Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion

18687899192

Comments

  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    "I am sure you are also the type who takes out an equity loan on his house to buy a brand new $10,000 plasma TV. But you are certainly not alone and its a free country to spend you money as you pls. I guess you can't take it with you!"

    Buddy I have a degree in finance with a specialization in personal financial planning. Trust I know how to spend my money and use debt wisely. I told you I traded in my 2001 Altima for $10K and got a 2004 Mazda6i for $15K. Can you say deal! Money is meant to not just purchase what you need but also what you want. From your logic, since I am single and do not have much need for extra space, I should just buy an Aveo and drive it into the ground. With all the money I save I should invest and make money. My pursuit in life is not just to make money the most efficient way. I want to have some fun. My $5K car note is for 48 months and I over pay. Trust me, it is not killing me. So if I can upgrade again to a V6 Sonata or Fusion that should run me about $18K, pay down $2K and trade in my car for $11K for more options, more luxury, more speed, and a little more spice, why wouldn't I? Some people take trips across the world for the experience of it all. They could save their money and invest it. But would that really equal the joy that they had seeing the beaches of Barbados? If you understand that, than you understand me when I take the road that I know has sharp corners in my Mazda. I want to own an SUV at some point, a Pontiac Solstice, and a sexy looking coupe. Traveling may be your thing, driving is mine.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    What have you seen?

    I have seen their financial statements and annual report.

    I have seen the data on them on Hoovers

    I have seen their SEC filings.

    Why is it hard for you Hyundai boys to accept that Hyundais finances can't be scrutinized more like American companies?

    You mean like how enrons was scrutinized?

    My point is that Hyundai can take a hit to buy market share in America that an American company can't.

    Wow I never knew that taking a hit ment that your after tax and net income goes up.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    As I said earlier, it started at $4K difference then $8K and now Congrats zen2 you've bumped it to $10K difference. Why not push it to $12K? Let's be realistic with these numbers! Also OPDS stands for Occupant Position Detection System which means the side air bag in pass. seat will turn off if that person is in a unsafe position, doesn't weigh enough(65LBS), or isn't sitting high enough in the seat where the air bag can hurt them. In 2005 of ALL midsize cars tested on side impacts only 3 passed the Accord, Camry, and the Malibu w/ side curtains and of those 3 only the Accord scored as Good. We will see this year but once again history not on Hyundai's side.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    Could it be because it will bring the thief more $$? Don't hear the Hyundai brand being stolen much do ya? Tells you what people other than you think about their cars.

    You do know that most cars are stolen to be chopped up and sold as spare parts? A high demand for spare parts for a car usually means that that car will be stolen more often. Now what does that tell you?

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    Yeah it means that you see a lot of Honda's still on the road where as the Hyundai's are all in the junk yard! ;)
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Actually, it is the late model Honda's that are on the most stolen list. Honda's are most likely stolen because their parts are needed in the tuner market.

    1. 1995 Honda Civic
    2. 1989 Toyota Camry
    3. 1991 Honda Accord
    4. 1994 Dodge Caravan
    5. 1994 Chevrolet C/K pickup
    6. 1997 Ford F-150
    7. 2003 Dodge Ram
    8. 1990 Acura Integra
    9. 1988 Toyota pickup
    10. 1991 Nissan Sentra

    I doubt thieves will steal 91/92/93...etc Hyundai's because they were so cheaply made! But I admit that has changed now, the company made a big turn.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    Or it could mean that Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais. Think about that.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    I also agree that they are better made but keep in mind where they came from, there was no where to go but up. Hyundai is getting better but I(my opinion) just can not agree like some here that think the Sonata is a better car than the Accord or Camry.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    I understand your point, you don't seem to understand mine. If there are no spare parts that still work on a Hyundai and there are NO Hyundais that still run you don't need to steal or can't find a Hyundai to steal. Think about that please. How many Older Hyundai's do you still see on the road? Humm...
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Thefts of older cars also may reflect growth in the so-called tuner market, where older, mainly Japanese-made cars are modified for road racing. - This seems like a better reason.

    Click here

    jpnewt makes a good point that you should think about.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    How many Older Hyundai's do you still see on the road?

