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Toyota Prius MPG-Real World Numbers

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Comments

  • texvegastexvegas Member Posts: 17
    2004 Prius....54.6 average with AC in 90 degree weather. Total average in summer and upstate NY winters is 48.9 mpg.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    marjie...

    I have a feeling that I may know what causes your low fuel economy. You wrote...

    I have had the car for less than two months and have put on 1600 miles to date.
    Any information will be greatly appreciated.


    In 60 days this is about 30 mi per day on average. Can I guess that you take a few short trips each day locally?

    If so, this is the single worst factor in destroying fuel economy. No one will ever tell you that but every vehicle on the road, hybrids included, suffer from this characteristic of internal combustion engines. Your Prius and all other hybrids are still essentially ICE's. Short trips are death on fuel economy. The second worst factor is bad weather.

    As a comparison if you were in a normal non-hybrid 4c ICE vehicle such as a Camry, taking the same short trips, your fuel economy would likely be in the 22 mpg range ( CR estimates ).

    How would you describe your typical 30 mi drive each day
    No of trips / day....
    Distance / trip.....
    Speed............
    % Hwy driving....
    % City driving.....
    weather, temperature.....
    terrain ( flat, hilly? )...
    No. of passengers? Cargo?....
    Can you provide this easily?

    These are all the factors that the EPA fails to mention other than the disclaimer 'Your mileage may vary'.

    Mine for example is:
    150 mi daily commute
    85% Hwy @ 60 mph
    15% City @ 40 mph
    flat terrain
    good weather
    one passenger, no cargo
    51 mpg over the last 15,000 mi.
  • eth2oskieth2oski Member Posts: 4
    For the first seven tanks overall I've gotten 48.4 MPG :) - It's still trending up as I modify my driving habits. I drive about 120 miles/day and I'm pretty much going 66 MPH on a generally flat trip. I buck the wind most afternoons. The first two tanks not commuting were much faster at about 74 MPH.

    Great Forum.
  • shammshamm Member Posts: 10
    A few weeks ago I posted a message that I was getting 38mpg with my Prius. I received some feedback, I also spoke with the sales guy. I filled the tank and followed the suggestions. At the next fill up I can report that the display on the dash showed 50mpg, we actually got 45mpg.
    I'm glad to get 45! I attribute this to keeping the speed below 40mph as much as possible. I did not change my other driving habits for this experiment.
    Unfortunately, my drive to work has about 4 blocks at 30mph, 10 blocks at 40mph and the rest is county road at 55mph (some days 65) for a total of about 13 miles. In this area, if the speed limit is 40, EVERYONE goes 45 (or more). Thus driving the Prius below 40 will eventually cause an accident and is unacceptable.
    I'll try some more experiments and post again later.

    I agree, this is a great forum!
  • bamobamo Member Posts: 1
    Hey,

    I own a 2003 and am getting 51 MPG. From what I have experienced with this type of car you have to drive it a little differently that a normal car, if you want to maximize the MPG. From a complete stop, ease into it, and whenever you have a downhill, let off the gas. Let the screen guide you. If you tweek little things about your driving, you will be getting 50-55 in no time.
  • shammshamm Member Posts: 10
    Thanks Bamo for the advise. Unfortunately, I already ease it out on the green light and allow the car to regenerate power as I approach a stop. (I have a Celica too, that's my jack-rabbit starts car!)
    From all I've heard, I'm doing everything right and I'm getting 45mpg - at best! I'm not carrying heavy loads, I ease up to speed at the starts and let the motor generate power as I approach a stop. I keep the speed at the speed limit (when I feel safe in doing so). I have the tires at the inflation numbers on the chassis (I've heard to increase the pressure to 42front/40rear but I'm reluctant to do that - it's not a recommended Toyota practice and I'm trying to keep it "official".)
    Pretty soon the sales guy, my wife and I are going for a drive. The sales guy says he can show us a few things that might help...
    My plan: Zero the trip counter and let the sales guy drive. I want to see him get over 50mpg on that guage. Then my wife and I will drive and let him critique our style.
    I'll post again when I have more news.
  • montymanmontyman Member Posts: 1
    I have been driving my 2001 Prius for over a month now. Let me share what I've noticed about the MPG:

    1. This is a Texas summer, so sometimes I drive with a/c and sometimes without. I notice a big difference in the MPG; I get about 52 without the a/c and 45 with it turned on. I have seen in this thread that others have noticed a 5 mpg difference, but have read elsewhere on the Internet that it is negligible. For me, the difference has been very noticeable.

