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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Now that the Taurus is going bye-bye, Hertz et. al. will need to look elsewhere for their cars. If Ford doesn't want to sell them Fulans, and HonYota doesn't increase their fleet sales, maybe they will turn increasingly to Hyundai. Or maybe Hertz will buy more from GM, but they don't seem to have many GM cars in their fleet.
~alpha
I didn't. Read my post again and you'll see that we are in agreement. A glitch isn't a problem....not fixing it is. And that is what's happening here IMO.
Many of the owners of these 06s feel that a fix is a long ways away. They are starting to feel betrayed by Honda because they are being told only that "a fix is not available for these tranny problems." The 07s will be here before you know it. How many 07s can they really expect to sell if it becomes known that they are in the second year of a problem that has yet to be fixed, with no hint of a fix even on the horizon? I doubt it'll be enough to unseat the Corolla.
Also, a tad bit of caution may be in order, those who post problems here, are really a small sample of total ownership. Finally, to conclude that the Civic's sales will be hurt by the Fit, its a bit speculative. The Fit has just hit ground, so its way too early to tell.
Happy Motoring over Memorial Day.
I think it'll be the other way around. Once the Fit novelty wears off, and people see that the Civic gets better gas mileage, has more room, and is safer, the Civic will continue to be a car people WANT.
The new Accord will be a real looker IMO.
Deliverd my first Prius in Magnetic Grey and it too is an eyeful.
I don't buy cars based on the warranty. I buy based on their long term report card. Honda/Acura's earned my dollars.
What have been your experiences in using the 100k warranty on the Sonata?
I have absolutely no problem with Hyundai's warranty, as I maintain my Hyundai with the "book" being the worst-case maintenace interval reference.
Look at it this way - if a Hyundai has improved its reliability over those in the past, and there's ample evidence that it has, a 10 year/100K powertrain warranty is simply icing on the cake.
I've owned my Hyundai now for nearly 6 months, and there's been no "out-of-the-box" teething or quality issues, something that can't be said with previous new Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans, and Toyotas I've owned.
2007 Camry 4 cyl. LE auto (JBL, Premium Accessory, and Sunroof)
Current market price: $21,805
Expected resale value (Year 5): $9,742
Depreciation (Year 5): $12,063
2006 Sonata LX
Current market price: $19,170
Expected resale value (Year 5): $7,038
Depreciation (Year 5): $12,132
--------------------------------------
So, at least according to Edmunds, at year 5, you've lost the same amount of money to depreciation for both cars.
Of course, the Sonata LX has a lot more "stuff" than the Camry LE, notably a V6 and leather, among others.
A lot of times when publications talk about depreciation and resale, they are basing them off MSRP. So that will invariably result in poor showings for cars like the Sonata, whose street price is a LOT lower than MSRP.
The correct metric to measure resale and depreciation is actual market price, not MSRP.
Also, a Camry LE 4 5A in most regions besides SET is $21,279 including floormats. How the heck is edmunds.com calling the "Cash Price" nearly $600 ABOVE MSRP. The Camry is a 400k unit/yr family car, its been out for almost 3 months, anyone paying MSRP or above is a fool....
I think clarification of the starting point terminology is necessary to understand what those figures mean.
~alpha
Also, their market price for the figure above includes JBL, Premium Accessory, and Sunroof (I edited the above post to say this). I couldn't get it to not include those. Let me know if you find a way to get it to not include those for the 2007 Camry LE auto when calculating resale.
2007 Camry 4 cyl. CE auto
Current market price: $19,347
Expected resale value (Year 5): $8,404
Depreciation (Year 5): $10,943
2006 Sonata LX
Current market price: $19,170
Expected resale value (Year 5): $7,038
Depreciation (Year 5): $12,132
-------------------------
So, in this scenario, the Sonata LX has cost you about $1200 more in depreciation after 5 years. Not a bad price to pay, considering that it has a lot more features than the Camry CE.
Any chart that has the Alero, Malibu and Sonata as the top 3 was most likely drawn up by someone throwing darts at a piece of paper.
Right... I'm sure your one RAV4 example is more reliable.
The Edmunds calculations are based on "averages", so you would EXPECT it to be variable from one case to another.
I can't vouchsafe for the accuracy of Edmunds' projections. But the point is, there is no evidence that it has a favorable bias for the Sonata v. the Camry (or vice versa).
There is a lot of ballyhooing about the Sonata's poor resale. Comparing projected numbers from a respected auto publication is at least more tangible than the following scenario, which you see a lot around here.
Camry fan: "I wouldn't consider a Sonata because its resale will stink."
Sonata fan: "Its resale won't stink."
Camry fan: "Yes it will."
Sonata fan: "No it won't."
and so on...
I'm sure that there are better deals, and worse deals, than Edmunds market price. It's just their calculation of the average. LX for $17,300. That's a great deal.
Keep in mind I am in full agreement that the Accord and Camry are two of the most reliable cars currently in the market (but still worth noting similar glitches are found just like they are with other vehicles). Whether or not you agree with these results posted, your conclusion in regards to the JD Power results, "likely drawn up by someone throwing darts at a piece of paper" is ignorant at best. These results are drawn with more-than-adequate supporting information.
My point is directed to those continue being skeptical at the proven reliable-worthiness of the Sonata; even quality results for the car have been surging at an amazing pace. The Sonata clinching the most reliable vehicle (per CR) and #3 (behind Malibu & Alero) in the entry midsize segment of Vehicle Dependability (per JD Power) in 2005 are not something refutable.
