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Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?

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  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And don't forget next year this time we will be talking about the new Outback with more toe-room and overall better for what outback folks have been looking for. So that should help keep the ball rolling.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should follow the Forester strategy - keep a lid on pricing and just make it more space-efficient without going too big.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    This isn't about sinking fortunes - Subaru is going to wind up being one of only two automakers that didn't go down with the ship in 2008 - but can this be true? Subaru is DROPPING OUT OF THE WRC?????????

    How can this be?

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081216/FREE/812169995

    Subaru and rally competition have been synonymous for nearly 20 years, but in a surprising move, the company said on Tuesday that it is pulling out of the 2009 World Rally Championship in response to the global economic crisis.

    The Prodrive-run Subaru team has won six WRC titles--three manufacturer's and three driver's--and built up a strong following around the world. In turn, rally success has helped Subaru sell sporty cars and burnish its image with enthusiasts, in the process making the blue Impreza rally car an icon.

    The announcement came from Subaru's parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries, which said it had met its objectives for WRC competition.


    I can't even imagine WRC without Subaru! I'm sure I won't follow it as closely any more without Subaru in it. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Several years ago one of the posters in here talked me into trying to follow WRC after I told them watching it was like watching grass grow. Also I couldn't see what the WRX had to do with a company that couldn't get better than third in the series. Every year for the last three years I have teased them about getting third. Then last year Ford takes the manufacturers Championship and Subaru once again got third. This year Ford got second and Subaru? Third. They are exactly tearing up the series and haven't been for at least six years.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I know their WRC heyday was the late 90s, but what of tradition? :cry:

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    In racing tradition has lost its glimmer. It is more about winning and Subaru can't put it together. I remember when Audi was the big guy on the block but no more. I remember when Honda was a force in F-1 and now F-1 has a hard time finding teams to field. So in today's economy why invest in a sport you can't win? Subaru simply doesn't have the equipment to go head to head with the French and Ford. This year Subaru was never in contention for the top spot and by now it is money wasted. Take a look at their finishes this year.
    http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/wrc_history.html

    They migh as well pull out even if the independents will continue to race some of their WRC cars for a few years after they leave. They just aren't getting much bang for the buck in WRC. In my opinion. :surprise:
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Heck Audi owns American LeMans and they dropped it as well. Ford being as broke as they are should probably drop WRC but like most american companies they'll just rockout and spend money til the well is completely dry. Typical of how americans and american companies work :(

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I agree it seems as if it would have been time for Ford to drop WRC as well. They just can't seem to get it into their head that there is no financial gain in WRC so you need to be pretty flush to continue it just for bragging rights. The only racing tha provides any real advertising value is not the one they many in these forums care for. NASCAR is highly attended and may have some value in fan loyalty.

    It seems as if when the smoke clears a prediction many have made about the auto industry may come true and only a few super manufacturers will be left. I don't have a clue to who those companies will be but I think there will be fewer American Manufacturers left when all is said and done.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    And on a sidenote, I think we may have seen the American racing scene peak already, and begin its slow but inevitable decline. Certainly, it has been a long time since racing prowess sold any cars, I am hearkening back to the pre-internet days here at least.

    Wanna know something funny? One of the reasons I bought my OBS in 1997 was because Sube had just won the WRC championship with their Impreza. Of course, the street Impreza I purchased didn't have a lot in common with that rally car, but I liked the (fake) hood scoop and the feel it gave off that it could go anywhere and finish in first place. LOL! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    And now 11 years later they can't take a first in even on race out of 12? Subaru has changed a lot in 11 years. They used to refuse to admit they had a SUV, as if a CR-V and Rav-4 were any bigger than a Forester, and then they made a specific SUV that was so ugly they had to redesign it early. They released a sub compact pickup nobody wanted. I still think they have the most loyal customer in the industry but I don't know how that will stand up to 2009 and the economy. Are they even looking into a hybrid? I don't know.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well first it was "Toyota took a stake in us, we should be able to share their hybrid tech at a later date", then that seemed to fade away, next it was "we have a great diesel boxer ready, should be in the U.S. by 2010", next we heard "nope that diesel is only OK for 43-state emissions, we don't think in the current environment we want to spend the money necessary to make it a 50-state engine". So who knows. They have already said the redesigned 2010 Legacy that comes next summer will have the same engines it does now, with (my opinion only) the possible exception/likelihood that the new bigger flat-six will go in as the optional top-line engine instead of the current 3.0. At least it runs on regular, but it is noooo gas-sipper.