    2. My tires were inflated to a pressure between 25 and 30 psi when I bought the car. I increased them all to 42psi and I noticed a slight mpg improvement and slightly better handling.

    3. You do not have to drive less than 40mph to get these excellent mileage numbers! Most of my trip to work and back home is on a highway, and I drive around 63 to 65 mph. My mileage is slightly higher in town, but the difference is very little.

    4. My rough estimates indicate that the car's computer is close to accurate on the actual mpg.

    My automotive budget is lower than for most people; in fact, the 5-year-old Prius is probably the newest car I've ever bought. The inside space feels midsize, more than enough space for my family of four. This is a cool car!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Congrats on the car, and welcome to the cadre of proud Hybrid owners.

    How many miles are on your Prius?
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    I too have always read it was a negligible, as driving with the windows down also creates air drag that drives the MPG down as well.....

    Does anyone remember reading any studies on the mileage effects of AC :confuse:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://avt.inel.gov/hev.html

    This is a very interesting page filled with PDFs which indicate good performance in regard to HEV battery life.

    See this one in particular:

    http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/karner.pdf

    One of those PDFs, maybe the last one, has a few statements about the effect of A/C on the Priuses. Seems like it took a substantial hit.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Thanks for the fantastic information & links! :)

    I see there has been a good improvement from Generation 1 to Generation 2 Prius in MPG, and that the AC will take about 10 MPG away from you....pretty cheap price not to melt, imo. ;)
  • whalenwhalen Member Posts: 1
    I bought my '05 in October. Unfortunately my commute is short (2 miles) I do drive a bit through the average day. From Oct. '05 till Aug. '06 I drove about 9500 miles. Filled up 23 times and averaged 42.3 MPG. Winter seemed worst. This summer was hot so lots of AC. Have changed my driving a bit but I didn't buy the thing 'cause I need a hobby. I drive it. I "built" and ordered the car on the web. Got emails and calls from 2 local dealerships. Choose one, Airport Toyota in Knoxville and paid MSRP. No muss no fuss. I've got everything you could get on the car when I bought it. Love the bluetooth. Would like to study the appropriate voice for the nav software. I say chinese food it says, "police station ahead on the right." They have done all oil changes and tire rotation. They pick up and deliver free and for simple stuff like this have been very reasonably priced (as in I couldn't have done it cheaper when you factor in taking somewhere and sitting with it). They picked up on recalls of steering part and ordered it. They didn't tell me though till the part came in. Considering one warning was you could loose ALL control they might have told me. I didn't buy it JUST for mileage but for lower emissions TOO. So if you know that's a lie don't tell me.

    Mike
    Knoxville, TN
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So if you know that's a lie don't tell me

    Good post and welcome to the Forum. We would never accuse you of prevarication on this forum. We all get along. Keep us posted on your Prius.
  • ck90211ck90211 Member Posts: 159
    I just picked up 07 4 days ago, and decided to top it off with gas being cheap ($ 2.65/gallon, I am in SoCal). 200 miles, jammed 5 gallons in. I suspect the full tank from dealer was not really full. So this would be the first real tank (that's why I topped it off). According to Consumption Screen I averaged 46 mpg.

    In a few days I am going to pump up the tires with Nitrogen, and I may try to jerry-rig a EV switch, and hopefully I can get the mileage to 50+ consistently. Without it (EV) the engine goes on too often, even with battery full and car going slowly.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Such a switch will void your entire warranty, you know that, right :confuse:

    The engine, computer controlled, making thousands of calculations per second, turns the ICE on exactly when, and runs it just as long, as it should.

    Certainly it is your car, and you can do with it as you wish, but I urge you to consider all the ramifications.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I urge you to consider all the ramifications.

    Good advice. Dealers are always looking for ways to get out of warranty repairs. Don't give them ammunition. Be happy with your 46 MPG. That is very good. I would imagine you are using the AC and it will require the engine to run more also.
  • shammshamm Member Posts: 10
    Hey Newbie!
    I like the idea of a switch too, but the others are right, connect a switch = void the warranty!
    And I bet Toyota is not going to give you a switch just because you ask for one. They THINK their computer program is smart enough to adapt to the speed being driven. Unfortunately, I think they are wrong, their on-board computer program is good, but it could be improved a lot! The engine runs entirely too much for me! I have noticed many times that the engine is running on a flat road with the battery mostly charged and the speed below 40. The motor should be maintaining the speed and the battery allowed to power it. But instead, the engine starts...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    There are a LOT of Prius owners who have installed the EV mode switch kit.