    I see quite a few. Even saw a scope a while back.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    That still doesn't change the fact that most cars are stolen to be chopped up and sold for spare parts.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • wouldn't trust the other two, but would definetely take both over a european car

    Wow dude! hold your horses. Are you really that close-minded in your thinking. ToyHon is the by no means the holly grail of automobiles. Take a chill pill and checkout the rest. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in a ToyHon, but I don't think they are all that bad, just plain boring. I don't care about resale value, or whatever status ToyHon offers, NOT! Plus, I live in Brooklyn, NY where a ToyHon is parked on every block. Plus, why would I wan't to drive a boring car that requires me to pay higher insurance premium, uses premium gas, and is Brooklyn's, most stolen. I am not bashin TOYHon, it's just that I get a little miffed when folks like post stuff like this. Settle done dude. I will take any European car over ToyHon any day of the week....Chris out!!
    Oh and Fusion, Sonata and Madza6 too
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    So what you think is that Honda's need more spare parts than Hyundai (and that is the reason it's on the most stolen list)? Are you trying to say that Honda's are poorly made, or inferior to Hyundai?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    Please don't put words in my mouth. Just stating the fact that most cars are stolen for spare parts. Anything else is inferred by you.

    FWIW I believe the NHTSA has Dodge as the highest, but they use a different method to determine their list. They go by number of cars stolen and manufactured. So that a car where 100k were made and 100 were stolen rates higher than one where 500K cars were made and 200 were stolen.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Go to KBB. Plug in a 10 year old Hyundai along side of a Honda or Camry of the same class. There is a difference.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No Honda Accord uses premium fuel; regular unleaded is all that is necessary to get 244 hp (166 hp in I-4).

    I get miffed when people post their presumptions without bothering to research them, too.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Or it could mean that Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais. Think about that.

    You did state this.

    They way you worded it, made it seem as if Honda's were not as well made as Hyundai's. Unless needing more spare parts is a positive thing? Well, I guess I was wrong......

    Just stating the fact that most cars are stolen for spare parts.
    Yes they are, it relates to the fact that Honda's are very popular on the tuner market to. You stated on the top post that Honda's needed more spare parts. You should also consider the fact that they are the most popular on the tuner market.

    I am just questioning your reasoning. You stated that Honda's need more spare parts than Hyundai's. I disagree with that.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    So you will take a Euro car with ALL their electrical problems and quality assurance problems over a Toyota or Honda, that sure does make a lot of sense. Oh by the way Honda's don't use premium gas! Go Yankees :P
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    My feeling is that when peple buy a Hyundai in the back of their mind they're really wondering if they did the right thing, so to help convince themselves that they made the right choice, they'll say stuff like, "Yeah I bought this Sonata and it's really a good car, no problems, great warranty, blah blah blah" but Honda owners don't feel the need to say anything about their car because they know it's a high quality, refined car built from a company with a proven track record. I think in general, the people who are always saying how great something they bought is, are the ones really unsure and they keep trying to convince themselves and others in the correctness of their purchase. I think they feel if they have another person say to them, "yeah, that was a good choice" then it makes them feel better. On the other hand, people comfortable with their decision/choices have no need to talk about them over and over and try to convince others about the rightness of their decision/choice. Anyway, enough psych talk. So that's why I don't think you'll see a lot of Honda or Toyota forum members talking about the quality or refineness of their vehicles...everyone already knows it. It's the Hyundai owners that are trying to convince the rest of us ;)

    Also, just because a car is of the same size, shape, configuration, and has the same features of another car, doesn't mean that it's as refined. You can buy two of anything (printers, computers, speakers, tiles for your kitchen floor, etc) that will all functionally do the same thing, but the reason why one may cost more than the other is because it's the stuff you don't see that makes one better than the other. The smoothness of the transmission, the longevity of the components, the feel of the steering, braking, etc. So again, you can't just look down the option list of two vehicles and if everything matches just go buy the cheaper one and expect it to be the same car. For some people, those things don't matter, and there are plent of 'Kias & Hyundai's for them to buy.

    Just like you can go to Walmart and buy an apple or go to local grocer and find one fresh from the tree. You'll eat an apple either way, but they won't taste the same.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    BTW...if everyone says that what I've said is just a bunch of BS that's okay ;)
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I have seen their SEC filings.

    What SEC filings have you read? I can't find one for Hyundai Motors in the past 2 years according to Edgar.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749
    On the other hand, people comfortable with their decision/choices have no need to talk about them over and over and try to convince others about the rightness of their decision/choice.

