Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

mfletou1 · September 2006

I've repeatedly detailed my GM experiences, I'm not going to go all into it again, but let me say clearly: the initial quality of ALL our GM cars was very good. The 1 year quality was good in 4/5 of them. The two year quality was good in 3/5 of them. The three year quality was good in 2/5 of them. Four quality--well, only got there on 2 of them, lets call it 1/2. And not one of them went over 48k in that span.

Lesson is that initial quality doesn't mean much. My cars were fine at first, but went south. The intial quailty on my Camry Hybrid has been absolutely flawless. 5800 miles now, absolutely no problems, not so much as a squeak or a rattle. Do I declare this a reliable, quality car? Only so far. I can't make that real pronoucement yet. I have to wait a few years down the road. My GUESS is that it will be, just given that the quality of materials and driving dynamics are superior to any of those other cars I drove/am driving.

Scape--the Taurus is going exclusvely to fleets. If they're having a hard time killing it, its because Hertz prefers to pay Ford $12k for a Taurus rather than $16k for a Fusion, since they can charge consumers the same amount for each of them. The Taurus' SOLE appeal is that its cheap. That's it. A rental car company cares about nothing else. I think its safe to say its a "good car" in the same way my dad's 1999 Oldsmobile 88 was--very reliable, trouble free, good value, but not competitive in any area whatsoever. For some people, that's fine.

kwonc71 · September 2006

Accord EX with leather without Nav $24,000(On sale price-If you are lucky to get one)------$8,600 trade

Sonata LX with leather $18,500(After rebates)------$4,800 trade

You forgot to put purchase price of two.

kwonc71 · September 2006

If you have problem with my next car purchase decision, you pay for it. otherwise, what the big deal?

If you hate Kiadais, and won't buy them, its fine to me. As long as I don't have to pay for your next car.

I had bad experiences with a certain brand, and I don't want to buy them again with my own money. Is it hurts you that much?

savetheland · September 2006

in our SF bay area. Almost all new Sonatas I see on the road and parking lots are rental cars. Pretty much like Taurus - and Sonata is a brand new car unlike Taurus which changed little during last 10 years! Not saying that Sonata is better or worse than Taurus (should be better taking into account 10 years difference) but still it's a fact - evidently nobody wants one.

cajuncycler · September 2006

That was an 83 Tercel wise guy and yeah That was Toyota then and they weren't impressive to most of the buying public. I suspect that cars have come a long way since then and so has Hyundai. Back in 85 they built the Excel a bad copy of the popular little Tercel. Today Hyundai has set it's sights on Toyota and Honda and in many ways like with the plant in Alabama, are surpassing them in the science of building cars. Geez, to some people you gotta explain everything. :confuse:

dump_truck · September 2006

I feel like I'm back in high school arguing over who has the best sneakers. I hope you all realize that none of you will ever make a profit from these companies, and they really don't care about you. With the possible exception of you being an employee for one of these companies. Therefore, there is really no need to be defending a make/model so passionately. Ofcourse besides trying to make yourself feel better/justify the $1,000's more you spent on whatever it is you bought. As many have said, any make/model has the possibility of leaving you stranded on the road.

I don't know what the fuss is over resale value either. I hope one day I can buy cars at the rate of every 3-5 years brand new. I would suspect it is far more likely people intend to keep their cars for as long as possible. And once you have 150k+ on a vehicle, I'm not really sure what kinda resale value you have on any car at that point anyway. And how many people that keep theri cars that long, just hand them off to someone else in the family (son, daughter, nephew, etc.) And how much of resale value is just based on perception/media hype? I think what I see is just as others have said, the big guys are starting to look in their rear view. At some point in time, sooner than you think, the big guys will indeed need explain why they charge $5000-6000 for a comparable vehicle. Sorta like those Wal-Mart commercials that are out now.

As far as rental companies go, they just buy whatever they get the best deal on. Quality has nothing to do w/ it, so rationalizing that because you see a bunch of a certain make/model as a rental car means no one wants them is foolish.

Everything goes in cycles my freinds. Hyundai's and the like cycles are on the way up, and Toyota and Honda are..well lets just wait and see

lilengineerboy · September 2006

We shopped the Accord, Mazda6, and Legacy. The Accord (LX/4cyl/manual) was the sedan benchmark, the Mazda and Subaru were wagons. The Legacy was ~$1500 more than the cheapest price I found for an Accord sedan. The Legacy gives up $1500, 2 mpg, and a less refined motor but gains a wagon body style, AWD, 16" alloy wheels, CD changer and what subjectively amounts to a sportier feel and a more comfortable driving position for short people. A year or so later, we still love the car, mileage is in the high 20s or low 30s depending on who is driving. The non-turbo motor is a little pokey (compared to the duratec V6 in the previous car) but no worse than the Camcord.
The Legacy is the largest car I have ever had, it feels about a third bigger than the '93 Accord, which, incidentially, may soon be replaced by a MS6.

bobad · September 2006

BTW, all these posts putting down the Ford Fusion are also biased. Ford has been producing reliable cars since the model T. They may not have always been beautiful but to say that Fords are cheap or that they don't compare has never owned one or driven one as a fleet vehicle. Fords are hard to kill and I suspect when the dust settles on Dearborn when they are though restructuring, Ford will still be making quality cars in another hundred years. Yes at times they were utilitarian and to some still are. But Fords bad cars? No way.

Very well stated. I liked the Fusion and Sonata eqally, and I had a decision to make. The Sonata was a tad bigger, quieter, and less expensive, and that helped me make my final decision. But I really do like the Fusion. It's a quality car in every respect.

bobad · September 2006

Oh yeah, we already have 10 year quality ratings, It's called resale value. 97 Honda Accord $8,600.... 97 Hyundai Sonata $4,850... We have a new winner!

Wow, that's a $3750 difference, which is exactly the difference in purchase price. I think we have a new new winner!

venus537 · September 2006

"Obviously, you've never driven a 6 with the V6. Not only is the power pretty linear, but it's neither louder, nor any rougher, than any Honda V6 I've ever driven."

Well I have driven a 6 with the V6. It's no match to the Accord's 3.0l V6. It's puncher, smoother and quieter than the duratec.

maxamillion1 · September 2006

So the Taurus still has significant demand from the private sector? I work for a Ford dealership..and NOBODY...I mean NOBODY comes in and asks about the Taurus. Hell, most consumers thought the Taurus was gone after MY2005. It may very well be different in your area, but in Upstate, SC and the Mountains of NC, few consumers care about the Taurus anymore. We don't even get briefed on the Taurus anymore.

Even the Fusion is a hard sell for us, we didn't move many of them until Ford had that 0 for 72 promo going on, which got rid of most of the 06's except the S models. 07s are sitting all over our lot. The Mustang, Focus and Five Hundred move faster than the Fusion does, which is a shame, considering the Fusion is a very good effort by Ford. I think the Honda dealer across the street plays a role in taht.

autoboy16 · September 2006

"The Taurus' SOLE appeal is that its cheap."

IMO, it sounds like sonata... "Theres nothing all that great about it"
From edmunds long term tests, the MPG isn't that great, the interior causes some confusion (as with any new car), and the ergonomics are only OK. It looks ok but thats about as good as it get for me.

-Cj

kdshapiro · September 2006

".. had bad experiences with a certain brand"

If you don't want people to reply and converse about something don't post it. As I said, I can sympathsize, but you are the unlucky person who probably got the two bad Acura has ever produced.

lilengineerboy · September 2006

I recently had a Taurus rental car (I know I know stop laughing) but while I didn't feel like it was fantastic in any one area, it was in CONSTANT use by one of 20 or so people for a long weekend. It was easy to drive, easy to see out of, and got okay fuel mileage (high 20s by its own calculation). The stereo was acceptable, and it was comfortable enough for 4 adults and a baby seat and 3 adults and 2 baby seats.
The prior 3 rentals have been Fusion Zetecs. Driving nicely got about 30 mpg. I don't know, the Fusion didn't feel any more or less bland than the comparable CamCords.

elroy5 · September 2006

And how much of resale value is just based on perception/media hype?

I think resale value is based on what used cars sell best, and how much buyer's are willing to pay for them. No one knows this better than the used car dealers, so I'm sure that's where the statistics come from. Obviously more people are buying used Accords than Sonatas, and are willing to pay more for them.

