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Comments
Which package did you get on your '06?
Thanks.
Have you checked the tires, oil, and filter lately?
JOHN
Great room, I am 6 ft. 5 in, and over 300 pounds and fit easily in vehicle. Test drove, Honda Accord hybrid 05, Honda civic 06 hybrid, Honda Accord 4 and 6 cylinder, Camry V-6 and 4, Matrix, and Avalon. Fit the best in the Prius because all the other vehicles hit my leg with the center console.
Mileage is outstanding but then again I have been driving a Chevy 1500HD getting about 12-14 miles a gallon.
Did that $28,000 include taxes, title and registration? Those extras are never on the manufacturer's MSRP sticker, but they must still be paid to your state and local governments.
good day to you sir.
MIKE
prius owners Do you get this negative vib?Happy Driving
MIKE
I no longer drive my truck to and from work so I am very happy going from 15 mpg to 45mpg. I am saving $150 per month on gas!
My milleage has recently taken a hit due to a) winter gas, and b) had the Engine ECU Recall done at the beginning of the month, but the average is starting to creep back up to what I normally see.
All in all I'm very pleased with the car and it's MPG. If I were to drive a more conservatively, I could probably get even better milleage...
So why can't I get the MPG you're getting? Is there a warmup period for brand new cars? Shouls I warmup my car in the driveway before hitting the road? Will I ever be able to drive in real world conditions and get the listed MPG? or will I have to annoy everyone on the road by accelerating out of a red light to 30 mph in no less than 30 seconds? Anyone in the Pasadena, CA area want to show me how to drive this car to work and get the 61 I was promised?
Nobody promised you a particular FE just as nobody promised you a given FE in regards to EPA estimates in your last car or car before that That is if you have ever owned a car before! There are a number of FE increasing techniques but if you were to drive your car after a few more miles of break in, after it is properly setup, in similar temps, and on the same exact driving schedule as that used in the EPA’s FTP75 city test, you should receive 60 mpg +/- ~ 2 mpg. I doubt your East LA commute matches anything near the EPA’s city cycle but at least you have a partial explanation Coasting into stops is not the answer as far as maximizing your Prius II’s FE. You want to learn, practice, and use the technique called Glide in that one situation. There are many other techniques even more advanced that may help but do not expect miracles unless you are willing to change your driving habits or drive an exacting commute similar to that of the EPA’s FTP75. Fat chance of that in East LA. I have to assume?
I wish I lived in your locale as a short driving clinic will certainly improve upon what you are receiving to date. If you are ever in the Chicago area with or without your Prius II, I would be glad to help. Anyone live in the Pasadena area that can help Erica out?
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
--Nope. That'll make your MPG worse. Why have the engine burning gas when parked (0 MPG), when you can have the engine burning that same gas while moving down the road (non-zero MPG)? Sitting in the driveway doesn't warm up the engine any faster than gently driving off (in fact it will probably take more time to warm up sitting in park...especially if the engine cuts off).
--35 to 40 MPG sure does suck for a Prius. A friend of mine just bought one last month and is getting about 50 MPG per tank with a D.C. commute almost identical to yours. My lifetime average (since Jan. '04) is in the low 50's. Is your parking brake on? Are your tires deflated? Do you drive in the "B" position rather than the "D" position? Do you take a lot of short trips?
--Once the engine is warmed up, accelerate briskly up to just beyond the speed limit, let up slightly on the accelerator so as to cut off the engine, and try to maintain your speed or slowly bleed it off without engaging the engine. If your engine does pop on, accelerate to regain any lost speed and try it again. It's quite easy to get EPA comparable results as long as you're not doing a lot of short trips in cold weather.
--It'd be a nice service if Toyota recruited a local Prius guru to ride along with new purchasers to help them achieve high-mileage nirvana. Might eliminate a lot of these complaints.
Traffic around here does not permit the most fuel efficient driving styles unless one is willing to compromise caution and safety.
I've found our 05's highway mpg varies directly with freeway speed. That is, each mile per hour increase in speed between 65 and 75 results a decrease of one mpg. I suspect the mpg drop will get worse as speed increases above 75 and the improvement will be even better at speeds below 65.
That is strangely low. Are you doing all short trips? The Prius has much worse MPG in cold weather and on short trips.
--You don't have to compromise safety to be fuel efficient (in fact, quite the opposite). You may, however, need to change your driving style.
