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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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    lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Weelllll, hmmmm guess that makes sense like that, too bad they didn't plan ahead.. Oh well..
    Thanks, van
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    jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    It wasn't really a comparo per se. They were simply tested and given points based on various factors.

    The Accord EX V6 got 89 points.
    The Camry XLE V6 got 87 points.
    For reference, CR's highest rated sedan is the Infiniti M35, at 97 points.

    FYI,

    The Camry V6 was tested at 7.1s, 0-60.
    The Accord V6 was tested at 7.3s, 0-60.

    This difference is a bit smaller that what we've been seeing elsewhere (i.e. Edmunds test).
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    supergoopsupergoop Member Posts: 46
    Road&Track Magazine tested the 07 Camry SE V6 6.1s 0-60.

    image
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    jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Right. The mags always get faster numbers than Consumer Reports. The Accord is faster (than the CR time) in magazine testing as well.

    To my knowledge, the car magazines torque brake in their tests, something that the average driver will never do. CR just stomps on the gas and goes.
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    m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Just trying to visualize a couple of soccer moms stopped at the red light. They look a each other, a wave of the hand, a flash of the lights on their cars -- they wanna race! Accord in one lane and a Camry in the other, things are about to heat up! Wheels spinning, then wheels spinning and tire smoke passing up over the hood, as if there is a fire up front, then finally off they go racing down the street with reckless abandon in their chariots. Do we know the winner? Possibly the one with the fastest reaction time, no doubt, as they both have nearly the same race engines. Race likely won buy the lady with the extra Starbucks cup of java in her. Who ever said you need a Roadrunner, GTO or Malibu SS to have fun? Got V6? :P
    -Loren
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    bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Don't forget they'd be on a hand-held cell phone at the same time.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Now if they were in an Altima, they might be screaming "Yes... Yes!!... YES!!!!" as they manipulate the stick shift, ala the ads for the Versa in Australia that star Kim Catrall.

    I suppose doing that while holding a cell phone would be pretty dangerous, though.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Re: Engine immobilizer keys

    I'm not certain of this but I think it's a concession to the Insurance Industry. Without a 'recognized' key the vehicle can't be stolen unless a hook is put underneath it. I believe that certain insurance companies are offering discounts for this system since it is so good in avoiding theft.

    If however you lose/damage/destroy your two master keys then you can be liable for an entire new set and CPU and programming of all of the above. It could amount to as much as $2000.

    DO NOT lose the two master keys!!! But the Insurance companies love them.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,320
    my wife lost a set of the keys to her '96 taurus. a new key plus the programming cost about $125. it was a big chip key.
    it is probably worth it to get a spare key made when you buy a car new.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    It's not a concession to the insurance industry. Insurance companies apply a discount on the cost of "other than collision" coverage for vehicles equipped with anti-theft devices. Vehicles with passive disabling devices typically get more of a discount than those equipped only with alarms.

    My '91 Chrysler had passive disabling. Just use the power lock button to lock the car (remote wasn't available on that car until '92) and the system was engaged. This also happened if the power were cut (cut wires, dead battery, etc.). I had a dead battery two years ago & the garage guy came to my house to get the car started. We had to go through several steps to get the car to start, even though he was supplying plenty of juice to crank the engine.

    The power door lock with passive disabling device cost $125 back in '91. Even adjusted for inflation, I think that's better than $200 to $400 for a key or $2K for a whole system.

    The insurance companies/industry really don't love or hate the security systems. They have a base rate for a make & model and then discount that rate for security systems. There's no +/- on the balance sheet to the insurance companies for the security systems. If a statistical difference is noted in the loss experience between "no security" and "yes security" compared to a company's rate structure, the discount for security systems will change (more discount or less discount depending upon the experience).

    It is the public who should love security systems because they lower their insurance costs. However, at a couple hundred bucks per key, the insurance savings is wiped out for several years by one key.

    My preference is for the immobilizer to be separate from the special key, as in a power lock feature (remote or otherwise).
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Do people really lose their car keys that easily?

    Knock on wood, I've never lost a car key. I've never not known where it is; I keep my car keys with my office and house keys and I have them at all times.

    There is a mechanical key on one of the key fobs, btw. It will open the car, and of course you don't need a key to start it.

    What exactly did Consumer test in the August issue? Did they re-test the Accord? Their numerical ratings are a snapshot in time...if they test a car in 1997 and give it a 91, it doesn't mean that in 2007 that same car with the 91 from 1997 is better than a car that gets in 89 10 years later.

    The new Camry V6 is faster than the Accord V6. The Accord 4 cyl is faster than the Camry V6. And my Hybrid Camry is right in the middle--about where Sonata and American V6's are.
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    jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "What exactly did Consumer test in the August issue? Did they re-test the Accord? Their numerical ratings are a snapshot in time...if they test a car in 1997 and give it a 91, it doesn't mean that in 2007 that same car with the 91 from 1997 is better than a car that gets in 89 10 years later."

    They retested the Accord.

    "The new Camry V6 is faster than the Accord V6. The Accord 4 cyl is faster than the Camry V6. And my Hybrid Camry is right in the middle--about where Sonata and American V6's are."

    The Sonata V6 is equally as fast as the Accord V6.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR only rates current car models. So they wouldn't compare a '97 model to a '07 model--unless that '97 model is being sold as the same design now. Unlikely.

    You didn't really mean to say the Accord I4 is faster than the Camry V6, did you?

    Can the Camry Hybrid go 0-60 in 6.6 seconds? That's how quick the Sonata V6 is, as tested by C/D. Don't know about the American V6s, but I remember reading a test of a G6 with a beefy V6 and it was pretty quick.

    I've never lost a car key either. My wife has, though--the entire keychain including the remote. More than once. They are probably the same place as all the missing socks. ;)
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    jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "It's now been about 6 years since Hyundai introduced their 5 year/60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper and 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Warranty costs are now half of what they were in 2003, and a lot lower than Hyundai's internal projections. In other words, it seems that Hyundai has improved build quality beyond their own expectations."

    Halving warranty costs in three years? They got to be pleased with that. Hopefully the relatively new Sonata will continue this trend.
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Yes, I meant to say the Accord I4 is faster than the Camry I4...

    I'll have to take a look at the current CR...

    Wow, C&D really got a rocket Sonata...I remember seeing an Edmunds 0-60 time in the low 8 seconds. Edmunds always seems to run cars slower to 60, I remember reading something like this, which I turned up in a quick syndicated review..."Hyundai officials say the V6 will turn 0-60 miles per hour times of about 7.5 seconds, ..."

    The 3.9 G6 (and Aura) are as quick as the Accord V6, but the standard 3.5L V6's in those cars and the Malibu are not. My other car is a Malibu Maxx, I have no doubt the Camry Hybrid would beat it in a track race.

    Anyway, point being that the Camry Hybrid performance is equal to a lower-tech V6, and better than a normal 4 cyl. The C&D test times for the Camry Hybrid (7.7 sec) and the Ford Fusion (7.4) are fairly equal--same for the last generation Camry V6 (7.6). And, of course, gas mileage is not even close, and right now, the tax credit eats up the cost of the hybrid. As for the V6's, there is no question that the Camry V6 is faster than its competition.

    Perusing this particular forum, which I have never really done, is opening my eyes to the, shall we say, voracity of feelings that Sonata owners apparently have. I shall have to watch myself or fear the wrath!

    I did look at the Sonata briefly, when I was looking at V6 sedans. It was very impressive for the money. I was more impressed with the Accord V6 at the time so I didn't really pursue it. Then, I discovered that I needed a hybrid for HOV access, so that was that.
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "And also, unlike American cars, Camry and Accord both are extremely reliable. therefore, they have a higher resale value.

    This is the reason they sale a lot in America.
    I own a 2003 Camry. I won't say it is fun to drive but it is trouble free

    Camry trouble free?? better get caught up on the latest..
    Also, the reliability issue was dead about 5 years ago....
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,154
    >"And also, unlike American cars, Camry and Accord both are extremely reliable. therefore, they have a higher resale value.


    I passed on reacting to that the first time I read it, but the reliability concept is gone. All cars are made about as well as others. You may find dealers slipping in better service or doing what should be recalls as repair-it-when-in-the-shop-for-other-thiings so the customer never knows there was a repair.

