Nissan Murano vs Toyota Highlander vs Subaru B9 Tribeca vs Honda Pilot

ateixeira · January 2008

Did you see the new Pilot concept at NAIAS?

You might miss the boring old design. The new one is hideous.

stever · January 2008

The reception does seem lukewarm:

steve_, "2009 Honda Pilot" #332, 29 Jan 2008 7:49 am

carchatnj · February 2008

I am just starting my SUV search and am interested in the 08 Highlander, 09 Murano, and 08 Pilot. I have never owned an SUV, so am not sure which would be the best option for a "first timer." I have read reviews and see that most people love the 08 Highlander. I love the look of that and the new Murano, but see that the Murano has very limited interior storage space and some major blind spots. I'm not quite sold on the Pilot, and am really just considering it because I know Honda makes great vehicles and it's relatively reasonably priced. Does anyone have any advice? Or suggestions on comparable SUV's that I should consider? I would also be interested in finding out how much people have paid for these vehicles in the NJ area. Thanks!

ateixeira · February 2008

Since you seem to be just getting started, my suggestion would be to go to the Philadelphia auto show, which starts this week.

There you can sample them all back to back, without any pressure from salesmen.

Test fit each one, see how seat comfort is, check out cargo room, visibility, etc. Take your time doing so.

Narrow it down to your top few choices, then test drive those.

Sample the Tribeca and the Veracruz while you're at it, both have nice interiors.

ateixeira · February 2008

Pardon my long delay in finding a source, but I finally found the video that shows that the VDC AWD system used by Subaru can send enough power to any single wheel to keep it moving up a ramp in simulated no-traction scenarios:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE&feature=related

Pretty amazing at any price point, even more so at Subaru's prices.

jeffmc · February 2008

Nice find, juice. Chelentano won't accept it, though, since it's not from a neutral source. Consumer Reports should set up this test to evaluate manufacturers' claims and systems... it's not a complicated or cost-prohibitive experiment.

morey000 · February 2008

There are better off road vehicles out there than a tribeca, but not among the CUV class. I wouldn't put my 'Beca up against an FJ Cruiser, H3 or even a Jeep Grand Cherokee. But, I've gone up some 4WD roads with it and have been very very impressed with the Tribeca's capabilities-even with the mediocre stock tires.

If better off road traction is what you're looking for, the Subie's certainly have an advantage.

ateixeira · February 2008

Well, if you watch it, ignore the marketing schpeal they dole out. I don't even necessarily agree with the reasons they some fail and some succeed (symmetry? huh?).

And they could have rigged the test for the competitors to fail. For example: that performed like a FWD CR-V, LOL.

But...what it does prove is that even a basic Forester X, priced under $20 grand, has a good enough AWD system to distribute enough power between front and rear axles to pass the front-to-rear test.

The VDC system goes a step further and can send enough power side-to-side, to any given wheel.

They can't rig that test. VDC makes it up, clear as day.

So rather than wait for a rebuttle, instead I'll challenge Mitsubishi fans to show me an Outlander (or Endeavor) that can make it up one of those ramps. The proof is in the pudding.

Remember, despite all the acronyms, C&D rated it in last place among compact crossovers in the off road portion of the test. So simple challenge - prove them wrong.

chelentano · February 2008

Still you did not show any evidence to support your claim that Subaru AWD system would be capable of "100% power transfer to either axle".

You post another Subaru marketing video and you call it a "proof"? I cant even see if that CR-V has rear wheels spinning: it could be very well a 2WD version of CR-V. There are so many other ways to stage that test. Not just me, but a lot of people on Youtube doubt the authenticity of that video. The last party I would trust is a car salesman.

But if you like marketing videos, I have got some.

Lancer AWD vs. Lamborghini AWD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQDWXviuFM

Mitsubishi Pajero AWD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkMjhzv_zzE

Two Outlander videos in snow. If you ever driven a car in a heavy snow, you could tell that this Outlander AWD performance is impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3arUMr2PsI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt0j38JJBA&feature=related

morey000 · February 2008

Chelentano,
Sure- marketing videos may be biased to favor their brand. But I don't buy your accusation that the whole thing was rigged. (by using a 2WD CRV)

I've taken my Tribeca on some reasonably hairy 4WD roads and have been quite impressed.