--No hoop jumping necessary. Your mileage will naturally be lower because you've only had your Prius during the cold weather months. Trips of only 5-10 mins in length will further reduce efficiency (the first 5 mins of driving in cold weather typically results in MPGs of around 20 to 25).
--I traveled through Illinois (I-80) the first week of October and over the course of my 1000 mile trip, I got over 55 MPG with the cruise control set to around 70 mph (what can be easier than that?). Strangely, however, the worst gas mileage I got was while driving west through IL. Must be the Bermuda Triangle for hybrids.....either that or the long, gradual hills of IL hit the fuel efficiency more than the more pronounced elevations of PA and western MD (perhaps because the engine is always on since the descents are not steep enough to coast down on e-power alone). Have patience...with warmer weather it can only improve.
Don't trust the computer; calculate your MPG after your 2nd fill up by taking the miles driven and dividing by the gallons used.
You can't use the first fill up because the dealer may not have filled up completely.
OK, I'll go along with that.
I have a 2000 Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 V8 and I can get over 125 mph (on the high side)
My brother has a 2005 H2 Hummer and he can get 130 mph (on the high side)
So "high side" mileage means nothing!
As to "real world" value, the Prius and all other hybrids are very, very poor investments. any good Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla do far better for saving money on mileage costs.
CK
PS The Space Probe that is going out of our solar system
used about 100,000 gals. to get out of earth's
gravational pull.
It will now use no more fuel for the rest of
it's eternal trip, I guess that's about a ga zillion,
ga zillion, ga zillion miles to the gal. (High side)
of course!
But then it is truly not "Real World" is it? So much
for "High Side"
I am concerned about high maintenance cost with replacing battery or control as will have 140K - 160K in 4 years.
Any experiences?
If miles per gallon, then over how many miles?
#78 of 80 Re: Hybrid Mileage = Robbing Peter to Pay Paul [xcel] by clarkkent Mar 19, 2006 (5:33 am)
Replying to: xcel (Jan 05, 2006 4:12 pm)
Mr. Gerdes, A Prius II can achieve 120 mph (high side)
OK, I'll go along with that.
I have a 2000 Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 V8 and I can get over 125 mph (on the high side)
My brother has a 2005 H2 Hummer and he can get 130 mph (on the high side)
So "high side" mileage means nothing!
As to "real world" value, the Prius and all other hybrids are very, very poor investments. any good Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla do far better for saving money on mileage costs.
CK
PS The Space Probe that is going out of our solar system
used about 100,000 gals. to get out of earth's
gravational pull.
It will now use no more fuel for the rest of
it's eternal trip, I guess that's about a ga zillion,
ga zillion, ga zillion miles to the gal. (High side)
of course!
But then it is truly not "Real World" is it? So much
for "High Side"
If that is the case couldn't the battery pack be made up off a series of smaller batteries?
Gampa
I have no idea how to get the best MPG. I am so ready for these skills, please coach me! I drive 7 miles each way to work in a combination of city and highway traffic. I live in alaska, and it can be quite cold here at times, though we are moving into the high 30's, low 40's now. Please give me any and all information about best MPG, nothing is too technical. I cycle all summer and have learned alot about maximum speed with minimum effort....want these techniques with this amazing car! (whose name is Susan.)
And the recharging process is far from 100% efficient. That is, it has got to be more efficient to operate with the IC alone than with a combination of electric and IC power, or electric only, over a certain stretch, IF the IC engine is operating near its most efficient state. The fact that for the Prius the EPA test mileage value is higher for the city than for the highway raises a red flag. This is almost certainly a misleading quirk of this test.
This gives people the impression that the hybrid could cover a given stretch of road using less fuel in a stop and go fashion than it can at some constant speed, but this is surely not true. Imagine a 10-mile level stretch of road and imagine the following different ways of traversing that stretch from stopped on one end to stopped on the other end. (Assume the battery is fully charged at the start, and that the a/c and defroster is off.):
1) Cover the 10 mi in 1 mile segments as follows: Accelerate with ordinary city briskness to 40 mph then maintain this until time to brake and brake with ordinary city braking force as used to stop at a light in traffic and come to a stop at the 1 mile mark. Repeat this 9 more times.
2) Accelerate with ordinary city briskness to 30 mph and maintain this until time to brake for the 10-mile mark where you brake with ordinary city braking force.
