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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Here is a gist of what the new Accord will be getting come Sept.
New exterior styling on both Accord sedan and coupe include new front bumper and grille design, rear bumper and trunk lid design with integrated third brake light, LED taillights, re-styled 16" and 17" alloy wheels and new exhaust finishers.
Four new colors are added to the line-up: Royal Blue Pearl, Alabaster Silver Metallic, Cool Blue Metallic (Coupe) and Carbon Bronze Pearl.
Performance enhancements
The 3.0-liter VTEC V6 engine's output increases to 244 horsepower @ 6250 rpm and 211 lbs.-ft of torque at 5000 rpm; new engine features include Drive-By-Wire (DBW) throttle control and high performance intake and exhaust valve timing. (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004.)
The 2.4-liter i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine's output increases to 166 horsepower @ 5800 rpm and 160 lbs.-ft of torque at 4000 rpm; new features include Drive-By-Wire (DBW) throttle control and high performance intake and exhaust valve timing. (Horsepower and torque calculations reflect new SAE J1349 procedures revised August 2004.)
A sport-oriented Accord Sedan EX V6 is available with a 6-speed manual transmission.
All V6 coupes and sedans have revised suspension bushings and damping rates to complement the upgraded 17" wheel and tire packages.
All V6 models receive Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and Brake Assist.
New interior styling
Revised interior styling includes new steering wheel design, new seat fabrics, new shift knob on automatic transmission models, restyled instrument panel and satin chrome vent accents.
Other enhancements
Smart Maintenance System automatically calculates common vehicle service intervals.
Enhanced sound deadening materials reduce Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Additional safety measures include daytime running lamps and front passenger seat belt reminder.
Heated side mirrors are added to EX and V6 models.
Revised trim levels/packages
Value Package (VP) replaces DX sedan trim level; new standard features include air conditioning, keyless entry, power locks and cruise control.
LX Special Edition is added; standard features include 16" alloy wheels, rear disc brakes and Electronic Brake Distribution, in-dash CD changer, steering-wheel-mounted audio controls, body color side sills and carbon fiber-look interior accents.
LX V6 coupe and sedan models add new features, including power moonroof, 17" alloy wheels, VSA and heated side mirrors.
Pictures of course are here as well..
Go to Vtec.net for more pics...
Looks like Honda decided to let the Sonata keep the Buick-like Rear end and go for a more Pontiac Grand Prix looking one.
Cars looks a LOT better IMO.
I would have waited for it, but i couldn't survive another year with my Corolla's horrible tires.
I personally thought with hyundai offering alot more standard features they would at least add some like ABS on all cars or something, but of course honda is honda
The 07 camry whenever it comes, i would assume will offer more equipment, could take the lead in a common family crowed market sales but the 06 sonata still cheaper and vastly equal quality will definitely have their own kind of customers by then
I would have liked to have seen 4 wheel disc brakes on the VP and LX.
And a power driver's seat on the LX and EX would DEFINATELY be nice.
If something should happen to my beloved Altima, I'd go right down to the Honda dealership and get me an LXV6. It looks to be a real value now compared to before.
A V6, cloth, sunroof, VSC, 17s, etc. and still cheaper than the EXV6.
Makes me wish my car had been totalled when I was in my accident last month.
Not that the car isn't a very good car...
Yes provided you're alive to enjoy the new Accord :P
Glade to hear you're fine.
And yes Side curtain airbags are standard on the 05 models.
True. Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai all set monthly records. Honda didn't but very
very strong sales as well indeed.
Canadian Press July auto industry report
(It's US sales not Canadian)
"Toyota's sales were up 12.2 per cent in July and 11.6 per cent for the January-July period. Honda Motor Co.'s sales rose 14.5 per cent last month, boosted by a 30 per cent increase in truck sales. Honda's sales were up 3.5 per cent for the year. Nissan's 19 per cent jump in business last month was led by a 24 per cent increase in truck sales. Nissan's overall sales were up 16 per cent in the first seven months of the year. Hyundai reported a 14.9 per cent increase in July, and the South Korean automaker's sales are up 10.9 per cent for the year."