If that video isn't significant evidence that Subaru's symmetrical AWD VTD system doesn't transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel- I don't know what is. But, regardless, the Tribeca is pretty dang good off road. Just ask anyone who's ever take one there.

chelentano · February 2008

>> Sure- marketing videos may be biased to favor their brand.

Yea, marketing is biased by nature.
.

>> I've taken my Tribeca on some reasonably hairy 4WD roads and have been quite impressed.

You should make a video then. I'd love to see in in heavy snow.
.

>> If that video isn't significant evidence that Subaru's symmetrical AWD VTD system doesn't transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel- I don't know what is.

Yea, I also don't know what is evidence. Nothing really. There is no Subaru offroad rally wins, no independent tests to prove that. Even the official Subaru site does not state that it can transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel. So far it's more like wishfull thinking.
.

>> But, regardless, the Tribeca is pretty dang good off road. Just ask anyone who's ever take one there.

It may be good, why not. But it does not appear to be the best

nmsg · February 2008

carchatnj,
What major blind spots do you see in the 09 Murano? I was interested in the Murano and trying to find out what other people have to say about it. thx.

carchatnj · February 2008

I haven't had an opportunity to test drive the new Murano, but I know the 08 and older models have major blind spots out the back...I believe because the window is so small and curved.

ateixeira · February 2008

There is no Subaru offroad rally wins

Oh gosh, where do I start?

Ever heard of WRC? The Kenya rally? It's off road, all right.

That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. I have to laugh.

ateixeira · February 2008

So no Mitsubishi Outlander has ever passed the ramp test, then?

I guess you give up, then?

Why not call around and take your Outlander to a local 4x4 event, they have those ramps. Bring a video camera.

Don't worry I don't expect an answer from you, even if you do go. :P

My challenge was for you to prove the Outlander's AWD could do that, and you come back with a cool yet completely irrelevant video of an EVO and a Pajero.

Driving in snow is fun, but we're talking about power transfer under frictionless conditions, so neither of those videos qualifies. We're talking ICE, not snow. Still irrelevant.

You can continue to live in denial about Subaru having phenomenal AWD systems for the vehicles in this class, with video proof for those who have open eyes to see.

ateixeira · February 2008

this Outlander AWD performance is impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3arUMr2PsI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt0j38JJBA&feature=related

In the first one he nearly gets stuck at around 15-18 seconds.

Also, he never comes to a full stop, instead relying on forward momentum to keep going.

On the 2nd one, at about 1:35 it shows the Outlander plowing the snow from a lack of ground clearance.

Also, in at least two spots on the video you can tell the front wheels are spinning a lot faster than the rear, note the rooster tail of snow.

Fun videos but let's see one on that ramp.

Seriously, take yours to a local 4x4 event. It would be very revealing. In theory it should be capable, given the lock button and the traction control, so go for it!

ateixeira · February 2008

Still you did not show any evidence to support your claim that Subaru AWD system would be capable of "100% power transfer to either axle".

Pay closer attention to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE&feature=related

At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

At 3:08, the AWD system shifts power to the front axle, and the rear axle never even begins spinning. Again, there is no traction control, so we have 100% power transfer to the front axle.

There's your proof.

For 2009 models traction and stability control were made standard, which would aid in side-to-side power transfer. The Tribeca always had it.

joeyjoejoe · February 2008

I was researching the exact same vehicles before deciding on the Pilot finally. I was getting much better offers for the Value Package AWD Pilot compared to the base models of all other vehicles. The dealers seemed much more willing to dip into their holdback at Honda also. I suppose I was fairly partial to Honda's from prior experience, so that helped. As word of warning, the "compare" option for most of the vehicles seem to leave out or mislabel a few features from each competitor. That can be expected, however. Just use sites like Consumer Reports or Edmunds to get a full comparison.

