Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

1…1516182021…235

Comments

  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    Honda and Toyota did not indulge in any false advertising; the SAE has changed procedures for testing HP with effect from 2006, and most manufacturers are restating HP numbers according to teh new guidelines, even though they are not required to do so.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    voluntarily retested all models using the new standards even though they were not required to. Their HP ratings were legimate using the standards in place at the time. SAE changed their standards and Honda/Toyota retested to provide accurate ratings under the new system. It's no coincidence that the main purveyor of this story seems to be Detroit News. That city has a vested interest in making Hon-Yota look bad.
  • kingsalmonkingsalmon Member Posts: 97
    Thanks for the clarification! One can easily be fooled into thinking companies do their own testing. Has the SAE always tested each company's vehicles or is this more recent? :blush:
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    from what I understand, does not test the vehicles themselves. They set guidelines that the manufacturer's follow when testing their vehicles for HP ratings.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Accord auto I4 LX Sedan: $21,375
    Accord auto V6 EX Sedan: $27,850

    The above prices include $550 destination charge.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    the ENTIRE Accord Sedan lineup is updated on Hondacars.com
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I don't know why people can't understand that Honda and Toyota didn't lie about anything.

    This hp issue IS NOT the same as Hyundais or Mazdas was a couple years ago.

    This hp issues is due to SAE changing their testing proceedures.
  • kingsalmonkingsalmon Member Posts: 97
    I understand! I just responded to accordman and thanked him for his explanation of this mess. Please read the other posts and then reply with an accusation. Dude we have a lot of Honda/Toyota apologists here. So that everyone can read, "I AM SORRY." I misread the article and I think anyone can easily misinterpret the article I read when the article singles out Toyota and Honda. Believe it or not, Honda and Toyota are not perfect companies. They are better than Mitsubishi or any American company for the time being, but they aren't flawless. I repeat. My mistake.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Nice writeup from Autoweek on the 06' Passat:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103018
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    August Sales

    Car..................Number of cars sold
    CAMRY...........39,896
    ACCORD.........46,153 + 2,336 Hybrid
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    YTD Accord sales are down 2.8% to 258K while Camry sales are up 3.5% to 299K. I think the hybrid numbers are included in the 46K figure. Honda must have had some better dealer incentives going on in August.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    In a CR test of real world mileage, they got 25 mpg overall for the Accord Hybrid and 23 mpg overall for the regular Accord EX V6 sedan.

    A whopping 2 mpg difference. At least according to CR in this test, Accord Hybrids are a terrible deal from a financial point of view.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=77276- 7&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=389451&bmUID=1126202577941
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    "Accord Hybrids are a terrible deal from a financial point of view."

    Yeah, but at least the Accord hybrids will carry about a $5,000.00 penalty when the traction batteries eventually have to be replaced... ;) (Even if those batteries are still covered under a warranty, if they're prorated on the basis of mileage received against an inflated "warranty adjustment" price sheet, at that point, "terrible" still instantly deteriorates to "disastrous".)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sonata joins the Galant as the only "import" mid-sized cars to get four 5-star ratings in the NHTSA's frontal and side crash tests:

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ncap/cars/3754.html

    The new Passat should do well, but hasn't been tested yet.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    noticed something.

    The 2004 Accord got 4/5 for Side
    The 2005 Accord got 4/4 for Side

    The 2004 was not equipped with SAB
    The 2005 was equipped with SAB

    2004 Crash Test
    2005 Crash Test

    Can someone explain to me why the 2005 got a lower rating then the 2004? Maybe cars w/o SABs are rated differently?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No, they're not. But no two cars are exactly alike. The threshold for a 5-star side impact score is a TTI of 60 or less. The 2004 Accord scored 56 in the rear; the 2005 scored 61--just over the threshold. But also note that the TTI score for the front side impact was better on the 2005, and the head impact scores were much better on the SAB-equipped Accord.
  • hraohrao Member Posts: 78
    I have been driving a 1999 Camry and looking to purchase a new one.
    Did 2005 Toyota Camry only has NHTSA 4 Star side impact crash test rating for 2005 , hard to believe but, how can I verify this ?
    and what does a 4 star crash test rating mean for my safety?
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Actually, I dont trust NHTSA as much as I trust IIHS.

