base V6 for $19k and look the same.

    A lot of the information in your post makes it clear that you haven't had any real product experience with the Mustang, but this is the most evident. A base V6 looks just like a GT? How about the unique grill and fog lights? GT badging? (badges mean alot to you GTO guys because they are all that separates a GTO from a 1999 2-door Grand Prix). And the GT500- Have you even looked at pictures of one of these? Obviously not, if you think it looks like the V6 model. C'MON.

    Sales do not make one car better then another, if that was the case a few yrs back the Ford Taurus would be the best/most desirable car because it sold the best. How absurd!

    They do, when you compare competing cars.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    badges mean alot to you GTO guys because they are all that separates a GTO from a 1999 2-door Grand Prix

    Your creditability with ANYONE just went right out the window there, bub. The GTO is RWD, produced by Holden in Australia. The Grand Prix is FWD and made either in the U.S. (pre-2004) or Canada (since 2004). There is a slight visual resemblence in the front - just like the Mustang front end, to me, has a passing resemblance to the Explorer!

    Look, each side has their biases. THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL "BETTER" CAR - it's totally subjective as to which is the better car. You look at the factors and buy and drive what you like. That's what I did!
  • Calm down, we were talking about styling. I should have included that (a reference to styling), I did not know it would be interpreted that way (that people would think I meant a GTO is exactly the same car as a Grand Prix; it didn't have a V8, either).

    But anyways, It's common knowledge and frequently asserted that the GTO looks generic Pontiac.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    It's common knowledge and frequently asserted that the GTO looks generic Pontiac

    Just like the 1964 GTO looked just like a Tempest, except for hood scoops and a big motor.

    Is a family resemblance a bad thing? Look at the Mustang - it has a family resemblence to the Explorer, the Freestyle, the Five Hundred et. al. (not as much the Focus and Crown Vic). Ditto Caddy - you can tell the CTS, STS, SRX, DTS et. al. are Caddies - the CTS and STS are very close - is that a bad thing?

    Is a car being a "sleeper" rather than a "hey, look at me" a bad thing?

    I would NOT have purchased a GTO if it looked like a Firebird/Camaro (or a Mustang, for that matter). I didn't care for the supposed 2008 GTO sketch I saw. Don't want anything to do with that look. Don't want the police to notice me cruising at 80 mph on the freeway - let them pull over the Mustang/Camaro/Firebird/Corvette instead :-)

    Different strokes for different folks. That's why we have choices!
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