Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

bobad · February 2006

Very well stated bokonon!

When going into the showroom, it's best to check our emotions, loyalties, and any beefs with the company at the door. Unless you are rich, buying a car should be done in a cold, calculating, and logical way. In fact, it may be better to make your finl decision at home, not on the lot. When you find the right car, you will still get that emotional high when you drive it home, and it will be sweetened by the knowledge you made a good choice for YOU.

I just bought a 2006 Sonata GLS V6. Eh! It was an impules buy, but I got lucky.

driverdm · February 2006

Bokonon I appreciate the well thoughtout post. I do believe however, that the Fusion is the slowest of the group. Ford had lost some favor in my eyes for the product cancellations and the 3.5 not going into the Fusion. I think I was touching two topics with one post. And also I had taken the Fusion off my list. I will just speak about the latter. They do make money on the Ford GT by the way, or they did until a recent recall. They may still make money on it but I don't remember. Anyhow, back to what I was saying.

The Fusion is a "driver's" car. I own a Mazda6i and it was a logical upgrade for me. According to the C&D comparo, the Fusion was second to last 0 - 60, with the Camry being the only thing behind it. Now the Camry has 269 horses and has not gained substantial weight enough to offset that horsepower increase and the SE is geared for performance. That makes the Fusion the slowest out of the bunch. The Pontiac G6 is also faster. Of the midsive cars I will most will consider, G6, Sonata, Accord, Camry, Fusion, the Fusion is the slowest. You can't have a driver's car being the slowest in the group.

"Or what will likely be durability problems with the Sonata's manumatic (as a car magazine found out, don't get careless and spill a soda on the shift gate, or you'll kill it!)"

I read that too in a magazine. I thought to myself, "Now, come on". If someone is careless enough to spill the soda right into the shifter they have to suffer the consequences, kind of like if they drank and sneezed it into the radio unit. You can't design a car with components, thinking what if someone pills something in it.

- driver

driverdm · February 2006

I don't really have favorite car company's, just favorite cars. Bobad, I am still looking at a Ford Edge. I had my heart set on a Fusion though. Manu-shift is a must for me sicne owning the Mazda. I would take it at 221 with the manu-shift. They have a tranny like that, they just won't use it. A Ford exec at one point sighted that they didn't think there was demand for it so they didn't offer it and instead offered the "D" and "L" that has been criticized by the press. Mazda on the other hand has said that it is necessary for their "sporty" car image and made it standard on even their minivans. What is the difference between a driver's car and sporty car? I really which there was a manu-shift so I could go pick up a Fusion but they didn't give me one. Everybody else however does except Honda which probably will have it on the next Accord.

ctc1 · February 2006

I spilled coffee down there, so far so good, but a real hassle to clean up.

bjbird2 · February 2006

The Fusion was rated 8th for family sedans over $25K in the March 2006 Consumer Reports, the Mazda 6, 15th.
6th place is not bad in a list of 23 vehicles.
The Acura TL and Passat were #1 and #2.

badgerfan · February 2006

Note, if CR had bought a Fusion SEL V-6 (top of the line model) but without all the bell and whistle options (most of which if left off would have had no effect on the CR rating of the vehicle), it would have ranked second on the list of the CR "Lower Priced Family Sedan" list. I forget the range CR assigned to the lower priced models, but I believe it was $15K-$25K or $20-$25K.

CR managed to buy a Fusion with just about every option, which pushed it's price much higher than a "normal" Fusion will sell at.

bjbird2 · February 2006

I don't know what a "normal" Fusion is, but the car CR bought included safety & security package w/curtain air bags, ABS, and traction control, all of which everyone should get, in my opinion.

badgerfan · February 2006

OK, to prove my point, MSRP of a Ford Fusion SEL V-6 with the three options you mentioned comes it at $23,645, still well under the "Magic CR" under $25K category.

To make my point further, a Fusion SE V-6 with the same three options has an MSRP of $22560, and the only thing you lose from a performance standpoint going to this version is smaller 16" steel wheels with lower performance tires, which might slightly lower the CR ratings a bit, but we don't know that as they didn't test that combination.