3) Same as 2) but accelerate to 40.
4) Same as 2) but accelerate to 50.
5), 6), 7) as 2) but accelerate to 60, 70, 80.
You would almost certainly find that one of these constant speed trips would use less fuel than the stop-and-go one, but note that you would have to take into account the state of charge of the battery the end of the 10 miles. I wonder if the EPA city test accounts for this. The EPA test lasts only a few minutes and is on a dynamometer. If the battery is significantly discharged at the end of the test, and this is not accounted for, then the test would give a falsely high estimate of city mpg. Almost certainly the constant 40 mph trip would require less fuel than the faster ones because of increasing air resistance with higher speed.
The efficiency advantage of the hybrid is due to the vehicle being powered by a relatively small IC engine operating so as to optimize efficiency (see Atkinson cycle in Wikipedia), but which would by itself not have sufficient maximum power for brisk acceleration. The vehicle has on call a battery powered electic motor which does not consume energy when it is not being used, except for the extra fuel required to accelerate the vehicle due to the extra mass of the electric drive apparatus.
In short--a Prius without the electric apparatus would be more efficient than a hybrid, but the acceleration would be unacceptable for most American drivers. A non-hybrid (IC only) Prius with a say 100 hp IC engine and with a nifty transmission continuously variable or other transmission could possibly have sufficient acceleration and cost a whole lot less over its lifetime. Unlike Honda with the Civic, Toyota doesn't offer the Prius in an IC only version because they want to give the impression that the hybrid has some sort of efficiency advantage that it really doesn't.
Some people have modified their Priuses to allow them to be plugged in to the electricity grid. This does have some efficiency advantages (but is a large capital outlay) because the ultimate source of power is then the power company electric generating and distribution system which is more efficient than the vehicle's onboard IC engine. More about that in another post.
EPA is aware that their current test gives a falsely high value for the Prius city mileage and EPA is supposedly going to revise its test procedures to give a more accurate result for the Prius and for all hybrids.
We drive for fuel economy in our 1991 Dodge Spirit (100 hp 2.5L 4-cyl 5-spd manual) and 2004 Volvo V70 (168 hp 2.4L 5-cyl 5-spd auto) and we get very close to the EPA estimates for both city and highway. For the V70 the EPA ests are 24 city and 30 hwy. I have gotten 31.5 mpg over 500 miles on the interstate from Dallas to Kansas in hot weather at 70 to 75 mph with the a/c on. But this is by staying with traffic flow in the right lane, i.e. minimal speed changes. Also whether on the highway or in the city I try to keep enough distance from the car in front of me that I have as little braking as possible. I try as much a possible to use the accelerator pedal to control speed. I try to see ahead and coast to red lights without excessively irritating drivers behind me, many of whom seem to me to just rush up to red lights and brake hard at the last minute.
On the highway my 100hp Spirit gets 34-35 mpg at 70 mph with the a/c on. A Corolla would get 40 mpg. A Scion Xb would get 36 mpg or so. A Scion Xb is the functional equivalent of a Prius and will do everything a Prius will for a whole lot less total cost of ownership.
I think a Prius does have better acceleration than an Xb and may be stronger structurally so would be more protective in a crash.
The true city mileage of a Prius will be very different depending on the environmental conditions. The real world city mileage in nasty midwestern winter weather may be low 30s or high 20s mpg and in springtime in Las Vegas it may be mid 40s or higher mpg.
Our mileage is just what I was expecting - low 40's [42-45 mpg] on a green engine [less than 1000 miles] in mild winter conditions.
I also owned a current-gen automatic Corolla, and I can assure you, that car is incapable of 40 mpg unless you plan to drive at a steady 50 mph for the rest of your life. We consistently got 28-31 in the same conditions that the Prius returns 42-45. I like the Corolla - it's surprisingly roomy and refined for its class [still worlds quieter than even the new-gen Civic], but can't match the Prius for comfort and practicality.
The Prius has real room for 4 actual adults, 16 cubic feet of hatch-accessed cargo space, and a quiet demeanor on the road. It is laughable to suggest a Scion Xb could be a substitute for this car - only someone who has not tried both at freeway speeds would make that suggestion. The Xb redefines "rude and crude", and is priced accordingly.