    I do think the current Impreza is a nice piece of work, much more so than the last model, and as I get more and more restless with the Matrix, I may be making the switch, we will see.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Get an STi they are practically giving them away with 0% financing and rebates!

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Nah, I am a humble civil servant, so I am waaay at the other end of the line - I am thinking about picking up a 2.5i Premium. In fact, my local dealer has one 2008 left which I am wondering if they would part with for a very healthy discount, as we are two weeks from CY 2009 and they have several 2009 Premiums in stock now, which of course have been improved as they now have a moonroof (they went up in price about $1000 too, so that may not help me that much).

    I am not sure how I feel about the light cream-colored interior though - very easily marked and stained I assume....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    I thought you were big on fuel mileage?

    The '08 is rated at 20/27.. I average 26-28, taking it pretty easy... Torquey motor, but runs out of breath pretty quickly.. not that much fun to shift.. weird throttle response..

    Mine has the black interior, which is not that attractive, but stays clean..

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  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Yes, I have followed your exploits closely in the Impreza thread, as I see you picked up the very car I am contemplating buying earlier this year.

    Every car built today has a hanging throttle, I got used to it in the Matrix and the RSX before that, and the Impreza will be about the same. If you ever want to experience a REALLY bad hanging throttle, try driving a GM car with the 4-cylinder - I tried out the Cobalt and the Ion and both are the same. You step off the gas and hit that clutch, and wait and wait for the revs to fall, it's crazy.

    I am fairly confident of pulling a steady 30 mpg in the Impreza because of my driving pattern (very little stop and go, mostly suburban and rural for this car, I am pulling 35.5 mpg average in the Matrix, I take the Echo when I go into the city), and I am used to the torquey/runs out of breath thing with the engine, as the 2.2 in my OBS was exactly the same.

    I miss the AWD - this is the first time I have been without it for many years - so that's why the Impreza is in the running. The Mazda3 is also in the running, no AWD of course but it has better mileage and is a more fun car to drive as well. We will see. I may yet do nothing, but the Matrix is running out of good will in my book.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Yeah... The tanks where I don't run errands on the weekend are over the 28 mpg range, so you may get 30.. but, that would flat kill it..

    The hanging throttle on this model was bad enough that they had a software update... that only fixed about 1/3 of the problem... I've driven other sticks... This is definitely the worst... It really kills the enjoyment...

    But, handling is pretty darn good, tires suck in the snow.. Lots of interior room for a sedan (Except for the cost, I'd rather have a hatch).

    I leased it, because it was dirt cheap... If I had to buy it for the actual cost ($18,500 selling price), then I'd pick something else...

    Good luck!
    kyfdx

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I've have minimal complaints about my 07 5-spd hatchback. I can agree with kyfdx that the gearbox isn't great (I've got the S2000 if I want a slick gearbox) and the engine is torquey but winded, but other than that I really, really like the car. It goes through the snow quite well for a car of its size and as a commuter, I find it cruises on the highway with very little fuss or high revs. I think it cruises around 3 grand at 80mph and still returns 30mpg in the warmer weather. Right now, it's been getting a solid 27mpg due to the colder temps and winter gas, but the AWD is worth the mileage hit here in N.E.

    My only other complaint is the cross winds will blow this car around on the highway. I've nicknamed her "Little wanderer" for that reason :) But for the $$$, I could not find anything that competes with it. And, I'd buy another one if I had to do it all over again.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWD rallys, no Subaru, is the world coming to an end? :cry:

    Can't blame them, though, the French makes were spending a fortune to win and this isn't the time to spend buckets of money to start winning again.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Next thing you know Ford will drop out as it gets squeezed in the U.S., then instead of the WRC it will just be the ERC (European Rally Championship).

    And Honda is out of F1 racing. I think the world really IS ending.

    But I will miss the Impreza's face in WRC racing the most. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There's always the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge.

    "This year it's the $2008 Challenge, meaning that competitors have to produce documents and receipts which prove that no more than $2,008 (not including labor) has been spent on the vehicle in question."

    One example - an '82 Corolla:

    image
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    sales figures for 2008 will be published in a week or so. Will Subaru prove to be one of only two automakers who had flat or positive sales results in the U.S. versus 2007? (the other being Daimler, which only increased sales this year by adding the Smart line of cars to the U.S. market, otherwise it would be down like all the rest)

    Between that and the way they got their SIA problems sorted out with Toyota taking a share of the plant for Camry production, we will have to change the title of this thread to "Subaru's star rising - can it ever stop?"