    A friend just bought a Corolla out of stereotype. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts compared to other cars she could have bought. She never has owned up to how much the dealer packed the price for the privilege of letting her buy a prized Corolla... grin.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I shall have to watch myself or fear the wrath!

    Hopefully you don't have to "fear the wrath" from proponents of any particular car or brand. But it helps to have an open attitude, and not feel "attacked" if someone disagrees with you or posts data that contrasts with something you said, in a civil manner.

    I think the Camry hybrid is a great choice for someone needing a mid-sized sedan with the power of a V6 (some V6s anyway). I prefer the hybrids such as the Prius (technically a mid-sized car also) that optimize fuel economy even at the expense of performance, but I can appreciate the Camry for what it offers.
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    These tests can vary across the board. I guess its who or what you want to believe. All in all these are supposed to be familty sedans, not performance vehicles. And are all within tenths of a second anyway. Can you count to a tenth of a second? As someone posted and gave me a chuckle. I can see two soccer moms lined up at a red light in family sedans waiting for the light to turn green.. How much HP is enough here folks? really? Someone give a number.. 250? 300, 500? 1000??? Time to demand more the industry like AWD, Nav, MP3, stability control, rear camera, back up sensors, collision alarms, ect...as standard equipment!
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    That's true, in the real world, a few tenths of a second is not going to make a heck of a lot of difference.

    The reliabilty issue is a thorny one. I've owned nothing but American cars all my life...my wife and I even have GM cards that we've been accruing on.

    But you know what? For right now anyway, I'm done. Our cars have all been well engineered and trouble free for the first year or two, and then everything starts falling apart. I love our Malibu Maxx for instance, but the interior is not holding up well, pieces of plastic are falling apart, its on its third set or rotors (in 20,000 miles) and they have been resurfaced 4 times. In stop and go traffic, they constantly warp. Its all been warranty repairs, but...

    My '02 Intrigue I just traded had $3400 worth of warranty work done in the last 6 months. My wife's previous car, an Alero was just out of warranty and lost its power steering system. Even at 20k miles, (and 3 years, 3 months), GM wouldn't fix it and it cost us well over $2000 out of pocket.

    Did I have bad luck? Probably. Do some people have good luck? Sure. But the durability for plastic, for instance, doesn't change.

    So, I'm going to try a Toyota now and see the difference. A comparable equipped Impala would have cost me $2k less, but I'm going to make some of that up in fuel economy and tax credits. The 3.5L Impala is no faster than the Camry Hybrid, either.
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    autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    :)C&D rates the 06 passat 3.6 at a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds (and with a few more hp than the old passat W8) vs edmunds with 6.6 seconds (last paragraph on page 1)... This is starting to get suspicious. In fact vw says the passat 3.6 has an Msrp od 29990... O well!
    ________________________________________________________________

    Wow i really can't wait to see a real comparo between a Passat, Camry, Accord(next generation), Sonata, Fusion, 07 Altima, Fusion/Milan (3.5), G6/Aura/Malibu, Sebring/Avenger, and Galant (is anything missing)!! You know like the early edmunds comparison with like 11 cars. The results will be soo random and having everyone going bananas :P !! Hopefully not in a wild cut neck way ;) !
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    bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Halving warranty costs in three years? They got to be pleased with that. Hopefully the relatively new Sonata will continue this trend.

    If they're smart as I think they are, they are trying to halve the warranty costs yet again in the next 3 years.

    Something's working on the 06 Sonata. I'm hearing that resale values are holding up well.
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    bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Wow i really can't wait to see a real comparo between a Passat, Camry, Accord(next generation), Sonata, Fusion, 07 Altima, Fusion/Milan (3.5), G6/Aura/Malibu, Sebring/Avenger, and Galant

    I would much rather see comparo's between cars in the same price range. Break them up into say $3K or $4k increments and see what you get for your money. It makes no sense to compare by size, because one can cost 2x or 3x more than other cars the same size. After all, people shop by price first, then break things down by size, quality, features etc.
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    autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    These are pretty similar in price. Its not like comparing say a corolla to a tahoe. but i see what you're saying. Have the passatima camcord sonazda6 in one and the others in another, NAAh. It makes more since to do it the 1st way as it seems everyone(companies) wants a chunk of the big 3(japaneese) pie somewhat.
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    m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Why is Gillette giving away Dodge Chargers for a contest? Shouldn't they be giving away the Ford Fusion? The resemblance up front is uncanny! The Gillette Fusion razor and the Ford razor front are like two peas in a pod.