In any case V-6 Fusions can be had for well under $25K MSRP.

As we all know, MSRP is an arbitrary number but is what CR reports. Fusions are discounted between $2K-3K off MSRP in my area as I just checked one local dealer who had their selling prices for a the Fusions they had in stock tacked on their windows a couple weeks ago

backy · February 2006

Well, CR wasn't unfair to only the Fusion. They could have tested a fully-optioned Sonata LX for under $25k, but instead went with two GLSes (one with a V6). Their choice of cars to test was rather strange.

badgerfan · February 2006

I don't disagree with you on that point. The savvy consumer has to dig a bit deeper to find all the facts, especially if true out the door cost of the car is an important factor in narrowing ones choices, which is where sites like Edmunds comes in very handy, and is where I quickly found MSRP's of different Fusion configurations to prove my point.

d_hyper · February 2006

Why is Fusion an upgrade to Mazda6? In other words,
some of the zoom-zoom was lost during the translation.
Why upgrade at all if not for a bimmer?! All right, there's a refreshened Mazda6s out there if you insist on more power and sporty driving.

alpha01 · February 2006

CR buys off dealer lots. In the case of the Fusion and Sonata, I highly doubt scores would have changed if, for example, the LX Sonata was purchased instead of the GLSV6. In regards to the Fusion, it only has to do with how the ratings were presented in terms of Over/Under $25K. The Altima and Camry V6s can also be had for under $25K, so what?

Face it: no rag is ever going to test every combination of a vehicle line. The Fusion and Sonata were both rated very favorably, in my opinion, so maybe the bitching should stop. Consumers should recognize that scores are based on the tested vehicles, at the tested prices, and those scores may or may not be achievable with different combinations of drivetrain and equipment.

More thoughts on the Sonata GLS V6- where is the outside temperature readout? Is there only one trip meter? Why? Overall, an impressive vehicle, but those are two things I expect of a car at 22K...Or am I just not using the trip computer correctly?

The drivetrain continues to impress me, though the manumatic feature doesnt. Much preferred the feel and workigns of other similar systems, such as that in the Subaru Outback (last week's ride). The vehicle pitches in turns more than I recall from test drives, but the steering has appropriate weight for a family car and the brake pedal feel is reassuring.

I wouldnt be able to buy the car because I simply cannot STAND the swamp green interior lighting and far too liberal expression of the fake wood, but drives damn nice. (Perhaps Hyundai is copying Toyota to too great a degree... for years Toyota used a very slightly less garish though similarly off-putting green IP panel lighting in Camrys and Corollas)
~alpha

bjbird2 · February 2006

You can also get a Passat for under $25K.
If you just look at the bar graphs in CR and ignore the prices, you can see how they all stack up against each other.

alpha01 · February 2006

Fusion and Milan will NOT be getting the 3.5L for MY '07...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060207/AUTO01/602070403/1148-

~alpha

ctalk · February 2006

I wouldnt be able to buy the car because I simply cannot STAND the swamp green interior lighting

My 01 Corolla had that exact same interior lighting. I just find it bland. I'm really attracted to the bright white LED lighting actually, that's why I really love the Accord's interior at night.

The Fusion and Milan will not get the 3.5 engine? :surprise:

The Fusion and Milan are already under powered when compared to the competition. How will they be able to compete when the next generation's, with even MORE powerful engines? The new Camry has 268 hp!

backy · February 2006

So now when someone offers an opinion here, it's "bitching"?

As for lack of an outside temperature readout and a 2nd tripmeter... would that be considered "bitching"?

Somehow I have managed to live without an outside temperature readout on my 3 current cars--I check the temp before I leave the house or turn on the radio, or look at the nearest temperature display on banks etc. And I don't seem to miss the 2nd tripmeter on my one car (another Hyundai with a trip computer) that has only one.

If you don't like the fake wood, you could get a GL model, or a GLS or LX with the grey interior--no fake wood there.