    :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    What percent of the market does Subaru have? Can they ever be a rising star? :confuse:

    I wonder if you have any glasses in your house that are half empty? No for all the years we have been talking I believe yours are all half full. :shades:
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    The raising star was a joke, but I'm totally with Nippon in terms of "half full" this time. I would call it a great achievement if your market did not shrink while others contracted by 20-40 percent, wouldn't you? Marketshare is really irrelevant, but if you insist - if others see sales go down and yours stay flat, it means your marketshare goes up. To top the spin, if your starting point is really low than you see a big growth in that marketshare :P .

    But it's more important if you made money or at least did not lose too much of it. Toyota became No. 1 in US and guess what - they generated their first loss, not a pretty thing considering their big profit projections.

    Flat sales figures in rapidly contracting market show very stable, loyal and relatively affluent customer base. I would venture to say that large portion of Forester/Outback owners park next to their coworker's BMWs and Audis or what not, not because they couldn't afford anything "better", they simply didn't see any reason to. Obviously not all of them, but I read that already five years ago their median income was $70K - I know it's not as much in New England, but it's enough to get you a more expensive car if you live with your parents ;).

    Perhaps a few of those who traded down from truck-based 15 mpg monstrocities were also picked up on the way to build those raising new Forester figures. If you look at the itemized figures, it is basically new Forester that saved them. All other models are in the tank - which is a concern for SIA (Outback/Legacy production). Hopefully new Legacy and the country coming to its senses from SUV addiction will revive the midsize sales.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    All other models are in the tank - which is a concern for SIA (Outback/Legacy production). Hopefully new Legacy and the country coming to its senses from SUV addiction will revive the midsize sales

    That's not true! Impreza sales are flat, which would normally be bad as it was only recently redesigned, but in a market that's down 20% I call that OK.

    And of course the new Legacy and Outback launches next year. The current one is 5 years old, so if that is down in sales on pace with the overall market, I will call THAT OK too! :-)

    I don't know their exact market share, but it's about 2% in normal years. If the overall market is down 25% or more this year, then Subaru's overall share may have gained as much as a whole point, which at 3% would be the largest share of the American market they have ever had!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    the small suv market, cr-v, escape, rav 4. they have become more car like.
    also there are more awd sedans. you get an awd fusion for about the same price as an imprezza.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Broken record here....

    Plus they need to get rid of the 4 speed auto already. Five, six, and seven speeds are becoming common. I think it is a crime that they have the 4EAT with the 4 cylinder engine.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I have never denied that Subaru customers are unbelievably loyal. And for such a small company to hold on in this economy is worth mentioning. I am not holding my breath for 2009 however. A small company doesn't have as much wiggle room as something like Toyota. I also realize that the sun belt isn't a prime area for Subaru sales. We don't have many dealers in this area and the need for AWD and the cost isn't justified over all the small car compitition. In the snow belt they have even a more loyal following than Honda does here. I just don't put much stock into calling such a small company a rising star. Parts of Subaru have been bought and passed around too much over the last few years to call them a star.

    But if I lived in the snow again Subaru would be on my short list. I just wonder how they will do next year, or should I say in the first quarter of 2009. That will be a test to see how far customer loyalty goes. Without a spin of course. ;)
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    I think the key word here is debt. If you debt level is low than even tough economy is not going to take you out, as scaling down is a simple excersize of lowering input and output (variable cost reduction) and reducing your fixed costs with them. Conversely, if you lived on high debt, any adverse wind can take you out really fast. Basically, the lever works both ways. So, it's not really the size of the company, but its balance sheet that matters (case in point: GM vs. Toyota).

    I would also be very cautious if not downright skeptical in calling Subaru a rising star - it takes more than just surviving one bad year. But it definitely was doing much better in 2008 than many others, even though I remember in early 2008 it did not look that great: WRX was already a clear disapointment (probably only Mike and Juice liked it ;) ), Tribeca could not find its way back even after a clear improvement (was just too late), Outback and Legacy were already on their way down, Forester was still unknown, the only bright spot then was Impreza 2.5i and to much lesser degree STI.

    Now - can anybody tell me how is FHI doing in terms of their balance sheet and debt levels?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    nippononly surely said that tongue-in-cheek, he even had this emotorcon after that phrase: :P

    So let's not overreact, folks.

    Still, dino001 will tell you I'm the optimist and even I did not think the new Forester would be enough to offset a lousy market, but it was. I predicted success for the Forester, but I thought the market would be so bad it would drag Subaru down with it. It's in this very thread, actually, right about a year ago.