Asians are kicking butt! :P Nissan's rebound (or whatever you want to call it)
is quite impressive. Honda could use a little more momentum. Toyota seems
invincible right now (at least to me).
is quite impressive. Honda could use a little more momentum. Toyota seems
invincible right now (at least to me)."
Asians are kicking butt :P
Toyota is literally invincible
Honda is a little slow but is still doing very well
Nissan is growing in sales rapidly
The domestics better come up with a good plan fast.
Probably the same highway mpg it gets with the 5th cog right now. 5th gear on a 5sp and 6th gear on a 6sp would be overdrive gears in a car like the Accord. If Honda offered a 6sp, the overall ratio in the overdrive gear would probably be the same, or close, to what the 5sp overdrive is now. I wouldn't be surprised if the Accord 5sp manual had a taller overdrive than the TSX 6sp manual. Anyone know?
Toyota has a new Camry and RAV for 2007.
Nissan has a new Altima, Sentra and two subcompact cars by MY2007. Also rumors of a CRV/RAV4 competitor in 2007 as well.
Honda will have the FIT, Civic and facelifted Accord by at least MY2007.
Hyundai is coming out with the new Santa Fe, Azera and a minivan
VW is coming out with a Cabrio, Minivan, small SUV.
DCX has new "Cloud Cars" for 2007(?)
The Saturn Aura (beautiful BTW) will be here by 2007.
The Ford Fusion/Milan/Zephyr will be here by Sept. of this year. (I don't care for them much though)
A facelifted Mazda6 hits the streets in Sept or Nov of this year.
The Subaru Legacy will get a facelift this year too I believe.
Bascially the days of buying a new car are getting more and more interesting by the day it seems.
Competition is great. My personal favorite car companies right now are Honda and Nissan, but I've got my eyes on Hyundai as of late.
Also, I got a gift certificate in the mail from Hyundai. Something about $25 bucks for test driving the new Sonata, anybody done this yet?
Thanks in advance.
I can't WAIT until the 07 Camry and Altima get here....
And Ctalk, thanks for the kind words. My mother and I were fine in the accident, but the car isn't totaled. It has been out of service for nearly a month and I'll get it back this Friday. I'm personally TIRED of my 1991 Honda Accord EX and will be so glad when I get my 05 Altima back.
Honda Accord: Down 3.2% to 36,129 from 37,315
Nissan Altima: Up 8.4% to 24,865 from 22,933
Hyundai Sonata: Up 1.7% to 9,768 from 9,605
Mazda 6: Up 60.5% to 8,979 from 5,593
Kia Optima: Up 44% to 4,958 from 3,443
All the adjustments confuse me, so I calculated the percentage myself.
Whoa, look at Mazda6 and Kia Optima, too!
Detroit Free Press report of all car companies here.
I got two Target gift certificates for stopping into my Hyundai dealer for a Sonata preview show (didn't have to drive one but did for the fun of it). But I had to go there to get them--they didn't arrive in the mail.
First of all, the apparent build quality (at least from a visual inspection of exteriors and interiors) of the Accords and Camrys that I've driven is, generally speaking, a bit inconsistent. Almost every Camry that I've driven, or inspected, has mis-aligned (albeit minor) rear doors. If one sights down each side from the rear, the door lower beltline trim pieces do not line up. And, at least 1 out of 2 Camrys have upper panel door trim anomalies on the driver's door. Of course, these are only of aesthetic value, and the mechanicals are probably fine, but it does make one question the overall attention to detail and QC at the Kentucky plant.
I've also noted mis-aligned trunks and rear doors on several Accords that I test drove. The intereior, however, tends to have better attention to detail than the Camry.
Here is the suprise -- I've never, ever . . . looked at a Hyundai until they launched the new 2006 Sonata. The exterior build quality appears excellent. Everything lines up properly, and all seams match. I've noted a few very minor glitches in the Sonata interior, but nothing glaring. With such attention to detail, including usiing a hydraulic strut for the hood, plus hood blanket insulation, and a unique strut/hinge system for the trunk lid -- also covered with insulation -- the Sonata appears, on the surface, to be built well. Only time will tell of its mechanical reliability, since both the inline 4 and V6 are new designs, both of which use timing chains, not belts -- which is generally considered an improvement.
