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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Civic SI looks great, as do the other Civics. I agree about the Accord. What did they do to the styling? It used to look good (about 10 years ago).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ACV may be $13,000, but typical trade-in value normally quoted by a dealer, and certainly the private sale value, are higher. When I sold cars, the only time you quoted ACV was on a vehicle with over 100K.

    Since nearly all new vehicles are sold at or near invoice ( ACV ) the true worth of a trade is the ACV it will bring at auction. It's what you can turn it into cash for within a week. Yes anyone can sell it privately and gain $3-4000 - and they should - if they have the time and want to expend the effort.

    My sister and her husband are moving and wanted a 4WD SUV for the new area they'll be in. They don't have the time right now to sell it on their own. I suggested CarMax. But Mannhaim, the Black Book and Edmunds all had the trade-in values in the $13-$14,500 range, depending on condition.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Aura weighs 3600 lb, about 600 lb more than Accord/ Altima. More weight means lower HP to weight ratio, a slower and dull vehicle that's more thirsty at pumps.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    have you seen the passat? It weighs almost 4k pounds and has 280 horses and its really fast! Mpg is decent also!

    -cj :)
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Yes, seen them on the road and at dealerships. But Passat is expensive :(
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    Accord EX V6 - 3435 lbs.
    Camry XLE V6 - 3516 lbs.
    Aura XR - 3660 lbs.

    Not quite a 600 lb. difference. Where do you get your information?
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I want to buy an I4 midsize sedan. I'm not looking for fancy gadgets, just the best value.

    2007 Sonata GLS has a larger interior (105 cu ft), better crash scores, longer warranty, standard ABS, standard traction, standard stability, 3 rear headrests, interior air filtration, heated outside mirrors, and rear heat ventilation ducts.

    The 2007 Fusion SE has 100 cu ft interior, standard 16 inch alloy wheels, in dash 6 CD changer, 2 rear headrests, and optional ABS.

    Equipped with the automatic transmission and ABS, the Fusion SE MSRP is $20,300 and invoice $18,748.

    With no options the 2007 Sonata GLS has a MSRP of $18,895 and invoice of $17,707.

    Even the 2007 Fusion S trim with optional automatic transmission and ABS is more expensive with an MSRP of $19,440 and invoice $18,147.

    The only plus the Fusion has over the Sonata is style. The S and SE MSRP and invoice should definitely be less than the Sonata's to be a good buy.

    A 2007 Honda Accord Value Edition has an MSRP of $20,020 and invoice of $18,111. Don't like that there's drum instead of disc rear brakes, has 103 cu ft interior, only 2 speakers, standard ABS, manual outside mirrors, rear heat ventilation ducts, and 15 inch steel wheels but it's an Accord.

    2007 Camry CE with optional stability control has MSRP $20,550 and invoice of $18,777. It has interior of 101 cu ft, ABS standard, 16 inch steel wheels, 3 rear headrests, and 6 speakers.

    Both 2007 Accord and Camry have better crash scores than the Fusion.

    How will the Fusion compete with a 2007 Accord Value edition and Camry CE with similar prices?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Accord LX = 3197#
    Aura XE = 3529#
    Passat VE = 3344#

    weights are with ATX and from edmunds
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "However I was a little disappointed with a faulty rear seat fold down mechanism in my spanking new Honda when our then-new Malibu had zero defect for 3 years. I'm still loving it though."

    Faulty rear seat mechanism in your new Honda.. Why is this ok? :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You need to decide some things. For example, how important is electronic stability control to you? Some of the cars you are looking at don't have it available even as an option. Also, you need to decide if you can live with the looks of all of these cars. You noted you prefer the style of the Fusion over the Sonata. Is that a big deal to you? Also, would you like living with a car that doesn't have amenities like power mirrors, more than 2 speakers, and traction control?

    After you figure these things out, you need to go take all the cars that are still on your list on a long test drive. After that, you could rent the car(s) that are still on your list for a weekend (all except the Accord anyway).