    And I doubt any lawsuit over the switch being installed would result in Toyota winning, because the EV mode switch is

    STANDARD EQUIPMENT FOR ALL PRIUSES EXCEPT NORTH AMERICAN MODELS.

    This factory option is currently not available for buyers in North America although the programming for it is still included in the computers which control the hybrid system. This kit allows you (in just a few minutes) to activate the electric feature of your Prius and drive for short distances. The software already present in the car will automatically restart the engine when the battery needs to be recharged or if you need to accelerate quickly. The electric only feature can be turned on and used up to a speed of around 34 mph at which time it will automatically turn off and the car will operate as usual.

    So my guess is that it would NOT void the warranty if challenged, because Toyota thinks the rest of the world is "smart enough" to use the EV mode button but we dumb North Americans are not? Puh-Leeze.....
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Larry,

    The simple solution would be for you to present, here, a letter, or executive name, from Toyota saying what you have above. :P

    There won't be a lawsuit, and it doesn't concern dealers, for they are more than happy to perform warranty repairs. They account for a substantial portion of any dealers bottom line profits. It matters nothing what Toyota does in other countries, except to you, evidently. Toyota will just deny to pay any dealer because of the switch effecting....God only knows.

    Maybe you could put as much effort into finding out why that switch isn't provided in the United States. Something tells me it has nothing to do with judgments about the intelligence of the driving public here, and more to do with a technical need. ;)
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    .. Curley and Moe,

    What does it matter? 4 wheel disc in Europe . EV mode is built into software, just disabled. Ever seem multi-iuser licenses in software, whereby a key disables features not offered or features you don't pay for? Nav not offered in Canada, but DRLs have always been required.

    Business, marketing and requirements decision. Doesn't always make sense and doesn't have to do with intelligence or technical needs.

    Also it you look back through this thread and other Prius threads there are many hacks and add-ons available for the Prius. The hacks are not intrusive and not permanent. Therefore, they can be removed without evidence. Without evidence the car owner can not be proven guilty. Therefore no puntititve or compensatory damages.

    LOL,

    MidCow
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    As far as the topic, real-world MPG numbers, My guess is that someone who does a lot of low-speed 30 MPH and below driving should get the EV mode switch installed to help better utilize the battery and thus increase their MPG.

    The software already knows how to handle it, therefore it cannot damage the system.

    Go for it modders !!! :shades:
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    So let me see if I understand. You want to take Toyota to court because you installed an EV switch to save, what, $500 on gas over the term of the warranty? No wonder lawyers are so rich!

    Installing the switch doesn't sound very smart to me.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    ROFL!

    So, it is always okay to lie, especially when for monetary gain :confuse:

    I gotta go lay down...........
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    No, I never said anything about wanting to make a lawyer rich at all.

    What I said is that "toyota really has no grounds to deny a warranty claim for someone who installs an EV mode switch if the HSD software is already CODED FOR USE WITH an EV mode button and they just "left it off" the North American models."

    Hundreds of Pruis owners have done this mod. It's not a big deal.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "What I said is that "toyota really has no grounds to deny a warranty claim for someone who installs an EV mode switch if the HSD software is already CODED FOR USE WITH an EV mode button and they just "left it off" the North American models."

    Hundreds of Pruis owners have done this mod. It's not a big deal."

    Toyota provided a warranty book for your US MODEL Prius. The only things they are legally required to honor are those things specifically covered.

    1. If you modify your vehicle you will probably void the warranty. If this language isn't in the fine print of the warranty, then Toyota is an idiot company. The first time you showed up with a bad battery, or possibly any problem, they could legitimately deny you coverage. Auto makers have been covering (and denying) warranty repars for a long time. It wouldn't be much of a court fight. 1) Did the owner modify the vehicle? [yes] 2) Does the warranty prohibit this? [Yes] 3) Was a copy of the warranty provided with the vehicle? [Yes] Case dismissed, with prejudice.

    2. You do not know if the US version has the EV modules in the software. It may well have a completely different version, without EV. Since there is no factory EV switch, I would be shocked if Toyota left in this orphan computer code.