Nevertheless, it appears Hyundai is improving with each new model. I'm old enough (58) to remember when Honda, Nissan (then Datsun), and Toyota launched cars in the USA. I owned a 1968 Toyota Corona, and was the first person to drive a Honda 600 in this area! With all due respect, the early Japanese cars were no great gems either, and I think we may now be witnessing Hyundai evolving into a quality auto manufacturer.
I certainly hope Honda, Toyota, et. al. are not resting on their laurels, but an objective comparison does raise some questions.
They have all the mid-size sedans there.
http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html
Heres the site i got it from, under mainstreamers. Did Mazda 6 get that little sales? :confuse:
*They just reviewed the Sonata
I like the article a lot. Thank you very much for the article.
The best review of anything I've read in a while.
I totally agree with what the article says.
My disappointments however come that, i got the feeling he wants a car that is Honda + Camry + Mazda 6. I feel the car facinated him alot, and gave him something extra that most other mid size will not at this time. With this in my opinion i think he was trying to find the pot in the rainbow and forgot that after all this is a family car trying to acomodate to the common family drivers. For example he starts to praise the cars ability to drive smooth straightly and its sophicated suspension set up but then he starts to nitpick about steering feel, personally i didn't think that was very fair. Does he expect this car to run with bmw??
Most family drivers won't have steering feel as their high priority, and hyundai knew this. Thus they concentrated a fair amount on straight driving sophistication(As the editor explained in the article). To me the steering is not Mazda 6 level, but it felt better than the camry, and very close to the accord and at this segment where cost means something there are always going to be a tradeoff(sonata great ride, competent handling, mazda 6 great handling, competent ride)
otherwise from this nitpick, and his problem with their marketing strategy, which i think is excellent, it was the fairest but positive review i've read of the sonata.
I read that some place.
But the Mazda3 on the otherhand and been a big hit here and in Canada.
http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html
Heres the site i got it from, under mainstreamers. Did Mazda 6 get that little sales?
No, I think there is something wrong with their "statistics". Check the entry level vehicles to see what they show for the hugely popular Mazda3. I think the Bear was hibernating when it came to Mazda.
any thoughts on the first drive edmunds did?
"The Right Stuff
Sporty and comfortable, with a pleasantly freshened look, the new Volkswagen Passat has everything it takes to attract a wider group of buyers than in the past. It's now up to VW's dealers to make the ownership experience fully enjoyable"
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106641
Mazda 6 isn't going well anyways, its sales are pretty close to Kia Optima's i believe.
is questionable and a little disturbing considering it could be giving a false impression of the market place.
Toyota Camry: 43,004
Honda Accord: 36,129
Nissan Altima: 24,865
Hyundai Sonata: 9,768
Mazda 6: 8,979
Kia Optima: 4,958
They dont seem popular in the U.S, but the number of sales are still increasing.
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119289_20050802.htm
Because in the United States, Mazda hasn't done so hot in the last couple years.
The Mazda3 is like the second best selling car in Canada, right?
In the U.S. it isn't even in the Top 15. I have never understood this though. Mazda's cars just don't seem to be doing all that great in the United States. The 3 is doing pretty good, but the Mazda6 hasn't done very well at all.
Mazda themselves have stated that the Mazda6 was a mistake in this country. I have always felt that the Mazda3 was a better car (build quality wise) than the Mazda6 is.
I don't have July's sales data, but here is what Mazda themselves released for the June sales data.
Mazda3 has sold 51,774 units for MY2005 up until this past June.
Mazda6 has sold 37,771 units for MY2005 up until this past June.
Sales for the same time frame for 2004 where 41,972 (3) and 34,444 (6)
July data hasn't been posted yet on Mazda's website.
Not very high numbers compared to Honda, Toyota, Nissan.
correctly Mazda's cars had a great July (up 26%) and good year (up 5%). Compare that to the poor performance of the Honda car lineup.
