Pontiac GTO v. Subaru STi

ateixeira · November 2005

Probably because insurance companies and law enforcement have begun to target street racers and even cars that have that look.

They already target muscle cars.

-juice

shrink2 · January 2006

there's not much mention of one major difference, 2doors vs 4. The GTO wasn't on my radar 'cuz I knew it'd be a bear getting a car seat through a 2 door opening. I must be in a small demographic...

m382 · January 2006

Ok first of all why would someone be retarded enough to compare a TWO DOOR GTO to a FOUR DOOR STi. Apparently the similarities are endless. I guess since they both are performance oriented they are alike? I HAVE an STi, and I HAVE driven a GTO. They are light years apart, and just as close are they similar. A better comparison would be between a M45 and a Land Rover Sport. I personally don't find the GTO appealing. It's basically a Grand Prix "GT." The STi does more things well than does the GTO. Handling, braking, slalom TOTAL performance considered for me it's a no brainer. The interior on the GTO is nicer no question (aside the cheap GM plastics), but then again as people on this forum have stated over and over...the STi was meant to do one thing and one thing only RACE...it's not a tourer or a luxury car, so don't complain when you realize it isn't one. I don't realy have anything against the GTO, I just don't like a "performance tuned Grand Prix" (anyone who knows the real GTO knows this isn't one, not on this body setup). It's an ok car, but doesn't merit a comparison to a completely different car...that being the STi. Compare it to a Mustang...which with everything considered (cost and all) it would lose to.

ateixeira · January 2006

M45 and a Land Rover

OK, that made me laugh out loud.

It's basically a Grand Prix "GT."

Nothing could be further from the truth. GP is FWD, and it's not even the same platform at all. They really have nothing in common but the badge.

-juice

s200087 · January 2006

right because sarcasm wasn't the intended purpose of that. You're right, they really dont have much in common internally (they look a like though), aside from the fact that the GTO looks like a watered down town cruiser with dual exhaust. I'm sorry, chrome tips and some APC nose flares doesn't make a car "bad [non-permissible content removed]" or different. Their intended purpose was to create a performance car and resurect the heritage of present GTO's....what they did was create a passenger car that Pontiac lovers could only have dreamed for...kinda missed on the GTO part. I hear Buick is coming out with the new Grand National and I hear it resembles the Regal....

sensai · January 2006

Apparantely you missed the part that the original GTO was just a Tempest with a big engine slapped in it. That is what made it a "bad [non-permissible content removed]" car. Same with the new GTO, although unlike the old one it is a very comfortable cruiser and a good handler too. I wish some of you people would do a little research before posting some of this crap.

dclark2 · January 2006

I ended up with the GTO. There is nothing cheap about the plastic, what little there is.
Both cars are great. I found the Sti uncomfortable- I just couldn't see myself driving for long stretches. Also, the GTO had a much nicer interior. Lastily, gto is cheaper to insure.Other than that, yeah, the Sti is a great car.If I was 20 years younger, it probably would have been in my garage,instead of the gto. I thought about the performance of the sti and frankly, I don't think that most of my driving would give the car it's due. My idea of fun in an sti would be to throw some studded tires on it and go for a nice ride around Lake Tahoe after a good snowfall, but then that's me!
To me, a sports car is any vehicle that has a fully independent suspension, excellent braking and a good power to weight ratio.It doesn't matter how many doors it has.
Funny thing- I am shopping for an awd vehicle for my wife. She wants a crv, this thread reminded me of how nice it would be to have an Sti next to a GTO in my garage. Won't happen, but it is nice to dream...

ateixeira · January 2006

My suggestion?

Put her in a Forester XT, it's a de-tuned version of the same engine in the STI. A lot of fun in a practical package.

In C&D's 50th Anniversary Edition issue, they listed the Forester XT as quicker than a Lamborghini Countache 5000S.

Also try a RAV4 V6 or a Saturn Vue Redline. If she's set on a Honda product, wait for the Acura RD-X, it should be more fun.

-juice

dclark2 · January 2006

She doesn't like the way the Forester looks. I thought the same thing- get that turbo'd forrester!I have always wanted to own a sube as well. Oh well.
We did drive the Vue. Great motor, but comparably equipped, it is $1,000 more than the crv and has way crappier resale and repair history. Plus the CRV has stability control and more room. Don't think me to down on GM (I own two of their vehicles) but I was disappointed in the features and quality of the vue. The quality of the Vue, compared to the sube I drove a few months ago was... it wasn't even close.
The new Rav4? The v6 version isn't here yet, but on paper it looks incredible! However, the dealers here are asking (and probably getting) above list for the four bangers.
The nearest acura dealer is 200 miles away, so that kind of rules that out (actually, our local Honda dealer could do warranty work on it for that reason, but it is a bit of a hassle).

s200087 · January 2006

Sensai apparantly you missed the point that was being made basically stating the older GTO actually LOOKED the part. The new GTO although a nice car in general, to me wouldn't be my first choice on looks for a 400hp perfomance tuned car...there is no research needed to deduct an opinion, because that is in fact why there is a difference between fact....and opinion. But if you want facts, if you look at just about every automotive critique on the car the cons don't lie in the performance, its the STYLING...particularly the exterior. "GTO sales have been much lower than Pontiac's already modest initial projections. Industry experts blame the car's understated style, particularly in its exterior design. And that's a point worth noting, with how little was done to the car's soft, 1990s styling in the rush to build a "GTO."-and that my friend came from GM in an interview...fact

s200087 · January 2006

Oh and for the record, I'm not a hater. I don't have anything against the GTO, for all of those on this forum that own them, congrats because it is a beast! I'm just stating my opinion that the car isn't for me, and that I think the looks deserved a little more thought...and GM feels the same notingly so. Nonetheless, if you find the car appealing it's truly a gem.

ateixeira · January 2006

The first couple of V6 models have trickled in, people have been reporting seeing them.

Oh well, let her choose, you don't want the burden of picking something for her.

-juice

usmc0369 · January 2006

I have owed an old muscle car and I now own a 2.5XT Outback (Not quite an STI). I like both. People give the original muscle cars way to much hype. They all started out as cheap 2-door cars with big engines stuck in it. They were made to go fast in a strait line. Even there purposely built muscle in the late 60's were strait liners. They all handled and braked like crap. My station wagon will run circles around a 426 Hemi Road Runner all day every day. But that was not the point. You bet your butt, if I could afford a Road Runner I would have one. Most cars today will out handle and perform the cars of the 60's. As for the 19 year old wanna-be. I am sure you did all that. Did the Vettes know (Or care) they were racing. Hell, I've past Ferrari's on I-5 in my '95 F150 (300 I-6 W/5-speed manual)Does that mean my trucks faster (Top speed 95mph downhill)? If my son drove his truck like you say you drive your car, he would not have it for too long. Maybe Daddy needs to take your keys away.

jontyrees · January 2006

"in the rush to build a "GTO."-and that my friend came from GM in an interview...fact"

I think you might be missing the point here...The current GTO wasn't developed as a GTO, there was no rush to build a GTO at all. It was developed and is built in Australia as a Monaro - a name plate that dates back to the 60's, and was an Australian semi-equivalent to the Camaros and Firebirds in the US at that time. GM decided to import a limited number of them to the US, and slapped a GTO name on it. Was that a bad call? Apparently, since so many people seem offended by it. Personally, I couldn't care less what they call it - it's an excellent car, fast and comfortable, handles well if not with razor sharp reflexes, great build quality. Styling is totally subjective - I like it. STi owners probably like the styling of that car, which goes to show that beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!

I think the comparisons are valid, even if there is a 2x differential in number of doors, etc. Approx $30k fast cars both - certainly likely to be cross shopped by some folks. I know it crossed my mind.

usmc0369 · January 2006

Skip the forester go for the 2.5XT Outback more balls than the forester. I bought the outback for a similar reason you bought the GTO. I really wanted a F250 4X4, but I would only be thrashing it about a few times a year, not financially worth it. Granted, I won't be doing that in the Outback, but at least I can go down some logging trails and through some mud when I am camping.

dclark2 · January 2006

What a car! I loved the horn that went "beep, beep!". It was a cammed out 440 with a six pack and airgrabber. I think the crude suspension made it feel faster.
Floor it and the car would twist from tq. However, stock, most of those muscle cars were unable to do better than a 15 sec 1/4. Crude suspensions and tires were to blame.
Time has made made some think these cars were better than they are. If the new GTO were truly like the old, it would have a poor handling solid axle rear, rough ride, bad brakes and maybe even some "Judge" stickers on it. Sadly, if it had all those, it'll probably be more popular!
I got a few negative comments from the "purists" when I got my '96 Impala ("they should have kept it to two doors!") I remember telling one knob that if they did that, the car would require extra tooling and an extra assembly line which would increase the car by $1,000s. The answer was "So what? They should have made it with two doors!"
Flash back to 2006- any GTO can waste a '60's car. Heck, even the Sti can do it, despite having two extra doors!

jeff_gto · March 2006

I just joined the forum and prior to purchasing the gto, I read the comparison. I'm not replying to this note as much as the comparison itself.
I have the 2006 with the bigger brakes and styling enhancements. Not sure if the comparison was with a 2005.
Anyway, I think like other folks say; it comes down to personal preference. The 2006 gto is just awesome (from my view). I've driven the sti and yes it's fun. But, to me it looks like a box with an ironing board on the back. It also is not very comfortable. GTO just hauls butt with that L2 corvette motor. They got the sound just right too; throaty and powerful but not too loud for everyday driving.
It is very comfortable to drive, handles great in turns and I note the difference with the independent suspension over bumpy roads.
Regarding the subdued styling...I like it. It looks sharp but not gaudy or tacky; a sleeper, not a cop-magnet.

ateixeira · March 2006

GM will discontinue it, they've announced. We'll see if it comes back in another form. They will have a RWD platform since the Camaro got a green light.

-juice

dclark2 · March 2006

GM announced a few days ago that the GTO will be back, on the same zeta platform as the Camaro. However, it sounds like the Firebird will not return.
This was reported by autoweek on 3/2/06.
http://www.gtoforum.com/showthread.php?t=6730

cmcmanus · May 2006

So I've been researching into buying a new GTO (or used rather since I can get one with practically no miles for 10k less). I want an 05 with the LS2. With 400hp stock it's hard to imagine what Pontiac would do to turn that into a judge, i mean how ballsy do you need a car to be? But in 04 they made one.....sort of. The GTO Ram Air 6 was a one off concept that was designed to get a lot of buzz around the concept model during it's debut. The Ram Air 6 was a naturally aspirated 6.4litre V8 with a working ram air hood and custom air intake producing 575hp! (That's more than the most powerful Saleen Mustang GT wich is quad turbo charged @ 550hp)!! It also had an incredibly aggressive look compared to the stock model and the beautiful Judge orange color. Now I'm a fan of the subtle lines that the GTO (Holden/Vauxhaul)has. It's not aggressive like a saleen mustang or new sharp edged Charger. However the 400 raging hormonal horses underneath speak for themselves, even a 5.7 Hemi can't hold up to the raw power of a GTO and a Mustang GT is more like a ponycar in comparasin. I hope like heck the GTO is here to stay, even a Judge version would be great. However if you want your GTO to look more like the beast it is, there are body kits and special hoods out there (even one that has ram air scoops that resemble the classic Judge)to give your humble styled GTO some extra sexy lines. Hey a supercharger would also kick some butt.........you know if you need to race any Ferraris or anything. But an STi...why don't we compare the GTO to something a little more manly than a Subaru, like a 10 speed bicycle. (Just kidding by the way, but there is no way you can seriosly compare apples to oranges.) :shades:

cmcmanus · May 2006

Oh and by the way. GM did do a concept version of the GTO before deciding to go with the (Holden/Vauxhal) Monaro as the basis. If you ever feel inclined Google GTO Concept to find out more.

elias · May 2006

gto vs sti is a bit of a weird comparison but you can bet that wrx & goat drivers are indeed comparing!
one thing i miss in my goat compared to my previous 4 Z28s is the near-30 mpg highway mileage. goat cannot do that, 24 mpg is the max and 21 mpg more typical.
i understand the sti can at least do 25 mpg highway - can it do 28+ mpg like the standard-trans fourth-gen f-body cars could do at 75 mph or so?
also do some STI drivers hate the STI rear spoiler as much as some of us goat drivers hate/remove our goats spoilers?

ateixeira · May 2006

Subaru will have an 07 STI Limited model, with a very subtle single spoiler on the rear deck. The double-decker ironing board is gone as is the roof vane spoiler. You may prefer that one.

As for manliness, is this not manly? :confuse:

-juice

rorr · May 2006

What's manly about a 4-door?

Now, make it a 2-door coupe, add some more scoops in the area just in front of the rear wheels, maybe some winglets in the front valence, another scoop on the roof, a bi-winglet over the rear window, a taller hood scoop, and maybe 2-3 more antennae scattered around.......THEN it'd be manly!!!

Oh, and lots more vinyl graphics. And paint-it day glo lime green. And maybe an underbody light kit. And the fenders need to stick out more. And it needs quad 18" subwoofers that go 'whoompa whoompa whoompa' to drown out the noise of that thing under the hood..... :P

ateixeira · May 2006

Every single thing on that car is functional.

Even the sponsor graphics. :P

-juice

rorr · May 2006

I bet I could call 75% of the junk in a J.C. Whitney catalog 'functional' in one sense or another too. That doesn't mean one should slather all that junk all over a car at the same time.

Personally, that STi is (in my eyes) the definition of 'boy racer'.

If one strips all the extraneous geegaws off of a car (any car), and the car has no style in it's basic form, then adding all that junk doesn't make the car any better.

I suppose one could cram a dozen scoops/spoilers/wings/etc. on a GTO as well. Would it be a better car for it?

ateixeira · May 2006

Many would say yes. The original style was very dull, many folks complained. Very bland, I recall one editor called it "sucked on caramel".

They added the hood scoops and for the most part people felt it was an improvement. Not enough, but better.

The STI is a tribute to the WRC car, the people that want to buy it understand that. A few actually brought their spoilers to Miller Subaru for Petter Solberg to sign when the '06 model debuted.

Like I mentioned above, the STI Limited arrives this fall, significantly toned down for folks like you that want a cleaner look.

And while the GTO has 2 doors, it's still more of a 2 door sedan, not exactly adding the sleekness one expects when they sacrifice the 2 extra doors.

-juice

rorr · May 2006

"The STI is a tribute to the WRC car, the people that want to buy it understand that."

Yes. The point (I think I had one) is that not everyone thinks that a plethera of spoilers (functional or otherwise) is desirable.

"Like I mentioned above, the STI Limited arrives this fall, significantly toned down for folks like you that want a cleaner look."

I like a cleaner look. But I also want a car to have style simply from the basic lines of the car; not tacked on. Personally, the style of the GTO isn't my cup of tea either.

ateixeira · May 2006

DOH!

I guess your point was to frustrate me. It worked.

-juice

rorr · May 2006

LOL!

Welllllll, not entirely.... :P

I just like to check up on what gets posted in this train-wreck of a topic occasionally....some of the stuff is VERY humorous.

cmcmanus · May 2006

Notice that instead of having a raised spoiler it's got the more apealing molded one. Also the extended fenders make it look a lot more muscular. This is what the GTO should look like.

ateixeira · May 2006

Coincidentally, that's pretty much how the one on the STI Limited looks.

Here is Edmunds' coverage, though the photo doesn't show any part of the changes. :confuse:

-juice

ateixeira · May 2006

06stiown3r · May 2006

I am 29 years old with a wife, 3 children and a dog. I own a 2006 STi. Why you ask? Because I'm not a fan of ASSCAR! I mean NASCAR.. I'm not saying the GTO isn't cool or whatever, just that if your going to buy a car for performance it should come as a complete package. Not just go fast in a straight line with minimal cornering. The STi is voted as one of the top ten cars of 2006 in Car & Driver as "the" most fun car to drive for 2006. Nuff said.

Get a life you old people who are trying to seperate yourselves from the younger generation so you can justify your poor choice in automobiles... :lemon:

Marc

elias · May 2006

pretty harsh there, 06stiown3r.
it won't be long before someone is casting a stone at you for being old and trying whatever to separate yourself from those who are younger. i'm not saying the STI isn't cool or whatever, just that it is so boy-racerish that it is especially embarassing for us old bald guys to drive.
that picture a couple posts ago, the one with the subdued looking wingless STI, that's MUCH BETTER for us geezers who prefer "sleeper" vehicles. on the other hand, the GTO gets an absurd amount of attention on the road despite my attempts to sleeper-ize it by replacing 3 of the GTO badges/rear-bumper-cover with the Holden parts (side marker lights, flat black bottom rear bumper cover). removing the rear wing is probably my next & final sleeperization attempt, once i can arrange that with the local body shop. i'll probably keep the vented hood even though it does annoy me.

rsholland · May 2006

I'm 61, bald and drive a black '06 WRX Limited wagon, 5-speed. Geezers like to have fun too.

Bob

elias · May 2006

hi Bob - i'd probably drive a GTO wagon if Holden offered those! wagons are the ultimate sleepers. too bad we can't get the STI as a wagon - i might look at one of those. were there ever STI or sTI or sTi or STi or STi or StI wagons?

rsholland · May 2006

Rumor has it we may(?) get an STI wagon for '08, when we get an all-new Impreza. If so, If it happens, I would expect it in Limited trim only.

Bob

ateixeira · May 2006

They'd start with this:

A bit dull, but it would be pretty roomy. I'm sure they'd only consider making one off the next generation GTO.

Closest thing to that now is the Dodge Magnum SRT-8.

-juice

fisherboy · May 2006

First, I am 43 with 2 kids and wife. Second, I drive an 06 OBP STI. If you like to drive, not just accelerate (btw, the sti does that very well) this car cannot be touched for the $ (i discount evo's as they break allot!). Factor in I live in new england and I have a yr around sports car that can hold my family and is at a price point I will drive through the winter and not worry about. I did not like the spoiler, it is growing on me. But at 43, I really do not care what other people think. If the (functional) spoiler bothers me to much i will put on the trunk of limited or wrx.

And up here, that GTO (or replace any other high HP rear wheel drive - was stongly considering the CTS-V)will get smoked every day of rain or snow by an sti. On dry days it is up to the drivers.

rorr · May 2006

Well, given the fact that you have a family of 4, deal with rain or snow on a fairly regular basis, and live in prime Suburu country (New England), I'm totally blown away that you would prefer the 4-door AWD Subie.

sensai · May 2006

I ran Dunlop M3s on my GTO, and it handled the snow just fine here in Wisconsin, including a couple 8 inch snowfalls we had. Really, is it a great thing you could "smoke" a GTO in rain or snow? It is that kind of thinking that would explain why 80% of the vehicles I saw in a ditch were AWD or 4WD...

By the way, do I need to post the Top Gear lap times again that have the STI and the GTO neck and neck? The GTO handles quite well in most situations. Sure it would get smoked on a rally track by an STI, but I can live with that for the much smoother ride it provides.

ozman62 · May 2006

Bob said, "I'm 61, bald and drive ..." C'mon Bob, I thought you had a helmet... :P
Owen

rsholland · May 2006

Well, at least it's not a rug.

Bob

elias · May 2006

hey there fisheroldboy. i think your spoiler is not functional unless you are well over 100 mph. personally i don't find anyplace on public roads in USA properly suitable for speeds over 100 mph, even in the middle of nowhere. although i might say different if i ever drive the GTO truly in the middle of nowhere/wyoming/I-80, that sort of place.
do you run snow tires on your STI during winter? separate rims for those? what kind/size wheels & tires for snows?
i used to drive Z28s during winter with snowtires and did enjoy out-accelerating the AWDs/4WDs away from snowy stoplights.

midwesttrader · May 2006

About 400 posts ago someone said this topic was ridiculous...they're still correct.

innerware · June 2006

How can one compare an STI with a GTO (monaro where I come from). Guys they are 2 totally different separate cars. The GTO is a 2+2 Coupe with much potential to improve it's handling, performance or brakes if you choose. The base car is great and very comfortable and does all its asked of it. I've only driven a few WRX's as my wife wanted one not long ago. I loved the things! Great handling, great stopping and no doubt better mileage than the GTO but you know what? Ugly body, way too square for me, my opinion only guys but really, it don't even resemble a sports car. At least the GTO has 2 doors. I've had mine now since 2002 with no major issues. I've upgraded the computer, diff ratios, exhaust and today just had the brakes upgraded. I'll never sell it.. (maybe I really like the new Dodge Challenger concept) It's now a 12.5 sec car and should stop better. Sure it's not a Ferrari but lets compare Apples with Apples- WRX v BMW M3

unctarheel1 · June 2006

production for the GTO is over, while subaru is revamping it's whole lineup...the people, the numbers, and the stats have spoken, STi wins

ohh and also subaru as a company has a future, the same can not be said for GM

tallica1 · June 2006

I am a big fan of Subaru and own an STi, I'm also a big fan of Holdens/HSV's and american GTO's, so I am not biast when it comes to who's the winner out of the STi or the GTO. But I'd have to say you can't compare the two...they are totally different cars so there how can you state "STi wins"??? Wins in what? a 1/4 mile drag? a rally? a race around a track?

ohh and also GM BOUGHT 20% OF FHI (Fuji Heavy Industries) who make Subaru's in 1999, I don't know how you figure GM has no future. I'm betting your one of the guys that disrespects V8's haha silly boy.

dstew1 · June 2006

GM sold their share of FHI last year because they desperately needed the cash...

Pontiac GTO v. Subaru STi

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