    Yet notice how many Honda and Toyota owners feel the need to (over and over) try to convince the Hyundai owners that their Hondas and Toyotas were worth the price premium. If they were really comfortable with their purchases, wouldn't a simple, "I'm glad you are happy with your Sonata; I think the Camcord was the right choice for me" suffice without all the stuff about Hyundai's financials and the unreliability of Hyundais from 10-15 years ago?

    Here is why I think a lot of people are looking at the Sonata. Some people (including me) look for a car to do a certain job. They have specific requirements. For a mid-sized family car, those usually include safety, comfort, decent handling, decent power, lots of people and luggage space, reliable, economical, and maybe good looking (in the eye of the beholder). What I think has happened with the '06 Sonata is that it has crossed the magic "bar" for a large number of mid-sized family car shoppers. Is it "better" than the Accord or Camry, in every respect or even overall? Based on your criteria, maybe or maybe not. But that is irrelevant. What is important is, does the car cross the buyer's personal "bar"? If so, the next question is, how much does it cost? If someone can buy a car that meets their needs for several thousand dollars less than another one that meets their needs, which one will they choose? And if the less expensive car doesn't meet their needs, whatever those are (maybe one of them is that they like knowing their car has a long-term record for reliability, and that is worth a lot of $$$$ to them), then the fact one car costs thousands less than the other is irrelevant.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    Actually I did do that for my car (2000 Elantra with 130K miles) and compared it to a 2000 civic with 130K miles that would have had close to the same MSRP. Guess what, there wasn't much difference around $200.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    Again I never said anything other than most cars are stolen for spare parts. Just because you inferred it doesn't mean I said it.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    You made some interesting points, I was just wondering if there was a between the lines comparison in image ie; Hyundai=Wal-mart and Honda/Toyota=Norstroms?
  • travlertravler Posts: 138
    Guys....guys....guys. These Sonata posters have already purchased the vehicle. They are not going to believe they made a bad decision until the vehicle lets them down. They may be lucky and get a couple humdred thousand just to prove they can. When things start to rattle, squeak, and fall off they'll silently dissappear.

    If they haven't experienced an Accord or Camry they really can't make valid comparisons. The fact is that statistically (so far) the Accord or Camry will last longer, have fewer mechanical breakdowns, have better fit and finish, less rattles and creaks, etc. etc. And, I mean long term statistics. Not just a couple years.

    In reference to your investment analysis, there's always risk in investments. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. Not a good comparison. You could have lost as well.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    #2731 of 2750 Re: SONATA RATED [jpnewt] by snakeweasel United States of America Feb 06, 2006 (1:26 pm)
    Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
    Replying to: jpnewt (Feb 06, 2006 1:22 pm)

    Or it could mean that Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais. Think about that.


    This looks more than, "most cars are stolen for spare parts."

    I don't see how, "most cars are stolen for spare parts," can translate into, "Hondas need more spare parts than Hyundais."
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,790
    My feeling is that when peple buy a Hyundai in the back of their mind they're really wondering if they did the right thing, so to help convince themselves that they made the right choice, they'll say stuff like, "Yeah I bought this Sonata and it's really a good car, no problems, great warranty, blah blah blah"

    Maybe its because they did buy a really good car, no problems and it has a great warranty? I say my car is a really good car not because I am trying to convince myself of anything, but because the first time anything went wrong (a bad sensor replaced in a few hours) was at over 130K miles.

    My feeling is that Honda owners keep talking about resale value is to justify paying thousands more for something not much, if at all, better.

    It's the Hyundai owners that are trying to convince the rest of us

    We are trying to spread the truth bro, trying to spread the truth.

    but the reason why one may cost more than the other is because it's the stuff you don't see that makes one better than the other.

    Not true in a lot of cases. don't fall into the trap that paying more makes something better. Trust me, slap a designer name on something, charge 5 times the price and people will buy it.

    Now for someone who just said that Honda owners don't need to talk up their cars you just did a lot of that.

    If you want to pay more for the same, go for it. Just don't tell me I am buying junk and trying to justify it. You sound like the guy who goes to a fancy restaurant buys a $25 tough, chewy steak and proclaims "this is the best steak I ever had, much better than your $7.50 tender juicy and tasty one".

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    I'm a little confused because maybe I think $18,000 is a substantial amount of money. Long term reliability is a major factor in buying a vehicle at any price and that's why I feel more comfortable with Honda. Hyundai while getting better still does not have the history of being reliable. I'm glad some of you have had good luck but there is more negative comments(industry)in my opinion than positive. Warranty is great but you can't drive a Warranty.
This discussion has been closed.