Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

elroy5 · September 2006

That's why Chrysler puts Hemis in these cars. Their V6 engines don't have enough power for those heavy cars. With a car that big and heavy, you need a V8, if you want some performance. Then be willing to pay for it at the pump.

ontop · September 2006

the Goliath of sports sedans

I think you need to do a little more research into what's being considered as 'Goliath' in the sports sedan market.

explorerx4 · September 2006

see what happens when the weather turns cold, if it does, where you live.

mfletou1 · September 2006

My last car got 20 mpg. This one gets 35. So what's going to happen? Its going to drop down to 32?

venus537 · September 2006

The 300 is a very muscular car but I don't think it's much of a sports sedan. I don't think saying the 300 is the "Goliath of sports sedans" is necessarily saying it's a very good sports sedan though. I can read that to mean it's one brute of a car.

bhmr59 · September 2006

I didn't go back to read your earlier post, but depending on how cold it gets where you live your milage could drop 10 to 20%.

Most of my driving is under 5 miles. When the temp is constantly under 50* my previous cars have lost about 10% in mpg. If the temp is constantly in the 20's they have lost about another 10%.

scape2 · September 2006

C'mon, this car is beautiful no doubt. If you could afford the Hemi, sport package top of the line in this car wouldn't you? I sure would!? The styling on this car is very one of a kind.

scape2 · September 2006

Let me guess, only Ford/GM cars loose mileage when its cold right?

kdhspyder · September 2006

Sounds about right. 20-30% loss in FE in cold weather short trips.

jmll · September 2006

Have to agree w/ cajun. Test drove '06 and '07 Camry LEs and '06 Accord LX b4 I purchased an '06 Sonata GLS V6. Out the door cash price $19,300, including sunroof option. For same price would have had to give up 75hp for a 4cyl Toyota or Honda, without options like 4 wheel disc brakes, aluminum alloy wheels, side curtain airbags, ESC, and 100K warranty which were all std on the Hyundai. 10K miles later, I couldn't be happier with my Sonata.

explorerx4 · September 2006

i don't know what's going to happen with your car. my sister's prius took a pretty big hit. it was still very good mileage, though.
just read all the other related posts. just don't want anyone to be too disappointed if the mileage drops more than expected. no flame intended.

bhmr59 · September 2006

My prior two cars were Chryslers and they took the milage hit too

This past winter was a little warmer in regard to extreme cold in southern CT. My '05 Sonata didnot suffer quite as large of an mpg loss as the last Chrysler--probably because the temp often got near or just above freezing many days.

maxamillion1 · September 2006

Here are some pics from Cheersandgears.com of the new Altima

First real-world ones yet, I wish full side view pics could have been taken. Looks to me like the dash design is cleaner and has much better materials than 05-06 models and VASTLY better materials than 02-04 models. From the pics, it looks like the new Altima can compete with the Camry, but not quite the Accord IMO. Design looks more cohesive than Sonata Fusion or Aura IMO.

maxamillion1 · September 2006

You can build the 07 Sebring on Cars.com

I priced one out (Limited 3.5L fully loaded) for $28,915! And that's WITHOUT Navigation system. The Aura is a much better value and looks a lot better to boot.

jimmy81 · September 2006

Everything looks way better than a Sonata or a Fusion. Especially the interior. Ford's usually weak with interiors and Hyundais seem cheap.

bhmr59 · September 2006

Everyone knows you've been trashing Sonata's, now you're trashing Ford also.

What cars do you like and why?

baggs32 · September 2006

Is that the CD/DVD changer right below the climate controls and in front of the gear selector? That is just plain awful this day and age if it is. I thought that junk went away years ago. Our '96 Civic had a single CD unit in the same exact spot and it was so very annoying. If it's a 6-CD unit it won't be quite as annoying but annoying nonetheless IMO.

