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Acura RL vs. Infiniti M35

1235

Comments

  • howardk111howardk111 Member Posts: 17
    You're doing well. I'm on my third tank now and have barely been getting 15 mpg so far, all in city driving (which includes some time on city freeways).
  • saxman911saxman911 Member Posts: 9
    Hi,

    FYI,

    The M35x with the premium package does have the power rear shade too..
  • saxman911saxman911 Member Posts: 9
    Hi all,

    My dealer on Long Island (Atlantic Infinity) had a difficult time searching for my M35x (Premium Package)
    He did call me to give me a Vin number for the exact vehicle (Sand with Wheat interior) but had to go to another dealership. After making inquiries about the Vin number with Infiniti Corp, (1 800 662-6200) they informed me that the car left Japan on December 6th 2005. Here are my questions: Can this car be tracked as it crosses the pacific and heads for the east coast? (any website for this?) Also, the car is coming with the high polished Chrome wheels (18 inch) which I told my salesman I didn't want. Do you think infiniti will let the wheels slide or replace them with the standard 18 inch titanium hubs?
    Finally, if it left on December 6th from Japan, can anybody approximate a date when It would arrive at my Infiniti dealer on Long Isalnd NY?

    Anyway, glad to be a new member here

    TIA for all replies.

    Alan Russell
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi, welcome! Congrats on your arriving new wheels!!

    Since this is a specific comparo between the RL and the M35, your question would really be better placed in our Infiniti M35/M45 2006+ discussion. Why don't you follow that link and repost there.

    Again, welcome - hope your M35 arrives very soon!
  • saxman911saxman911 Member Posts: 9
    Sorry Pat,

    was a bit confused..I did send the post to the appropriate forum as you suggested.

    Maybe you can reply with any knowledge that you have..

    Thanks

    Alan Russell
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No need to apologize ... glad to have you here! :-)
  • birdbirdbirdbird Member Posts: 63
    In my opinion, the "cons" on the M35x are as follows: (1) a trunk door that is rather heavy and much harder to raise up than other cars in this class, (2) the wood on the interior does not look as expensive as the Acura RL and some of the others.

    The main plus to this car is the rear view camera that I think is a huge safety advantage! You have to pay extra to get it on the RL.

    The main down sides to the RL, in my opinion are (1) a much wider turning radius than the other cars in this class, and (2) not enough back seat room.

    Personally, I think the appearance of the RL is as sporty as any of the others although I don't think any of them look that great.
  • varixvarix Member Posts: 72
    I always find the difference in opinions regarding the wood trim in the M35 and RL interesting. IMHO the matted wood trim of my M35x is very elegant and reminds of the trim on large pleasure boats and yachts I've seen at boat shows particularly with a light coat of furniture polish, it doesn't shout at you like the shiny and slippery or wet-looking trim in other cars, however I must admit the RL's not too bad in this respect. The shiny look always seems over polished, stuck on and "noisy", like it's trying too hard to convince me it's wood and still looking like plastic. My M35x trim still looks like the real wood it is. Obviously just my thoughts...
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    I've seen a number of posts on these boards about wood with matte finish as opposed to the polished wood. I'd never seen the matte finish so didn't have a comparison. However, at the Washington Auto show last week, I saw several cars with the matte finish and did not like it at all. It looked fake to me - sort of like it was wood grain stamped on. Just a personal opinion.
  • c5_4func5_4fun Member Posts: 59
    I shopped these two cars for a couple months, and I ditto your comments. I liked different things about each of them, but not enough one way or the other to have a clear choice. So, I finally decided to go buy a new car a few weeks ago and went to the Acura dealer (since I liked the last two Acuras I bought from this dealer 2 and 4 years ago). I sat around the dealership waiting for the internet salesman (whom I made an appointment with the night before and asked to see when I arrived) for 45 minutes at which time I tried to get another to help me but he wouldn't infringe on the other guy's deal. I left and went to the Infiniti dealer where I received their undivided attention and drove home a new M35X.
    Now that I've been driving the M35x, I'd also throw in that its gas mileage is lower than I expected (haven't hit 17 yet with mixed city and highway driving), and the seat heater isn't the warmest and doesn't warm the seat back at all. However, my kids enjoy the back seat room much more in the M35x, and I like the exterior looks better.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    They just need to scale back on those hideous tail lights.The car would be phenomenon (cosmetically) IMHO if the rear was designed better.
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    But only other drivers see your tail lights...usually pulling away from them.
  • nettravel99nettravel99 Member Posts: 1
    I have mixed feeling about which car to buy. The M35X or the RL. I do not like the interior of the M35x - think the wood looks fake and cannot get the aluminium available in the sport option (why?). The mileage in the M35x I hear is not great. The RL doesn't have the camera (which can be added), but the reliability seems to be not as good although this could have been on the 2005 and fixed in 2006. The big advantage for me with the RL is the Collision Braking Mitigation System which the M35x does not have. I often am not paying enough attention and suddenly have to slam my brakes on because the car in front has stopped. Would love to hear comments about this system - it seems to be a huge plus in MHO.
  • racer_xracer_x Member Posts: 8
    I posted this message on the "RL Problems and Solutions" forum, but it should probably have gone here, so I'm reposting it.

    >>Read the 40,000 long term test of the Acura RL, Car&Driver took it off
    >>it's 10 best list because of all the problems they had with the car,
    >>8 unscheduled dealer visits to fix a host of problems, they were
    >>not happy with this car.


    Consumer Reports has issued their "Top Picks for 2006", in which they select the best models in 10 categories. The Infiniti M35/45 took top honors over the RL in the Luxury Sedan category. The Consumer Reports review of the RL concludes "We expect reliability to be average, according to our latest subscriber survey. [New Car Reliability: Average (3/5)]"

    That's pretty damning for Acura, especially since the TL is the top rated Sedan in the $30k-40k range. However, it certainly appears to reflect and expand on exactly what is shared on these boards, as well as apparently backing up exactly what was experienced by Car & Driver: a host of annoying technical issues experienced by thousands of new RL owners with the newly designed RL.

    Compare that to Consumer Reports' reliability rating for the Infiniti M35/45: "First-year reliability has been outstanding. [New Car Reliability: Much better than average (5/5)]"

    The RL and the M35 are both clearly excellent vehicles, but the data now conclusively shows that the new RL has some serious reliability issues, especially when compared to both Acura's own very highly rated TL, as well as their main competition, the Infiniti M35.

    However, it now seems quite clear that the M35 is the superior vehicle, especially when reliability data is factored in.

    I'm sure Honda/Acura is working hard to bring the car back up to their usual excellent reliability standards, but I can't help but think they simply rushed this one onto the market for some reason. Since I'm dumping my problematic leased Audi A6 2.7T, the main thing I'm looking for in my new vehicle is reliability. The latest CR reliability data has pretty much pushed me from "torn between the two" all the way over to the M35x. Plus I can't believe the RL cabin is only 1.2 cubic feet larger than the TL (99.1 vs 97.9), compared to 120.1 cubic feet with the M35 (sans premium package which alters the rear seats a bit). That boggles my mind.

    - Racer X
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    I test drove the RL last Saturday and absolutely loved the car.For the money I don't think I can go wrong, but I will test drive the M35x in the near future and see how that works out.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    If I recall, I believe that system would be somewhat comparable to Infiniti's "Presafe" system, but the Infiniti system is better as it actually "positions" the passengers for a possible crash.
  • ilasilas Member Posts: 18
    Wow, racer x, you must be on some kind of crusade against the RL, because you keep writing completely baseless and counterfactual statements. Maybe you should actually read the CD long term test at Acurazine.com (it is scanned for all to see there). CD DID NOT SAY they took the RL off of their top 10 list BECAUSE of the problems they had. Totally untrue. Further, they praised the car as well, but you forgot to ignore that one, or the fact that it was the dealer that screwed up and caused some of the trips back to have things fixed right. Read the first paragraph and stop making stuff up. Also, where do you get the "thousands of RL owners" having problems stuff? Right, like their are even thousands of posts you have read about the RL (where?). Well, I have read more posts from people praising their RLs than people trashing them. I also compared the m35x against the RL, and for me the RL blew it away in every respect.

    I do agree that Honda might have rushed the RL in 2005, but I also bet that in five years, the current RL will prove a very reliable car. It is just too early to say definitively whether this will be true, in the same way that one cannot yet say that the M series will be more reliable than the RL over time.
  • drpmddrpmd Member Posts: 1
    I have owned my RL for 14 months now and still love the car. Yes, I do believe that the car was probably overpriced, but as far as driving enjoyment I have not been disappointed. I think in general the car itself looks better both exterior and interior-wise than the M. The only problems I encountered involved XM traffic chip and very minor stuff. XM traffic in socal is fantastic to have. The only thing that disappointed me was the base 17" rims if you want to be picky, where soon I will replace them with 19s.
  • tonymagtonymag Member Posts: 6
    drpmd

    Can't agree with RL being overpriced I paid $43,500 for my fully equipped 2006 RL after contacting four Acura dealers for prices. When I was shopping, I also looked at the Infiniti M35x and Audi A6 3.2. Price for both with options I wanted ran from $52,000 to $53,000. Neither Infiniti nor Audi would come anywhere close to the Acura price. Best they would offer was $2,000 off of the MSRP. Neither could deliver a car with the color and options I wanted.

    Bottom line. I get a car with everything included at $7,500 below the other guys.

    Now tell me again why the Acura price is too high.

    I guess I'll hear that Acura's price is so low because of poor sales. That could be but I live in a large metropolitan area and I see as many RLs on the road as M35x and Audi A6.
  • acronceacronce Member Posts: 1
    I was all set to buy an RL earlier this year when a project at work swamped me. I'm only just now recovering and trying to figure out if I still want the RL.

    I'm definitely leaning towards the RL over the M. My only reservation now is the RL's reliability. Between Consumer Report's "average" reliability rating and Car & Driver's poor reliability experience (8 unscheduled service visits during their "Long-Term Test Review"), I'm spooked enough to delay my decision.

    Of course the CR report and C & D's article were for the 2005 model. Maybe with the RL's second year in the US there's been some improvement?

    Can some more RL owners on this list comment on their reliability experiences?

    Thanks in advance,
    --
    Allen Cronce
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    Can some more RL owners on this list comment on their reliability experiences?

    I've had my 05 RL since Oct 04. Other than a few minor things, I've had no problems with my RL. If I had to buy another car tomorrow, it would be an RL.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    INTELLICHOICE BEST IN CLASS WINNER FOR
    Smart Choice Lowest Depreciation
    Smart Choice Lowest Maintenance
    Smart Choice Lowest Operating
    Smart Choice Lowest Ownership
    Top Winner for Lowest Repair
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    INTELLICHOICE BEST IN CLASS WINNER FOR
    Smart Choice Lowest Operating
    Smart Choice Lowest Repair
  • johnhaydjohnhayd Member Posts: 11
    i've had my rl 2006 w/tech pack x 2 weeks:no problems with anything. no probs with doorhandles (carwash x2), no rattles. xm and xmtraffic work fine (sf ba area). I too waited until I thought the bugs were worked out. also, I believe below market financing ends at end of april. good luck.
  • 6sptl6sptl Member Posts: 27
    Personally I think the interior of the M is hideous compared to the RL. Th infinity M35 x is actually fractionally slower than the RL (the M45 is much faster). The infinity has a small edge in handling which IMO has disappered with the RL tech package whose 18 inch rims improve handling significantly over the "base" RL. The only luxury item the infinity has over the rl is cooled seats every other luxury item that is optional on the M is Standard on the TL. The backup camera, however, is a 300 buck option on the RL. The RL did have some minor teething electrical glitches than have been resolved now. Thus reliability should be as good if not better than infinity, given Acuras much better long term reliability over infinity as a brand. I'm an die hard honda fan thus, I cant deny a little bias. However I think the differences are at best small and cut both ways. Given my long Honda history and the complete satisfaction that I've expirienced with every one I've owned for over 2 decades the M is not even in the running. Personally, the only car I would consider over the RL is an M5 and that would be only because of its overwhelmingly superior performance. The 5 series is seriously ugly and I would not even dream of comparable reliability. Obviously living in the land of snow the M5 is another non starter, superperforming RWD cars are an utter waste in the northwoods of Wisconsin. :cry:
  • blov8rblov8r Member Posts: 567
    I saw several cars with the matte finish and did not like it at all. It looked fake to me - sort of like it was wood grain stamped on. Just a personal opinion.

    More than YOUR personal opinion ... I'm with you on this issue. My M35 is a Sport so I don't have to look at the matte wood grain that to ME (as to you) actually looks phony. While real polished wood isn't the way real wood looks and would be garbage on furniture, in a car I think it looks much better. My wife's Lexus ... case in point. Bart :shades:
  • psychhpsychh Member Posts: 6
    We have had new RL now for three weeks - amazing car and has exceeded our high expectations so far. Purchased the RL after several months of shopping and reading -- the M was a contender, but came in third behind RL and Audi A6. In our area (midwest) infinity had 12 M's on the lot and Acura had only 5 RL's...yet Acura offered a good deal at 42,500...Infinity did bargain, but not that much. For our tastes, the RL is a good buy at 47,500 and a fantastic buy below 44,000...
  • erfanerfan Member Posts: 12
    Can someone compare the RL with a 530xi? I am in the market for one of these.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Try the Luxury Performance Sedans discussion. Or if you'd like, you can go to the main Acura RL page and create a new discussion. You'll see the "Add a Discussion" link on the right just above the discussion list. Feel free to do that.
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    You can purchase a 2006 RL in New Jersey for under $42K and probably closer to $41K. This makes it much less expensive than the M 35X with the same features.

    My lease is up in Spring, 2007 so I'm considering both of these vehicles.
  • vanhalenabevanhalenabe Member Posts: 20
    I'm an owner of a first year Acura MDX. The car is great, but has more than its share of problems. In my personal experience, it seems that Acura has more "teething" problems with first year models. For Acura, it seems better to wait for the 2nd year, "Service Pack" edition.

    According to Edmunds, the 2005 RL (first year model) had 0 recalls and 37 Technical Service Bulletins.

    In comparison, the 2006 M (first year model) had 0 recalls and only 5 Technical Service Bulletins.

    Based on that, and the C&D long term test, I would be hesitant to buy a first year, 2005 model. I'm sure the 2006 model RL is much better.

    I am still in the process of finding a 2006 M. We already had an MDX, and simply didn't want another Acura in the garage. And I like the M's exterior (execept for tail lights) and really like the interior.

    At this price point, everything is subjective. If we all just needed transportation and cars were an appliance, this thread would be "Accord vs. Maxima" or "Accord vs. Camry".

    Both are great cars, IMHO.
  • dunde71dunde71 Member Posts: 33
    The RL does not even have a spare tire just because they come with run flats which are expensive and wear faster. With a run flat you go about 100 miles. If you happen to do long road trips often and have a flat on the highway ...good luck finding a autoshop open during the weekend. A 50k car and would look stupid without a spare. I guess if you do mostly local commute then you are fine. Atleast the m35x has a spare in this respect.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    Unless you have a full size spare in your M, you have about a 75 mile range....it's really a wash between the compact spare and the run flats.
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    Both are great cars. I recently test drove them and here are my impressions:

    RL had a quieter more luxurious ride and gets better gas mileage. Price is much cheaper for a 2006- some left over- with the same amount of tech goodies as the M. Acura has a better reputation for reliability than Infinity. Wood/leather luxury steering wheel is available on the RL. Best navigation system on the market and real time traffic reports.

    M has a sportier feel and handles better. Rear camera is the best I've seen-same one that the $130K 7 series BMW uses."Birds eye" feature on navigation is a neat and unique feature. 2007 came out in Spring so the 2008 model may comeout in Spring, 2008- my time frame for getting a new ride. 2007's will be lower priced. DVD video's may be watched through the navigation system when the car is in park. Rear DVD option with rear passenger screen is available.

    Both cars have AWD,Bluetooth,Homelink, XM, comfy seats, great paint job,good color selection- inside and out. DVD-A surround with good sound system.

    Can't go wrong with either choice. It depends what features are most important to you.

    Warning, one of the interior color options for the M is very controversial: Bourban leather. It's a love it or hate it color. I find it to be hideous, but others may love it. The Acura TL comes in a similar color. It's a very orangy color and I test drove it and found the interior combination of the black,orange, tan and gray not complimenting each other very well.
  • acuratacurat Member Posts: 87
    Recently almost bought a 2006 RL at $40K but balked at the pathetically low trade offer on my 2004 TL non-navi. Strongly considering 2007 TL for touch-screen navi with real-time traffic; sportier, less $$$. Hanging fire for now.

    Took another look at last year's Consumer Reports luxury performance sedan issue and their 2006 Buying guide. The 2006 Infiniti M35x merits an unprecedented 97 points against the 2006 RL's lackluster 76. (TL got 90.)

    Seems to me that consumers on Edmunds.com like RL better (9.7 vs. 9.1) and most folks, like carfan28, conclude that they aren't that different. Subjectively the M strikes me as a little bit unattractive, though not as ugly as the G35 or the BMW 5 series. True Cost to Own is better on the RL. Pricing is trickier on the M because of all the darn options and packages. I hate that--that's why Honda/Acura has gotten 100% of my business for the past several years.

    A 21-point spread--wow. Is RL really a C+ car and M35x an A+? (Then there's the fun and price-performing 2007 TL to consider.) Help me out here!

    :confuse:
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Drive them both back-to-back and decide. They have different flavors. If you don't like either, keep looking. I have an 06 M35x for several reason, one because I fit in it better, a second is I like it better. You may not. The backup camera is sooo habit forming - when I drive a car without one, I feel so naked.
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    Very surprised by Consumer Reports. The 2005 RL had many recalls and since they emphasize reliabilty maybe that's why they gave them the low rating. CR normally loves Acuras. I know the 2006 model was problem free so the March Car CR mag will show the RL as a Top Pick- is my prediction.

    Another benefit of the Acura's is their naviagation systems are "on the fly"- you can input while driving.

    I do like both cars, and I think either is a good pick. Not sure what the 2007 RL's are selling for. I do know that leftover 2006's are still very inexpensive- hovering around $40K in NJ for a non-tech version. Tech version for 2006 is the run flat tires and the Stay in the Lane system. Other version does not have run flats.

    2007 RL has a rear camera and MP3 player port built in on all 3 models:

    There's a non-navagation model without wood trim, a model just like the 2006 regular model, and the fully loaded model with the run flat tires and Stay in the Lane system.
  • acuratacurat Member Posts: 87
    Carfan,

    Thanks for the thoughtful analysis! Of course I agree with your conclusion. (BTW Stay in the Lane is an Infiniti feature--the Acura has Adaptive Cruise Control and Collision-Mitigation Braking System but no lane-departure warning.)

    Here's the update: I could resist no longer and pounced on a 2006 RL Tech/CMBS/PAX at $42,475 + TTL here in L.A. a couple of weeks ago. Missed my sweet-but-squeaky 2004 non-navi TL for all of 5 minutes after trading it in. This dealer went $1100 higher on the trade than "my" dealer and gave up their entire holdback on the RL. Never even drove the Infiniti M as I have issues with their styling and did not like their local dealers back when I owned a sluggish 2000 QX4. The M is difficult to discern from the 4-door G from certain angles. There is no mistaking an RL vs. a TL.

    BTW I have seen only 2 other RLs in those 2 weeks. Exclusivity is a nice thing. Sweeeeet!! :)
  • ocimocim Member Posts: 45
    Exclusivity is a nice thing? Yes, if you have it! I find it hard to believe that anyone would not buy an M simply because it is similar in appearance to another infinity product. Don't all BMW's and Mercedes' look alike? Isn't it better that all the models within a certain luxury brand look similar, rather than making them look like on of their mainstream products. In my opinion, the reason the RL's sales are hurting is because the TL is more attractive, similar in size, and looks less mainstream than the RL, which has a strong resemblance to the Accord. In that regard, it would have been better for the RL to resemble the TL, giving it the similar Acura family look. I can't understand why Honda would have done something like this. Perhaps this helps the already strong Accord sales. Obviously, the RL sales figures are sluggish - as evidenced by the necessity of deep discounts on the RL - something that you do not generally see on a luxury brand. Now, I wouldn't not buy the RL simply because it resembles the Accord - but I definitely would not call it exclusive.

    The consumer reports ratings represent an unbiased evaluation which is independent of price. They subject these cars to many tests - simulating a variety of driving conditions and road conditions. This is quite different from an impression one might get from test driving a vehicle for a couple of hours. In my experience they are fairly accurate in their assessment of all products they test. For example, in 2000 I purchased a new Acura TL, despite the fact that CR rated the Lexus ES300 considerably better. After a while I wished that I made a different decision. The TL was a good car, but not a great car. Everything that I grew not to like about the Acura (not obvious in my initial test drive), was shown to be a weakness by CR in their evaluation. Our 1997 Camry (similar to the Lexus ES 300), on the other hand, turned out to be a fantastic car and overall a lot better than the TL. I had also owned a 1995 Maxima and also found it to be a better can than the TL. Both the Nissan and Toyota brands seem to have a better ride quality. For some reason, Honda products have a high frequency "tink" sounds over pot holes, while the Nissan and Toyota products, have a low frequency "thunk" sound - giving them a much more solid feel.

    According to CR the Infinity M35X has an advantage over the RL in ride, handling, braking, roominess and thus far, reliability. Resale value is also better on the Infinity.

    I recently test drove the M35X and was really impressed. It is exceptionally roomy in the rear seat for a mid size luxury sedan. The ride is smooth and the handling is great. I don't know how they did it, but it's like having a European sedan and a [non-permissible content removed] sedan rolled into one - excellent road feel and creamy ride. The engine is responsive, the braking is sports car like. The quality of interior materials is also impressive in this price range. The whole car is wrapped in leather. All the controls are really easy to use, including the NAV system and the excellent back up camera.

    I think I might be tempted to listen to CR this time.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... BTW I have seen only 2 other RLs in those 2 weeks. Exclusivity is a nice thing. ...

    Exclusive or just plain unpopular?
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    For example, in 2000 I purchased a new Acura TL, despite the fact that CR rated the Lexus ES300 considerably better. After a while I wished that I made a different decision. The TL was a good car, but not a great car. Everything that I grew not to like about the Acura (not obvious in my initial test drive), was shown to be a weakness by CR in their evaluation.

    Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Everything they said would annoy, you probably remembered and started looking out for. You also expected them to annoy you.
    I bet if you had evaluated the cars for yourself you would have had a higher chance of having a different outcome.
    I think you should start buying cars for you and try as hard as possible not to let others influence you. After all it is you who has to drive the car.

    Both the Nissan and Toyota brands seem to have a better ride quality. For some reason, Honda products have a high frequency "tink" sounds over pot holes, while the Nissan and Toyota products, have a low frequency "thunk" sound - giving them a much more solid feel.


    That is because Acura/Honda makes driver's cars. Their cars are made with driving and handling in mind. As such, the ride is not as floaty as you might find in other marques./
    This is not uncommon to anyone who has driven European cars of any make.
    In their older driving culture, the premium is put on the driving experience rather than isolation from the world around you.

    I hope you find a car to like. The M is a great car.
    I would try to avoid CR next time and take your time and test-drive the car several times.
    CR is a poor substitute for proper car testing.

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    By the way, what do you think about the Lexus GS?

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Have you evaluated it in any way?
    What about the Germans?

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    What is your take? Are they out of your price range?
  • ocimocim Member Posts: 45
    Happy New Year readerreader!! Thanks for the psychological evaluation But, I think you may have missed my point. I was simply trying to say that CR is much better equipped to evaluate cars under many conditions than most people could by taking the car on a test drive. You would have to spend a lot of time in a car to evaluate the car in such areas as ride/noise under many road conditions, emergency handling, braking, as well as reliability. I live in Western Pennsylvania (worst roads in the world) so ride is one thing that I think I can reasonably evaluate.

    CR’s mission is also to provide an unbiased report. So, I use them as a guide to narrow down my choices. I actually had some issues with my TL before I saw that the same areas were identified as weaknesses by CR. I tend to be sensitive to rattles, squeaks more than the average guy (at least that is what my wife says). The Toyota’s seem to have fewer problems in these areas. Just as a small example, when I turn from the road onto the curb of my driveway, as the front wheels start to climb onto the curb you can hear the twisting noises on the TL. The Camry, on the other hand, even with over 200K is solid as a tank (until its recent demise in an accident). I do think that Honda products are great. I have a 2004 Honda Pilot and I feel it is the best package under 45K. However, it too exhibits those twisting noises.

    Now, on to your other questions. To date I have test driven the M35x (twice) BMW 530xi, Lexus GS350, Acura RL and just for good measure the Toyota Avalon Limited.

    Here is my impression of them:

    The BMW had good handling and ride. However, the car’s acceleration was not as good as the others and it’s not overly roomy for passengers or cargo.

    The Lexus, much to my surprise, had the worst ride, and it also has cramped quarters and trunk. The engine was quiet and the power was excellent, but the handling was not spectacular. I think the Toyota’s suspension engineers have taken a lot away from ride without gaining much in handling. However, its interior is so much nicer than the rest that it makes you want to ignore everything else.

    The Acura RL had the quietest engine. It was fairly responsive as well. The handling and ride felt better than the Lexus but not as good as the BMW or Infiniti. Again, as it seems to be the norm here, the car felt a little cramped.

    The Toyota Avalon is a lot of car for the money. I would probably purchase it if I was looking for a FWD car. It is very roomy, has high quality materials and it seems to be fairly competent in most areas. Not overly exciting to drive and I am not crazy about the exterior styling. However after purchasing my first AWD (Pilot) a couple of years ago, I realized that is the way to go if you live in Western PA.

    The Infiniti seems to match my needs at this point in my life. Its acceleration, ride, handling, braking, and fit and finish are all very good to excellent. And it is the only car that comes close to the Avalon in size. The only thing that I noticed with the Infiniti (and BMW) is that its engine sounds a little louder than the others here. I hope that this is just the manufacturer’s intention to make the cars sound sporty rather than worse engineering.

    I have not purchased anything yet. It does not seem like Infiniti here wants to deal much on these cars. Any suggestions?
  • uglybearuglybear Member Posts: 26
    I don't know if Infiniti M has the same Bose as FX, but Bose in FX is crap. I own FX45 and had to go to a car stereo shop and replace junk speakers, and and throw away tne stock sub. Costed me $3K extra to get decent sound out of Infiniti. Bose is NOT about great sound. Mark Levinson is. Acura apparently also uses Bose. Look in any car audio mag - you won't find much Bose there. Hey, second from the top Alpine CD/FM + two a/d/g speakers sound better than the entire 8 speakers + sub Bose junk in FX45.
  • dano4dano4 Member Posts: 35
    I owned a 2005 RL for two years and have had a 2007 M35x for 3 months. Following are some reactions:

    --More room in the M. I am 6'3" and I like the higher seating position. For me, the front seats are also more comfortable. There is slightly more room in the back and the trunk is definitely much larger and more useable, although the trunk opening is smaller in the M.

    --The handling on the RL was slightly better. Better directional stability (i.e. the steering is a little "nervous" on the M) and the SH 4WD cannot be beat. The RL is normally more in FWD, while the M is normally more in RWD. Makes a difference and is personal preference. I believe the ride is better on the M, although a little firmer.

    --RL had better mileage. I regularly got 28mpg on the highway vs 23 on the M. This is due to the much lower 5th gear and closer gear ratios in the M. The M has smoother acceleration and better shifting as a result, but the penalty is the gas mileage. Both cars need a six speed or maybe, in the case of the M, the Nissan CVT.

    --The NAV systems are a toss-up. The M's system is faster, has fewer annoying warning screens, and has friendlier views. The RL had the ability to call up a longer list of destinations, complete with phone numbers-really handy for calling a hotel from the road.

    --The quality of the M has been perfect to date. I was really put off by all of the recalls on the 2005RL. It never left me stranded, but dealing with all of the recalls was a real pain. It was not an Acura-like experience. Both the Acura and Infiniti dealers are 50 miles away.

    --Depreciation experience is yet to be determined for the M. My RL dropped 35% in value-trade vs. MSRP-in two years. Much was due to the rebates necessary to move the 2006 models. Not as bad as most American cars, but worse than my 2002 Lexus LS 430.