    I actually like the look of that car, though I hope small children, looking out the back of their car, as they travel down the road, won't imagine they are being pursued by a giant Gillette razor. Heard the front described as looking like those razor blades, but I did not realize there is actually a Fusion brand of razors.

    It is so long since we have seen much in the way of chrome, it is a welcomed second coming. Please stop there however, and don't bring back the fins. Recall the two bullets on the front of the GM cars? Where those cars a registered weapon, or what ? :D
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    bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I saw a Fusion yesterday while waiting to pull out of a parking lot (got out right behind the Fusion). It's a good looking car, but I don't care for the grill. Maybe it's the vertical blades or the height of the blades. I like the looks of the bullet bumpers (maybe would look out of place today, but still looks good on the old cars).

    I had a '58 Caddy with the optional power windows. The windshield wipers were vacuum powered...nail the gas and the vacuum dropped, stalling the wipers. But those fins! Loved 'em on the Caddy & my '71 Volvo. On the Caddy, the left tail light group was lifted upward to get to the gas cap. But the '59 Caddy was a huge leap.
    Electric powered windshield wipers and an engine size increase to 390 CID and 300-325 HP, and the Ultimate in automotive fins.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    HUNDREDS for KEYS....
    I think I would just avoid the cars

    The immobilize systems are a great idea, that is way past due. Some of these cars are often stolen. If you live in a high crime area, it's something you want your car to have.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Winning the "Consumer Reports best sedan" says a lot about how good the Accord still is, after almost 4 years. And Honda won 5 out of the 10 categories. Still dominating the competition. Being the most fuel efficient car company certainly doesn't hurt. Check it out.

    http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=2893
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    I think the Fusion is a huge step up, but styling wise the rear beltine bothers me...the car has such a high beltline back there that it looks a little disproportionate and the rear window is rather small and at a steep angle.

    I actually like the grill, though.
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    m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Bought a Corolla back in 1998 and got a $1,000 off on a fairly basic CE model. Could only talk them down $500 at Honda, at the time. You can get discounts on Japan makes. Not like the firesale prices of GM however.
    -Loren
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    m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I am thinking that too. Kinda good looking, with a bit of the big butt syndrome.
    -Loren
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    m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Again, I would just avoid the high crime area. ;)

    Basically, what has happened is that the criminal has already one. They have you paying more, being inconvenienced, and everyone paranoid. At which point you have a loss already.

    I can see the value in the contraption. You have a valid point, no doubt. But the cost should be not higher than $30 or so.
    Those keys are just too expensive.

    Why not do as they did in the old west; string-up the horse thieves. That would slow the trend of stolen cars.
    -Loren
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Again, I would just avoid the high crime area.

    I have lived in the same town all my life (43 years). 20 years ago, I could leave my keys inside my car overnight, without fear of it being stolen. I would not think of trying that now. Crime is spreading out more and more. I am certainly not going to move, to avoid getting my car stolen. The immobilizer system is something that is (unfortunately) needed in this day and age.

    Why not do as they did in the old west; string-up the horse thieves. That would slow the trend of stolen cars.

    Great concept, IMO, but I don't think it's going to happen. :)
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    lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion of stringing them up. It would certainly cut down on the problem. oh yeah, I too think that the cost of the keys is ridiculous. If I remember right, the last time I got an extra key, it was in the $75 area, and my other 2 keys had to be programmed with it. To bad we can not use some kind of better system, I do not know what that would be though.

    van
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Absolutely, but that particular article doesn't include the 2007 Camry, as it hadn't been tested at that point.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR's August issue, now out, tested the Accord EX V6 and THREE 2007 Camrys--LE I4, XLE V6, and Hybrid. Also the Lucerne and Azera (which are in CR's Large Car class). Yet the 2006 Accord nosed out the new Passat and new Camry for top point total in the Family Car class. Pretty impressive for a four-year-old design.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    What is even more impressive, is that with the Civic, Accord, and TL, Honda was the best Sedan from under $20k, all the way up to $40k.
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think its a testament to how good the Honda product is, and its a matter of how much better the family car can be designed...my guess is that barring any MAJOR tech changes in the coming years, this Accord and Camry are IT. They are separated by two points in the CR ratings... and the first 10 or so spots in the CR family car ratings are peppered with versions of these two vehicles, with the Passats thrown in...