Not buying a car because of the color of the panel lighting? Would that be considered "bitching"?

alpha01 · February 2006

Yea, I was bitching. But I've only bitched about the interior lighting, say, twice. This issue of CR separating the rankings between Over/Under $25K has been beaten to a dead horse, and yes, equipping cars differently could change presentation of the ratings.

Why not contact CR through their website and tell them not to break out the ratings anymore between price classes, and just keep everything lumped together?

~alpha

backy · February 2006

I didn't "[non-permissible content removed]" about CR's price classification scheme. My question was why CR tested two Sonatas of the same trim line, when they could have easily tested one GLS and one LX. And don't tell me it's because LX models are hard to find on dealer lots. Maybe I will send CR a note about that when I get some time, although I am having trouble seeing how to do that through their web site, so I guess it would need to be snail-mail.

Have you contacted Hyundai about the green gauges and fake wood?

alpha01 · February 2006

I think it would be a bit harder for Hyundai to change all the purchase orders for the bulbs used for the instrumentation of the Sonata than for CR to differently sort and format 3 Excel columns, but yes, I will contact Hyundai.

I agree, the 'Contact Us' page for CR is difficult to find, but its there, you must access it through FAQs.

http://custhelp.consumerreports.org/cgi-bin/consumerreports.cfg/php/enduser/ask.- php

~alpha

backy · February 2006

Thanks for the link. I was thinking on the gauges and fake wood trim, if Hyundai gets enough complaints from people saying, "I would buy your car except for the gauge illumination and fake wood trim", they might make changes--not to existing cars, but in the future. They are usually pretty good about responding to customer complaints on design features, I have found.

jimlockey · February 2006

Sorry Ford but I can't see the Fusion being as good as the 500. Both get about the same gas mileage witch is still not enough. There are still some out there that would say put a bigger V6 or even a V8. You know, the 0 to 60 mentality.

Listen up Ford. You have about the best dealers in the nation for people to have their car serviced. This should be an incentive for you to build better cars that get much better fuel mileage. You know like Europe and their great diesels?

alpha01 · February 2006

I completely disagree; the Fusion is a much stronger entry in its market than the Five Hundred, which is pretty much a dud. The Fusion is getting strong reviews from the car mags, Consumer Reports, and is selling well, not just to fleets. (Boy does Hertz love its Five Hundreds!).

~alpha

bobad · February 2006

I completely disagree; the Fusion is a much stronger entry in its market than the Five Hundred

The way I see it, the Fusion market consists of many people that want to buy a Camry & Accord, but want to "buy American". Unless there are more "buy American" customers than I think, the Fusion will never sell in great numbers at the same price as Camry & Accord. Perceived quality and resale is very high in C&A, and all things being equal, far more people will choose C&A. Ford will have to price the Fusion VERY agressively to compete. Even when priced agressively, they bump into their worst nightmare, the Hyundai Sonata. That's just my semi-educated take on it, FWIW.

cxc · February 2006

Fifteen staff members of MotorWeek, public television's automotive magazine, tested and compared more than 150 cars and trucks in categories such as small car, luxury sedan and convertible. The awards were announced Thursday at the Chicago Auto Show.

The Sonata was selected because of its "tremendous value combination of roomy comfort, quality assembly and most of all safety," MotorWeek host John Davis said in a statement.

joe97 · February 2006

Fusion is a great vehicle and entry for Ford, something much needed for the struggling automker. That said, comparable equipped, it lags behind competitors. Of course, you would expect Camcords to be up there as stablemates, followed by new entry from Hyundai (Sonata) and the Altima, and then a whole host of competitors to follow next - at least that's how I would rate it based on my experience.

Don't get me wrong, I've driven the Fusion on many occasions now, and a fine midsize it is. The problem, it has almost nothing to offer the competitors haven't already matched or led in the class. The 3.5 would defn. help the cause, though.

PS: Congrats to the Sonata for winning the best family sedan!!!

ctalk · February 2006

I agree with you that the Fusion has nothing to put it up with the class leaders. It lacks standard safety features, a powerful V6, etc.