Changing CDs in a unit with the slot built into the head is a one-handed operation. With a design like this it can be a one-handed deal too but you have to move your hand up and down the stack too much which increases the odds of dropping the CD. Imagine doing that while driving! :surprise:

The rest of the car looks just OK to me. The interior materials are certainly nicer but they still have a sort of flat dull look to them. And that plood around the aforementioned CD/DVD changer looks out of place and tacky. All IMO of course.

I'm picking at nits of course which is the norm for this thread I guess. :P My Mustang's interior isn't exactly awash in high quality materials either. But that isn't really the highlight of the car now is it? Same goes for the Altima I would guess.

jimmy81 · September 2006

Everyone knows ?

You mean people really take these comments to heart? Any of these forums are a chance for little guys like us to express our views, and everybody's biased.

I've owned Fords, and I can't think of any one thing they do very well (except V8 speed in my Mustang GT). Their packages are just OK. Who wants just OK when there are so many other choices out there?

Never owned a Hyundai, but I test drove a Sonata EX 3 times, and rented a GLS once. Sure I'm not behind the wheel of one every day, but I do notice the same kind of 'averageness' in their total package. Nothing special.

I want some special in my cars. Hondas are special. Excellent interiors. Excellent mechanical engineering. Aircraft grade feel to the controls and components. Excellent road feel. BMW qualities at 2/3 the cost.

Not looking to get a car for $14999. I'll pay for a total quality package. Honda's earned my business.

My $.02 (and probably that of millions of others).

mfletou1 · September 2006

I know that mileage goes down a little bit in the winter time. I was just laughing at the need to point that out--its not like the Camry Hybrid is going to see disproportionate decreases in mpg, and even if it does, its still going to beat the living crap out of everything else in the midsize market, so what's the point?

My problem with the new Altima is that it looks too much like the old one. I don't see anything in the interior all that special, either--even compared to Fusion or Sonata. Of course, its not just about how it looks but how it feels, too, and I can't judge that. One thing is for sure---that particular car pictured is fast. But also pricey.

jeffyscott · September 2006

As far as thinking gas will go back down to $2/gal, I would be willing to bet the price of a hybrid car, that it won't happen.

Are you still offering that bet?...just wondering

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

badgerfan · September 2006

It might have already happened somewhere in the country. Ours are now at $2.37 but we pay very high state tax. Just checked Springfield Illinois, at illinoisgasprices.com where we visited a few weeks ago, and they are now down to about $2.07.

In fact I just checked Georgia, which always has low prices and there is one under $2.00 right now.

Missouri is under $2.00 also.

I'll take my hybrid Escape in red, please!

thegraduate · September 2006

This is slightly off-topic, but GasBuddy.com is a good place to check out gas prices in your area, as well as seeing how they compare to other parts of the country.

Lowest I can find in my state (Alabama) is $2.13, with $2.19 about 2 miles from my house (outside of B'ham).

Other places with gas under $2.15 a gallon include places in Iowa, Ohio, Kentucky, Mississippi, SC, VA, Oklahoma City, and strangely enough, Southern New Jersey.

jrock65 · September 2006

What's the main reason that gas is generally more expensive in the Western half of the U.S.? Is it taxes or something else?

badgerfan · September 2006

Another good site, is to websites xxxgasprices.com where the xxx is replaced by your state name. Then you can go to any other state, or a particular city as well to hone in on your local area. Also you can screen for lowest prices in last 24, hours, 8 hours, 4 hours, etc.

Pretty amazing how rapidly prices have dropped in the last few weeks.

mz6greyghost · September 2006

Dodge Avenger

Is it me, or has every Dodge product introduced since the Magnum seem to have gotten worse and worse? Ugh! :sick:

thegraduate · September 2006

Its actually the same site. For example, you can get "Alabamagasprices.com" or "Birminghamgasprices.com" all from the "gasbuddy.com" main page.

Going to the Gasbuddy.com main page is easy, it shows a map, all you do is click the state on the map where you live, and it will bring up your options (for example, I could choose Mobile, Montgomery, or Birmingham if I live in the metro areas, or choose Alabama if I do not.