As far as looks go, the Pilot is definitely not the hottest daughter. I think it still looks rugged, and somewhat refined. I wasn't looking for all the bells and whistles though. Just a basic, three row SUV to keep my family safe and not give me much trouble in the long haul. My personal opinion (and that of Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, and a few others) went to the Pilot. Resale value should be great as with most of these vehicles. Just my $0.02. Cheers!

tifighter · February 2008

Nice work; the Pilot is an excellent buy right now...

ateixeira · February 2008

Congrats.

Having seen the concept for the upcoming Pilot, I'd say yours looks a whole lot better.

Most the reactions I heard from others was similar - not an improvement at all.

chelentano · February 2008

The vast majority of WRC is not off-road. The Monte Carlo segment, where the Subaru won, was on finest French roads.

The Kenya Safari Rally - yes. That's a good example of off-road rally. Subaru won 4 times - good job, but Mitsubishi won there 8 times - great job! Dakar Rally: Subaru 0, Mitsu 12! Are you still laughing? I guess I got the best laugh :--)

chelentano · February 2008

>>So no Mitsubishi Outlander has ever passed the ramp test, then?

Marketing video does not qualify as test.
.

>>Why not call around and take your Outlander to a local 4x4 event, they have those ramps. Bring a video camera.

Why not to take your Forester through the snow.
.

>>My challenge was for you to prove the Outlander's AWD could do that, and you come back with a cool yet completely irrelevant video of an EVO and a Pajero.

Your marketing videos are just as irrelevant as my marketing videos  thats my point.
.

>>Driving in snow is fun, but we're talking about power transfer under frictionless conditions, so neither of those videos qualifies. We're talking ICE, not snow. Still irrelevant.

We are not talking ice. You are talking ice. Im talking snow.

>>You can continue to live in denial about Subaru having phenomenal AWD systems for the vehicles in this class, with video proof for those who have open eyes to see.

Subaru has good AWD system, but not the best. Your marketing video is not a proof.

chelentano · February 2008

>>In the first one he nearly gets stuck at around 15-18 seconds.
Also, he never comes to a full stop, instead relying on forward momentum to keep going.

First you complain that it stops, than you complain that it does not. Could you make up your mind?
.

>>On the 2nd one, at about 1:35 it shows the Outlander plowing the snow from a lack of ground clearance.

Amazing that Outlander easily gets through as much snow, as it has ground clearance! And the Outlander has more ground clearance then Forester. What your Forester would do in this snow?

>>Seriously, take yours to a local 4x4 event. It would be very revealing. In theory it should be capable, given the lock button and the traction control, so go for it!

I would if I find one.

chelentano · February 2008

>>At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

Nope. The 2008 Forester DOES have traction control standard
(may be not in Brazil though :--): http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?op=2&tab=features&maxv- - - - - ehicles=5&basestyleid=100887346&styleid=100920113&styleid=100962664&vehicleindex- - - - - =2&removestyle=100962664

So your marketing video could be just a nice trick.

tifighter · February 2008

Weird.

I don't see the Forester or the Outlander listed in this topic.

So...anyhow...

samiam_68 · February 2008

Really guys, please take this elsewhere. Where are those ever-watchful hosts... :sick:

stever · February 2008

I'll go page Tidester. :shades:

I don't see that any of these rigs are really trail ready anyhoo - they may be fine for getting to the ski hill, but Moab?

ateixeira · February 2008

Sorry, guys, I'm not trying to stray off topic. I'm specifically discussing Subaru's AWD systems, including the Tribeca. The Outlander is not in this thread, but its AWD system is being compared to the Tribeca's, which is.

Why not to take your Forester through the snow

I did that plenty of times, it was a ball. My family grew and I needed a lot more space so I replaced the Forester with a minivan. No more fun in the snow, the van can't hold a candle to what the Subaru could do, so....

We are now shopping for my wife and I will look at another Subaru. I will consider an Outlander but I'd like to see if it can pass the ramp test, i.e. if the AWD is truly capable of distributing power to each wheel, enough to get it to climb in those slippery scenarios.