To bad it's not getting the 3.5. (someone posted this earlier)

Click here
Any comments on their decision?

I find that they made the wrong decision.

scape2 · February 2006

Maybe the 3.0 in the Fusion will satisfy? How much Horspower is really needed here folks? Remember when the Camry and Accord were 200HP V6's? and they were talked up like they were race cars! Do you really need a 300HP family sedan? Personally I don't. I look for value, comfort, safety, road manners. The Fusion is tenths of a second behind in the 0-60 sprint by the way when comparing it to the Accord.. Can you count tenths of a second?
The 3.0 Duratec is a reliable and tested engine. Used in Europe for about 3-4 years before it made its way to the North American markets..
I say save the 3.5 for the heavier Ford vehicles that need it.

sciman10 · February 2006

I am considering buying either a 2006 Accord EX V6 or a 2006 Camry XLE V6. Today I drove both as well as the 4 cyl models. It seems to me that the Accord V6 and 4 cyl models are much rougher riding than the V6 and 4 cyl Camrys. Am I wrong or is there an explaination why? I presently own a 1994 Accord and just lost a 2000 Camry V6 in an accident. Both of these have a softer (?) ride than the 2006 Hondas. I like the interior look of the 2006 Accord EX V6 more than that of the Camry but would like to learn more about its handling features compared to the Camry.

ouwxguesser · February 2006

Maybe I'm just use to my go-cart Saturn SL2, but I found the 2.3L 4cyl w/ 5speed auto Fusion to have plenty of get-up-and-go during my test drive. It's still near the top of my list... just waiting to test a few more cars (Dodge Caliber comes to mind).

backy · February 2006

I've noticed the same thing about the Accord compared to the Camry (and most other mid-sized cars) - it has a firm ride. I noticed every small bump with the EX I4 I drove. OTOH, the Accord handles more crisply than the '06 Camry. So it's a question of preferring a smooth, cushy ride (Camry) over better handling (Accord). FWIW, I found the Fusion to have a nice blend of ride and handling, so if you haven't driven it yet it might be a good compromise between the Accord and Camry. Or wait a few weeks for the '07 Camry - its handling is supposed to be improved over the '06.

lmacmil · February 2006

Here is what Motor Trend said about the 2005 Accord in their recent comparison test: "on dimpled pavement...busy as it reads every cranny of road..." whereas as the Camry was referred to as a "limousine-like experience." OTOH, overall they rated the Accord 1st and the Camry 4th (although they tested an EX Accord and an LE Camry, not exactly apples to apples.)

All the car mags seem to prefer the Accord due to its handling over the plusher ride of the Camry. The new Camry may change the equation and MT said of the 2007 "Toyota has boosted refinement in interior quality and driving dynamics..."

Also of note is the new 3.5L V6 with 268 hp vs 190 for the old 3.0L and 210 for the 3.3L yet a better EPA mileage rating. I'm almost sorry I'm only 1 year into my 3 yr lease on a 2005 SE-V6.

ctalk · February 2006

These two vehicles were on my list, I ended up taking the Accord. I enjoyed the Camry's soft, quiet ride. I just didn't trust it in corners. The Accord on the other hand, felt firm and secure.

I suggest you look at the Sonata and Fusion before you purchase your car. Like Backy said, the Fusion offers a better balance. The Sonata leans more to the Camry's side, but offers better handling.

blnewto · February 2006

The Sonata leans more to the Camry's side, but offers better handling.
And a lot more standard features and a huge warranty for the same price

joe97 · February 2006

Question: is anyone else put off by Camry's new styling? I was at the auto show and after closely inspected the car from front to back, I am not sure if the new design lanuage is my cup of coffee. The specs are great but I felt Toyota tried too hard to make the Camry more agressive :confuse:

I certainly hope I am incorrect and the sucess will continue to ride on Toyota's new Camry.

bjbird2 · February 2006

Check out the 06' Passat. There are some great deals on the dealers lots right now, and it was rated 2nd out of 26 sedans, below the Acura TL, in CR.

wolverinejoe80 · February 2006

if you want to complain about the fakewood there are long listings cars which uses fakewoods. ford 500 anyone? even the new passat has ugly yellowish wood interior.

remember that sonata is only 22K, and real wood just doesn't make sense. every cars under 30K has fake woods.

anyway, the green lighting does turn me off. but lexus has green interior lights as well.

alpha01 · February 2006

Not any new Lexus... the LCD display for the stereo in some older models is grey/green, but not like the green of the Sonata. Also, Lexus hasnt used green backlighting as part of its electroluminescent displays... EVER... that I can remember.