    --Styling. The RL does strongly resemble a Honda Accord. This was a major mistake in restyling the RL as was shortening the wheelbase by nearly 2 inches. On the other hand, the M is pretty non-descript as well. I am OK with the styling on both and am more interested in the drive and quality.

    --Mechanical. Both engines are works of art and smooth as butter. Same for the transmissions, with a slight edge to the M on upshifts, and a bigger edge to the M on downshifts. More engine sound with the M, which I like. It is closer to a BMW in character, while the RL is more like a cross between a Lexus and a Honda. Why can't American manufacturers build engines like these?

    --Miscellaneous. Like the push button start on the M. Like the back-up camera on the M-now on the 2007 RL. Dealer experience for both has been great. it's really nice to be treated well vs. the low quality at most American car dealerships. A few more standard electronic toys on the RL, none of which mattered to me.

    In summary, these are two great cars and you can't go wrong with either one. Preference should be largely based on the test drive, the price, and the proximity and quality of the dealer.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    --Mechanical. Both engines are works of art and smooth as butter. Same for the transmissions, with a slight edge to the M on upshifts, and a bigger edge to the M on downshifts. More engine sound with the M, which I like. It is closer to a BMW in character, while the RL is more like a cross between a Lexus and a Honda. Why can't American manufacturers build engines like these?

    Actually they can and they do. But most people who purchase in these classes are such dash strokers and badge snobs that they're put off by the American cars since they aren't squishy and posh enough. But GM's Northstar V8 and new 3.8L V6 are smooth. Ford's modular engines are smooth (when used in some applications) and its new 3.5L V6 is said to be smooth. Chrysler's HEMI V8 is smooth as butter and its 3.5L V6 is smooth (when used in the 300, at least it was in the 300M).
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    I rent American cars all the time and one of my latest rentals was the 300M- a piece of crap compared to the M35 and the RL! The seats are like my grandmother's couch, there's no road feel,the inside parts feel like cheap plastic, and these Amercian cars that you refer to are not reliable. Who wants to have their second biggest investment in the shop getting fixed all the time.

    It's a darn shame because in so many other business areas we lead the world. I'm all for supporting American companies, but it's seems that Detroit is incapable of making a great product. Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas and all the Japanese vehicles have a large percentage of their cars made in the US anyway- so we who buy these cars are supporting ourselves as well.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... and these Amercian cars that you refer to are not reliable. ...

    I'd love to see some proof of that. The 300M for one, during its production, was rated as one of the most reliable cars in America (by CR, I believe). Did it leave you stranded when you rented it? Also keep in mind you're (for whatever reason) thinking an older, out-of-production $30K car should have an interior comparable to modern, $40K+ luxury cars. :confuse: I've been in and driven all three cars, and I definitely wouldn't say the 300M is a "piece of crap" compared to the M35 or RL, ESPECIALLY not the RL. Have you taken a look at that boom-box looking center stack of the RL with its hard, cheap plastic? Glass houses and stone throwers don't mix. Outside of electronic gimmickry, the 300M is on par with the RL, despite being older; and don't even mention interior space. :surprise:
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    Thanks for the great review dano4! Very nicely done.
  • carfan28carfan28 Member Posts: 43
    Just test drove the RL and the M35X back to back and took a long look at both.

    RL positives:
    SHAWD- drive system
    On the fly navigation system
    Better fuel economy
    MP3 player is incorporated with the car's audio system
    Quieter Cabin
    Smoother Ride
    Wood steering wheel option
    Run Flat tires option
    Proven good local dealer

    RL Negatives:
    No DVD player for playing movies while car is in park
    Worse resale value
    2005 had many bugs
    Consumer Reports didn't give it a great recommendation
    I see old ladies and old men driving it
    No birdview navigation

    M35X Positives:
    DVD player plays movies while in park
    Better resale value
    2006 Consumer Reports Top Pick
    Men drive the car
    3D Birdsview Navigation
    Much better lease rate

    M35X Negatives:
    Worse fuel economy
    noisier cabin
    bouncier ride
    MP3 Player doesn't interact with the car audio system
    Navigation can only work when car's in park
    No wood steering wheel option available
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    RE the M series and the nav system; you can adjust things via the voice commands while on the move.
This discussion has been closed.