Everything goes in cycles my freinds. Hyundai's and the like cycles are on the way up, and Toyota and Honda are..well lets just wait and see

I think you are in for a very long wait. Toyota and Honda sales continue to increase every year. More people are buying them every year, not less.

w9cw · September 2006

Elroy 5 - there is no question that an Accord, or a Camry for that matter, will have higher resale values than a Sonata at the 5 year or 10 year intervals - or, whenever you choose to statisticaly calculate it. That, of course, is at the present time with the past perceptional-based values on Hyundai products.

So what if a 10 year old Accord is worth $5K (for example) more than a comparably equipped and same model year Sonata? The Sonata buyer paid at least $5K less than the Accord buyer did to begin with! Can you buy a 2006 or 2007 Accord EX V6 with leather, etc. for $18,465 before TTL? I seriously doubt it. You can buy a 2007 Sonata Limited V6 with leather for that price. Thus, if all you are going to do is quote resale values, to make it a reasonable and valid arguement, you also have to quote the original purchase price of each vehicle - not the MSRP of each, but the actual purchase price. After all, if we are looking at how much money a person loses over a 10 year period, this is the reasonable and valid comparision.

Honda is a great car, so is Toyota, as I've owned both. Hyundai is closing the gap very quickly. Is a current Honda Civic or Accord perceptionally or quality-wise the same as an old Honda Civic CVCC rust bucket or the old Accord? Of course not - just as the current Sonata is not analogous to the old Excel.

elroy5 · September 2006

w9cw, these posters keep saying that an Accord or Camry is not worth the extra $4,000 when purchased new. I am just pointing out that the Camcord is worth more now, and will still be worth more 10 years from now. The problem with your analogy that Hyundai is improving, is that the Camcords are improving just as much (my 03 Accord is lightyears ahead of what my old 92 Accord was). The domestic car makers have been playing "catchup" for the past 15 years. What makes you think Hyundai will be able to do what they can't? IMO, they will always be a generation behind. They have to have something to copy. If you're going to buy a Sonata, you may as well buy a 4 or 5 year old Camcord. Basicly the same thing.

bhmr59 · September 2006

autoboy16, you need to learn the difference between "cheap", "inexpensive" and "value." Maybe you will when it comes time for you to buy a new car with your own money.

It's difficult to determine from your writing style, "Theres nothing all that great about it"
From edmunds long term tests, the MPG isn't that great, the interior causes some confusion (as with any new car), and the ergonomics are only OK. It looks ok but thats about as good as it get for me., where you are quoting Edmund's (if at all). Are these your opinions or are you trying to quote Edmunds?

You don't think that ABS, ESC and side curtain airbags are anything special on even the lowest prices Sonata? How about the quietness, ride, interior room, cargo room and (at least) adequate power? What about the rest of the features that are standard equipment? The real world MPG is very good but certainly not the best.

If you drive a Sonata for a few hundred miles, I'm sure you will not say it is "cheap".

bhmr59 · September 2006

Elroy, sorry but the Sonata has made great advances against the Camcords in the last 5 or 6 years. IMO that weighs differently than a comparison of '97 cars (10 years old). Sonata is closing the gap litle by little. Who knows what the used car value of the respective cars will be 5 years from now. Honda & Toyota have a proven track record. Hyundai has been improving theirs. It takes a while for a used car's durability & reliability to catch up with the present day market. In 5 years, the present 3 year old Sonata (2003)may be quite close to the 2003 Accord on the used car market. When any car starts to make big improvements, there is a time lag for those improvements to show up in the used car market.

People "know" the good reputations and bad reputations. Whether a car is improving or falling back, it takes a while for the public to recognize the relative change.

elroy5 · September 2006

In 5 years, the present 3 year old Sonata (2003)may be quite close to the 2003 Accord on the used car market.

I have a prediction. The 03 Accord and 03 Sonata resale values will be about the same difference as the original purchase prices 5, 10 years from now. Worth more now, and later.

explorerx4 · September 2006

cost more now and cost more later?

autoboy16 · September 2006

The mpg not being all that great came from edmunds stating that the sonata was averaging only 18.* mpg. Here are the links. Be sure to read the comments.

The interior ect came from edmunds. The "Theres nothing all that great about it" quote came from the post I was replying too.

The interior of the sonata isn't all that great. It reminds me of a corolla(le) we rented. ABS, ESC, and the usual 6 airbags for that much are ok but its standard on all vehicle trims I like so I dont worry about it. I never said I don't like the sonata. I gave it points for exterior styling. Its OK not that great.

The sonata is cheap and inexpensive. Its a good car but not great. Too much plastic for me. Don't dislike the sonata and can YOU stop with the personal comments? I have MANY MANY years to buy MANY cars with my own money. I am quite the saver.

Seems weird but its true. The corolla is "inexpensive". It has many of the $23k sonatas options for 16k. It may be smaller but my mom and i averaged 45mpg. Did I mention that like the accord, its 5 YEARS OLD!!

-Cj :P

fushigi · September 2006

"..but you are the unlucky person who probably got the two bad Acura has ever produced."

You seem to have forgotten the tranny issues the TL had. Acura has had way more than just 2 bad vehicles since inception.

On a more general note, there are so many different manufacturers out there that I would not buy another vehicle from the same manufacturer if the ownership experience of my current or a prior vehicle from that company was less than ideal. Thus, for me personally, I'll have to go through a lot of brands before I'll ever consider another Toyota, Ford, or Mazda. Honda is out based on dealership experience. I never made it into the actual car as the dealership staff was rude. Nissan is still in the game and my current car, a 99 Galant, has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. I will easily consider another Mitsu based on my ownership experience, although I am not attracted to the current Galant at all. My wife's Elantra has been practically perfect in over 50K miles so the Sonata is my current top contender for a next vehicle. GM offers nothing of interest to me; a friend has a Malibu and its OK but nothing more. Subarus are mildly appealing but they seem pricey for what you get. Every friend who has ever owned a VW says they aren't reliable.

I'm valuing my experience over that of the data aggregators, but in the end I'm the one who has to live with my decision. They influences my opinions, I suppose, but I buy based on my experiences and those of the people around me that I trust.

As a customer, I probably don't matter much to the car companies anyway. With the exception of a Mercury which didn't even make it to 90K miles (hence the ban on Ford products), I always keep cars for 100+K miles and generally for at least 6-7 years. So even if they do gain my loyalty it's not like I'll be making a dozen purchases in my lifetime.

elroy5 · September 2006

I disagree. I drove the new one before going with the Subaru.

Yeah right. You drove one, you didn't own them. The 03 Accord is much larger, has eight airbags, much stronger stereo, smoother ride, V6 engine, transmission shifts smoother. The 92 Accord was not big enough, under the hood, to get any V6 into, had only one airbag (driver), no vtec (the 03 V6 gets about the same mileage as the 2.2 inline 4 in the 92 Accord did with 100 more hp). The 92 Accord handled great, that's for sure, but considering the larger size and weight of the 03 version, it handles pretty darn good.

kdshapiro · September 2006

"You seem to have forgotten the tranny issues the TL had. Acura has had way more than just 2 bad vehicles since inception."

Actually, no I haven't. But I've refrained from listing all of the issues that plagued each manufacturer within the last 10 years. Especially Hyundai and Kia.

As far as your comment on Subarus I couldn't disagree more. Instead of looking at them as being pricey, my take is you get what you pay for. And with Subarus you generally get a lot, although like any other vehicle there are tradeoffs. Admittedly some of the tradeoffs annoy me.

The dealership experience is important, and I not only shop for a car, I shop for dealer. I also shop based on personal experience rather than the statistics purveyors. My choice of car manufacturers is rather limited. Maybe Toyota, Honda, Subaru, BMW and Porsche.

bhmr59 · September 2006

Thanks for the pix. Both interiors look nice to me. The look of the seat in in Hyundai is nicer than the look of the Toyota. I'd have to sit in them to see the real difference. All the newer cars have a lot of plastic as a cost & weight saving measure.

When you are ready to purchase a new car, with your own money that you are saving, let us know what you decide. After that, let us know what you decide a few years later when you have a home of your own (& hopefully a nice family to support).

A few thousand $ might make a difference to you then.

lilengineerboy · September 2006

I am truly happy you are enjoying your vehicle. I am glad it met your needs and you feel it was a good value.

I agree that in 15 years they figured out to put a bigger engine in it since they made the car heavier, and they added a bigger stereo.
The comparison lacks compatibility though, a better benchmark would be the 4 cylinder model, which went from 2.2 to 2.4l and they added vtec (which was available in 1993 in the H22 in the Prelude, which was actually installed in the Accord for export). The V6 is considerably more $$$ even when inflation is taken into account.
I also am not a fan of Honda automatics, but I am a big fan of their manuals. I think in the late 80s and early 90s, they pretty much wrote the book on FWD manual transmissions.
I guess if you can make the car be that much more expensive, I would expect some improvement. I am glad you found that it was satisfactory.

elroy5 · September 2006

What were the Sonata engineers thinking? Let's put the A/C vents down here, just to be different. Where are we going to put the radio now? We can just cut out a part of the dash and put it there. Bad design, looks awful.

elroy5 · September 2006

The comparison lacks compatibility though, a better benchmark would be the 4 cylinder model, which went from 2.2 to 2.4l and they added vtec (which was available in 1993 in the H22 in the Prelude, which was actually installed in the Accord for export). The V6 is considerably more $$$ even when inflation is taken into account.

What I was comparing is the best Accord available in 92, and the best Accord available in 03. There is a big difference. From hanging around on Honda forums, I've found that many 4th generation Accord owner's have swapped in the Prelude H22 vtec engine, in place of the stock F22. The F22 was not a bad engine (for that time), but the H22 dohc vtec was much better.

lilengineerboy · September 2006

I can see that comparison then, it makes more sense in that light of top of the line to top of the line. I would also add in the $5k or so to go from the equivalent model (like a 4 cylinder EX to the V6 EX).

thesniper · September 2006

Oh boy... this thread has gone from Sonata vs Camcord to
Fusion vs Camcord. What's next? Fusinota vs Camcord? Yeah, I like the sound of it!

lightfootfl · October 2006

Sorry, but do I read this correctly? Are/did you actually get 45mpg average, not a show one time on a computer? On a 5 year old vehicle. I really don't know of ANY vehicle that old, or new even, getting anywhere near that. That excludes these hybrid things. I just may look for a used Corolla.

Thanks, van

autoboy16 · October 2006

Almost 45mpg. It was 44.** so I rounded it 45mpg. It got us from miami (cutler ridge) to atlanta (dekalb) on 1.5 tank of gas driving between 70 and 90mph with the ac blowing on the third level. It had a 6disk changer, outside temperature gauge, nice trunk and variable intermittent wipers. It even had SPEED SENSITIVE STEERING, something more expensive cars dont have. Driving at 90mph was fun! We wished for lumbar support at one point but we eventually improvised with pillows. For a little car, it had good power and a GREAT sounding engine (if your into 4cylinders)! We ended us spending a total of $30 on gas(prices between $2.7* and $3.05)

Heres our distance:

My future vehicle WILL be a corolla! Hopefully cars won't fly by then...

-Cj

:P

lightfootfl · October 2006

Thanks, now I think I will have to look around for a used Corolla. That seems like great mileage to me. I am quite familiar with that route, etc and "you done good".

van

backy · October 2006

The radio in the 2002-2006 Camry was in the same position as in the current Sonata. I suppose that was a bad design for Toyota, also. I've read multiple reviews on the Sonata that mentioned the convenient placement of the radio controls. I'm not sure what the issue is with the placement of the dash vents. When I lived with a Sonata for a week in Texas in June, I didn't have any problem at all adjusting the vents so they'd cool the cabin without blowing on my hands. That's a common problem with many dash vents. You may have noticed the dash vents on the 3 Series are in about the same position, except the radio controls are down low on the console where they are harder to reach. The Land Rover has the same kind of layout as on the Sonata--radio/nav up high, then dash vents, then HVAC. Are these bad designs too?

elroy5 · October 2006

Seems to me if you spend any amount of time adjusting the radio, or HVAC you would have a frozen arm. The part I was referring to as bad design is the cut out around the radio. If you look at both pictures, the Corolla has smooth flowing lines all the way from the console to the middle of the dash. The Sonata dash looks like one piece was designed first, then the other. They don't match up very well.

lilengineerboy · October 2006

The radio is the most common adjustment in the car (I do some work with this...). Given that its the control most people use most, it should be in the highest, easiest to reach, most visible location. Additionally, most AC controls are very large and basic and can be reached with ballistic movements and don't require a high degree of accuracy to adjust (big buttons and knobs are good) compared with a relatively high number of relatively small buttons on the radio. From a distraction safety standpoint, the higher the radio the better.