I have no problems at all being part of this "experiment"; if you don't want one, that's fine, but I suspect I'm not the only one in this forum who wants to hear less from people who don't own the car and obviously don't care to. To each his own...it's hard to imagine someone savvy enough to be interested in the Prius now who has unrealistic expectations about real-world fuel consumption. For me, the gas mileage is only one part of the total package that this car represents...and I'm not kicking 45 mpg out of bed.
However, people on this forum have expressed disappointment at their fuel economy in the city and I thought it was OK for me to discuss the general idea of the physical basis for a fuel economy advantage in a hybrid. Fuel economy is a big selling point for the Prius and I think it is reasonable to discuss just what mpg one can realistically expect from the Prius.
Is there an operating procedure for the Prius which confers improved fuel economy which is different from that which would achieve this result for a standard powerplant?
I drive the car like I have driven every one of the other 53 cars I've owned since the early '60s...and I get mid-40s on an engine that isn't broken in.
To me, the narrow focus on the problems with the EPA testing procedure misses the central point about the value of this car - I respect the folks who seem so obsessed with this, but I just think it'a a waste of time and energy to keep repeating the same breathless stuff about the EPA numbers.
Find another car with this interior room, hatch practicality, and 40+ mpg on regular. There aren't any, because I looked, hard. The closest thing is a VW diesel, but the Jetta wagon is gone for now, and there is nothing else in the lineup that really comes close.
60 mpg? Maybe downhill with a tailwind....but so what?
While visiting a relative in New Orleans nursing home a month BK (before Katrina) I slept one night in the back seat of my 91 Spirit which was pretty rough sleeping. It is a base model Spirit without a fold-down rear seat back so I slept on the back seat on on my left side with my head next to the left rear door and my lower legs hanging out in the space behind the right front seat pushed all the way forward. It was hot, but I couldn't have the windows down more than a crack partly because of mosquitos but mainly because it was not a fully safe area in parking lot of that nursing home. I was dripping with sweat and had a lot of trouble getting to sleep, but finally did about 1am and slept till about 7am. Point being that a hatchback or wagon would have been a lot better.
I am establishing my bona fides as a person who knows the value of hatchback. We formerly owned an 81 Pontiac Phoenix which my wife and I (5'11" tall) slept in in certain campgrounds in Glacier Nat'l Park, and I have slept very comfortably in the back of 1996 Volvo 850 and 2004 V70 wagons.
There is no matching a minivan for sleeping in, except, of course, a full sized van like a Chevy Express or much better still a high roof Dodge (Mercedes-Benz) Sprinter van which a 6'+ person can walk around in without stooping, but these are totally unsuitable for daily transportation on the score of fuel consumption. The only reasonable use of these for anybody who cares about reducing their carbon footprint is to rent one for the few planned trips when they would actually be needed.
Can a 6' tall person sleep in the back of a Prius? Does the rear seat cushion fold up and is it removable?
When I looked at the Jetta wgn several year ago I could see that in stock configuration sleeping in the back would not be ideal. Same with a Subaru Forester. I expect it's the same with a Scion Xb.
In the Volvo wagons the rear seat hinges up to allow the rear seatback to fold down and make a flat floor which measures 66" straight back to the tailgate and 82" or so diagonally. But the rear seat cushions also come out entirely and only this gives enough clear space for two regular height adults to sleep in side-by-side and be able to stretch out completely. A level surface which is long enough to stretch out completely is really important for fully restful sleep. In the Volvo wagons the two parts of the rear seat bottom can be removed and could be shifted to the front seat to make about 82" straight back which is plenty of room for two sleeping side by side.
In our 1981 Pontiac Phoenix hatchback I was able to remove the rear seat cushion by just removing four bolts and this opened up the back all the way to the back of the front seats. We did this because we were in Glacier NP at a campground which we discovered after one night in a tent had just been reopened for tent camping after having been restricted for a number of years to hard-sided camping. There had been a grizzly attack in which two people had been pulled out of a tent and killed by two huge rogue adolescent male grizzlies. The back of the Phoenix was tight on the sides, but we were able to sleep side-by-side fully stretched out with our heads toward the back. On the way home from that trip we were in a state park in Utah where we had intended to sleep in the tent when a serious storm came up--high winds, driving rain. Working entirely inside the Phoenix we were able to shift all our gear, except for the sleeping bags and pads, into the front seats, which were packed all the way to the headliner. We slept dry and secure even though the gusting winds were so strong that they rocked the car. Many people in the campground had tents blown down during the night and had to retreat to the concrete block restroom.