    Also, the Camry got a 4 star for the front passenger and 3 stars for the rear passenger in the side test. It was also not equipped with Side Airbags/Side Curtain Airbags.
    5 stars= 5% or less chance of serious injury
    4 stars= 6% to 10% chance of serious injury
    3 stars= 11% to 20% chance of serious injury

    This Site tells you how NHTSA rates their cars

    The Camry got a Poor from IIHS when it was not equipped with Side Curtain Airbags.
    But, it got a Good when it was equipped with optional Side Airbags.
    IIHS crash test results
  • banditboybanditboy Member Posts: 54
    After a tonne of research i brought myself a midsize sedan.....
    I am 6 3 and 33 inseam
    Requirements
    ABS/TCS,
    5 speed,
    Moonroof
    20k max - OTD[ 5% Tax + TL]

    i test drove the following

    Altima : rought engine and the 5 speed was decent but no abs [i am not sure why nissan thinks a car can be sold without anything if choosen as a 5 speed
    or ofcourse get the 27k SER for every thing ....

    Sonata 5 speed: The LX is assembled in korea and man the clutch pedal is freaking close to the brake and gave me a sore ankle

    Accord ; Found 2 5 speed sedans in gold LX....i liked it alot and was a fun ride...
    i need to add a sunroof for 1100$ after buying to make it the way i want it ...
    came to 22k .[i was about to get it]

    Camry : I did not like the way it accelerated so accord was up their now.

    Now last year i took part in the mazda rev--it and did drive a mazda 6 wagon so stopped at a local dealr

    18,600 for a 5 speed mazda with sports package ,moonroof ,bose 6 cd changer.
    TCS/ABS and eletronic brake assit.

    Then found the 03-04 mazda 6 had the new design bugs sorted out so went ahead and got ot

    otd - 20,500 with LoJack ...and 5 % tax

    The 5 speed of the accord was better and interior space but mazda hugs the ground in turns like no ones business....
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    The Mazda6 is ALREADY a pretty good car, and discounts on those cars are incredible.

    Some Mazda6 Sport models are going for prices below the Mazda3!!!!
  • oldjoeoldjoe Member Posts: 132
    Please do not say that the Hyundai Sonata can be compared to The Honda Accord...it gives me a case of stomach trouble. My I4 Honda even eats up the Hyundai V6 with its low gas mileage/. Test drive a Honda I4 and then test the Hyundai V6...no discernable difference in acceleration but a 20% penalty on gasoline usage. Remember, Honda or Toyota do not do everything excellantly...they just do everything darn well.
  • smith20smith20 Member Posts: 256
    Please do not say that the Hyundai Sonata can be compared to The Honda Accord...it gives me a case of stomach trouble.

    Wow, you are really biased . . .

    Test drive a Honda I4 and then test the Hyundai V6...no discernable difference in acceleration

    . . . and this assertion seems ridiculous. I'm wondering if you really did this proposed test yourself.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Actaully the Mazda 6 has even worse gas mileage than you are suggesting. My siter-in-law has the Mazda 6i ( 4 cylinder automatic) and I don't east it up but I gat better mileafge in my V6 6-speed Honda Accord coupe by several miles per gallon on the highway.

    Mazda 6 are fun and sporty, but they don't get close to the EPA rated gas mileage. It might not be of concern to you, but to many it is becuase of high gas prices.

    MidCow
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Please do not say that the Hyundai Sonata can be compared to The Honda Accord

    Well... it can be; I did it ('05 Accord EX I4 to '06 Sonata GLS I4); and the Sonata came out very well in comparison to the Accord. Have you driven both cars, comparably equipped, back-to-back over the same roads as I did?
  • jahnu04jahnu04 Member Posts: 58
    MidCow-

    I own a 04 AT Mazda6 wagon and have put more than 11K miles. My commute is 70/30 Hwy/City driving and I get close to 26 mpg. EPA: 19 city/26 hwy. I live in Minnesota, during winter I avarage around 22-23, but for the last 4 months I have been consistently getting above 25. Recently I had also been on a 600 mile long trip and averaged 29+, 95% hwy, 70 mph and cruise on, I was surprised to see that number.

    This one replaced my 95 Camry, Mazda6 is truly fun to drive (will never go back to camry again) and I knew when I bought the car that I would not get more than 26 for my regular commute. So far no complaints. Yes, it would had been nice if it gave couple more miles.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    I think the CR acceleration figures are obtained by releasing the brake and stomping on the gas pedal. No brake torqueing like the auto mags do.

    You are correct, CR purchases the vehicles from dealers whereas the car mags have them supplied by the manufacturers. I don't believe there's is any payola going on but I'm sure the manufacturers supply vehicles that are gone over with a fine tooth comb and meet or exceed all factory specs. Makes you wonder about the recent electronic failures in the BMW C&D tested.
  • johnson5johnson5 Member Posts: 34
    Seems to be there is another car 5% smaller than Sonata in size and weight, comes with a 200hp 6 cyl new engine with all the fuel saving features, Traction control and Stability control . Hopefully the estimated EPA miles may be around 32-33.
    It is 2006 Kia Optima...expected in another 4 months.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Where did you hear the V6 would be new? The reports I've read to date say it's the same 2.7L V6 engine that the Optima has now. Which doesn't sound right considering how underpowered that engine is compared to the competition these days. The pics I've seen of the new Optima looked pretty good, especially the interior. I think I like the exterior of the Sonata better.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Actually if you look at the topic of this thread the Kia is not included and it is off-topic to discuss it.

    What is this discussion about? Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda MAZDA6, Sedan, Auto News, Opinion, Car Photos, Car Reviews
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Optima is a mid-sized imported sedan, correct? In other discussions that suffer from the same problem this one does (max of six cars can be listed), our Host allowed us to discuss other cars that applied to the topic. Hopefully that is the case here as well. We have actually done that in the past, e.g. the Galant and Legacy have popped up, and there were no complaints (from the Host, or from other posters like you).
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    From what I've heard, the Optima will use the same 2.7 but with variable valve timing and a few other enhancements to give it 197hp. Not sure where I heard that, but it sounds believable.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Backy,

    You are probably right. There is a similar thread, Edmund's has so many threads, on economy cars in the range $16-20K and they don't want you to discuss cars in the range of $16-20K only those few that were listed in the title thread :confuse: .

    There was also a thread comparing three cars, and when some talk about only one car it is okay, but when others do it is moved :confuse:

    But you are right the new Kia Optima probably fits into Mid-sized sedans. :) It also looks like Kia is moving into the competion

    How close are you to buying a new car and what is your short list?

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,486
    I know the title is Import, but it might be interesting to throw a domestic into the mix when the new Ford Fusion finally comes out. It is based on the Mazda 6 platform (although slightly expanded), and the initial reviews make it sound like a legitimate competitor to the old standbys (CamCord).

    Supposed to drive like a 6, but much roomier.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,486
    I have been looking lately. I started with compacts (the new Civic, and the Mazda 3). My wife decided it would make more sense to get something in the midsize class (even though it will cost me more money!)

    Anyhow, as of now, the Accord is the top contender. I refuse to own a Camry (way to isloated and spongy for my taste). The 6 is nice, but I don't find the seats very comfortable (I'm very particular about seats), although the deals are good.

    I mentioned the Fusion because I plan to look at it as soon as it finally shows up. I'm hoping it is as advertised (offering the drving dynamics of the 6, but with more room in the back seat, and more comfortable front seats). Pricing seems aggressive, assuming there are some discounts.

    If the Fusion tested out as nicely as the Accord (my test, that is), it would be hard to ignore a price differential of +/- 3K.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I will be buying a new car within the next year. I can't give my short list here because most of it would be off-topic. And it's an evolving list. But of the mid-sized imports, the Sonata is currently my #1 choice, although I'll have to take a look at the refreshed Accord, the new Camry (if it's out by then), and maybe the Mazda6i (although if I go Mazda it will probably be another one--which happens to be off-topic). I'll have to drive the Optima too, but Kia won't give me a loyalty rebate like Hyundai will--and they don't include their cousin Hyundais as "competition" for the competitive rebates. Plus I have a coupon good for $250 off best price on my next Hyundai.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Backy,

    Thanks, I asked because you always have good input and analysis.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • johnson5johnson5 Member Posts: 34
    In Europe, Magentis( Optima) buyers will have a choice of three engines: 2.0-liter four and 2.7-liter V6 gasoline units (rated at 146 and and 195 horsepowerand a 142-hp, 2.0-liter diesel. In the U.S., Optima buyers get to choose between the two petrol-burning engines, with the four connected to a four-speed automatic transmission and the six channeled through a six-speed automatic
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hmmm. I wonder if that 2.0L gas engine is the all-new new Hyundai/DC motor that will replace the current 138 hp Beta engine? Interesting how the Optima gets a 6-speed auto and the Sonata only five!
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Take a look at the new Hyundai Sonata. It's been getting good reviews.

    Maybe you'll prefer it or maybe you won't. You could save a lot compared to the Acord or you could get a more deluxe trim for the same type of money. Have you seen the comparision, I think it was C &D, of the '06 Sonata, '05 Accord & "05 Camry? In the $22K price range they rated the Sonata the best.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    I think it was C &D, of the '06 Sonata, '05 Accord & "05 Camry? In the $22K price range they rated the Sonata the best.

    I believe it was Edmunds who did the comparison. C&D hasn't came out with a comparison yet between the 3 (from what I know) My prediction is they will come out with a comparison in 2006/07 since there are so many new sedans coming out.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,486
    Yes, I did see some positive reviews. I believe that Edmunds also rated it 1st ina comparison.

    But, all the test I have seen have been of the V6. I drive a stick, so that leaves me at a 4 cyl / 5 speed.

    the Sonata also tends to be higher rated because they compare similar priced models, not equipment. So, the V6 Sonata was going against a 4 cyl in the other cars.

    Of note, the CamCord does get much better mileage. In the comparison, the Accord averaged 27, and the Hyundai 20. The performance isn't that much different either.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • banditboybanditboy Member Posts: 54
    I been following this thread as i just got a mazda6i 6 days go....the 1 point is the comparision between the sonata V6 and I4 accords + camry ....

    I read alot of people saying that the comparison should have been with equal configured car and was wondering the price difference between a equal equiped
    accord and sonata is 4k -5k and considering the same progression

    a acura tl ,lexus is300 ,bmw 3 series ,accord is 4k can we include them in a midsize comparision if they have compariable equipment?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No, all of those vehicles but the Accord are in a different class and are being discussed at this link: Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans. I'm not sure why you keep wanting to mix up classes. Occasionally on a one-to-one basis that can fly (even though some will always object), but in a multi-vehicle comparo, it is completely unworkable.

    In fact, some of these differing-class vehicles ARE being compared one-to-one - take a look at the list on this board (Comparisons) - but we are not going to do it in a multi-vehicle match-up.

    I think if you use the Browse by Vehicle search on the left to look up the vehicles you find of interest, you'll be able to locate lots of discussions that will suit your interests. That way you won't have to keep trying to rearrange conversations that are already underway. If you can't find what you need and/or if you have any questions, email me. Thanks.
  • banditboybanditboy Member Posts: 54
    I guess it shows english is not my first language so might have lost in translation....

    But, my point was that accord v6 loaded with everything does not belong in this discussion and most people i know including me shop in a price range than
    option in different cars with different price

    No thread hijacking ....i was trying to make a point that price is an important and most case only citeria so the edmunds comparision actually makes sense to me

    when i was shopping for 20 k car the 22k accord was suggested a few times
    but for me it was not a item to compare,i used a 5 speed LX not the DX which had everything i need except the price
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Okay, gotcha, but the Accord is definitely part of this discussion, loaded or not.

    Just check the "What is this discussion about?" about line (or, more easily seen, the price quote and consumer review links) at the top of the discussion to find out on what vehicles the discussion is primarily focused.

    And again, if you have any questions or can't find what works for you, just drop me an email.

    Thanks.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    But, my point was that accord v6 loaded with everything does not belong in this discussion and most people i know including me shop in a price range than
    option in different cars with different price

    So, what your saying is, a loaded Accord does not belong in this discussion?
    I'm still quite confused as to what your saying.

    People who shop for the Accord EX V6 will most likely cross-shop it will the Nissan Altima 3.5SE, Camry SE/XLE V6, and Hyundai Sonata LX V6. And in some cases, the Acura TL or G35.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The Accord is most definitely part of this discussion and that fact is not up for debate. So let's keep going.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,486
    I think the point the poster was trying to make is that some of these cars (such as the Accord) cover a wide price spread. Big difference from a base DX to a loaded EX V6. So, you have to be careful to compare equivelant models, which due to different pricing structures, may be wildly different in content.

    So, a loaded V6 Sonata vs. an LX Accord 4 cyl, may be the same price. Or, do you compare it to an EX V6, which costs a lot more.

    Or, he could have had a completely different point, but I still like this one!

    Actually works on the bottom and top end. That loaded Accord creeps into TL territory (price and equipment), while a lower end car (or Korean brand) might compete with compacts like the CIvic on price.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Shoot, the Civic competes with the Accord on price! ;)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Makes sense, thanks. :)
This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles