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Acura TL vs Lexus IS 350
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Comments
That is NOT how you spell "IS" :P
I am going to wait for the GS350 (AWD) but in the interim I am also looking at the Audi A6 (4.2), the BMW 530 (xi) and also the Infiniti's M35 (AWD) but they need to re-do the taillights on this before I even consider it.
If Acura make major upgrades to their TL (drivetrian especially) and RL then I will definitly add them to my short list.
So for now, take it easy with the Lexus bashing because in a few months, the only thing you are going to be seeing while driving your TL (not the beasty Porsche)is the tail pipes of my GS 350.:)
So it sounds like you are going the route of AWD? If that's the case, I'm not going to concede anything to the tailpipes of a GS350 just yet, compared to my TL 6-speed. I had an RL loaner several months ago, and that extra weight (and automatic transmission) made for rather unimpressive acceleration. Perhaps Lexus will fare better with their slightly more powerful engine, but AWD is a lot of extra weight.
Sure you don't want to go for a 550i 6-speed with extra winter tires? That would certainly shut me up until I figured out a way to trade the TL for an M5
I live in Connecticut so AWD fits my life style, I don't want an SUV so that is why I am opting for the AWD sedans.
The 550i is nice but it is out of my price range for this year.Another thing is, I dont want a RWD car,all that winter tire stuff is a myth.
I work with a lot of wealthy individuals and they all complain about their car been useless in the snowy seasons.
But of course they all have alternative high end SUV's.
If I move to Califonia or Florida, RWD vehicles will be top priority for me.
I've never owned a Lexus, but I would venture to guess the costs are similar -- neither of them should require much out-of-warranty repairs.
I guess the trick to owning a BMW or one of the other Euro brands is to never get stuck with one out of warranty! :P
I witnessed that there was variation of the maintenance cost among the Acura dealers.
I believe that the cost of scheduled maintainence is more expensive for Lexus.
However, with Lexus, you will know what you get is what you pay for. In almost every detail, Lexus is better than Acura in terms of service. For example, I paid $19.99 for oil change with coupon at Acura dealer. I should wait for the service in the waiting room without free soda. I made an appointment, but mostly my appointments were lost.
At Lexus, I pay $39.99 for oild change (no coupons). I don' t wait since I am provied with a loaner or a camry rental.
When I arrive at the Lexus dealer, there is a greeter who has my name on his list and guide me to the service manager for just signature (the service manage types all the documents in advance). Thus, I leave the dealer with 10 minutes. Then, I return around 6PM to pick my car up to return home.
I had 2 recalls with TL including replacing timing belt when my TL had 150 miles. Then, there were no problems. However, my friends who had 2003 or earlier TL-S had transmission problems. (Lucky for me).
With RX, I had 1 recall. However, I had several visits for various small problems (CD changer, Air Conditioner Noise (it was called 1100RPM noise), broken sun visor, rear gate noise, air suspension problem). Whenever I had these services at Lexus, they were covered by warranty and I was provided with RX or ES as a loaner car. For air suspension problem, I had to keep RX loaner car for 4 days.
I truly believe that my Lexus dealer attracts the best people in town since I saw an excellent service manager who worked at Acura dealer move to my Lexus dealer.
If you want to compare the cost, you just call the dealers and ask about 30,000 mile service or other schedule maintenance cost. They will tell you the cost.
I have had my 2003 TLS for about 4 years and only two problems- 1)Transmission replaced 2)inverter for the headlights replaced.
Other than that, the car is flawless.
Care to check out the GX470 board and see the history of "clunking transmissions" and serious drive train vibrations?
The GX470 was initially on our short list a year ago when it came time to replace our SUV. But two of our friends that had bought 2004 models had them bought back by Lexus - one after significant legal action. And of our other 3-4 friends/associates that have 2004/5 GX's, ALL of them notice some drive train vibration at certain speeds.
Don't get me wrong, I make no excuses for Acura's automatic transmission problems. I also have a friend that went through two replacements on his 2002 TL. Fortunately, my wife and I prefer manuals, so we got a 2004 TL 6-speed and it has been perfect in all respects through 21,000 miles. But I did have to do a fair amount of research to confirm that the 2005 MDX has a different, redesigned automatic transmission.
In my opinion, Lexus and Acura are comparable in product quality. Both generally very good, but neither perfect as transmission failures and the GX problems prove.
I agree with habitat, Lexus/Toyota & Acura/Honda are comparable in overall quality. There will always be a :lemon: or two in every run of a model (and who defines what constitutes an Acura or Lexus :lemon: , that lemon would probably be the best built GM car ever! :P ) Not all bad experiences will be posted about on the 'net, and one can't be sure that all posts on the 'net are truthul, either. Not to mention the squeeky wheel factor...
Full disclosure:
I drive an '05 TL. (So far) no tranny issues, no harmonic vibration, no leather issues. Yes to the faded/chalky dashboard although the dealer prettied it up at the "B" service and one rattle, also taken care of at "B" service.
There are two other TLs and an MDX in the family, no issues (tranny) to report.
Evil wife drives an '02 RX300. No real issues to date (had to replace the OEM tires around 40k, new battery a month ago), but there are a few rattles. No sludge that I'm aware of .
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
If by what you are saying is accurate ( which IMO don't think is), like changing the "honda accord into a acura tl" and then subsequently concluding that the "TL is not a luxury car," then one can also assume and conclude incorrectly that the ES330 is not a luxury car or the GX470 is not a luxury Sport-ute :confuse:
I know this board is not about comparing the ES330 and GX 470 to the TL, but please, let's draw the line with illogical and erroneous conclusions, can we?
You don't like Acura and that's your opinion. Personally, the Honda Accord IMO is a fine vehicle and if you want to compare it to a TL, then I will take that as a compliment because I drive a TL and am 100% happy with its combination of performance, luxury, power, handling & reliability.
Let's get back to comparing the two vehicles in this forum shall we?
Too bad Lexus doesn't build the IS350 with a manual gearbox, wouldn't you agree? It would make it a real contender. At least the TL can be classified as an "Entry Level Luxury PERFORMANCE Sedan" even with FWD :P What would you characterize the IS, an "Entry Level Luxury Sedan?"
The last Toyota I owned was a 1984 Supra. Not a world class sports car/GT by today's standards, but pretty damn good for 22 years ago. What the hell has happened since? Toyota has 14 models. 8 of them are trucks/SUV's and a minivan. Of the remaining 6 cars, there isn't the remotest semblance of a fun to drive, sporty car in the bunch. The Solara is more embarassing than a comb over - and appeals to the same demographic.
Lexus? 9 models. Of the 6 cars, not much better. The SC430 - Perry Como is too young to find that car exciting. The GS - looks like it wants to compete with the 5 series, but don't turn on the key or if you do, stay far away from a winding road. The ES330 - now that really is a Camry in a tuxedo. Ah, but wait, now we have the new IS. They took away the boy racer aesthetics. But then they went bipolar. Gave an underpowered engine to the 250 and put a slushbox only transmission choice in the 350. Oh, and the back seat? Exactly 4 inches less legroom than the 3-series. Why this forum even exists is puzzling. Why not the "Lexus IS350 vs. the Porsche 911S"? I can get my kids into the back of ours just as easily.
Look, in the spirit of Fox's "fair and balanced" approach to debate, I am not going to deny that Toyota/Lexus (and Honda/Acura) make mostly very high quality products. But if you are going to be so ignorant as to claim "Acura is not the equal of Lexus", I'm going to point out that at just shy of 50, you would have to put a gun to my head to get me to buy an LS430. I'm not that old that I need the automotive equivalent of Sominex.
So where are we? You're tickled pink driving an old fart's car. I'm a disgruntled driving enthusiast whose only chance at buying a Lexus faded when the GX470 didn't work out. Honda and Toyota and Lexus and Acura make the most reliable cars on the planet. Take that as the only thing we will probably ever agree on. Period.
I'm sure you meant Lexus stands alone in NA as the premier Japanese luxury brand.
I've often said Lexus is the only Japanese brand that can be mentioned in the same breath of MB, BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc. It plays in that league, even though it is still a bit shy of those other marques, in public perception, if not in execution.
On a more serious note, I personally ignore post like that, you can tell posters like that are just here to stir up emotions.
In regards to Lexus, I personally like the GS and it might possibly be my next car.However, I am going to wait for the next generation TL before I make my move.
See, Billy, I'm exercising more restraint right now.
But if the size of the IS350 is acceptable to you, I suggest comparing it also to the 330i and, if can swing it, the M3. No "Nanny control" problems with either of these and their overall performance - especially with 6-speeds - is what smiles are made for.
But in case you are....I DO OWN AN IS350! I have also owned an Acura TSX.....and the guy who works right next to me has the ASPEC version of the TL.....which by the way I have driven many...many times.....so I will say again....
IMO the STOCK stereo that comes in the IS350 when compared to the TL is WEAK at best......BUT it was not a deal breaker for me either.....that issue is an easy fixed with an after market system.....no problema for me! In the end, I chose the IS over the TL because of the pure luxury and performance features period. Since I had owned an Acura TSX the TL was to me a step up from the TSX....but the step up wasn't big enough for me....both interiors of these cars are VERY simuliar.....but the IS interior just blew them away...IMO of course.....end of story.
Oh, by the way.....if your reply was not meant for me then ignore everything I said above.....Happy Motoring!
Do you think an after-market real 6-speed manual would be "no problema".?
A friend of mine who's daughter graduated from law school looked at the IS350. Her conclusion: It's a shame that the IS350 appears to be a very attractive package, except for this fundamental flaw (auto only) that serious enthusiasts cannot overlook. (This from a 26 year old female who has only driven a stick and is going for a 330i instead).
Lexus is heavily marketing the IS350 as a performance sedan. They need to fire the bipolar executives that can't get their marketing department and engineering department on the same page.
And, while they are at it, put one in a sport tuned version of the GS430. I'll give it a gander when I'm back in the market. As of right now, there is NO Japanese alternative to the 550i 6-speed.
I agree, it was a snafu IMO that the IS250 gets a manual but not the IS350.....some lessons are hard learned.....
BMW's IMO seem to be nice cars....have never owned one....just going by what others say and what I read....but judging by the equipment you get with the BMW I would have to say that they are over priced.....the thing that kills me about BMW is the cheap feeling I get when I look in the interior's....especially the 3 series.
The exterior I love.....the interior....not so much!
But it is always in the eyes of the beholder.....I would give the BMW the styling edge for exterior.....but Lexus by far has them beat for interior luxury appointments....
This is just my .02
Peronsally i'de go for the TL as an overall package, sure it's front wheel drive but you'll be cursing RWD in the snow. Good luck with either purchase.
You are the only one who can answer that question, my friend. It is your money, needs, wants and desires...
I find the TL to be a (relatively) compelling value.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The key phrase here is "to me." And you are only correct for yourself. I, as many others, do not share your opinion. Nor does my '05 TL share any of the ills that you claim plagued yours. Others may share your opinion or experience, but that doe not affect me in the least. I'm sure the Accord EX is a compelling value for those that purchased one.
"the IS 350 is and you can see and feel the difference." And, as is your choice, you can pay for the difference.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
You've hit the nail on the head.
Soooo, you're so convinced the IS is superior to the TL though you don't even own one yet? It sure seems you talk a lot of smack for someone who has just test driven the vehicle and who has no long term experience with it. The rest of us must just be poor schmucks who couldn't afford to have the best I hope your future care lives up to your expectations - the rest of us will keep slumming... :P
Hey, you can't argue with that in that it is his opinion. The IS is better for him. Doesn't make it so for anyone else.
And, only you can define better. According to about every review I've read, the 330i is better than the IS350. digital, why aren't you getting the 330i?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Not with VDIM!
"The IS is better for him. Doesn't make it so for anyone else."
If I were you, I would scratch out the 'anyone'. I test drove both the TL and the IS. For me, the TL's interior feels cheaper than the IS's. For me! For me! For ME!!!!
That was just so I don't get pegged a Troll because I have an opinion.