    According to CR, the Camry and Accord 4s still outpoint the V6s models from the best competition- which right now is the Sonata and Fusion.

    IMO, aside from the obvious quality issues that some Camry V6s are experiencing, IMO, Toyota missed the boat by not having the 2.4L 158 horse 4 ready with Dual VVTi (adding to the exhaust side) for this introduction. I'd be interested to see the power and efficiency benefits this would yield... and the next Corolla is said to be offering this...

    Still, its probably worth noting that this Camry 4 was the quickest CR has ever tested, and it runs nearly a second faster than the Sonata 4 (according to CR).

    My personal preference for acceleration times is the C/D Street start and passing measures, especially if models are part of a comparison test.

    Also, I thought it curious but indicative of the more or less even playing field of fit and finish in this class that CR spoke to misaligned panel fit in both the Accord and Camry. Commendably, the Azera had the best score for fit and finish.

    Finally, I was shocked at the Lucerne's really poor stopping distances, and I beg to differ on CR's critique of the Camry center stack, I find it quite visually appealing, even at night and the SE version of the Camry is DEFINITELY more nimble than the LE/XLE, though definitely NOT a BMW.

    My .02. Personally, I feel CR is doing a very good job with its car testing right now, and I'm glad the reports are more current- it doesnt seem to take them forever to test new models anymore.

    ~alpha
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    One thing CR does that I don't agree with is to recommend some new designs right away, assuming they will have good reliability just because earlier models were reliable. We have seen that even new Honda and Toyota models are not immune to first-year problems. I don't know why CR can't wait awhile to see how the new designs hold up before recommending them. They have no problem doing that for other makes.

    Another interesting thing is that CR shows the Accord EX V6 and Passat V6 both with 89 points. So there must be a "tiebreaker" of some kind to allow CR to give the Accord its top ranking in the Family Sedans class.

    The Camry I4 is tied with the Fusion V6 in CR's point ratings; both have 77 points (as does the Zephyr). The Sonata GLS V6 is a point behind. The Accord I4 is one point ahead of the Camry. One or two points is an insignificant difference IMO. It means these cars are close enough that someone can make the decision based on personal preferences, e.g. the extra power of the V6 vs. the fuel economy of the I4.

    Something else of interest: the average list price of the top six cars in CR's Family Sedan rankings is $30,110. So it is no surprise to me that they outscored cars that cost thousands less. Considering that new Sonata V6s are being picked up for around $16k + T&L, there is a big price to be paid for those extra few points. A question for each mid-sized sedan buyer to answer for himself/herself.
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    tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    Wow, the second test. Camry nearly edged the 4 year old Accord in Edmunds test, and now the Accord edges Camry. Pretty competitive either way. I want to see one of the car mags do a test of the 4 cylinder versions.

    A Fusion SEs are listed in the SF Chronicle @ 15,900 excluding TTL. With Hyundais, there are too many rebates and factor incentives.
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    tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    All fair points. I hate when they commingle V-6 and 4 cylinder vehicles like that. You are right about the the pricing. The Sonata V-6 are in the $16k range. I'm thinking of picking up a GL 4 auto, if I can get one for around $14k plus TTL (I only qualify for the standard rebate). I am aware of the "secret" factory to dealer incentive.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And on the converse, the MSRP on the Camry LE 4 that scored the same as the Fusion and one point ahead of the Sonata V6.. is about 2-3 grand less than the as tested MSRP of those two.

    That is true. But consider that is a very basic Camry, with many fewer features compared to the as-tested Fusion and Sonata. If you want to compare basic cars, the 2007 Sonata SE (V6) starts at about $500 more list price than the Camry LE I4. Out the door price difference? Well, you know the story there.