    If you are really set on the Accord, you can try to find a '06 LX close-out special--may be hard to find, but it's a nicer car than the VE and won't be any different (except price) than a '07 LX. Same thing for the Sonata--the '06 really isn't much different than the '07 and you could save some bucks (bigger rebate and discounts) on a '06--you might even be able to find a '06 GLS V6 for less than a '07 I4, if a V6 appeals to you.
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    Can't find a '06 I4 Sonata in my area (NYC).

    I'm really not interested in buying an Accord VE over a Sonata GLS. I think the Camry CE would cost a lot more money than a Sonata GLS.

    I added them to my earlier post to show you could get a 2007 Accord VE or Camry CE for almost the same price as the Fusion SE.

    ABS (as airbags) should be standard in midsize family cars. Compact sedans I could see ABS being an option.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Faulty rear seat mechanism in your new Honda.. Why is this ok?"

    Who said it was? The dealership fixes it and life goes on. No reason to stop enjoying your new car on this is there? Do you have an inferiority complex with Hondas?
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    Didn't say a thing about you having to like the looks. Just criticized your ability to decide what looks good. BTW if you want rambling I can put my 2 year old grandson on here to peck... ;)
  • cajuncyclercajuncycler Member Posts: 172
    I feel the same way about the Toyota Camry. Just a few years ago they had one with what many considered bland styling yet the lines worked well and the car still looks good today. I have several in my neighborhood. But now I think the styling just looks terrible. Maybe the stylists are getting bored. I love Toyota's, I owned one and drove it to well into the 150,000 mile range. Great cars. They are just priced now so if you are on a budget you can't afford them. :)
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Actually, I've found more problems with my car. Just noticed that the passenger airbag off light doesn't come on when no one in the seat! It also has intermittent small rattles from the dash and underneath the car (?). I still enjoy driving it immensely, but can't say I'm overwhelmed by its quality. My 1st tank gave 32 mpg though. So mechanically it should be in great shape.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I was in the same boat several weeks ago. "The only plus the Fusion has over the Sonata is style." You hit the nail on the head right there. I loved the Fusion's styling but was disappointed it didn't have the side airbags and ABS standard (06). I checked out the Sonata but was disappointed with its bland style. In the end, we bought an Accord Value Package (06) for $16,300 and got eveything we wanted. At this price the Honda is by far a much better value than the Hyundai and Ford, especially the Fusion.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    But Passat is expensive

    Normally I'd agree with you, but this weekend one of my local VW dealers is offering new '06 Passat 2.0T automatics for only $20.8k. I think that is a pretty good price, considering the equipment on the car. Compare for example to a '07 Camry XLE I4 with comparable equipment. The Passat has a stronger engine also.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    I'm looking to get a new car by this fall, or the beginning of next year. I really want something that looks nice and sporty, something new that a lot of people don't have yet. I was considering the 2007 Nissan Altima and the 2007 Honda Accord. Is there a big difference between the two? Or is there any other new mid-size sedan I don't know about? Thanks and God Bless.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ... something new that a lot of people don't have yet.

    The biggest difference is that late this year or early next year, few people will be driving around in 2007 Altimas, but there will be about 1.7 million people driving around in the current-generation Accords.

    The Saturn Aura and Chrysler Sebring are also brand-new for 2007. You'll have to decide if you think they are "sporty" looking or not. If you think the looks of the 2007 Elantra are sporty and aren't looking for a powerful engine, you could check that out also as it is all-new for 2007. Same for the 2007 Sentra, it will have mid-sized room and a Maxima-esque look.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "I was considering the 2007 Nissan Altima and the 2007 Honda Accord. Is there a big difference between the two?"

    The 2007 Altima is all new and the 2007 Accord is the same as the 2006 model. Between those two the new Altima would probably fit your criteria the best.

    Other cars new for 2007 are the Saturn Aura and Chrysler Sebring. Though not new for 2007 but still fairly exclusive is the VW Passat and to some extent the Ford Fusion.

    You have a lot of good cars to pick from.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    Hey thanks for the fast replys. Hey the chrysler sebring 2007 doesn't look bad for that price. The sentra is nice too, I'm going to order brochures for all of them and compare. Is chrysler pretty reliable? Thanks again for the quick replies, God Bless.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Is chrysler pretty reliable?

    Compared to what? Compared to brands like Toyota and Honda? No. Consider also the Sebring is a brand-new model, and new models tend to have more problems than mature models--even with the more reliable brands.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Brochures are nice but you may want to check out Consumer Guide for your comparisons. Here's the link.

    Consumer Guide

    There are other publications and online sites of course but CG is my favorite.
  • lonewaldenlonewalden Member Posts: 26
    I came to just the opposite conclusion after comparing the Sonata vs the Accord. Although that is a good deal for the Accord VP (manual or automatic?), you can get a 2006 Sonata GLS V6 for about the same price. For that same money you get a V6, bigger car, and 6 speakers vs 2 to name a few, just more bang for the buck. I only drive about 10k miles a year so the gas mileage difference would be minimal, but the Sonatas V6 would be much more entertaining to drive year after year.

    As far as looks, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find either the Accord or the Sonata to be good looking cars. I think I prefer the Sonata exterior, but Accords interior.

    I too was disapointed to find that the 06 fusion did'nt have side airbags and ABS standard (although the bags are standard on 07s).
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Sebring :confuse: I thought Sebring was for rental companies only :shades: I don't know anyone who owns a Sebring.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Ok... 330 lbs difference and not 600 lbs as I thought. Still, 330 lbs is a huge difference. Again, GM is back to heavy cars with pushrods. I want aluminium DOHCs with lightweight design. Altima/ Accord are probably best choices.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually, I've found more problems with my car. Just noticed that the passenger airbag off light doesn't come on when no one in the seat!

    It SHOULDN'T come on unless there is something (a passenger or cargo) in the seat that weighs under 90 lbs. It is off all the time in all Accords with nothing in the front seat.

    Check your owners manual before assuming your car has a problem.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Yup, you're right. I spoke too soon.
  • tncarmantncarman Member Posts: 82
    "Sebring? I thought Sebring was for rental companies only I don't know anyone who owns a Sebring."

    *Raises hand* Well ya do now. No problems yet. More reliable to me than my Toyota. Id say go look at the Sebring, its a good car, and with those heated and chilled cupholders theyre getting..... Nice.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    No biggie... new car ownership can be confusing/frustrating, especially when changing brands (I read you came from a Malibu). Enjoy the new ride (and great mileage!)
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    The Sonata is a great car. I actually like its driving dynamics a little bit better (V6) compared to my 4-cy manual Accord mainly because of the added power. But the Accord's engine is so powerful the difference is not huge. I would've been happy with a Sonata too. But I think a V6 Sonata definitely will cost more than $16K.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Have you seen the photos of the new Sebring :surprise: ???
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I am not a GM fan and would tend to agree regarding their outdated engine designs. In addition, they have only a 4 speed transmission in the base trim level of that car. I was just pointing out that there is not one weight figure for any car. Someone else had posted the weights of higher trim levels.

    Part of the weight difference for the figures I listed is because the Aura has V6 in the base model, while the others have 4 cyl. I do not know what other differences there may be in equipment, size of the vehicles, etc.
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    Oh okay thanks backy, yeah I hope the sebring doesn't have problems. But I'm going to look at the sentra 07 too, thanks for the consumer guide also venus. God Bless
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am not a GM fan and would tend to agree regarding their outdated engine designs.

    They are getting better. The new V6 is much improved over the old OHV designs, and there's the new Ecotech 2.0 turbo with 260 hp--compare to the 200 hp in VW's 2.0T.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Since I know nothing about their engines, I should have said "I would tend to agree with the criticism, if they are using an outdated engine design" :)
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    If higher power of V6 is offset by higher weight, what do I get in return for spending more on gas?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Who said it was? The dealership fixes it and life goes on. No reason to stop enjoying your new car on this is there? Do you have an inferiority complex with Hondas?"

    LOL! inferiority complex? did I say this in some way? I just find it a laugh that when Honda's have a problem its ok, "just move on" If this were a Ford/GM product I'm am certain your view may have been differnent, ya think?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Trying to convince the public and buyers that have been around the block that a Honda is less expensive than a Fusion or Sonata is a laugh.

    It is common place, and knowledge that Honda products are spendy..
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Initial price is higher. Retained and resale value is higher.
    Cost of ownership is very often LOWER with Honda than other makes.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    I agree. 2006 Base model (4 cyl Auto) comparison of 5 year True Cost to Own at my zip code:

    Accord $37212, Sonata $42864, Malibu $39188. Further, Malibu seems as economical as to Accord after adding savings from 0% APR, but Malibu's base model doesn't have safety features like ABS or side curtain airbags - features that are standard on Accord.

    To sum up, Accord isn't any more expensive than other cars in its class.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I agree. 2006 Base model (4 cyl Auto) comparison of 5 year True Cost to Own at my zip code:

    Accord $37212, Sonata $42864, Malibu $39188. Further, Malibu seems as economical as to Accord after adding savings from 0% APR, but Malibu's base model doesn't have safety features like ABS or side curtain airbags - features that are standard on Accord.

    To sum up, Accord isn't any more expensive than other cars in its class.

    Looks to me like it is cheaper than the others if you own 5 years!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Interesting how the TCOs vary across locales. I ran the TCO for the 2006 Accord LX I4 AT and the Sonata GL AT, and came up with the following after deducting current rebates (not included in the TCO calculations):

    Accord: $35,009
    Sonata: $34,940

    So about the same, but Sonata has ESC that is not available on the Accord LX I4. The TCOs of a few other cars were:

    Malibu LS: $34,923
    Camry LE: $37,266
    Mazda6i: $35,548

    So with the exception of the Camry, which is quite a bit more than the others, the decision can be made based on which car you like best vs. 5-year cost--assuming you keep the car five years and drive it 75k miles in that time!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If you are worried about costs, you shouldn't trade the car after only 5 years. :P
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    When did I say that I was going to trade in after 5 years? I was just trying to say that True Cost to Own indicates that owning an Accord isn't more expensive than owning other cars. That's all.

    FYI, you can use Edmunds to generate True Cost to Own for under different assumptions - 5 years is the default and that's why I mentioned the 5 year ownership cost.

    Finally, if I want to waste my money by buying a new car every 5 years, what's wrong with that? And, buying Accord every 5 years isn't any worse than buying something else every 5 years.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Still, Sonata or Malibu aren't any cheaper - you'd think that they'd cost you less than class leaders like Accord. Why take weaker I4 in Malibu when you can get Accord for the same price? Malibu's styling isn't any better than Accord's.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If you are worried about costs, you shouldn't trade the car after only 5 years.

    Which is why i still have an eleven year old Accord in the driveway! ;)
  • heavensoldierheavensoldier Member Posts: 61
    The 2007 nissan maxima is nice to, I just looked at it, is this a new design too? God Bless
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    I tried the same with my 99 Blazer. It just refused to live longer than 7 and 1/2 years (71300 miles). (I'm not saying all GM cars are bad or anything like that. But you can end up with a bad one and then you have very little option but to get rid of it.) I now have a new 06 Honda CR-V besides a very enjoyable 02 Mazda Protege (4 and 1/2 years, 38000 miles).

    I bought all these new and serviced at dealerships regularly. If a car breaks down (=requires towing) 4 times or more a year, I get rid of it. The Blazer needed to be towed 9 times in last 2 years before I got rid of it. The Protege has not needed towing till date - it needed other repairs.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With such low miles, you shouldn't have a car in need of towing for years to come. My 96 Accord has never stranded me or needed towing after 165,800 miles. Your Mazda and Honda should go 100k miles (as should any modern car) without a breakdown that leaves you stranded.
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