Given all the things I want a vehicle to be able to do it is no wonder that I have a hard time deciding what to get. I have since found that by removing two bolts I can remove the rear seatback in my 91 Spirit and can fold down the trunk liner to make a combined trunk-backseat space where I can sleep stretched out. It would not really be enough room for two though. But if I want to visit my elderly relative again (AK, after Katrina, in a nursing home in Kansas) I can sleep in the back of my Spirit in comfort. I could take the V70, but I can't stand to leave my wife with a 91 Spirit as her transportation. Compared to a V70 or a Prius a 91 Spirit is not reliable nor is it as safe in a crash. But seemingly while it runs I cannot stand to part with it. I have been told by a Scottish friend that if I want to retire to Scotland, I would have no cultural adjustment.
My "City" driving is usually short trips so I can not comment on actually achieving EPA 60 mpg. If it is a long drive, I am sure I can beat EPA number as well.
Now, let's compare oranges to apples in the same shoes =D When I had my Celica, I used to get 30-32 mpg in the same driving route/pattern. I was only expecting 48 mpg in Prius but I am quite please with what I am getting now. Imagine warmer weather coming and after the breakin period.... Also, I have not switch to Synthetic oil yet -- as used in Celica. I only foresee my average mpg in Prius going up. Another satisfied (one of the 95%) owner.
Dennis
It seems that the Prius engine is set up to run on the "Atkinson cycle" with the result that its effective CR is less than the nominal 13 to 1 link title. I don't think Toyota did this mainly to allow the use of regular, but rather because this makes the gasoline engine more efficient, although at the expense of power. It may also decrease emissions, but I haven't seen this in print.
Presumably the Prius can accept 10% ethanol as an additive in the regular gasoline in the fuel. The owner's manual of my wife's V70 states it can use gasoline with up to 10% ethanol and up to 15% MTBE, which are currently used as "oxygenates" in so called reformulated gasolines designed to reduce pollution, although this controversial.
I wonder if the Prius engine and fuel system will currently accept or can be easily modified for the future to accept higher levels of ethanol in the gasoline. This may be one way the US tries to decrease its dependence on petroleum. Right now there are some vehicles, designated flexible fuel vehicles, which can run on any gasoline from no ethanol up to 85% ethanol (E85). But I have seen the results of one limited study in which 3 or 4 different ordinary cars were run on gasoline with four levels of ethanol (0%, 10%, 20% and 30%) with the reported result that the cars ran fine with no triggering of the engine warning lights. However, the mpg was lower with ethanol because ethanol produces less heat per unit volume when combusted than do the hydrocarbons in gasoline, because ethanol is already partly oxidized. Also this study did not determine if the higher levels of ethanol were damaging the fuel systems. Corrosion is the worry.
The requirement for premium fuel does not bother me at all because the additional cost is insignificant. I'm interested in producing the fewest emissions including CO2. AKI 91 octane is not available in Dallas where we live and we fuel our V70 with AKI 93 octane.
By using two sequential additions I could mix approximately equal volumes of 93 and 89 (or 3+1 of 93 and 87) to give the 91 Volvo says is recommended, but this would save very little money and would presumably release more fumes during refueling, so I just use 93. In Dallas right now 89 is 10cents more per gallon than 87, and 93 is 10cents more than 89. We get 30 mpg on the highway with 93 octane and I would be willing to pay a lot more for fuel if the emissions were lower and the mpg greater. I want to reduce my carbon footprint and my my total impact on the world environment.
A Prius has a much lower environmental foot print than a Volvo V70, but we have to transport four dogs (2 medium and 2 large) and we also sometimes pull a utility trailer. I would bet that a Prius could tow a light trailer even though it may not be officially approved for it. Say like this one link title which would give the Prius the capacity of a minivan.
After over 110,000 miles and 5.5 years of me driving Prius using only E10 (10% ethanol), there is nothing left to presume. It obviously is no big deal.
Good thing too. E10 is the only type of gas available in Minnesota and has been since the late 90's. So there is actually millions of miles of Prius data using the stuff. E20 will become the standard in Minnesota in 2013.