    As for few consumers being able to pick up a Sonata V6 for around $16k... go take a browse through the Sonata Prices Paid discussion and see what kind of prices people are getting now if they bother to do their research and negotiate. There is over $6000 in markup (over invoice) and rebates (to-consumer and to-dealer) available to all buyers right now on the V6s--none of that is "eligibility only" (that's another $1400 total possible if you qualify).
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "I actually like the look of that car, though I hope small children, looking out the back of their car,"

    I agree, this is one point in my Fusion V6 SEL that I have to be a bit more careful than other sedans. However, this is what I mean about adding rear back-up sensors. This would be a huge safety feature, not cost much, ;) and Ford doesn't have to spend millions for redesign..
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    mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    I had a chance to look at the Consumer Reports today. One strange thing is that the tires on the Hybrid Camry they tested were the same as on the LE 4 cyl. Mine has the same Bridgestone's as the XLE V6.

    Interesting that the Accord EX V6 score went up 3 points from their last test. I'm not sure exactly when that was (perhaps 2005?), but it means that their April New Car Issue, for instance, was a bit out of date.

    I agree with the above adulation for the Accord. I still think it looks great, too. Fr whatever reason, though. I could not get comfortable in it. Believe me, I tried. I spent a long time in there messing with the seat, the steering wheel, everything. My knee angle was too sharp for me. I have long legs and I'm 6'2. The Camry fit me better.

    The Lucerene they tested had the base V6, I'm sure the CXL with teh Northstar would have done better and with discounts would retail for close to the list price for the CX.

    Anyway, CR does point out that the Hybrid Camry is as quick as the last generation V6 and listed Hybrid acceleration as a "high."
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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Don't get me started on CR.. There was a whole thread here at Edmunds about how bias they are.. Just look at the 5 out ot 10 vehicles chosen... Honda... can you say bias?? CR has lost alot of its appeal, along with its pull..
    A Marketing consultant I know had a very good point people need to think about. The Camry/Accord are easy picks for the large scale review/mags to call a "winner". For one it appeals to the masses and makes sales for the magazines easier, along with writing easier. In the end consumers will make the choice. His point.. "Experts" are ususally 1-2 years behind consumers in what choices consumers are really making. Visit other chat rooms, consumers are realizing there are choices out there. The "Experts" are not always right for you..They weren't for me..
    Cheers.. test drive its free... ;)
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Interesting CR picked the low-trim Lucerne. They picked the low-trim Sonata V6 also, even though the top-end LX model would have still been thousands less than other cars they tested like the Accord EX V6 and Camry XLE V6. Note they tested the top-end cars for Honda and Toyota, not the LX and LE V6 models. They did test the top-end Fusion V6 at least.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Don't get me started on CR.. There was a whole thread here at Edmunds about how bias they are.. Just look at the 5 out ot 10 vehicles chosen... Honda... can you say bias?? CR has lost alot of its appeal, along with its pull..

    If you can't trust CR, who can you trust?

    Cheers.. test drive its free...

    CR doesn't just test drive the cars. They TEST them. You can't determine much from a short test drive (especially with the salesman sitting next to you).
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Are you suggesting to NOT test drive cars before you buy one? I think it's vital to find out how a car drives and meets your personal requirements. It's nice to know how they stack up to CR's criteria, but everyone has different priorities. CR, for example, doesn't have to make the monthly payments on my cars. ;)

    A great way to determine if a car is right for YOU is live with it for several days or a week by renting one. You might also be able to tell how it's held up under some hard use, if it has some miles on it. You can do that with most of the cars in this class. Unfortunately, it's very very difficult to do with Accords.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Are you suggesting to NOT test drive cars before you buy one?

    Not at all. But a "test drive" should be only to confirm what you have researched beforehand. Consumer Reports (and other car reviews and comparisons) can give you an idea what to look for, when you test drive the car (pros & cons). For instance, some car reviews say that the 06 Sonata has the A/C vents in the wrong position on the center of the dash. This is something I would check out when test driving the car. To see if this was a problem for me personally. I want to know what some of the high points, and low points are, before I even walk on the lot. When I go to test drive a car, I usually know more about the car than the salesman does. It's sad, but true.
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    w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    That's been a historical problem with CR for many years. From an objective and statistical point of view, the models should be comparably equipped and as close a match in trim levels as possible. It's easy to skew test results if the testing agency doesn't compare "apples" to "apples." Remember the old saying about statistics!

    BTW . . . when was the last time you read a poor review in CR on any Honda product (car, truck, lawn mower, or generator)?
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