Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
High-End European Luxury Sedans
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
When I spotted this, I thought someone put "Volkswagen" on the trunk. :P What are they thinking?
BMW is disdained for the WhaleTail look, yet, has sold more than ever since it debuted. The I-drive is a disaster both from an ergonomics point of view, and reliability - yet, they are selling more of them than ever AND, MB & Lexus are going to an I-drive of some sort.
Lexus is the fastest growing luxury car in North America - and will likely overtake both MB & BMW combined at some point -not because they're more beautiful, as that would be a real stretch to say, but because they are cheaper, yet more reliable - what Toyota does best. Also, they do what they're supposed to do in spades.
I remember Nickoseal (sp) engines failing at BMW not too long ago, and they survived, yet, had I had one, I'd be furious and never be back. Cadillac is supposedly making a comeback, but I don't know anybody who used to drive a Mercedes, that now owns a Cadillac. I do know some former Lexus owners who do, but mostly it's Lincoln owners who have Cadillacs in their driveways now. I guess they're back from the pathetic cars they were in the 80's and 90's, but will they ever compete with the foreign makes? I doubt it. Lincoln has decided not to try - they can't afford it, plus they have Jaguar and Aston Martin to refer people to.
1. In my circles, MB is still tops. I worked at a fast growing company, where the execs were getting BIG increases in comp each year. My boss was a perfect example; he started with a Honda Civic. When he started making good money, he bought a Lexus. Once he struck it rich, he moved to a Mercedes. The CEO of the company bought a Mercedes. So did the CFO.
2. Smart Money magazine came out with their 2006 rankings; they listed the Lexus GS 300 as the top Luxury Sedan.
I know these comments are contradictory; I'm not expressing an opinion - just some points....
The wheel arches are terrible and unnecessary. The wheels themselves are available at the Lexus store for the LS400 from 1997 - 2000.
If this the 'bet your company flagship', these folks are in deep sneakers. It's the worst looking car I've seen since the new BMW 7 a few years ago.
No style, no sense of unity, no integrated stance like the MB S of the 'old days'. This is one porker.
Just one person's view ....
gb
I can't stand the new BMWs coming from the previous ones.
MB is definitely still tops in prestige, among the mainstream luxury brands. But what happens as people aquire more money depends on their personal wants, including how much the prestige factor matters to them. I went to a Microsoft meeting back in 1995 and the top guys like Ballmer and Gates had indivdually labelled, reserved spaces at the building it was at. Those spaces had 3 LS400s in a row...and no other brand. It is well known that Gates has had LS cars for awhile (among others), and I think some of the other execs followed his lead. Even back then, Ballmer was worth 10 figures.
Incidentally, this mornings WSJ had a big article beginning on page one of the second section on Jaguar's future plans. Seems they are still working on a strategy. Their immediate concern is to cut costs without hurting the value proposition. IMHO they seem to have a good line up, priced right, with some interesting variants (the R models, the AWD X type "Estate Wagon, etc.). Problem is the X Type is going away and nothing is selling. I think Jags marketing is invisible and/or inept.
I talked with an MD today in his mid 60's who has owned them all: an S Series with the V12, the 911 C4 (awd), a raft of Bimmers, etc. You would think that he would be ready to settle into an XJ8 SuperV8. Nope, He has his eye on the Maserati coupe that is getting good reviews.
No question in my mind, the marketing (or lack thereof) is a big part of the problem at Jaguar. I think they have a pretty good and consistent lineup as well. But nobody knows it, and the ads they do run, are stiff and ethereal. Somebody needs to tell the story about how reliable they are now, and how much engineering is in them. Because, people still think they have lucas electronics and stall at will and leak at every joint like they used to.
What Jaguar needs is two platforms. One for the S-Type, XJ and XK. This is pretty much a done done once the S-Type is redesigned because the XJ and new XK already share the same platform.
Then, and I know this won't happen, Jaguar needs a new small rwd platform that could support a real rwd sports sedan (not the lame awd X-Type) and that stunning F-Type sports car they showed a few years ago. Mercedes and BMW do the same thing with the C/CLK/SLK and 3-Series/Z4 respectively. Ford isn't going to or doesn't have the money for this to happen.
Jaguar is taking the exclusive, low-volume approach which may work, but they need the next S-Type to be a big hit because the XJ and XK can't save Jaguar alone.
M
From a business and marketing standpoint what would you think of a merger with Land Rover (I think someone even already suggested this.)? They already share some technology, same sort of customer and marketing focus. The combined company would need 50% less staff support types (Regional Managers, Trainers, etc.).
I think something like that is exactly what Ford should do. These three are all British and nich makers so a leaner organization is exactly what they need, especially in field operations. As far as their products go, as they are right now they don't step on each other toes and it should stay that way. Land Rover doesn't need to develop a car and Jaguar should stick to cars. If Jaguar has to do a non-car product it should be a "crossover" not a true ruff-n-tumble SUV like a Land Rover. A Jaguar crossover should be a last-resort thing. What Jaguar needs a entry-level sports sedan that carries the brand's heritage with a BMW-grade rwd chassis. I know Ford and Jaguar are capable of this is the $$$ was there.
I've always said that either Ford or VW has the best collection of high-end brands.
Imagine a V12 Land Rover and a XJ12, using one of Aston-Martin's V12s! The recent gas crisis may kill those products though, but a V12 Land Rover would truly put the lights out on any other luxury SUV.
M
In the Chicago area I've heard nothing but good things about Fletcher Jones, Orland Park, Naperville, Luarel, and Motor Werks.
I'd ask around on the "Prices Paid" board or the Mercedes specific topics to see how the after-sale service shapes up for various Chicagoland MB dealers.
M
Appreciate the insights. You've had some good posts throughout - I've dug into some of them. Haven't bought an MB yet - I've been Volvo brand loyal for a while. But... my 2004 S60 may soon get replaced with a 2006 C-series.
Motor Werks is probably the 2nd or 3rd closest to me. MB of Arlington Heights is the closest (formerly Mark Motors).
I'll follow your suggestion.
Regards,
dfc3
M
The Motor Werks also has a new store in Hoffman Estates on Higgins right after Higgins crosses over Golf Road.
Let us know what you do.
M
I absolutely agree and have always said that to a couple friends that always drool over the Phaeton....
I'm not surprised. They don't wany anyone to take over VW and end their partnership with them. That would be a huge blow to Porsche considering how the Cayenne pretty much got them through the lean times before the new 911 and Boxster arrived on the scene.
Besides Porsche and VW have been linked by blood, if not officially, for years.
M
Actually, they are getting around $180K for a Ford... Ford GT
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
But "how many cars" X $180k are they getting?..... Weren't they only making something like 20 of them?
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Well, yeah, in about the same numbers as the Phaeton has been sold! But that's by design in Ford's case.
Understanding "W" Engines
The study of international relations (see the recent book about the Pentagon's new mental map of the world) teaches us that that those that trade together have growing, stable relationships. Whats with these unconnected companies like Peugeot, Honda, Lotus (which is really a consultancy), and Toyota? Don't they play well with others?
Let me see if I can update it.
MG-Rover went belly up and then the Chinese divided up the scraps. It isn't clear as to what will happen with the remains yet.
Of course we've all read about Porsche buying into VW, but it wasn't known to most (me either until recently) that Porsche already owned 5 percent of VW.
Maserati is no longer under the full control of Ferrari, instead they have been folded back in to the Fiat Group.
Of course we all remember reading the debacle about DCX and them selling off their shares in Hyundai.
Peugeot SA is a huge company, one of the largest in Europe, surprising considering how ugly (IMO) French cars tend to be.
Yes, Honda, Toyota, Lotus, Porsche continue to go it alone.......
M
M
Panoz and Saleen aren't shown in that picture.
M
VW is hurting badly these days, even in Germany. I think that it would take the kind of financial muscle that Toyota has to turn VW back into what it once was.
IMO the Panamera sedan (with coupe and cabrio versions) and an entry level roadster are so much more logical for Porsche's future.
The easiest time to overextend yourself is when things look really good financially.
I know this from personal experience!
This isn't like the merger of Chrysler and Daimler... If VW goes in the crapper, Porsche just writes off the investment... I didn't see anything that requires them to make a continuing investment in the company, or absorb any of VW's losses (other than what would be reflected in a lower stock price).
Much ado about nothing, IMO
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
M
IMO (and that of many others) the choice by Porsche directors to invest in VW does not represent wise use of Porsche's capital reserves.
A company is never more than one or two bad decisions away from trouble. Porsche has a great product line and reputation now! I would hate to see them slip back to the brink.