Give Gasbuddy.com a try.

badgerfan · September 2006

So I noticed after playing around with that web site. It is a handy tool when scouting your local area for the best price available. I don't drive out of my way to save only a penny or two, but if it is only a few blocks it is worth saving, especially when not all stations raise or lower their prices exactly in unison.

thegraduate · September 2006

I don't drive out of my way to save only a penny or two, but if it is only a few blocks it is worth saving, especially when not all stations raise or lower their prices exactly in unison.

Exactly right. In my daily route, I pass 6 different stations to which I have a Credit Card to (Chevron/Texaco Card). The difference in prices along that route usually spans more than 10 cents a gallon (today it was anywhere from $2.28 to $2.39, three stations were $2.33 though). If I put 10 gallons in my car when I fill up (usually its more), that's a dollar I have saved for that week. I'll easily shop that site for 5 minutes for $50 a year!

explorerx4 · September 2006

if honda is 'all that', why did they bother creating the acura brand?

autoboy16 · September 2006

IMO, it seems as though nissan kept the overall dash style of the current altima but with the quality of the 2005-2006 altimas. Overall, its a good interior. I hope the center dash vent isn't nissans "excuse" for not having vents in the rear! The push button start looks HUGE compared to the smaller ones of the bmw ones...

-Cj

autoboy16 · September 2006

SO they can be ALL THAT TOO!

-Cj :P

explorerx4 · September 2006

yes, you are still learning. :P

ontop · September 2006

Once you 'graduate' the $1 savings will diminish in its importance to you. Sure you want to feel like you get a good deal, but not all stations are created equal. I'll gladly pay the extra $1 for my wife to stop in the station where she doesn't feel like somebody's casing her van (Odyssey BTW).

bhmr59 · September 2006

Thanks for responding what you like about Honda. That post added more to discussions than your posts # 6996, 6906 & 6352.

In your post 6176 you said that most cars have stability control. That's simply incorrect, unless you're talking about a "stabilizer bar" which doesn't begin to do what ESC does.

Hyundai will have electronic stability control standard on 70% of its cars this year, more than any other non-luxury manufacturer. ESC is an option on most brands on which it is offered. ESC is so (relatively) new and has received so little publicity, that I'd bet most buyers wouldn't pay extra for it. Yet, according to IIHS and NHTSA ESC is the biggest safety improvement since the introduction of seat belts. It's more important than the much lauded ABS or even air bags.

ESC includes, but goes beyond ABS and does significantly help avoid accidents.

scape2 · September 2006

I guess I don't understand why you can't flame a Prius for not doing what it is intended to do? :confuse:

scape2 · September 2006

"Ford is usually weak with interiors".. Guess you didn't know the Fusion won the Stratigic Visions award for its interior Hey? Fusion/Milan are pretty tight interiors, may want to take a look.. with an open mind that is.. :shades:

scape2 · September 2006

Motor Trend about the Aurora. With the top o' the line V6... it only beats the "underpowered" Fusion by .2, Yes folks.. .2 seconds.. that is with a 25HP advantage@! Looks like the little 3.0 in the Fusion is really no slouch after all!

kdshapiro · September 2006

Do you think the 700 lb advantage the Fusion (3100) has to the Aurora (3800) has anything to do with the acceleration numbers? Add 700 lbs of people and cargo to the Fusion and see what happens to the acceleration.

thegraduate · September 2006

Once you 'graduate' the $1 savings will diminish in its importance to you. Sure you want to feel like you get a good deal, but not all stations are created equal. I'll gladly pay the extra $1 for my wife to stop in the station where she doesn't feel like somebody's casing her van (Odyssey BTW).

Oh yeah, I realize that $1 a week is minimal to most, but for now, on a part-time paycheck, I'll take every buck I can get. Of the 6 stations on my route, I'd feel safe at 4 of them 24 hours a day. The two others I still feel safe in daylight hours (one is downtown, and the other is a shady-looking one near I-59). Plus, I would be willing to bet less people would pick on a 6'4" male (me) vs. your wife (I don't know, but if I had to guess, I'd say she is smaller than me

).

Either way, I'll always buy the cheapest when I'm buying the same exact product (Chevron/Texaco with Techron - Regular).

goodegg · September 2006

Not sure who "Stratigic Visions" is, but they must be owned by Ford. I thought the Fusion interior was no competition vs. the Asians. Some odd control placements and plastic choices. Don't like the retro lettering - reminded me of an old Maverick the family owned. Especially on the gear shifter, which lacked D2,D3 etc., - a huge oversight vs. everybody else in this comparo.

A car is more than just features bundled together.

cowbell · September 2006

I've only been in 1 Fusion, but I thought it was put together amazingly well. Great lines, and very tight.

I'm not alone on this either:

"The interior fit and finish are particularly impressive. The Fusion looks like an entry-level Audi or BMW inside, with contrasting two-tone treatments, tasteful chrome accents and piano-black finishes that combine for an international, well-equipped feeling." -Pittsburgh Post Gazette

"Interior fit and finish superb" -The Boston Globe

"First of all, the quality of materials and interior fit and finish is superb. Those who would rather buy domestic in order to bolster the economy but aren't necessarily willing to put up with shoddy workmanship compared to top-tier Japanese rivals can rest assured, they wont be making concessions if they choose to buy the Fusion." - Automobile.com

Those were the first three reviews I found when I googled "Fit and finish" and Fusion. Of course newspaper reviews can be nice on a car that gets buys ad space in there paper, but even if they're doing that, they singled out the fit and finish as a highlight to mention.

Not all of them are great. This is the 4th review I found:

"The interior fit and finish is not as well executed as the exterior but it is not horrible. Panels gaps are minimal and the dash is mostly soft touch materials, save for the upper dash cubby hole which is a hard plastic cover, but textured nicely to match the rest of the soft touch dash. All of the controls are lit up at night which is great especially went I cant find them. this is my main beef."
-Canadian Driver

I'm not saying your wrong, but I think it's a stretch to say that any group that gave an award to the Fusion's interior must be owned by Ford. Many people seem to agree its pretty good.

thegraduate · September 2006

I didn't feel like the Fusion was up to par relative to Honda, Toyota, or Hyundai, although it outdid many Nissans easily.

Those who feel the Fusion interior isn't up to snuff with its competitors aren't alone either...

Just curious, I went to the two magazines websites which I subscribe to (Car and Driver & Motor Trend).

C and D writes in its "lows" column for the fusion:

LOWS
Slack fit and finish, awkward HVAC control location, small door pockets.

Motor Trend wrote this about the interior:

Where the Fusion's perfect game aches a bit is in moments of rawness lurking in the shadows. Noise levels here Hum and Whoosh where they hum and whoosh in its rivals. The heel of your throttle foot can sense an unexpected tingle of engine vibration from the floorboard. Little stuff, yes, but it accumulates.

More obvious is the disappointing grade of the interior: the clunky texturing, the ancient green illumination of the dials at night, the styleless, rectangular shape of the sound-system cluster. While the interior is fairly attractive, the look has become so Ford-ubiquitous that one staffer quipped, "I'm not sure if I'm in a Fusion or an F-150."

Both magazines, however, praise the driving dynamics and styling. There ARE many high points for the Fusion, I just don't feel the interior is one of them.

scape2 · September 2006

Guess it really comes down to who you want to believe. Many writers/reviewers ect have praised the interior of the Fusion. I would not call it the best by any means, but not as subpar as some think. Fit/finish are on par with Honda/Toyota. Look with an open mind.. Go to the Stratigic visions web site. They have been around for many years, and they are not owned by Ford. What kind of comment is this? :shades:

explorerx4 · September 2006

it's only a car. prius do get good mileage and are practical as an average size car. i've driven my sister's a few times. they do drive like a minivan, but i did like seeing how long i could get it to drive on battery power only.

thegraduate · September 2006

I would not call it the best by any means, but not as subpar as some think. Fit/finish are on par with Honda/Toyota. Look with an open mind..

(Not trying to be aggravating when I say this) If Ford, Toyota, or Honda does not have the best interior here, which car would you say does?

Of all the cars I've looked at and messed with the switchgear, here was how I would rank the quality and tactile feel:

Honda Accord
(02-06)Toyota Camry (haven't been in an 07 yet)
Hyundai Sonata (was a GL model, but well made)
Nissan Altima (2005-present)
Ford Fusion (SEL model, but interior buttons felt creaky and HVAC placement was poor IMO)
Pontiac G6 (Poor quality - decent design)
Chevy Malibu (Poor quality and BORING design)

I don't know about the strategic vision comment, that wasn't me

!

You'll notice I have Accord at the top of the list for interior quality, design, and tactile feel. You may also recall that one of my biggest criteria for getting the car was interior design/quality, even more important than a V6 was to me.

That's my opinion though, and it doesn't make yours wrong, that's for sure.

bhmr59 · September 2006

Was at a neighbor's for Labor Day cook out. His company car is now a Fusion, replacing 2 or 3 previous Taurus'.

He says the Fusion is much better than the Taurus (he has no vested interest as the car he & his wife own is a Honda CRV).

I checked out the Fusion with him, it was starting to get dark, and liked what I saw. I didn't get in the car because I was smoking a cigarette at the time and he doesn't smoke, but the interior sure looked nice to me.

Two draw backs for me, the "d" and "l" rather than gear selection and I still don't care for the looks of the front end. Neither one would probably be a deal breaker if I were in the market now.

It's not "apples to apples", but what I paid for my '05 Sonata GLS SV in 4/05 made the Sonata a much better value IMO.

tamu2002 · September 2006

Yeah right, the pretentious boys at Car and Driver (and now Motor Trend too) said so. This judge-the-quality-by-touch business with the plastic is way overrated. The boys at Car and Driver like a certain texture and all of a sudden that becomes a benchmark for luxury . Give me a break. Who said we're all supposed to like ONE kind of material and texture? People need to refuse to be told what to like. Make up your own mind already.

I sat in a Fusion and drove it. Contrary to them, I loved the interior (and outside) design and material feel, and thought the driving dynamics was nothing outstanding. The two tone color scheme really makes the car look nice and upscale. Again, anothe person may have a totally different opinion, which is fine. C&D can have their opinions all day long. Just don't expect me to think they come from Sinai. I'm so tired of their snobbery.

jeffyscott · September 2006

I still don't care for the looks of the front end.

Yeah, me too...plus, I don't really care for the looks of the taillights. For the front they are coming out with an optional black chrome grill. That will be part of a package, but I would assume one will also be able to just buy the black grill as a part. I searched and found some pictures where some owners have painted their grill black or to match the body color, really looked a lot better to me that way. I have not seen any alternate taillights, though.

Of course other options are to look at the Milan or the Mazda6.

oracle_of_rock · September 2006

I'm currently looking at an attractive 07 Sonata V6 Limited. I've also looked at the Accord, Camry, Volvo S40, Ford Five Hundred, and Chevrolet Impala.

I realize that the Sonata was redesigned in 2006 but does anyone out there in cyberland have any serious mileage on their 06 or possibly 07 Sonata V6? I really like this car but I'm afraid that 2 or 3 years down the road all the nice things like rattles, engine noise, electronics malfunctions will show up. I've owned 3 Camrys and a Honda Civic so I can accurately guess at their reliability but the new Sonata is a shot-in-the-dark!! The Sonata test drive went very well but the car only had a couple of miles on it. $20,000 + is alot of money to gamble when you have no idea of what the odds are!!

The Sonata price is very attractive but there are those who claim you "get what you pay for."

If anyone has any serious mileage experience with one of the new Sonata V6s, please post your impressions.

Thanks for your help!!

savetheland · September 2006

I cannot understand how people can like Sonata's interior. To me it screams cheap. I do not like design eigther - not tasteful at all. I would compare it to Mitsu Galant. In Fusion some things are done wrong - like cheap looking auido and climate controls. But it still have better design and higher quality interior than Sonata.

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