Personally, we've owned one Mitsu and 2 Subarus, and had a better experience with the Subarus, but I'm open minded.

I could care less that you dismiss those videos. I certainly don't. To me they prove the AWD system simply works.

I wish you'd be up to the challenge and take your Outlander on such a ramp, then at least I'd know if it is as capable as you claim. Go for it, why not? What are you afraid of? :confuse:

You are talking ice. Im talking snow

Yes, because your video really says more about the tires. A Mustang with studded tires could do that. The ramps test the AWD system, not the tires.

The 2009 Forester has more clearance than the Outlander, and those are the models I'm cross-shopping, among others.

2008 Forester DOES have traction control standard

Nope, that's a different model, the XT Sports has VDC, but the one on the ramp is a basic X model, with no traction control. There are many ways you can tell - the lack of a hood scoop (not a turbo), the wheels, the mirrors are smaller, and a few other differences.

Doesn't really matter because the Forester test is only measuring front to rear AWD distribution, not side to side. It would make it up with or without traction control.

As proof, the Tribeca (which does have traction control) makes it up the ramp effortlessly.

chelentano · February 2008

I moved my responce to another thread

ironjeff · September 2009

I was pretty sold on the 09 Highlander Sport 4x4 (though I'll most likely wait for the 2010s to come out) with all the features like nav and leather etc... and then yesterday I test drove a Murano LE fully loaded and it seemed a lot more responsive in terms of steering, acceleration, and control.

I'm sort of on the fence right now because price wise they are really very similar, so I wanted to see what others have thought of the two cars, but I don't need the 3rd row of seating, I really only require AWD for going to the mountains to ski and also some room to take my dog places.

Here's what I've found:
Highlander Pros
* Bigger cargo area
* More roomy
* Better NAV/dash system
* Exterior looks nicer - more manly
* I trust toyota more as a brand for things like maintenance and quality.

Murano Pros
* Interior seems nicer, more luxurious
* The acceleration seems better ( same engine, but seems lighter )
* The rear camera has lines that show you how far things are away.

Is this consistent with what others have seen? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.

jayrider · September 2009

If cargo space is a big concern then opt for the highlander. The rest is more subjective than objective.

scottgb · September 2009

I just went through the same comparison you did, and ended up buying a loaded Murano SL AWD. I've had nothing but Toyota's for the past 15 years, and the Murano just felt better to me. The Highlander is nice, but the interior left me cold. Good luck in your decision, I don't think you'll go wrong with either one.

ateixeira · September 2009

I don't like that the HL's 3rd row doesn't split fold, but that's not an issue for you.

If the Nissan felt better, you should pick that. :shades:

morey000 · December 2009

Certainly no bad choices in this bunch, and your pro/con list is right on.
One thing that I'd add is that you can actually take the Tribeca off road. The AWD system is far superior in poor traction conditions, dirt AND snow. The Murano is probably the best road feel/handling of them. Also the best looking.

iomatic · March 2010

in various combinations of snow, dirt, racing. And in racing, you can translate a lot of learned information and physics to the more mundane driving world.

All the silly armchair analyses here miss a couple things:

a) it's not the car that wins these WRC examples, it's actually drumroll the driver/team.
b) it's the tires
c) and then it's the suspension, body-weight ratio, and finally, maybe of the least importance: AWD/4WD system.

You give me the above, say, caged, prepped Ford Fiesta with FWD, and you take a big, fat SUV with summer tires, dual-zone aircon, seat heaters, chrome bumper and blingy wheels on a dirt road, and I'm pretty sure I'd win. Heck, my preteen kids would handily beat you.

So we ended up with a Highlander because 90% of the time it's pavement, and the rest is dirt, mud and snow. We thought the Land Rover Discovery would be overkill.

Love,
io :P

ateixeira · March 2010

Well, the driver is the same (you), and all the tires here are probably M+S rated, so the difference on the road will end up being (c) above.

Nissan Murano vs Toyota Highlander vs Subaru B9 Tribeca vs Honda Pilot

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