    If the market is down 25%, Subaru sales thru Novemeber were up slightly, so that means they increased their market share by more than 25%, which is quite a feat.

    Rising star? Not quite. Fair to call them a diamond in the rough, though.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    brings up Subaru's market share to, say, 2.5%, that's pretty significant. It's one of every 40 vehicles sold, and consider that they have a very limited presence in parts of the Sun Belt, which includes California, Texas, and Florida, 3 big car markets.

    Plus, I wonder how much other niche manufacturers have - Subaru's share probably handily exceeds that of Mitsubishi, for instance, and is probably quadruple Porsche's, or more. It handily beats the Scion brand, which has almost twice as many dealers. What other good niche automaker examples are there? Hmmm......

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mitsu is suffering badly, a few months this year even Suzuki beat them out. And Suzuki is sharing parts and costs with GM.

    Scion is really just a sub-division of Toyota, though they up-sized the engine just when the market decided they wanted smaller ones. Seriously bad timing, is all.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Isn't Suzuki going to re-badge a Nissan pickup as a Suzuki?

    That wouldn't be a bad move for Subaru... An AWD-only Tacoma as a Subie.. Heck.. my Subie salesperson has to sell L-M part-time, next door, just to stay busy...

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    "An AWD-only Tacoma as a Subie."

    Could work—if it offered the full-time, permanent (AWD) 4WD that comes with the Land Cruiser.

    I've always felt that boxer engines had to be part of the Subaru picture, but I've come to realize that a gas or diesel engine of any type will only be a short-term solution. The future is with electric power. So using a Toyota engine, I could live with, knowing that it's only a stop-gap solution.

    Having said that, I do still think, that if it's badged as Subaru, it MUST have a full-time AWD of some sort.

    Bob
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Tough Love From My Driveway (AutoObserver)

    Tractor? Brazenly cheap?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    i kind of think 5+ speed transmissons are somewhat fashion statements.
    an engine with a good torque band doesn't really need a lot of speeds.
    that being said, i like the 6 speed in my fusion better the than the 4 speed in my wife's escape. they have basically the same engine. it's probably just that the 6 speed shifts better.
    does anyone here who lives in a cold climate leave the wipers in the 'up' position against the windshield? (see mustang pic).
    if they are frozen against the glass, it's a lot harder to scrape the ice and you have to break them loose anyway.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sometimes I'll stick my wipers "out" at the ski hill if it's cold and snowing. I never left my wipers like that Mustang's, even when my cars lived outside in Anchorage. What would be the advantage?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    i have seen it done too, but i just don't get it.
    it's not a comment on the vehicle reviewer. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well actually, his criticism on the Forester (and Subarus in general) is stuff we've all been saying for quite some time here on the Subaru Crew; just not with so much gusto.

    What he's missing is—consumers still love the new Forester—even with these faults. This car (and the new Impreza) is why Subaru is one of the very few automakers that will post a sales gain for 2008.

    Bob
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    What cannot be ignored is that if you want an AWD vehicle, the base Forester and Impreza are the only two ways in under $20K new, except for the SX4 which has less power and a very poor dealer network.

    Having sat in these models all back to back at the auto show, I don't think you can deny that the interior of both models is "brazenly cheap", but I have driven the Impreza and I believe it to be an $18K drive for an $18K price sticker, so I wouldn't call its drive "cheap" or "tractor-like". I should drive the Forester some time and see how well it drives.

    This guy also complains about the fuel economy, but really how well are the class leaders doing? I think the RAV4 is like 21/27 to Forester's 20/27, and CRV is at 20/26 isn't it? So Forester is right there at the head of the pack in a three-way heat.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    And it is painfully slow getting it started, but the model I drove also had very low clutch takeup (inches above the bottom) which made it annoying to launch. But once rolling, the vehicle had plenty of oomph for my liking. If, I buy one, I'm gonna see if the dealer can adjust the position of the clutch release.

    I also wouldn't call it cheap by any means. The RAV4 isn't exactly a Lexus and the Forester is nowhere near as cheap inside as the Cheapuinox/Torent. It's on par with something like the Outlander, or the Escape which is acceptable for the under 24k asking price (2.5X Prem. w/AWP)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    And what's more, they were the ONLY ones to do it! Subaru was up in sales for CY 2008, up by 0.3% in a market that ended up down by 18.6%. In the end even Daimler couldn't stay in positive territory, down 1.5% for the year. And of course, the Japanese Big 3 were down by 7.9%, 10.9%, and 15.4% (in alphabetical order). So nobody besides Subaru had a better year in 2008 than they did in 2007.

    And I guess that accomplishment can be placed squarely on the shoulders of one model: the redesigned Forester. Which I personally believe took off because the ad campaign for it was much better than other Subaru ads in years past.

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090105/ANA05/901050281/1078-
    (registration link)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    Yeah - "love" campaign was bullseye, no question. One featuring this guy talking about replacing his old Forester was fantastic. But I think it was the product, not the ads that made it. GM has had multiple really good commercials, so what.

    Did you guys also notice multiple copycats springing up, or is it just me? "Camry a camry" comes in mind, there was one more I can't remember.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tacoma clone? Hmm, may give dealers more volume.

    I dunno, though, pickup sales are droppoing, it may be the wrong time to enter that segment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I predicted the Forester was going to be a hit, but even I, the optimist, didn't think it would be enough to overcome a lousy market. Kudos.

    The ad dino brought up really hit home for me - I had a 1998 Forester like the one featured in the ad and bought a 2009 also featured in the ad. My 98 was even the same COLOR!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I am a little puzzled - it seems that after a year in which Subaru sigificantly out-performed the market and reported a net GAIN in sales, it still came out last Friday and forecast that it will report an operating loss for the year??

    Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., the maker of Subaru-brand cars, forecast its first loss in 15 years, as the global recession decimates demand for new cars and a strong yen erodes overseas sales.

    Fuji Heavy forecasts a 19 billion yen ($211 million) loss in the year ending March 31, it said in a statement today, scrapping a previous forecast of 10 billion yen in net income. The company will post a 9 billion yen operating loss, compared with a previous forecast of a 23 billion yen operating profit.

    Separately, the company lowered its global sales target for this fiscal year by 60,900 vehicles to 554,800, it said in a statement. Fuji Heavy based its earnings forecast on an exchange rate of 101 yen to the dollar, compared with an earlier assumption of 103 yen.

    President Ikuo Mori may boost overseas production and procurement because of the strong yen, he told reporters today in Tokyo. He is also cutting board members’ pay by 10 percent from this month and they will not receive bonuses.


    Yikes, I would hate to see what the annual results would have been if they were down 18% in the U.S. as the rest of the market was....

    ...and on a sidenote, it would seem they need to start building Foresters and Imprezas in the U.S. like they do the Legacys and Outbacks, so as to be more protected from the yen exchange rate than they are currently.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a0JRRNwbIm5s&refer=japan

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I think many were simply wishing too hard that Subaru would dodge the same bullit that has hit the rest of the industry. As I have said before subaru owners are some of the most loyal owners I have ever talked to. But when you mentioned Subaru was dropping out of WRC I believe the idea that they simply couldn't afford to stay in the series and they couldn't afford to make a new car should have been an indicator of what was happening.

    http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-wrc-2008-12-16

    Yes racing will suffer in general as well as ALMS and F-1 take a hit. But Subaru has not dodged the bullit. anymore than anyone else. They are smaller so a small wound may hurt even more. The first half of 2009 will tell us a lot but I don't think the exchange rate will get any better. Subaru needs to hold on to a niche that may or may not hold up in a world looking for entry level new cars at entry level prices.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    From reading the article it seems that the parent company is reporting a loss, not necessarily Subaru itself. Fuji Heavy is involved in a lot more that just making Subarus, it could be that their loss is unrelated to the car side (they don't really say either way, though at least a third of the loss seems to be from the bankruptcy of the light plane builder that owes them money. They are of course projecting a drop in their sales for the next year, and want to reduce the impact the value of the yen might have. Also just because they had great sales in the US doesn't mean their sales in the rest of the world were as good.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Their fiscal year ends on March 31st... So, maybe they eked out a flat calendar year, but sales really fell off a cliff starting in October.. So, half of their fiscal year will fall from October on....

    In other words, when all the figures come in, I think you'll find they will be in a similar situation to all the others... They just had a big hit (Forester) early in the calendar year to pad their numbers.... The sales before April of '08 were in the previous fiscal year.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    Don't forget Subaru had a goal of 200k vehicles last year. They surpassed 2007 sales numbers but did not reach their goal. Also you have to consider what incentives they needed to move those vehicles in this market. When you are selling less than 200k units, incentives and rebates have a larger toll on your profits.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester led their sales and had no incentives, though.

    Also, January sales are out and Subaru was up 8%.

    The 2009 Forester came out in late March, early April, so I'll be curious to see sales in April, when we start to compare the same new models.
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