JOHN
16 mpg = 8 oz per mile
24 mpg = 5.33 oz per mile, 2.67 oz less than above
48 mpg = 2.67 oz per mile, 2.67 oz less than above
100 mpg = 1.28 oz per mile, 1.39 oz less than above
While some people may well need the big truck to haul the trailer and the kids, luggage and pets, but for many this is definitely not the case. I don't think many people realize the fuel savings achieved by going from 16 to 24 mpg. 8 mpg doesn't look like much at at the surface. By the same token, as you get into the mid-40s mpg range diminishing returns really start to kick in. Getting to 100 mpg, for instance, is not the world saver it may seem.
The way it is done in the US it is easier to compare the relative distances one could travel with different vehicles on a given amount of fuel. Our system would be appropriate if fuel was rationed and each person had a fixed amount of fuel, but that is not how people think. Mobility is such a strongly held value that right now most people in the US drive as much as they must to do the things they want to and have time to do, and adjust other parts of their budget if fuel costs rise. They complain when fuel costs rise, but don't drive less.
Also at least since WWII most people in the US today don't think in practical terms when it comes to buying a car. A car is supposed to be satisfying and exciting, and people are willing and even eager to pay a premium for fun.
The conversion between the US and the European fuel efficiency systems is as follows. Take whichever value you have and divide it into 235 and the result is the equivalent in the other system.
Example 1. A certain owner of a Prius gets 50 mi/galUS. What is this in the European system? 235/50 = 4.7 L/100km.
Example 2. The VW Lupo 3L gets this designation because it consumes equal to or less than 3L of diesel fuel to travel 100km. What is the US mpg figure? 235/3.0 = 78 mi/galUS. Note. A/C is not standard on the VW Lupo and the Lupo 3L does not get 78 mpg with an a/c running. Also note that 1 galUK = 1.2 galUS so British and American mpg values are not the same.
Has anyone seen the nonsense GM is now spreading with their E85 promotion?
They have a handout distributed at auto shows which states: "Annual gallons of gasoline saved with E85 2006 4wd Yukon SUV vs Toyota Prius is 133". Not only do they mislead by using a cross-class comparison, but they don't even bother to mention either the non-E85 quantity for Yukon or the E85 quantity for Prius. To things even more misleading, they use only highway MPG estimate values for their calculations. That's intentional deception no matter how you look at it.
Doing the math yourself, you discover that Yukon guzzles 1,071 gallons for their 15,000 mile highway-only measurement with pure gasoline. Prius uses 294. That's 777 gallons less for the same distance using the same type of fuel. Switching to E85, the MPG converts to 9.4 for Yukon and 34.2 for Prius. That calculates to about 1,596 and 441, respectively. In other words, Prius still saves. In this case, Prius uses 1,155 less. See how incredibly misleading their original quote of 133 was?
It gets much worse when using the city MPG estimate values. Yukon efficiency drops and Prius efficiency improves. So if they were at least trying to be sincere, they would have used an average of highway/city combined value. But they didn't. Instead, they choose only the value that favored their product.
That is just plain wrong.
On the same handout, they also compared to their Impala sedan and the Silverado pickup. The Impala is from the same class, but the numbers still use those same misleading calculation methods. Gas Prius saves 358. And E85 Prius saves 533. But since an E85 version of Prius isn't available today, they feel type of comparison is appropriate. Long-Term that most definitely is not the case.
So comparing future model years (about the time E85 is actually available to many), the hybrid saves... not their non-hybrid examples as they claim.
JOHN
I might add that they do not drive less aggressively either. When gas hit 3 bucks the roads were as full and moving as fast as ever in So. CA. People spend as much a day for a Latte' as they do gas. I think it will have to hit $5 to get serious attention.
I think somebody should complain to the FTC or the EPA about the claims for the E85 Yukon. This goes beyond cynical manipulation to outright fraud. Fuel ethanol and gasoline are interchangeable in that a given volume V of fuel ethanol can be used to make a volume 1.18V of E85 or a volume 10V of E10 which could be used right now by either a FFV or the majority of others which are limited to E10. GM must be desperate to sink to this.
So, strictly speaking, it isnt the car that gets the better mileage, it is the driver. The car, then, determines how much 'better' will be. The Prius, of course, gets better mileage because of the way it is set up, but that is secondary to the nearly nonexistant pollution.