I think the worst implementation of this was in a 98-02 import minivan, which had the radio below the vents, below the AC controls, so low in the dash that you had to look down to read it (and the display wasn't angled up at the driver either) in addition to being out of reach of shorter drivers. Wow, what a long way they have come with that!!

If someone is adjusting the radio so much that their arm freezes in front of the AC, they need to just put in a CD before they being their journey

backy · October 2006

The radio surround could be less plain, although ergonomically I think it's fine. I suspect that one of the reasons the cut-out is as it is is to accomodate the nav unit. I've seen photos of the Sonata with nav and it looks better integrated into the dash than the radio on the U.S. Sonatas.

Did you notice the Aura has a very similar design for the radio placement?

No, I didn't get a frozen arm adjusting the HVAC or the radio. Keep in mind that with many cars, the vent is between the steering wheel and the radio and/or HVAC controls, so I guess you'd really get a frozen arm/hand reaching across that vent every time you need to adjust either one.

kwonc71 · October 2006

Do you ever buy Sunday newspaper? Many Hyundai dealers around town sell LX for $18,500. GLS V6 for $16,500. GL for $14,995.

Your numbers are too far away from real.
Top Sonata with Moon, V6, leather, ESC, ABS, Traction,6 CD with sub............so much more for $18,500.
Camry with those options will rape your wallet for another $10,000.

Corolla, not even go there. I park my LX next to my co-worker's brand new $17,000 Corolla at work.
Just outside look alone, my car looks three times more expensive.

autoboy16 · October 2006

My neighbor/ best friend just bought(received from graduating high school) a new 2007 accord ex with all the goodies but 4 cyl for $15k.

My moms 2002 miata looks better than her bosses benz and its cheaper, so your point is? Your car is more expensive than the corolla. Remember, the corolla is 5 years old with interior ergonomics up to sonata and fusion stats but for less. When you get 44mpg, let us know!

-Cj

mfletou1 · October 2006

Sonata/Fusion/GM cars are building vehicles that end up coming close to matching Accords and Camry's at the END of their model years. The Sonata and Fusion match up very well against the 2006 Camry, for instance. But the Accrod and Camry aren't standing still. The 2007 Camry is absolutely light years ahead of the 2006. We don't know yet what the 2008 Accord will look like, but I suspect they'll do everything to match and surpass the Camry that they can.

I'm amazed after a little over 3 months of ownership just how GOOD everything on the Camry is. I'm just talking about little things, like the feel of the door handle, or the way the hooks are built. We were parked next to a Fusion, and the seatbelt mechansim caught my eye. The adjuster is exposed on the Fusion, just as it is on our Malibu Maxx. The Camry's not, its built into a device that hides the mechanics and lets you slide it. Just little things, but they add up. And stereo quality--even at the Hybrid price point--is amazing and equiavlent to what you'll find in a 35k car.

backy · October 2006

That price is, well, incredible. The invoice on a 2007 Accord EX I4 with "all the goodies" is nearly $25k. Why would any dealer sell such a popular car for $10,000 under invoice?

thegraduate · October 2006

Yeah, i think either the friend is pulling his leg, or maybe he's not including a trade-in... I would be more apt to believe that they "financed" only $15,000... but a 2007 EX-cloth should be at very minimum $21,500-ish...unless it has been damaged/wrecked or has a major problem.

A Civic LX costs more than $16k these days...

drdonrs · October 2006

What's all the fuss about? My son has an 04 Honda Accord 6 with all the bells and whistles. Within 1 month of owning the car the struts had to be replaced. Recently his dashboard shorted out and in addition the car has had interior quality problems. It's not an isolated case because he has an 04 CRV which came with loose engine mounts and strut problems. He was at first somewhat negative and defensive when I bought my Sonata LX, sort of how can I drive a Hyundai product. Well now after several months of ownership and a second purchase of an Azera Limited he has hinted that he will be considering a Hyundai Sonata when his lease runs out in several months. I have been reading all the "nit picking" in many of the posts here and over at Hyundai Forum and it gets me chuckling a bit. I have no problem with the vents, just takes redirecting if there is a problem for someone. The radio controls, they can and should be preset and how difficult is it to hit the number, if one must continually change stations, although I don't know why. I looked at the overall picture before buying a Hyundai product. The product, apparent quality level, features, safety provisions, best warranty in the business, and last but not least the price differential. Folks, it was a "no brainer" for the Sonata and the Azera.
Has any one seen the latest Motor Trend magazine? Hyundai is going to be introducing a real upscale rear wheel sports sedan for 2008 available in 2007 and something even more esoteric in 2009. It will be going head to head with the Infiniti GS. No one has to be ashamed to have the H emblem on their car anymore and Toyota has acknowledged that they are looking in the rear view mirror and seeing one competitor moving up on its tail, quickly.
As an aside I have previously posted that I come from a longstanding relationship with Acura TL's and I really don't miss them. Happy as a lark with my Hyundais.

autoboy16 · October 2006

Nope brand new ex w/cloth for $15k. No trade in, no money down, It may have been an 06 leftover. I didn't believe it when she showed me the papers either. I thought she was pulling my leg. Then I saw it in all its redness with all the windows and sunroof open.

The dealers in this area are very lenient and easy to negotiate with. The Expedition (eddie bauer) my dad is looking at is priced at $14k with dvd and everything but Nav. The only downside is the 76k miles but thats not bad for an 04.

Cj

lilengineerboy · October 2006

Hmm maybe an '04/05 leftover

backy · October 2006

First, you realize you said 2007. Second, you said "with all the goodies". A cloth Accord EX is not "with all the goodies." Still, if anyone could get a new one (not a demo or loaner) for anywhere near $15k that would be the Deal of the Century (or Decade at least).

My concern for your friend is that there are flood-damaged cars being shipped around the country and sold for very low prices to unsuspecting individuals. I hope this is not one of those cars. But if it was purchased from a Honda dealer, then I doubt that is the case.

imidazol97 · October 2006

Odd they wouldn't be sure what year car it is...

That's usually the first thing that's determined when poring over a friend's new vehicle.

dump_truck · October 2006

And how much of resale value is just based on perception/media hype?

I think resale value is based on what used cars sell best, and how much buyer's are willing to pay for them. No one knows this better than the used car dealers, so I'm sure that's where the statistics come from. Obviously more people are buying used Accords than Sonatas, and are willing to pay more for them.

i guess i should have clarified my point further, as some posters have since my last post. all of those things you mention i would be willing to say are absolutely true. but, these are all factors influenced by public opinion/media hype. people are more willing to buy more used accords/camry's etc, because they have a long standing quality reputation and are backed by just about every consumer magazine on the planet. whereas these things have just started happening for hyundai in the last 5 years. they are still fighting the negative perception from years past. you can see hundreds of posts on this board and others with comments along the lines of...'i can't believe i'm even looking at a hyundai, 5 years ago i made fun of this car?!?!' although they now have made quality vehicles for a few years, the old perception is still around, and the public perception is lagging behind accordingly. as you would expect from this, more accords and camry's have been puchased than sonata's over the last 5 years, so ofcourse there are more used car sales of these models. the pot to draw from is bigger, and the negative(but innaccurate)perception of hyundai is still there. once the perception of hyundai becomes more positive, those resale values will continue to rise as they have been. not to mention the current difference in resale price is around the difference in purchase price to begin with, making it a wash.

all cars discussed are good cars. i think people are just trying to say there isn't a $4-6K difference between them.

scape2 · October 2006

"Not a fluke either, I'm lining up to get a Fusion this winter, I guess I'll have to retire my escort before it's time. Bought new in 97, it has 228K on it, no issues, not dying anytime soon, still on it's factory AC charge... giving it to my nephew to beat on it some more to try and kill it...

Wow!! you have 228,000 miles on your Escort! Boy that will sure make the Honda/Toyota crowd think a little!.. :shades:

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