-hyundai wants to be one of the top 5 automakers in the world
-hyundai invests 1 billion dollar(not small potatoes) on a state of the art car facility
-hyundai claims the sonata going through rigirous weather tests, torture tests etc
-Jd power and other credible reliability magz(putting their reputation on the line) states the sonata is #3 in reliability
- articles that the ceo's of the company turned back a whole set of made cars costing thousands to make, since there was a miniscule defect most other automakers wouldn't bother fixing
- Toyota the #2 auto company ceo states , hyundai is the one car company they are scared of
I don't know i feel like i'm on crazy pills, but what else do you non belivers want?? with all of these facts what are the chances, hyundai took a chance and cared little to make a car that was not going to be reliable??
I don't why there is hope that this car will falter, because it is highly unlikely at this point
None of that even matters to the average new car seller or buyer. It matters only to the "industry" for statistical purposes. The astute seller is not impressed with the industry averages. Smart owners take good care of their cars. They asks for and usually get top dollar for their used car of any make. Anyone that trades in his used car gets bottom dollar. If it's OK with them, it's OK with me.
Just a funny story. Not to bash any 07 camry owners, but i've heard and seen alot of camcord to newly changed sonata owners but not the other way around. Times have certainly changed from 5-10 years ago in the mid size , definitely. Alot of legit options out there, my personal choice of course being the sonata
"Say something negative about it, and your post gets deleted"
Because this car has nothing negative about it, cept perhaps long term quality belivableness. Now i never said it beats honda in the engine department, toyota in proven reliability credentials, mazda 6's handling but i can't think of one thing this car is not at least above average in(the things that matter)
CAn't say the same about the current altima, pontiac g6, mailbu, impala and can't deny that honda and toyota really need some stronger brakes(minor but essential complaint).
And i'am buying one already as of sept, just waiting for the 2007's.(i was also thinking about the 07 santa fe )
Just a funny story. Not to bash any 07 camry owners, but i've heard and seen alot of camcord to newly changed sonata owners but not the other way around. Times have certainly changed from 5-10 years ago in the mid size , definitely. Alot of legit options out there, my personal choice of course being the sonata"
Stop fooling around.
Anyway, it's I4, not V4. You can't call it a typo coz I is far from V on the keyboard.
There are additions and modifications to the 07s, a few to note:
17" are now offered at every trim (new trims: GLS, SE, Limited)
Black leather
Ultimate package (platinum badging, platinum stiched floormats, rear lip spolier, chrome side moldings)
Telescopic steering wheel on all trims
There are other neat changes, stay tuned...
~alpha
~alpha
The 3.5SL is probably the finest car I’ve had at any price.
The drive train is perfectly matched with the transmission and the handling and braking dynamics are superb. The ride in the roomy SL is very smooth while being well damped, conveying a sense of confidence and control. Interior furnishings may not initially appear to be as plush as those found in Toyotas or Hondas, but are comfortable, well-assembled and made of soft but durable, high quality materials that won’t scratch easily, unlike those found in the 2007 Camry. The unusual dashboard and instrumentation design and illumination are pleasingly different, adding to the sporty but luxurious overtone that this 3.5SL exudes. Controls are well placed and operate with a feeling of quality and precision. The 3.5SL is loaded with a surprising number of useful amenities and upgrades that raise the status of this car into entry-level luxury territory.
On the road, the 3.5SL is quietly confident. While Edmunds has criticized the Altima for its road noise, I have found it to ride quieter and smoother than the new Avalon, even with the low-spec OEM Continentals as standard attire. Perhaps Nissan have paid attention in the noise attenuation department, because this 3.5SL glides along with the smoothness and comportment of a luxury car. Everything is tightly constructed with no rattles or strange noises, and the body feels as tight as a tank. The proven VQ engine is extremely smooth, sweet and willing and can propel you well into illegal velocities, before you can switch CD tracks in the surprisingly powerful and authentic sounding Bose sound system. The drive-by-wire throttle control system operates harmoniously and without hesitation. Engine and transmission management systems communicate seamlessly as they should – something other manufacturers have yet to master.
The 3.5SL is an absolute blast to drive - I look forward to every trip and make every excuse to take it for a run. It is like a happy puppy that loves to frolic. Whether in traffic or on the open road, the 3.5SL is sweet, tractable, controllable and like a fighter-jet, can instantly break the sound barrier on demand. This car feels as if you are wearing it as opposed to driving it. It responds intuitively - Nissan has paid obvious attention to steering and handling dynamics. All this wrapped up in one of the most attractive and svelte exteriors with four doors on the market today.
Before you plunk down thousands more for a V6 Toyota, you owe it to yourself to take a long test-drive in a 3.5 equipped Altima. You may well discover that this underrated Altima 3.5SL is one of the industries' quiet secrets.
Unlike most products, this car delivers far more than it promises. Grab one now in case Nissan spoils something with the upcoming 2007 model!
BTW, is there anything you don't like about the Altima 3.5SL?
I didn't know we were having a contest. What are the rules? Can I play?
The competitiveness could explain a lot of the spirited discussion that goes on here.
To me, it's not about winning. It's about choosing the right car for yourself according to your likes, dislikes, needs, and budget. No matter which car in this class you choose, there is always a car that has a better feature or 2. It boils down to where you place your priorities. I like them all, but unfortunately I could only afford 1. I didn't "win", but I got a nice ride that suits my needs, and I am perfectly happy with it. I bet I would be happy with that Altima too!
The Accord VTEC engine was very responsive but didn't have the low-end torque of the Altima, but I can't argue that the Accord isn't an excellent choice. Our other vehicle is a Pilot and it is faultless.
The Azera impressed me too, but resale value is still in the tank which is a real pity. This will no doubt change in time.
One thing I didn't find in any car except the Altima - Nissan has somehow built in a soul. This thing is *almost* alive!