You're correct that the overall numbers are dwarfed by the big three Japanese brands (Toyota, Honda, and Nissan) and other players, like Hyundai. Kia sells more cars in the US than Mazda, amazing!
July 2005 for Mazda
Car: 19,081 vs. 15,728, up 26 percent
Truck: 5,739 vs. 7,759, down 23 percent
TOTAL: 24,820 vs. 23,487, up 10 percent
2005 Year-to-date
Car: 120,447 vs. 116,398, up 5 percent
Truck: 39,361 vs. 47,625, down 16 percent
TOTAL: 159,808 vs. 164,023, down 1 percent
This is the earliest one i could find.
1. Honda Civic Sedan/Coupe
2. Mazda3
3. Toyota Corolla
4. Toyota Echo
5. Pontiac Sunfire
6. Ford Focus
7. Chevrolet Cavalier
8. Honda Accord
9. Chevrolet Malibu
10. Nissan Altima
Interior 2
Interior 3
*People often charge that "Consumer Reports" under reports the performance capabilities of the cars they test because their testers aren't as attuned to performance driving skills as well as their counterparts at the auto enthusiast magazines - and that's certainly possible. But, I believe CR purchases their test vehicles at retail rather than have them provided by the manufacturers just to avoid the possibility the manufacturers have tweaked the loaners a wee bit. It also avoids any possibility that some manufacturer rep might offer a CR tester a little "encouragement" under the table for a favorable review.
http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=15380&page=9
They covered it up pretty well...
however, the Mazda3 outsold the Honda Civic/SI for the month of July
(this is not the first month this has happened).
See http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050803-1.htm
"Honda still leads year-to-date light passenger car sales, with 29,367 Civic sedan and coupes sold; it's followed by the Mazda3, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Echo, Pontiac Sunfire, Ford Focus, Honda Accord, Toyota Matrix, Toyota Camry, and Chrysler Sebring sedan."
This forum is not about Civic or Mazda 3... so lets get back on topic.
I could get so much better (more value) cars with that kind of money.
It's not like VW carries so much of a "luxury" status, either.
I find it funny that Edmunds calls the Passat a great value.
I have no clue why Volkswagon makes its cars so high-end, they have Audi already..
A Fully loaded Azera or Avalon would be cheaper then the top of the line Volkswagon Passat.
If i had to buy the passat or A4 , with the price savings and almost equal craftmanship , its a no brainer a full loaded passat would be bought over a bare A4.
puzzling company
The W12 is only available in the Phaeton and the Audi A8.
I seriously dont understand why is VW making its car line so luxurious and pricey... they have audi already.
VW is pretty much the only major player in the market who lost sales in July.
I really don't understand why a company like VW (with amazing abilities to
design and manufacture cars) struggles so much. Bad strategy, I guess.
quiteness especially on rough road surfaces. Personally, I didn't feel any problem
when I test-drove it. Could it be some kind of manufacture irregularities?
Anyways, this IMO is not the most thorough review I've read, but I'm sure a lot of
people will read it and decide for themselves.
The reviewer is lukeworm about the car, at best, to sum it up.
"Overall score: The next time I see someone driving a brand-new Honda Accord, I'm not going to think, "Man, what a dope. He should have bought the Hyundai Sonata.""
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/carreviews/hyundai_sonata/
A lot has to do with the road surface. If he was driving over the terrible streets of NYC, for example, that could have caused the noise. What would be more valuable is not just to comment on the noise but to compare it to that in other cars, e.g. how does it compare to the Accord and Camry? That's why I like comparos, where the reviewers drive the cars over the same roads.
He still said it was worth a look.
I few days ago i was looking at the cosumers reports magazine and they did a first drive (or first look) of a Sonata, and said "it was only OK"
About VW : The problem is VW wants to change its brand into a luxury brand, and FORGOT that they had Audi already. And first of all, VW doesn't have the 'brand prestige' Audi has. Audi is already known as a pretty high-end luxury brand.
Definitely Bad strategy...