Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

zen2 · January 2006

Yes, maybe it's just me, and my daughter. Very unlucky
with Fords. But lucky with Honda. The main thing
I dislike about Ford is that they never took
reponsibility for design flaws and faulty cars
unless forced to by the government or a lawsuit.
On the other hand, Honda seems to go out of their
way to help their customers.

Like I said, I owned many Fords, more than you've mentioned. My daughter only owned one, destroyed
by engine fire. Her fault I guess. She shouldn't
have driven it.

Ford did zip for her.

zen2 · January 2006

Sorry, I admit I haven't looked at a Toyota in probably
8 years, because of those experiences. They may have
had to change, but I haven't looked at them. Are you going to sell the new Camry at or below invoice? If you are,
let me know where you are located and I will come for
a test drive.

zen2 · January 2006

I didn't say sticker, did I? I think I said at
invoice.

goodegg · January 2006

Go ahead and veer. The Sedona has been out for many years now and, at least in my area, they are not selling. Its all Odysseys, Siennas, and DCs. Sedona is a non-factor so I doubt that all of a sudden the Hyundai van will be a hit.

Out of all the Hyundais I've seen the Sonata is the best, hands down. Azera, Elantra, even the Santa Fe are yawns. Hyundai needs to parlay the success of the Sonata with other offerings better than what they have out now.

Its probably their best shot at getting over the negative hump they've been behind from past troubles. I don't think it'll take ten more years - probably more like 4-5.

backy · January 2006

There is an all-new Sedona which you probably haven't seen yet. It is light years ahead of the old Sedona--bigger, lighter, quicker, roomier, etc. The Entourage is similar.

The Santa Fe is six years old--the all-new model is due out this summer. The all-new Elantra is due out this fall. The all-new big SUV is due out this year. The all-new crossover is due out this year. The all-new Accent 3-door is due out this spring. The all-new Accent hybrid is due out this fall.

Are you getting the picture?

goodegg · January 2006

All these models are still Hyundais. They have to be priced cheaper or they won't sell in good numbers. Period.

And Hyundai isn't the only company coming out with new or updated models.

That's the picture I get. Mega competition is always good for the consumer.

gujuguy · January 2006

Actually I got Toyota Camry LE 2006 for 1500 below invoice for 17500 in NJ where toyota and hondas sell like hot cakes.

jrock65 · January 2006

"Overall though they have no trucks, minivans, big SUV's and the Sonata may max out at 400K units or so. Where can they grow? Their potential to crack the Big 5 is limited."

Max out at 400,000?

They already sold 455,012 in 2005. The new Sonata only sold for half the year, and the new Accent and Azera came at the end of the year. In 2006, new Elantra, new Santa Fe, new Entourage, and new EN are coming, and in 2007, the BH.

In 2007, I can see their sales as something like:

Accent: 40,000
Elantra: 120,000
Sonata: 180,000
Azera: 40,000
Tucson: 50,000
Santa Fe: 100,000
EN: 30,000
Entourage: 45,000
Tiburon: 15,000

Total: 620,000

kdhspyder · January 2006

I specifically meant 'sells the most', i.e the market speaking. It's comparable to the boring old Camry here selling the most. Heck the corolla outsells every other auto except the Accord. Something is right about it... and it's not discounted anywhere near the Elantra.. and often not at all... surprisingly.

The Corolla is aged.. It's already 5 yrs into this Gen and is due to renew this time next year. But it sells like crazy .

kdhspyder · January 2006

And you saw my reply.. we sell about 200+ toyotas every month right around invoice +$500 or -$500. Anyone coming in saying I want this 4runner today from stock I'm financing with TFS and I'll pay $450 over invoice is done!!. It takes maybe 45 min.

kdhspyder · January 2006

I was talking about Sonata's only being maxd out@ 400K if they can reach that..The production of Alabama and some imports..

This was all in response to one poster who stated categorically that Hyundai would blow by HonYota and all of Detroit an soon be #1 here. I am certain this is not likely in the near future for all the reasons in the last 30 posts. They might be a solid 6th!!

backy · January 2006

Since other people have commented on how many Sonatas are sold to fleets, it's fair to note of the Corolla... I see a lot of those when I rent cars from Hertz (in fact I get a lot of them from Hertz, unfortunately).

But for the people who find the seating position of the Corolla tolerable, it is a good little car--economical, smooth ride, reliable, peppy enough, good safety options available (side bags/curtains, ABS, even VSC). But "best in class" with the Civic and Mazda3? Sorry, I don't think so.

P.S. didn't the latest Corolla debut in early 2002, as a 2003 model--four years ago?

kdhspyder · January 2006

Yep due for renewal this time next year, prolly as a 2008 model

jrock65 · January 2006

"I was talking about Sonata's only being maxd out 400K if they can reach that..The production of Alabama and some imports.."

Well, Hyundai execs would roll on the floor if Sonata reached "only" 400k. That would make it the best selling sedan in the U.S.

zen2 · January 2006

You never answered the question though. Are you going to
sell the 2007 Camry for around invoice? I doubt it.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Nope 2nd behind the Camry... But yes that's the cornerstone of what they have to do to emulate Toyota.

But then they have to build 3 or 4 more plants like that and max them all out to catch Toyota today.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Be realistic.. in the beginning No! 3-6 months from now almost for certain.

It doesnt help me but it helps the owner. So if he says move all the Camry's and keep a 20 day supply the GSM will be all over that order. It also makes the process a lot easier and the customers a lot more relaxed and satisfied.

BTW just to be clear, Toyota doesnt give a whit of what happens with the retail prices. When the Camry is shipped they have their money. After that it's between the dealer and the buyer.

jrock65 · January 2006

If the Sonata sold 400k, it would be the best selling sedan in this segment.

Toyota says that 85% of Camry sales are sedans.

85% of 431,703 is 366,948.

So Camry sedan sales in 2005 was about 367,000.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Yep you tripped me up there..

.... and if ....

stockmanjoe · January 2006

Yes its funny to see all the people having difficulty accepting Hyundai as the new kid on the block. Just wait until he Chinese unlease their fury.
Guys this has just started!!!

lightfootfl · January 2006

Thanks to you and the graduate,
I hadn't considered looking at things that way. It makes sense when you see the picture that way.

ontop · January 2006

People don't have accept anything. I can't wait until he Chinese unlease their fury too.

And what has just started? People wanting choices? The auto market is constantly changing. Look at Ford.

sonatame · January 2006

According to what I read in Wall Street, Hyundai ownes KIA. The new task for Hyundai is how to brand each line.

scape2 · January 2006

Zen, do me a favor. Go to Google. Type in "Honda problems".. Then come back an preach about Honda's great reliability.. What about the first year of the Odessey? or better yet the recalls for transmission issues on the Accords, Odesseys? or what about the CRV engine fires that are still happening?? Go to www.alldata.com and take at look at the TSB's for Honda, all years, all vehicles.. You are going to be surprised.. What about the Honda Pilot test vehicle that broke down during Edmunds testing??

ctalk · January 2006

No one said Honda's are perfect. Yes, they have their flaws here and there, but they're more reliable than Ford's according to both JD powers and CR. How about you type in Ford recalls, I think they're the automaker with the most recalls in 2005.

Let's see what Ford's doing lately...
Ford to cut up to 30,000 jobs, idle 14 plants
Struggling automaker seeks to reverse $1.6 billion loss in 2005
Click here

zen2 · January 2006

I have a 2005 Honda CR-V. Made in England. Guess what?
No recalls. No fires. Honda almost immediately pinpointed
the cause of the fires, and sent me a notice about it.
This would have taken Ford 10 years, and probably
20 or 30 deaths. Also, I believe Honda or the dealers
took responsibility for the fires, unlike Ford. There
is no comparison. Try googling Honda fires, then
Ford fires. If you want to see which has more. Remember
the Pinto?

pat · January 2006

We're talking about the Sonata, the Accord, the Camry and the Fusion here ... let's try to resist the urge to wander all around the other vehicles the manufacturers produce.

badgerfan · January 2006

I stopped into the Ford dealer I bought my current 2000 Taurus SES from and got a good look at the Fusion in the showroom. The car has simply awesome styling, inside and out and seems to be very spacious and functional, from the dash layout to the trunk. From a styling standpoint, the Fusion is really a knockout and in my opinion is tremendously better looking than Accord, Camry, Maxima, Sonata, or any current GM or Chrysler product in this size range.

They had about 8 of them in stock and had posted on the showroom glass their "no-dicker" prices for each, which ranged from $2k-$3k off MSRP. Fusion is priced right and I believe will be a big winner for Ford. Looks like you could get a V-6 version out the door for $20K plus or minus $1K or so, if you didn't go hog wild with the bells and whistles.

Too bad my Taurus is only just getting broken in, now at 5 years and 55K miles! I won't be in the market for another 4-5 years.

baggs32 · January 2006

Story here

stockmanjoe · January 2006

That is exactly right Ford, GM, Chrysler, AMC No longer the "Kings of the Hill" and who would have thunkit only a few years ago! Stand by we are in for one heck of a ride!!!!!

thegraduate · January 2006

I wouldn't do a search on Odesseys as scape2 says. Try googling the Odyssey instead.

thegraduate · January 2006

I'm afraid Ford has to overcome its stigma of underwhelming reliability just as Hyundai does. If I had to judge by what I see selling in Birmingham, I see ads selling the Sonata at $1k off (Current offer is OTD for $22,000 for a V-6 Sonata), while Fusion V-6s are going for 18,495 (last price i remember seeing for one). Hyundai may have a leg up on Ford as far as brand notoriety (trucks notwithstanding)

sonatame · January 2006

see ads selling the Sonata at $1k off (Current offer is OTD for $22,000 for a V-6 Sonata), while Fusion V-6s are going for 18,495 (last price i remember seeing for one). Hyundai may have a leg up on Ford as far as brand notoriety (trucks notwithstanding

What were the package differences between the two?

badgerfan · January 2006

Well the stigma I believe is not reality anymore, but it seems many consumers put their blinders on and refuse to take them off to recognize the vast improvements in quality that have occurred, to the point where quality is nearly a given in almost any vehicle you buy these days.

I myself have driven two Tauri, a 1990 (good old Vulcan!) for ten years and 100K miles and am now on the sixth year of my 2000 Duratech equipped Taurus and both have been extremely reliable and did not and have not developed creaks and rattles as they aged.

thegraduate · January 2006

I didn't mean to imply that the cars currently for sale by Hyundai are unreliable, just that they have the proverbial "black cloud" over them, even though it is through raining. (How's that for metaphor? :-))

I believe that American brands as a whole have some digging out to do, I'm sorry I picked on Ford, but that is the only relevant American brand in this forum.

My neighbors have a 1993 Taurus (vulcan 3.0l) that has 140,000 miles on it. Their daughter now drives it to school. I don't remember them talking about any major issues with it. It shouldn't, especially the recent vulcan-engined Tauri, since that motor has had 15 years or more to work out its kinks!

pat · January 2006

We need to stick to the vehicles in the subject and avoid the temptation to talk about all of these other vehicles that are not on topic here. Please.

sonatame · January 2006

Has anyone noticed that Sonata, Fusion and Altima have a similar look from the side. I am not talking right up close, but from 20 feet away they are very similar.

thegraduate · January 2006

I think this is true for nearly all midsizers, save for the "hippy" Camry. It's kind of thick in the middle. Perhaps it has more junk in its trunk? (Pun intended, sorry for the cheesy joke, lol)

chan101qua · January 2006

I'm looking for a mid size sedan. I work + go to school at the same time, so I am on a burget.

I have tested drove an Accord SE, and it's impressive, accept its price (I can get one at 21000 OTD).

Tested drove an Camry 06 LE with no side airbag, and like it power seat + the look is ok (I can get one at 19000 OTD). However, the handling is not as good as the Accord.

I have just tested drove an Sonata GLS today. The power seem to be a bit less compare to Acord and about equal to Camry 06. I like the long list of standard option that Sonata offer. (I can get one at 17500)

If you were me, with one would you buy?

pat · January 2006

Which one do you like the best?

rhduke00 · January 2006

A month ago I had a similar decision to make and I bought a Sonata GLS four cyl. I wanted the four cyl for fuel economy and felt it had more than enough power for me. I also test drove a similarly equipped 2006 four cyl accord and believe the accord to be a better car but only slightly better; not 5k better which was the OTD difference between the two cars. I'm very happy with my Sonata and think it's a fine car and a great value.

blnewto · January 2006

We tested most every comparable Auto back in late November and the Sonata was an easy choice for us. We've owned an Accord in the past and have had various other Japanese models over the years so we were prepared to purchase an Accord. The Sonata was just too similar for thousands less, so that tilted the playing field big time for us. If you had an initial car budget set aside, you might consider the GLS V6, you should be able to get that for the same price as a 4 banger CamCord.
BTW, we're now getting 26MPG city, 30 MPG hwy in our 06 GLSV6 Sonata, and really love the drive!

chan101qua · January 2006

After test drove all 3 of them, the Accord is the best. However, there's about $4000 different between Accord and Sonata

.

backy · January 2006

Personally I think they are all quite different from the side, particularly in the C pillar.

ctc1 · January 2006

My test drive opinions were exactly like your. I felt the accord was the best of the bunch but only by a small margin. The $5000 differance was to much to ignore so I purchased A GLS 4 Sonata and have been very happy with it. I'm one of those people who never thought I would buy A hyundai but times have changed. In 1979 I took A chance with A Datsun for similar reason and was happy with the car for many years. I feel the Hyundai's are the Hondas and Toyotas of this era. One more point if your financing that $5000 differance grows even larger.

thegraduate · January 2006

I'm a die-hard Honda guy, but in your situation I'd go with the Sonata. May I ask if you've looked at the LX Accord, instead of the SE? The SE is more expensive than the LX model. (The LX is comparable to a GLS Sonata or an LE Camry). I drive an Accord EX and love every mile I drive in it. Good luck on your search, and be sure to let us know what you pick! You can't really go wrong with these three.

gujuguy · January 2006

Why not Camry for a thousand more ? I had similar choice and I chose (not for me but for my relatives) Camry LE, I got it for 19000 OTD. I guess Sonata you can get it for 17500 or 18000 OTD. Down the road probability is that Sonata will depreciate more than camry. Its no brainer. My sympathy is with Hyundai (I hate Toyota's stiff dealers and options list) but when it comes to money I think Camry is better bet. IF difference is more that 3000 bucks, I would consider Sonata.

backy · January 2006

Just curious, did that $19k Camry have traction control? VSC? Side airbags/curtain airbags? Alloy wheels? Wood grain trim? Fog lamps? MP3 stereo? (I assume it had an automatic.) If it did have all those features at that price I would be surprised. A Sonata GLS equipped like that would run me about $16k + T&L, maybe less if I could find a dealer willing to part with one for less than invoice (which some buyers seem to be doing). If you could do without alloys, woodgrain trim, and foglamps the price would be $500 less. I saw a post the other day about someone who got a new Sonata GLS V6 with moonroof for $16,400 + T&L. That is certainly more than $3000 less than a comparably-equipped Camry.

kdhspyder · January 2006

This subject came up on the Ford thread so I figured it was better to answer it here. It also does follow up on the post by gujuguy above

Callmedrfill wrote:
..Toyota, for one, will more or less sell you the same car, with similar quality for very different prices, just differences in styling, features, and power. Without "badge engineering" them. They have distinction. And seperate identities. And both have value in their classes.

As you probably know I sell Camry's, et.al. and I've driven them ( 4 ) nearly 500000 mi in 15 yrs. but I was shocked to see that the body panels and seams and gaps and paint color were identical on both the '05 ES330 and LE Camry. They were the same vehicle except as you say for features/power and some minor stylistic tweaks.

This confirms something I have felt for the last 500000 miles of driving; it wasnt just a 'base' Camry. It felt better built. Literally nothing ever went wrong and there were no odd creaks during turns or noises or rattles even up to 180K when I normally traded.

Seeing the the two side by side only confirmed my feeling.

In reply to backy above. This is one of the imponderables of why the Camry seems to do so well in the hands of the public inspite of it's mundane look ( til now ) and mediocre performance and relative poor comparos and relatively high price. It feels and drives like more than it appears to be.

w9cw · January 2006

I spent 9 months looking at Accord's, Camry's, Sonata's, etc., and a high percentage of 2005 Camry LE's I looked at and drove from March 2005 to December 2005 had some body panel alignment anomalies. The seam gaps on the front bumper always differed on the left to right sides where it met up with the front fenders. And, the left and right rear doors, especially the beltline strip and upper sheet metal creases never exactly lined up with the rear portion of the front doors' strip and creases. And, at least 1 out of 4 had some fit and finish problems with the interior upper trim on the driver's door. Again, this was over a period of 9 months, and after carefully inspecting dozens of Camry's on two dealers lots in central Illinois, and driving LE's at least 10 times.

No car is certainly perfect, but I expected more from Toyota, especially after hearing how fantastic their fit and finish is. Other than the noted anomalies, they were apparently assembled very well. But, I think they had a production and/or assembly problem is those areas in the Georgetown, KY plant.

Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

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