Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

thegraduate · December 2005

Ford Reliability has been improving every year, do the research.

Did it have anywhere to go but up? (I researched old Ford reliability and cam to that conclusion.)

alpha01 · December 2005

Good thing we created that Midsize Sedan Comparisons Thread so we could talk about the 6 and Altima in addition to the Fusion, Camry, Accord, and Sonata...

~alpha

acgood · December 2005

Drove an i4 Fusion SE this week, as well as Corolla LE and CIvic LX (posted on their comparison forum), and an 05 Camry LE. Came away with a good impression of teh Fusion overall, the front and back leg room is actaully incredible. The only car I've ever driven where I don't put the seat all the way back to be comfortable. Spacious trunk too, interior was so-so, but that's not a big selling point for me. Must say that I caused a little panic in my Toyota salesman by complimenting the Fusion saying it felt like I was driving a Camry! He quickly (and likely rightfully so...) resorted to bashing Ford reliability. Happy holidays all!

bimmer4me · December 2005

A few of you misinterpretated my earlier post. I apologize if I didn't convey my message in a positive way.

It's apparent that you're so compelled to defend your recent Hyundai purchase. It's okay! You own a HYUNDAI, so what.

What I was trying to say is that Zen2 shouldn't go to such great lengths to defend his Hyundai purchase. So what if he owns a Hyundai. His win.

backy · December 2005

Coming back to the pricing, you mention 5k MSRP difference between an Accord and a Sonata (which is not true, obviously you don't figure in rebates in an MSRP comparison).

You're right... the difference in price between the Sonata and Accord that C/D compared wasn't $5000, it was actually $6,355. My comment was pertaining to the prices of the cars in the comparos, and the point I was trying to make is that I am not surprised that an Accord that cost $6,355 more than the Sonata (and $4200 more than the Fusion that was tested) bested those cars. It should have!

You may think comparing cars that cost about the same money is a no-no, but I do that all the time when I buy a car, and when you think about it, isn't that how a lot of people buy cars? "What's the best car I can buy for my $20k?" for example. For that kind of money, you could get a 4-cylinder Accord or Camry with not much in the way of options, a base Fusion V6 with an option or two, or a loaded Sonata LX (I am talking negotiated prices including rebates here). If they say, "I want what the Accord offers and I don't mind paying a few thousand more to get it," that's their prerogative.

03accordman · December 2005

I usually compare equally spec'd out cars, then decide whether the difference is justified to me.

I have said this earlier; the Sonata does have a big price advantage in real world pricing (low price plus rebates); I was commenting on the MSRPs. If you do an MSRP comparison between an Accord, Sonata and Fusion, you too will come up with the same pricing I did. Trust me, the MSRP of the Fusion is very close to that of the Accord.

backy · December 2005

I think you would agree however that few people buy cars at MSRP, so the comparison of MSRPs isn't too meaningful for the real world except as a data point.

smith20 · December 2005

I think you would agree however that few people buy cars at MSRP, so the comparison of MSRPs isn't too meaningful for the real world except as a data point.

I would go a step further and say comparison of MSRPs is downright useless relative to a comparison of the actual prices for the individual consumer seriously looking to make a purchase.

Why make a comparison between prices you aren't going to pay?

scape2 · December 2005

Go to msn and into thier auto section then to reliability data. Take a look at Ford reliability data for the Ford line-up. You may be surprised. The Taurus actually rates well. The fact of the matter is it is bashed and hammered into the publics head that Ford nor GM can make decent vehicles. Get out on the internet, visit other chat rooms you will find plenty of peeved off Honda owners and Toyota owners that are having issues with their cars and trucks. Go to Google and type in "Honda problems" you will be surprised.
For some of us the first and foremost part of a vehicle purchase is "status" not value, performance, and the most quality for your $$. Myself, I purchase what I feel is the best vehicle, not some auto reporter/writer. Doesn't take much to write a story about a Honda or Toyota. Fact of the matter is there are other sedans to CHOOSE from. Mazda 6, VW Jetta, Chevy Impala to name a few not mentioned here. Choice is nice.. :shades:

goodegg · December 2005

I'd bet ya Ford has burned more people on this comparo than all the other entrants combined - including me.

My 96 Taurus ran great, but the transmission usually mega-slipped, it ran hot, and the resale value when I unloaded it was a joke. Got rid of it for a Camry that was trouble free for 5 years.

Googleing is a joke. I can google my business' website and get thousands of hits that are meaningless.

webby1 · December 2005

From Canadian side.....I purchased the Accord SE V6 couple weeks ago for my wife. The Accord was $3, 000 more than the Sonata, however comparing apples with apples I priced a Sonata GL V6 with sunroof. Both cars were close with options and HP ( Honda slightly more HP but not a factor ) however Accord has power seats ( driver ) , VSA and TCS system.
Also, checked the resale values 3 and 4 yrs from now and that is where Accord shines. The difference on both cars was approx $4,000 resale value. I am sure Sonata is a great car but I went with proven record and a little more car.
Plus, my wife loves the look of the new Accord and hates the looks of the old ones
Regards,
Webby

backy · December 2005

Is that all in Canadian dollars?

Here it's a little different picture, in trim names and prices. The invoice on an Accord LX V6 is $23,141 (all figures USD), and on a Sonata GLS V6 with Premium Sport Package is $21,213--so only about $1900 difference. But there's a $1000 general rebate, a $1000 HMFC rebate, and $1000 loyalty rebate on the Sonata. So for someone like me who already owns a Hyundai, it's more like a $5000 difference. That is major money, especially if either car could satisfy someone's needs.

goodegg · December 2005

What - do you want him to take the car back?

I understand the mindset in buying a Honda. Sonata's a nice car, but I can't see putting it ahead of the Accord. Don't care about a few bucks when it comes to a long term commitment that a car brings.

Drooled over a EXV6 today in carbon bronze. Salesgal couldn't find the key for it, left me standing around staring at the car for 15 minutes, never came back. Crazy. Got my CU financing all lined up and my quote from USAA for insurance. Good closer coulda had me.

backy · December 2005

No, I wasn't telling anyone to take his car back. I was just explaining that the dollar difference can be a lot more than $3000 CAN, depending on circumstances. Personally I think $5000 is more than a few bucks, but that's me. Everyone needs to buy what they like. Me, I'd take the Sonata GLS (silver or maybe tan) and use the extra money for other things. But if you have that "Honda itch", only a Honda will scratch it.

webby1 · December 2005

Yes...it is in Can funds.
I am not aware of any rebates on Sonata other then special financing in Canada.
Regards,
Webby

webby1 · December 2005

FYI....it is Carbon Bronze Pearl...wife was not sure at the beginning but loves the color now.
We have been driving Hondas since 1975 and the Accord won it's category 20 yrs at of 25 and 9 yrs in a row, is bullet proof so it not easy to go with a newcomer ( Sonata ) although it is getting a lot of attention.
Regards,
Webby

03accordman · December 2005

Completely agree with you. The reason I quoted MSRPs was because you had mentioned MSRP comparisons.

negative · December 2005

I'd bet ya Ford has burned more people on this comparo than all the other entrants combined - including me.

I'd bet you'd bet right. My '85 Ford Tempo tried to kill me several times, with bucking and stalling, until I made the wise decision in 1991 to dump it for a Camry. 1985 was the first year for fuel injection in that car, which Ford decided to sell even though they hadn't yet figured out what fuel injection was. Every part related to the fuel system in the car was replaced at least once.

Back when it was made, Ford's big advertising theme was "Quality is Job 1." Remember that? The ad campaign seemed so earnest and honest that you almost believed it. But the reality was very different.

Now the conventional wisdom is that Fords really have gotten better, in spite of more recent headaches like the Focus and Escape. With the Fords having only a 3-year/36,000-mile warranty, I'd rather take my chances with Hyundai.

It may be more than fourteen years since I got rid of the Tempo, but I haven't forgotten all the time, money and misery it cost me.

jimmy81 · December 2005

the Accord won it's category 20 yrs at of 25 and 9 yrs in a row

What's important is that it won in your garage. Its nice to hear the accolades and nods from the car rags, but those are certainly just opinions. The real test is the perception of the car by you and the guy that buys it from you later. Sonata is the newcomer and has to be priced lower to gain a foothold in this sector. Hyundai seems willing to lose money selling them at the low end to do so. Honda makes money by winning the perceived value game that goes on in people's minds as they picture the car in their garage.

jrock65 · December 2005

What makes you think that Hyundai is losing money?

zen2 · December 2005

Ah, yes, the wonderful Tempo. My father's first,
and last new car. What a shame. Nothing but problems from
day one. When he died, no one in the family wanted the
car, even though he had 10 grandchildren who drove.
It was 3 years old. Oh, and he had been a part time
mechanic for 45 years, so he didn't take the car in
for anything he could fix himself.

zen2 · December 2005

Did you mean to say the rate of increase of fatal,
or near fatal flaws has been decreasing?

zen2 · December 2005

Where are you guys coming up with this crap?
My brother has a Lincoln Town Car, his wife loved
her Hyundai, when Hyundai wouldn't deal with her
on a SantaFe, she bought a Honda. Their combined
income is well within the top 1% of Pa. I guess
everyone doesn't think Hyundais are cheap. But
so are Hondas. Don't you remember the old Civics?
Now, they were a hoot. I have had Hondas, and still
own one. I don't consider it any more "prestigious"
than my Hyundai. Wow, I can afford two cars! 2005,
and a 2006.

zen2 · December 2005

Hmm, a Ford for 23,888, or a Hyundai for 18 or 19K
with a 10 year warranty. Now that's a tossup.

zen2 · January 2006

? Sonata wins

backy · January 2006

It's not a static world (e.g. 2007 Camry is coming soon), and everyone has different buying criteria.

thegraduate · January 2006

I remember the two town cars we had; both rentals, and neither made it out of town before losing their transmission. We ended up having to rent the Aerostar (1990s)for our Disney trip.

ctalk · January 2006

Sonata wins

There is no winner, everyone sees it differently. But of course, there are winners of comparison tests done by reviewers. But like Backy said, everyone has different buying criteria.

zen2 · January 2006

I just made that comment because nobody had posted anything
in more than a week.

backy · January 2006

Many discussions are dead. Holidays--people are away from work and home and their broadband Internet connections.

joea1 · January 2006

I'm gonna buy new car ,choose a cammry or a sonata
help me out~! what's better you guys think?

backy · January 2006

If you can possibly wait a few months, the '07 Camry will be coming out soon and is all-new, will probably be much improved over the old one. On the other hand, there will probably be good deals to be had on the old Camry. Last night I saw an ad for a $199/month lease special on the '06 Camry.

I have yet to see a head-to-head comparison where the Camry outpointed the '06 Sonata. Personally, I like the Sonata better also. But you need to drive both and see what you think. Even with closeout deals on the Camry, the Sonata will probably cost significantly less (depending on the rebate picture for January), and it has much more standard safety equipment than the Camry.

pnjfksx · January 2006

I spent some time on this site and some others determining the expected depreciation rates over time for the Sonata as well as some comparably equipped vehicles (Accord, Camry, TSX, Passat, Galant, Mazda6) and it looks like the Sonata will experience at least a 30% drop when the 2007s come out and the 2006s start getting traded.

Since I do not need the vehicle right now, my plan is to wait until this depreciation kicks in and then buy a 2006.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Norman

backy · January 2006

If you are talking about a 30% drop from MSRP, for slightly-used '06 Sonatas, that is very possible IMO. But if you are talking about a 30% drop from actual sale prices, I think you will be disappointed.

Example: New GLS V6 models are available in my city now for $17k before the loyalty rebate, and $16k with it. I really doubt you'll see slightly-used '06 GLS V6s going for $11-12k at the end of this year.

But it is always a good bet to buy a one-year-old car than a new one, and save the first-year depreciation. You may not save 30% off current prices, but you'll save something.

alpha01 · January 2006

I'm interested in Hyundai's alleged restyle of the Sonatas IP/controls. Personally, I cant stand the swamp green lighting that is used in the guages (Toyota used this color forever before moving to electroluminescents) and although the materials are high quality, Im not enamored of the interior styling of the Sonata. From what I've seen I prefer the 07 Camry (though I only saw the SE model).

~alpha

pnjfksx · January 2006

What I did was take the 2006 invoice price and compare that to the private seller price for a wide range of mid-size imports for the 2005, 2004, 2003 and 2002 models. The Mazda6, Mitsubishi Galant and Hyundai Sonata showed a more marked change than the Honda Accord, and Acura TSX in the first year. The Camry, Avalon and Altima were more in the middle. I suspect this has to do with the reputation of the Honda brands, the large supply of Toyotas and Nissans, and the relatively small dealer base for the Mazdas, Mitsubishis and Hyundais.

I saw that the 2005 Sonata showed a greater drop than either the Mazdas or Mitsubishis which I attributed to the new Sonata (There was a similar downward bump for the Galant when it was upgraded as few years back), so I took the Mazda/Mits rate instead of the much greater Sonata rate.

Since the LX's MSRP is $22895 and has an invoice of $20961 per Edmunds, this means I could see prices in the $14.7K $16K range once the 2007 is available.

backy · January 2006

$16k, maybe. Good luck!

zen2 · January 2006

But you are looking at USED cars. There is no way
you can get a 2005 Accord for 30% less than a new
one, if it has not been titled. IMO

goodegg · January 2006

Accord's resale value is probably the highest of the cars in the comparo. But since most of us hold a car for 5+ years, who cares? The high end Accord is such a sublime vehicle. Sure it costs much more than a Sonata LX, but it offers tons more in performance, style, ergonomics, and design/appeal. The Sonata is a nice package but is oh so boring and utilitarian. They're not selling around here. For some reason this is Honda country (SE US)

I've seen minimal Fusions in the past few months. Ford will probably call on Hertz soon to pump up its Fusion sales.

ontop · January 2006

I think Hyundai's perception in the public's eye is still suffering from the negative vibes of its previous versions. Hyundai builds a better car now but IMO they have zero appeal in the style department.

The 06 Accord is a fine vehicle, but its restyle isn't that great. I want a car with some flair and expect to mechanicals to be there. The Fusion does look nice but who knows about the mechanicals. Don't see many of them at all either. May have to go to the TL sector to get what I'm looking for.

driverdm · January 2006

The Fusion is growing in sales. Just give it time. From the increases month to month of Fusion sales, considering that it was introduced when many cars were putting on incentives for year end, it is doing well. When there are no incentives and the Fusion's lower pricing is more apparant, you'll see a good amount on the road. It is getting favorable reviews and the best advertising is word of mouth, so it takes time before people tell their friends or go for a ride in their friends' car. It's winter here in New England, not a good time to sell a house... or a car.

thegraduate · January 2006

When there are no incentives and the Fusion's lower pricing is more apparant, you'll see a good amount on the road.

Just when do you think the incentive craze will end? I am more likely to believe that "when incentives are offered on the fusion, sales will go up." Ford buyers are used to incentives now, and probably won't buy a car without them IMO. With all the "family pricing" and red tag specials out there, I can't say I would buy an american made car without one since every car and his brother have rebates now. I can imagine that this time next year, the Fusion will have a minimum $2,000 rebate (just my opinion based on other Ford rebate offers).

driverdm · January 2006

Incentives during the end of the year are higher than those during the spring. THat is a fact. Additioanlly, there is an incentive on everything right now, an Accord, a Camry, a Legacy, a Sonata, a Bentley... okay maybe not the last one but you get my point. Once the Accord and Camry stop the incentives as well all know they will. The Fusion's lower price tag will allow it to sell without large incentives. You can get a V6 now for right under $20K. You really think it is going to drop down to 18 oir 17.5? And you have to remember next year the Fusion gets the 250 engine, though some have said it might be as high as 270 which will put it in line with the new Camry which has 269. 18K for a 250 or 270 horsepower sedan. If it does happen perhaps you and I could work out a group buy with the dealer because that will be one of the best performing cars on the market for that price. You could get a blue one, I'd grab a red, and we'd find some straggler to get a white.

ctalk · January 2006

Incentives during the end of the year are higher than those during the spring. THat is a fact. Additioanlly, there is an incentive on everything right now, an Accord, a Camry, a Legacy, a Sonata, a Bentley

Honda is very light on their incentives, unlike other automakers. They rather have a high resale value, than more sales.

You should note that tones of Ford's are sold in fleets. That will also effect its resale value.

chrisford · January 2006

Fusion gets the 250 engine, though some have said it might be as high as 270

Is this a fact? If it is I would be puting off my purchase until then. I like the fusion as it is but, 270HP make me very, very happy.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Camry rebates in midAtlantic states have actually decreased this year ( now $750 rebate ) and the avg transaction price has gone up over the last two years. This is at the end of this generation's life cycle.

backy · January 2006

Incentives during the end of the year are higher than those during the spring. THat is a fact.

That has not been my experience. I've tracked incentives pretty closely over the past five years and have found that the incentives in the early spring are at least as good as those at the end of the year. The exception is incentives for models that are being sunset--those can be higher as the new model is introduced. But with more and more new models being introduced early in the year, it clouds the picture.

As an example, I found that the incentives on the Elantra reached an all-time high for my local area in the spring of 2004--$1500 general rebate, $1000 owner loyalty, and a $500 regional rebate. There were probably some college and military rebates in there too. I think we'll see incentives on the '06 Camry peaking in the spring, as the '07 model is introduced.

So my advice is, don't assume incentives are highest at the end of the year, on a particular model. Keep checking the incentives all during the year; you might find a great deal some other time.

driverdm · January 2006

I ran a car brokering business for a little bit, where I had connections for discount pricing from dealers. Let me tell you, in normal situations the best deals are at the end of the year or the beginning of the next year, but in any case, while it is still winter. Dealers don't want a model year 05 when the clock strikes 06. Though the car is new, it is automatically considered old. You can finagle the invoice price and rebates much easier.

That isn't always the case, on obvious difference which you have mentioned is when a car is being completely redone. I second your advice though that you have to keep your eye out year round because market conditions affect pricing during the year, i.e. gas rising to 3 bucks a gallon.

driverdm · January 2006

Go over to the Ford Fusion forum and see. It's coming. I am waiting to see myself. I like the Fusion but it still isn't sports car enough for me. Interestingly, I really like the Mazda CX-7 and am anxiously waiting to see the next Mazda6. If you look at the detailed interior of the CX-7, if it migrates to the next 6 with 250hp, I'd camp at the dealership till it came in.

backy · January 2006

I don't doubt that there may be some more room to negotiate a discount at the end of the year (although I've not had any problem negotiating big discounts at other times of the year; there are monthly quotas also). But the initial discussion was about incentives, which is why I disagreed that the biggest incentives are at the end of the year.

I watched the ads carefully over the past few days (I am actually looking for a car now) and from what I saw, the ad prices were no better and in many cases worse than they were earlier in the year, before all the "employee price" monkey business (what a rip-off that was!). But maybe the actual negotiated prices were better.

Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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