~alpha

joe97 · February 2006

Like the new Passat, although way too pricey - defn. nowhere near the average price of a midsize. For 40K, I much rather get something else.

thegraduate · February 2006

if you want to complain about the fakewood there are long listings cars which uses fakewoods. ford 500 anyone? even the new passat has ugly yellowish wood interior.

I don't think people are complaining that the wood is fake. I think they are faulting the quality (or lack thereof) of the faux wood trim. Compared to the Honda's or Toyota's, the Hyundai's looks a little dated. It looks similar to the 1994-1997 Accord's faux wood trim in my opinion, not bad, but not up to today's standards.

thegraduate · February 2006

I'd never own a VW after watching a close friend deal with VW dealers, service and service costs, and unreliability. The Passat does start in the low-mid 20s though, if you opt for the 200 hp FSI turbo engine. I hear its a great motor (don't know how long it will last though), but at that price, the Hyundai and Ford out-power it. Who cross-shops Ford/Hyundai with VW? I doubt many, b/c VW is pushing for an upscale brand image (though with their dealer service and iffy quality, I don't see it happening), and Hyundai and Ford push their value message.

The 3.6 280hp Passat motor starts around $30k I think.

backy · February 2006

And at that price, the comparable Hyundai to the Passat is the Azera.

bobad · February 2006

"remember that sonata is only 22K, and real wood just doesn't make sense. every cars under 30K has fake woods"

How about no wood period, please and thank you!?

The LX has fake carbon fiber, and it looks MUCH better than fake wood.

I bet 90% of owners would rather nothing than fake wood. Plain shiny plastic or stippled vinyl (like the dash) would have been fine.

Bob A.

stickguy · February 2006

I also saw it at the auto show this weekend. Not particularly impressed with the styling, and the taillights reall did look like the Sonata!

I also expected more from the interior. better than the current car, but something about it just didn't excite me.

Maybe from all the hype I just expected more.

The interior on the Sonata was underwhelming too. All MHO of course.

blnewto · February 2006

I bet 90% of owners would rather nothing than fake wood. Plain shiny plastic or stippled vinyl (like the dash) would have been fine
Actually I much prefer the fake wood to the carbon grey, IMO it screams "Scion". But to each his own

backy · February 2006

If you mean the LX Sonata, that car has the same faux wood as the GLS, on cars with the beige interior. Cars with the grey interior get the faux carbon trim. Or you can get the GL and get real plastic trim.

oldjoe · February 2006

I agree that the faux auto is called the Sonata.....hahahahaha! This is a Honda forum, let's keep it that way. Let's limit the discussion to "real" cars not some wannbe that runs $7500 less than the Accord, that's the list price difference and the $3,000 additional factory rebate on the Hyundai Sunata.!

badgerfan · February 2006

Since when is this a Honda forum? The title is Midsize Sedans, not Midsize Hondas.

pat · February 2006

This is not a "Honda forum", it is a discussion about all of the cars listed at the top of the page. See the "What is this discussion about" line.

Let's limit the discussion to respectful comparisons and not silly digs.

Thanks.

mtnman1 · February 2006

I've driven both and I just don't see that the honda is that much better. Especially, for the additional dollars. I doubt you've ever driven the 2006 LX. I think you might be suprised. You have to have an open mind and not just a lemming following the crowd into the Honda dealership.

oldjoe · February 2006

I'd like to apologize, I thouight I was in the Honda forum and not the comparison one...please forgive me. This old head gets confused sometimes

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles