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Acura TL vs Lexus IS 350

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Comments

  • boikoboiko Member Posts: 82
    Acura describes its 2007 TL Type-S as ``sinister," a word I've never associated with Honda's upscale division.

    But the hot Type-S is surprisingly frisky, something I discovered during a day of driving it out of the woods of Pennsylvania and through the twisting back roads of neighboring Maryland.

    I also found the base TL version to have the kind of oomph that not long ago would have been labeled high performance. Maybe that's because the new TL has the same horsepower as the old Type-S. In fact, it was powerful enough to make me wonder if the extra few thousand for the Type-S is necessary, except for those who want crazy power instead of just superb performance.

    The TL in base form has a 3.2-liter V-6 engine that produces a hefty 258 horsepower and 233 lb.-ft. of torque. Upgrade to the Type-S and you get a 3.5-liter V-6 with 286 horsepower and 256 lb.-ft. of torque.

    Expect around 23 miles per gallon from the smaller engine and about 21 from the more powerful option.

    The standard transmission in each model is a five-speed automatic with a manual option that can be shifted with paddles on the steering wheel. In the Type-S, the engine is revved on downshifts (called ``blipping" in a race car) for smoother transitions while maintaining speed.

    It is a transmission that truly let's you be in charge when you opt to go manual -- something many automatics with manual option do not allow.

    As you might guess, Acura's target TL customer -- particularly for the Type-S -- is a male in his 40s with an income of $100,000 or more. That's not to say that other people won't be able to afford the car when it goes on sale in the fall. Acura is pricing its TL models at between $34,000 and $39,000.

    The company calls the TL an ``entry premium" vehicle, something of an oxymoronic phrase. But I guess it somehow makes sense, since in recent years Acura has been selling more than 70,000 of the cars annually in the United States, making it the financial backbone of the company.

    And though Acura officials at the press launch for the TL repeatedly referred to the ``sinister styling" of the Type-S, it is also subtle and elegant, with its broad slits of headlights, fog lights dropped into the lower fascia, a mesh grille bisected by a chrome crossbar, and a pronounced hipline running front to rear.

    Actually, Acura has always been subtle. For example, only the rear ward flip of a spoiler, hot-looking wheels, and awesome-sounding quad tailpipes give any outer hint of what lurks beneath and inside the Type-S.

    Inside, stainless steel pedals in the Type-S differentiate it from the base model, as do firmly bolstered, multi seamed bucket seats and carbon fiber treatments.

    But safety is what Honda/Acura has been about (and look for the Koreans to push them into making stability control systems standard in even lesser models). The TL comes with antilock brake system, brake assist, stability control, air bags for front and side, and front and rear curtain air bags, as well as a front-end crash system that sends the force of an impact below and over the cockpit .

    You also get an array of standard comfort features that include a moonroof, 17-inch wheels, speed-sensitive wipers, heated power front seats , a pass-through rear center armrest, and an advanced audio system.

    The Type-S comes with better wheels, a sport-tuned suspension, carbon-fiber interior trim, noise cancellation, and other goodies.

    The TL, in both forms, is meant to compete with the BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35 cars, Mercedes C-Class, and Lexus ES 330. In both performance and interior quality it achieves that goal.

    http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/08/05/type_s_as_in_sinister/

    Enjoy...
    -mike-
  • slimjim2slimjim2 Member Posts: 3
    I have read the string of discussion and must play devil's advocate. If one is to compare the IS250, it should be compared to its dimension and power Acura counterpart, the TSX. I had driven both the IS and TL. The power issue was not as pertinent to me because although the IS250 was significantly less powerful, the engine sounds sportier at all RPMs. The illusion of performance in the IS250 is pretty good.

    I too was on the fence between the TL and IS. If you are still looking at the IS350, try sitting in all the seats. Trying to figure out where my legs go in the IS350 was the deal-breaker. Being 6'+ tall, I had a hard time finding where my legs go with the goofy hump along the right side of the driver's side foot compartment. This is where the AWD differential is housed in the IS250(also present with the auto tranny). Furthermore, putting a male adult of average stature in the back seat of the IS is simply comical. Sitting in the back seat with the front seatback in a normal position, I could not close the door as my knee was in the way.

    If the only persons to use the back seats are children, the IS350 was a strong contender. BUT if you ever want to cart your buddies around town in the back seat, I would consider the TL as the more practical option. FWD vs. RWD, close call. Can you handle torque steer? All things considered, these are two beautiful machines.
    Good luck!

    Side note: The Acura TL had an optional A-spec performance package that tightened up the suspension tuning, brake upgrade, wheel upgrade, and body kit. If you find one of these, it gives the TL a slight edge on the IS regarding handling and aggressive appearance.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Good post - right on the mark.

    I would have bought the IS 350 - but I value service - a big part of service is actually having the darn cars in stock so you can buy one. The - they are selling faster than we can make them just does not hold up IMO. I spent close to 20 years running a manufacturing company - never had a customer say - glad you products are selling I will just wait a few months to get mine - OH - and BTW I have no problem paying more because YOU can't keep up with demand.

    The reason Lexus is short of cars is because the want to be short of cars - its part of the business plan. Not a bad plan - it makes Toyota a pile of cash -

    I still think the IS 350 is a better car than the TL - but it is thousands more & I would have had to wait MONTHS to get the car I wanted - just not worth it this time.
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    " although the IS250 was significantly less powerful, the engine sounds sportier at all RPMs. The illusion of performance in the IS250 is pretty good"

    Agreed. I also had the same thoughts when trying both TL and IS250. I bought the IS since I prefer the sporty look of the IS as versus TL's roomy cabin (front seats are good enough for me and my fiancee'). Acura has comfortable back seats but its body is little bit long and I don't think it looks sexy to me as compared to the IS.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    2007 Acura TL-S - I moved a recent post there.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I have been in all of the seats in the IS and I agree that the rear seats are small.. very small, but I don't drive while sitting back there.

    As for toting around full grown men.... Um... not that I do that.... but I do have the 7 passenger MDX in the garage if I ever decide to take that hobby up. :blush:

    The back seats are plenty big enough for the little one.
    As for the front seats, I'm 6' tall and I fit in the IS like it was built around me.... I absolutely love the fit and have found nothing that compares to it yet.
    I'm more comfortable in the IS than I am in the MDX, which offers nothing in the realm of legroom.

    I want a car that's a ton of fun to drive.
    I want something that bums me out when I get to work and have to get out.
    I believe that the IS is my car... but the TL is a very nice ride and I know that the $10,000 saved could be very well spent on other things, and I could still be happy.

    I have a few more months to decide.
    After seeing my friends new BMW M3... I gave those another look.
    Why do they insist on nickle and diming us for things like leather and paint??? Oh well...
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684
    BMW M3? If you're considering TL vs. M3, if you buy the TL then you could probably by a new Miata for fun with the money you save over the M3!!!

    Ain't car shopping fun!!!

    I'm waiting for the IS convertible myself...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'm waiting for the IS convertible myself...

    I got a feeling that the IS convertible is going to be ugly. That's given if Lexus really decides to produce them.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    "BMW M3? If you're considering TL vs. M3, if you buy the TL then you could probably by a new Miata for fun with the money you save over the M3!!!"

    Sorry, I didn't make that too clear...

    What I was trying to say is...

    After seeing the friend's M3, I'm starting to look at the 330xi again.
    No M3 for me... I need something that will drive through snow, not just look pretty in the garage 4 months a year.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    If you want 60 extra HP you should hold off until the 07' 335i gets here. However if extra horses aren't your cup of tea and are satisfied with the 330i I'd say now is a good time to get it.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    "If you want 60 extra HP you should hold off until the 07' 335i gets here. However if extra horses aren't your cup of tea and are satisfied with the 330i I'd say now is a good time to get it."

    I am looking at the BMW more closely, but I think if I decide to go that way, it'll be for a slighty used '06 with very low miles, and a Certified Pre-Owned warranty.
    I cant stand the idea of paying top dollar for a car with a 4 year warranty that I'll wear out in milage in 2 years.
    That added with the fact that I can save enough to get what should be included (Leather, NAV, Stereo)... a slightly used model may be my best option.

    That's what makes the TL such a contender... the toys are included for a very reasonable price.
    But I need a driving experience as well.
    I like the 330 and IS more for this reason.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    In reply to the comment about the IS350's base price...

    "I just looked, and base pricing theoretically starts at 37,030 ish."

    Lexus prices can differ depending on location.
    For example, at one point, the Mark Levinson package was available on the west coast, but not here in New England.
    The website will differ depending on the zipcode entered.

    I'm in MA. Currently, the base price for the IS350 is $35,440.00

    You can avoid all of this by special ordering, but that can take a few months.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Back in April I looked at the IS 250/350 - the availability was very poor - no cars in stock. Since I had some time I waited until July to see if inventory improved. It did not. I considered ordering a car - I asked two different dealerships if I could get a car without the 18 inch wheels - I was told NO a car could not even be ordered that way. I don't recall exactly - but there was one other so called option that was really required - some luxury package maybe. I ask them - why are they called options if ever car must have them? There is no answer for this question. But I think I know what the real reason is - Lexus like to say their base MSRP is under $35K (or whatever). I am in Houston Texas - maybe its different in other places - but all I know is there was no way possible to order a base IS in Houston Texas. Kind of sad - the IS was our first choice.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I will admit that getting what you want from Lexus takes much more time and patience.

    Go to an Acura dealer, tell them the TL color and package you want, and they pull it around for you.
    Couldn't be easier.

    Lexus is nothing like that.
    With Lexus, they build a model at the factory in Japan in clumps.
    By this I mean... In January, February and March, the IS350 may only be built with the Sport Package.
    In April, May and June, it may only be built with the Luxury and Mark Levinson packages.

    What this means is that if you want something not in current production, it CAN be ordered, at no additional cost, but it takes anywhere between a few weeks and 5 months to get.

    I'm sorry if your Lexus salesguy was a moron.... I've seen this problem a lot while shopping around the Lexus dealers, they're mostly meatheads with little to no knowledge of the cars, or their options.

    I was wanting the IS350 with Nav/Luxury/Mark Levinson Packages.
    I was told 5 months for delivery.
    I decided to wait until the 07s arrived.
    Nothing worse than taking delivery of an 06 one month before the 07's arrive!
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    The sales people I worked with at Lexus were pretty good - I think they knew I was a serious buyer - not someone just window shopping. They searched for a car meeting my requirements at another dealership - looked at what was ordered (both at their dealership and others) plus offered to order a car. Not sure what else they could have done - I do not think they were playing games - there really was a very limited supply of IS cars.

    I also went through the - if I order a 2006 at the end of July I would get it in October - about the same time the 2007's show up.

    I also agree with you about the Acura TL being easy to find - several dealers had over 100 in stock - every color combo - with & without nav. They were below invoice without much negotiation. I still like the cars Lexus sells - and will shop them next time we buy a vehicle.
  • ajmtbmajmtbm Member Posts: 245
    how is the legroom in an is rear seat vs. the TL. on paper, it seems like a lot...
  • lexus_jnlexus_jn Member Posts: 102
    I heard the new IS300 will be available for sale in the Fall It could be around 250 to 275 hp. If you are not in a hurry why can't wait and then compare.

    I think Acura TL's interior is very cool but its exterior look fails to impress me. Hopefully, the new TL will change all that
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    "I heard the new IS300 will be available for sale in the Fall It could be around 250 to 275 hp. If you are not in a hurry why can't wait and then compare.

    I think Acura TL's interior is very cool but its exterior look fails to impress me. Hopefully, the new TL will change all that"


    The Lexus IS300 is no longer in production.
    The 2nd Gen IS is the 250/350 and HP is not changing this year, so what you heard about the 250-275 hp is incorrect, or you're reading from an old article.
    The TL's exterior is not changing until the 09 model arrives.
    The 07 model just has minor changes and offers the Type-S, at a rediculous price, if you ask me.

    As for the back seat room in the IS... it sucks.
    The TL offers about 3" more legroom than the IS. In fact, the IS's backseat is usually the deal breaker for most people.
    I test drove the IS250 but the IS350 is in my crosshairs.
    I put the drivers seat where I would be comfortable to drive, and then climbed in the back.
    It was snug, but I fit.
    An adult could sit back there for about 30 minutes, wouldn't push it past that.

    Now, the wife sits in the passenger seat and there is plenty of legroom behind her since she has shorter legs.
    I dont plan on toting a ton of people in my next ride.
    It's gonna be my A -> B toy, and my daughter has more than enough room in the back.

    I have the 7 passenger 06 MDX for all my multi-passenger needs.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    The Lexus IS300 is no longer in production.

    That's not entirely true...

    The only 2nd gen IS sold in China is the IS300. As far as I know, China is the only market to have it (they don't have the 250 and 350). Why Lexus does this is totally beyond me.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Ya, great

    Is Lexus_in in China? :P
    Does he plan on going to China? :P
    Is this a Chinese forum? :P

    And if Lexus is still offering the IS300 in China (which I could not quickly find info on)... is it the 2nd Gen Model, or still the old 1st Gen Model?

    Considering the hp's mentioned, I assume it's a 1st Gen IS.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Here's the link...

    Lexus China

    Like I said, it is the 2nd gen IS.

    I know it is irrelevant to Lexus_in's question but I was just trying to prove that Lexus is still producing the 300 model.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Well, maybe we can agree that we're both correct.
    Maybe Lexus_in can jump in and explain to us, what it is we're discussing?

    Yes, Lexus has an IS model in China which is labeled the IS300, looks like the 2nd gen IS250/350, but comes with completely different performance specs.
    Some countries have specific requirements.
    Maybe this is why Lexus has done this... who knows.

    Anyway, when I stated that it is no longer in production, I was only referring to Lexus' production for the US....
    since this is where we are.

    In the US, there is no new IS300.
    There is nothing coming to us in the form of a new IS300 in the fall.
    So...
    There is no use in him waiting for the new IS300 to compare to the 07 TL, unless he plans on importing a car from China which will most likely not even meet our countries emissions standards.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    I am interested to see the performance numbers between these two vehicles. Specifically, I would like to see how the RWD IS 350 performs without the VDIM engaged vs. the FWD TL-S with increased hp/torque and suspension upgrades.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Well, I know that one will be a heck of a lot easier to keep on the road than the other. ;)
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    The "reviews" thus far have these vehicles as they are equipped---with the TL out performing the IS in slalom and lane passing :P

    0-60---different story ;)
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I haven't seen these reviews yet, but I do expect the Type-S to be a contender.
    I'd like to see them throw the 300hp 07 G35x into the mix as well, to see hot that holds up against these other 2 cars
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    I'm not proficient enough with computers in pasting links but one of the reviews was from Car & Driver when the IS 350 first debuted. Huge controversy in how the 3er beat out the IS. ;)
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    and the BMW 335. I bet I can guess which vehicle will win that comparo... ;)
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    "I'm not proficient enough with computers in pasting links but one of the reviews was from Car & Driver when the IS 350 first debuted. Huge controversy in how the 3er beat out the IS."

    I hope we compare price tags as well.
    If you take a BMW 3 series and add the necessary options to bring it up to what the IS has to offer, your at least $10,000 over the IS's price tag.

    The BMW offers a better handling drive, and maybe a fraction of a second, depending on model and year.... and nothing more.

    The IS is MUCH more refined, offers more bang for the buck and let's face it... it's nicer to look at too!
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    The BMW offers a better handling drive, and maybe a fraction of a second, depending on model and year.... and nothing more.

    What about a manual transmission? :P
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Agreed
    Still not sure what Lexus was thinking there. :confuse:
  • maxidrivemaxidrive Member Posts: 70
    Remember, not all car enthusiasts want or need a stick shift car.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    "Remember, not all car enthusiasts want or need a stick shift car."

    When building a "sports" sedan, the option should be made available.

    With that mentality, we could say that not all car enthusiasts want an Automatic, and for that reason, they should not be made available.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    When building a "sports" sedan, the option should be made available.

    With that mentality, we could say that not all car enthusiasts want an Automatic, and for that reason, they should not be made available.


    Amen. And, in fact, that worked just fine for the Honda S2000 and previous generation M5.

    I have no trouble with a company like Porsche offering a Tiptronic to those that can't / won't drive a stick. But for Lexus - already known for being more than a little soft in the middle - not offering a stick on the IS350 is certainly not helping that image.
  • maxidrivemaxidrive Member Posts: 70
    Reality is there's more demand for automatics than manuals. So, maybe Lexus thought it would make more business sense not to offer a manual for the IS 350 in its first model year? :confuse:
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    We'll know if that's acurate in about one month.
    Rumors are that the 07 IS will offer a switch to turn off the VDIM, no more tap dance in the driver's seat.
    No definite word on a Munual 350 yet.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Stopped by the dealer last night for some RDX party, and to ask a question about our MDX.

    While I was there, I asked if brochures were available for the '07 TL.
    They didn't have any but they are on order, should be in within the next few weeks.

    The Sales Manager who sold me my MDX knows what I want in the TL, if I choose to go that way.

    He said that the Manual 6-Speed will only be available in the Type-S model.
    The regular TL will only offer the Auto transmission.

    I hope he's wrong.
    The slight increase of hp, I dont find the additional $5,000 to be worth it...personally.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    scottm123,

    Your manager is wrong, at least according to C & D August 06 article.

    A 28 hp increase, 23lb ft of increased torque, suspension upgrades, exterior mods, quadruple exhaust and interior refinements might be worth the 5k premium to some.... ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    A 28 hp increase, 23lb ft of increased torque, suspension upgrades, exterior mods, quadruple exhaust and interior refinements might be worth the 5k premium to some....

    Wow, your 5K must be worth a lot less than my 5 grands.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    What I am saying is that it's very disappointing for a lot of folks who wish for the manual transmission but don't need the Type-S

    Paying $5,000 for the Manual option is not going to be very acceptable to some.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Assuming he is correct, I would tend to agree with you. Maybe Acura is following Lexus' philosophy??

    However, IMHO, I just don't see how the 07 (base) TL with the same engine, torque, horsepower, etc.. would be any different than its predecessors, i.e. not having a manual tranny option.

    It wouldn't cost the manufacturer anything to keep the manual tranny option on the base model. :cry:
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I completely agree, and that ws the source of my surprise.
    He also told me that they are dropping the RSX.
    The TSX will take it's place as Acura's base model.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Don't know about the manual not being available on the base model but he's right on the RSX. I think Acura announced that early this year or late last year. With Acura dropping the RSX maybe we'll see the return of the prelude?
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Info on acura.com states there is no manual tranny on "regular" TL.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    TL Type-S Engine
    3.5-liter SOHC V-6 aluminum alloy engine
    286 hp at 6200 rpm and 256 lb-ft of torque at 5000 rpm
    Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC®)
    Dual-stage induction system with lightweight magnesium intake manifold
    Cold-air intake system
    High flow, sport tuned exhaust system with quad finishers (Type-S)
    Computer-controlled Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI)
    Direct ignition system
    Compact in-head exhaust manifolds
    High flow close-coupled catalytic converters plus under floor catalytic converter
    High capacity 32-bit RISC processor engine control unit
    105,000 mile tune-up intervals

    6-Speed Manual Transmission (TL Type-S only)
    Close ratio spacing for maximum performance
    Multi-cone synchronizers (first through fourth gears)
    Reverse lock-out feature prevents accidental engagement
    Lightweight high-pressure-cast aluminum-alloy transmission housing
    Improved clutch feel for smoother engagement
    Advanced clutch torsion mechanism reduces gear noise
    Helical gear limited-slip differential reduces wheel spin and maximizes acceleration

    Type-S Exclusive Features
    Black chrome grille trim (satin chrome on TL)
    Redesigned bumper with black chrome crossbar and horizontal mesh trim
    Pronounced "splitter" lip on front valance

    Type-S Exclusive Features
    10-spoke alloy wheels in Dark Euro Silver
    Smoked rear side marker lights
    Wider, more aggressive side sill moldings

    Type-S Exclusive Features
    Exclusive rear bumper with trunk lid spoiler diffuser
    Redesigned and unique lower valance
    Large diameter quad exhaust finishers
    Black chrome taillight trim
    New Type-S logo

    Features exclusive to the TL Type-S include:
    Increased damping rates for superior handling
    Rear spring rate increased
    A solid front anti-roll bar and thicker rear anti-roll bar
    Damper mount stiffness increased 400 percent for enhanced response and feel
    Exclusive master cylinder for enhanced brake feel
    Brembo 4-piston front brake calipers
    Available 235/45R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE 030 high-performance "summer" tires optional on automatic and manual transmission models

    I guess my 5k is worth more :P
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    I can't get pass those ugly wheels and the FWD.

    However, I will wait until I actually see the car and test drive it before I start throwing stones.
  • trackstarrtrackstarr Member Posts: 9
    Blah, Blah, Blah.....At the end of the day the TL Type-S will still lose to an IS350.

    Why are people trying to compare the IS350 with TL's, or G35's, etc.

    Lexus and BMW consider each other as competitors. So in reality its $3-5K less expensive than a comparably equipped 335. Ok so great it doesn't handle as good but then its 10x more reliable, just as quick (saw a stock one repeatedly run mid-to-low 13's in the qtr mile), and provides more luxury. You sit in an Acura or Infiniti and see Honda and Nissan. There is no Toyota that is based off the IS.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "Blah, Blah, Blah.....At the end of the day the TL Type-S will still lose to an IS350."

    First place: Acura TL Type S 1:36:67 sec
    Second place: Lexus IS350 1:38:24 sec
    Third place: Infiniti G35 1:38:67 sec

    http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275963

    "Lexus and BMW consider each other as competitors."

    LOL. :P
  • trackstarrtrackstarr Member Posts: 9
    Maybe if ggesq was a real car enthusiast I would take his comments seriously.

    If they don't consider each other as competitors than why would Lexus bring out the IS? To compete it with the TL's and the G35? Please!!

    And if BMW doesn't consider Lexus as a competitor than why did they turn the 330 into the 335i? To take G35 and TL customers away?
  • trackstarrtrackstarr Member Posts: 9
    Your 1st, 2nd, 3rd place is based off of who can go around a track the quickest. And based on how close those times are, it is down to the skill of the driver.

    In the realworld out on the streets, the TL "Type-S" will lose everytime.

    And its sad that a company with such a great heritage of making awesome motorcycle engines and 4 cylinder VTEC engines, can not produce something over 300hp. You can yank 240hp out of an S2000, but can't go over 300hp with a 3liter V6?

    Infiniti is about to produce 330hp out of basically the same VQ-series engine they have used for over a decade. And Honda/Acura can't? Why not?
This discussion has been closed.