    Here are some exerpts about the UK EV Mode:

    "EV Mode EV mode is apparently not available in the US, for reasons I suspect have something to do with product liability. As evidence, the following quotes are from the UK version of the Prius Owner's manual.

    * 'In the "EV" drive mode your vehicle runs like an electric vehicle, only using the electric motor....'

    # 'CAUTION The driver should pay full attention around the vehicle especially when it is driven by the electric motor (with the gasoline engine stopped). People in the immediate area might misjudge the hybrid vehicle movement based on the absence of the regular engine noise.' Not only in bold, but inside a black border!

    # 'In the following conditions, the "EV" drive may be automatically cancelled....

    # The hybrid vehicle battery assembly charging level is 2 or lower. The vehicle speed exceeds about 45 kph (28 mph). The accelerator is depressed strongly or on the slopes.' [The EV range] usually ranges from several hundred metres to 2 km (about 1.2 miles or less) ....'

    # '... frequent use of the "EV" drive mode may worsen fuel economy.'


    http://tinyurl.com/my3en
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    See my response at the "Prius Modifications" board.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    Perhaps I should clarify my comments. If you install an EV switch, whether aftermarket or a Toyota one purchased from Japan or Europe, you have voided the terms of the warranty. This is reportedly Toyota's position.

    IF you have problems (which I doubt - it's a Toyota for heavens sake!), you WILL have to take them to court if you want warranty coverage. So you WILL be supporting lawyers! Good luck on this one. Toyota is a billion $ company, they can afford the best lawyers. Usually they would win. Personally, I couldn't even afford the court costs (which you would be "awarded" if you lost)!

    According to reports I've read, you will not save fuel, you may end up using more, as there are losses in the conversion of fuel to battery charge (20-40% losses). The only benefit I see is a little convenience. If you just want to move the car a short distance using electric only, use very little throttle. It will usually stay in electric mode for up to 30 sec. or so. Unless the battery is down a bit on charge.

    The software module is in the North American cars. If it wasn't the switch wouldn't work. Even with the switch activated, the car will still engage the ICE when necessary. It just does it later than normal.

    The Prius, with or without the EV switch, is a -gasoline- powered car. All power comes from fuel burned in the ICE.

    Now you -can- do a "plug in conversion", where they add a lot more battery and a charger. In this case you would obviously void the warranty, but you could drive perhaps 10 mi on battery power only (I haven't checked lately on their progress - check http://www.calcars.org/ for info on this project).

    Feel free to do what you like. Lots of folks have added the switch. Some remove them before letting the dealer see the car, some do not. Just don't be in denial of the consequences.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    ?? Your post didn't make sense. You enable a feature already there. You did not make a modifiation. Because the external switch can be removed and the systems is the same. No modifcation exists? Not a lie???

    Is it a lie because a stupid, incompetent driver causes a wreck? Well yes, the liability is on the driver not the car.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S. - Don't use your lawn mower to trim the top of your hedge.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Pthstar,

    FUD "The sky is falling! The sky is falling" -- Chicken Little

    Don't believe every rumor you read or hear,

    MidCow
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Your post didn't make sense. You enable a feature already there. You did not make a modifiation. "

    MidCow, you ususally get the point faster. The EV switch is not approved for the US model Prius.

    Toyota does not allow EV switches in the US version, and installing one is putting a non-Toyota-approved hardware modification on the vehicle. This voids the warranty, and opens the possibility that Toyota may not honor parts or all of the warranty if you have any trouble with the vehicle. The same thing is true if one tries to "re-flash" the CPU chip.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Okay her is the disconnect " ...hardware modification ..."

    Hardware modification is not usually reversable, nor is a firmware mofication, e.g. flash.

    The EV external switch is not really a hardware modifiation, but a software hack. ... okay, find the same software hack that enables the software feature...

    probably up down down up rigth right left on the fuel display screen :P . That is not a hardware modification. Just wait until the hack is know then you would agree , not a hardware modification.

    Either find a smart Prius owner out there or wait until they make a mnaul shift Prius and I enable the EV mode.

    LOL,

    MidCow
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The EV external switch is not really a hardware modifiation, but a software hack. ... okay, find the same software hack that enables the software feature..."

    MidCow, if you can enable the sofware without a switch, then you are correct. However my understanding is that the owner is installing a hardware switch somewhere in the car. That is a hardware modification, regardless of what the switch does. They are also running wires from the switch to the CPU; those wires are not "virtual wires", they are hardware.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Have we gone over, or does anyone know for sure, why Toyota provides such a switch in other parts of the world, and not here :confuse:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Let's talk about MPG real-world numbers please.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Let's talk about MPG real-world numbers please."

    They got into this because some people think the EV switch would improve MPG...
  • templeton3templeton3 Member Posts: 69
    Bought an 07 Prius, drove it for one week, 461 miles so far and 51.6 MPG. Still have a quarter tank left. Great Car.
  • priusman2007priusman2007 Member Posts: 4
    Me too! Bought an O7 Prius on 10/7, have driven 275 miles, some of which was mountain driving, and still have more than a half a tank. Average including the mountainous driving is around 44mpg. In my old Tahoe that would have been about 100 bucks worth of regular gas and it would be empty and needing another 100 bucks to refill. What a great car. :shades:
  • cobra9cobra9 Member Posts: 4
    First tank is ~51, mostly freeway. :)
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Congrats!! :)
  • billd6billd6 Member Posts: 3
    I wish I could say my computer and measured numbers were close, but I just measured 37 mpg when the screen said 48. Average driving temp in the 60s. Car is three weeks old. Not happy. I noticed that my total miles (372 when I filled up from near empty) weren't anywhere near the range I was expecting for a full tank. I thought there might be a couple of gallons of reserve that don't show on the gauge, but I ended up putting 10.1 gallons in, yielding the 37 mpg figure. However the computer gets its number, it's way off and I'm starting to feel more than a little screwed. :mad: I can get this FE from a much cheaper car. I like the car otherwise.
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    You can't rely on computations done on one tank. The fuel tank bladder will vary the amount of fuel you can put in to make it appear full. The car estimates mileage by watching how much fuel it injects into the engine vs the distance travelled. All reports I've read on three forums have indicated it is better than 5% accuracy (except yours). Others have gotten a discrepancy like yours on one tank. They all reported later that it was probably due to the bladder fill issue.

    Note that others have reported the ability to put in as much as 12 gal. when empty and as little as 5 gal. It depends on the state of the fuel tank bladder and the fuel pump shutoff as well as the seal around the fuel pump nossle when inserted into the filler tube.

    I suspect you will get much better results in subsequent fills. Please keep us up to date on your results.

    BTW, short trips will kill your mileage. The car uses a lot more fuel for the first 5 mi. of driving as it has to warm up.
  • cheryl06priuscheryl06prius Member Posts: 50
    For what its worth here are the stats for my '06 Prius:

    For the past 6871 miles my average mpg is 57, the trip computer varies between plus or minus 2mpg from my manual calculation. The bladder feature complicates filling it to the same level on each fill up without risking a spill.

    My situation is such that I do much driving in PA, gas there averages 30-35 cents less per gallon than in Western NY(Buffalo,Rochester), so being the fuel miser I am, often find myself filling the tank with only 300-400 miles on the trip. I loose out on the 600+ miles per tank but i'm not complaining.
  • billd6billd6 Member Posts: 3
    I certainly will post an update, and thanks very much for your reply. I want to love this car.
  • ck90211ck90211 Member Posts: 159
    For 07 Base Prius, first tank, 46 mpg, second tank, 49, now averaging about 49-50. My driving is split, 50% short drives (5-10 minutes), other 50% Los Angeles freeways. Computer calculation is pretty accurate. Only complaint so far is the fuel cell, which stops fuel pump too quickly. I think I can still put another gallon in when fuel pump stops. So unless I do that, MPG calculation is not too accurate.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It may very well be that you have the well-known bladder effect as many Prius' do.

    Allow the bladder to be broken-in more not to mention the rest of the vehicle and you should find 45-50 mpg depending on your trip lengths ( huge effect on FE ).
  • rleesmith18rleesmith18 Member Posts: 1
    I wonder if anyone can give my an overview of how to approach 60 mpg in City driving. i can't get anywhere near that! Generally my in city driving is through streets with lots of lights and stop signs, and typical trips are probably on the order of 10 miles. On the highway we do great (50 + mpg), but in the city much worse. What happened to the in city improvement over highway. What can I do to get better in city mileage? rleesmith18@yahoo.com
  • bakaronibakaroni Member Posts: 10
    I test drove a slightly used Prius yesterday. 4 miles of city streets at about 40mph, 3-4 lights and a 1.5 mile stretch of highway. The car's computer said I got only 35.6 mpg for that entire trip. I'd have got something similar on my 5-speed VW Passat given that I drive very conservatively and usually get higher mileage than the standards on any car. So I was very disappointed, particularly with the mileage on city streets. With that kind of mileage it doesn't make any sense for me to replace my Passat with the Prius. Is it possible that the battery wasn't charged up, so the car didn't use battery power on low speeds as much as it would otherwise have?
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    From what I have read in these forums, it is entirely possible.

    Also, MPG computation, for that short of drive, and that new of a car, wouldn't really be something you should put much stock in. ;)
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Member Posts: 1,015
    It wasn't the battery. The engine was cold. The Prius must warm up the engine and cat. converter as its' primary mission is low emissions, and those can't be had with the engine and cat cold. So for the first 5 miles or first 10 min. or so of operation you can expect about 30 MPG as reported by lots of owners on forums. Once warm the mileage will increase. Not to the 60 MPG indicated by the EPA test methods, however, but to perhaps 45 to 50 MPG. Those who learn how to drive the car can get higher - perhaps 50 - 55 MPG, more if conditions are right for things like pulse and glide.

    The Prius will beat your Passat mileage wise and will emit much fewer emissions doing it.

    The Prius doesn't use the battery power much in moving the car in "normal driving" to get much of its' mileage improvement. It uses the battery mostly to recover the energy lost when braking, and to allow it to seamlessly shut down the engine at lights and stop signs and then get going again, only starting the engine once it is moving. That way it doesn't use the ICE (internal combustion engine) in inefficient "start moving" operation. Also, use of the air conditioner or heater will lower mileage as increased use of the ICE will be required. With most cars you don't notice this, but the Prius really shows you how much energy those kinds of things require because it is otherwise so efficient.

    The main reason you don't want to use the battery power for major motive power is it's so inefficient to charge it back up - 50% has been quoted on the forums. This is a further 50% loss on top of the loss of the ICE converting the fuel into usable energy. So most of the battery charging is done with regenerative braking. Unless you stomp hard on the brakes, the braking you feel down to about 7 MPH is the regenerative braking, not "friction braking". The car does use the motor generators (MG1 and MG2) to help move the car, but it uses the two of them to convert the rotating energy to electrical energy and back only when it's efficient or necessary. For example, there is no reverse gear. The system uses MG2 to propel the car in reverse. It uses MG1 to generate power from the ICE to run MG2 if you back up for more than a few seconds. Yes, it does use battery power to get going from a stop. And it uses some from time to time to accelerate. It may even use it to propel the car when going below about 38 MPH if the battery state of charge is deemed high enough. It tries to keep the state of charge between 30% and 70%. It will not let it get below 20% or above 80%, to protect the battery.

    It really is an amazing car, but it can't perform miracles. All power used comes from gasoline. It just uses it more efficiently than any other vehicle.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As Pathstar noted the first thing you must do is warm up the engine. NOTE: Every one of the EPA's tests on all vehicles are done on engines that are fully warmed up.

    One important point is that you have to define what you consider to be 'City' driving. There are at least 6 types of 'city' driving that I can imagine immediately:
    .. crawling out of Manhattan in rush hour at 15 mph; ( easy to get 60 mpg )
    .. stuck on the freeways of LA or the Chicago Loop or the DC Beltway; ( easy to get 60 mpg )
    .. rolling through a typical congested suburban mall area during the Holidays; ( easy to get 60 mpg )
    .. cruising through a residential neighborhood on a Sunday looking at houses; ( easy to get 60 mpg )
    .. speed-limited residential thoroughfares ( easy to get 60 mpg )
    .. going from stop light to stop sign to stop light on your way home in your neighborhood ( very hard to achieve 60 mpg );

    The common thread in all of the above is the ability, in your personal city driving, to keep rolling at a slow steady speed ( under 40 mph ) with a fully warmed up engine.

    On my 75 mile trip home there is one stretch of 10 miles through a residential area where the speed limit is enforced to 'under 40 mph'. During that stretch of about 10 min I achieve 65-75 mpg every night. For the last 4-5 min of my trip each night I 'glide' much of the way through the local streets achieving well over 80 mpg.

    A) Fully warmed up engine
    B) slow steady speed under 40 mph
    c) little or no pressure on the gas pedal
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