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Fourth article down: a good summary of the situation.
Depreciation
Finance charges/Opportunity cost (this is where purchase price comes in)
Maintenance
Repairs
Insurance
Fuel
So once those are all taken into account, you don't add the difference in purchase price on top of it... That is reflected in the Depreciation and Finance charges.
regards,
kyfdx
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SO---the reason the 911 ends up costing somewhat more for maintenance and repair is not the COST of these items but the FREQUENCY....a 911 has a more rigorous maintenance schedule than a Corvette because it needs it.
In turn, for the more rigorous maintainence, you'll generally get a Porsche that will last longer and give higher miles than a Corvette---if you care about longevity. I realize for many Americans this is a non-issue.
I know part of the Benz business plan was to cut down maintenance schedules on their products to give owners some relief. Not sure if this was a good idea.
They do go on at length about what they like about the Company.
A 996 GT3 crate engine will cost a lot more than that. GT3 engines don't suffer from RMS leaks and are used in the race cars in ALMS and Grand-Am.
GT3 engines are based on the 993 block (the old air cooled block).
link
Porsche makes a lot of money from regular 996s, 997s, and Boxsters because they don't have the high-quality engine in the GT3, GT2, and Turbo.
A GT3 engine is a whole other animal. That much, huh? Well probably. I know GT3 brake rotors are something like $8,000.
Yeah, I don't much like the 996 engine for quality either.
stupid Porsche product....the damn thing runs too quiet, my wife says...it darn near got her in trouble...going so fast and no noise....the engine hardly even working....2800 rpm only...speed = "classsified"
would I get a corvette ? I would love one....if I had no kids.. Or even a 911. Porsche may be slightly higher to maintain...but it seems to me that all ....ALL ....car makers are catching up....take any car to the dealer...and you are talking about hundreds of dollars...then on to thousands. You can find a good mechanic to work on your Porsche for thousands less than the dealer...if you try.
went to friends' house in Riverside....boy....... they use a cayenne as everyday cruiser...saves the big stuff for special occasions....
new Mercedes/McLaren SLR with 350 miles and new Maybach 65 in garage. Wife tried the adjustable rear seats..nice... I tried the SLR.....man... if you are taller than me (5'8"), then you may bang your head on the gullwing doors....seats are snug...good for performance...bad for long trips....
Hmm...I still like the idea of a Porsche super sedan....... so do the friends....
I agree that the idiotic Cayenne may be a little late to the ball...now that gas prices are up.... stupid Porsche product... :P
But to veer back on topic a bit, you know how it is...one can compare cars on paper and they look very close. Then you drive them and you say "oh, I get it". Is a tricked out Camaro really a Corvette? No.
Porsche is great at marketing that's true but I have to say they do deliver what they promise. Of course, sometimes you get what you didn't want, too
the Cayman is doing well..handles great...and looks pretty good.
Of course... It would be nice if Porsche would simplify some systems and increase quality... There are a few complaints about Cayenne that needs ironing out....
the quality of the 911 and 986 are really good.
Porsche Parade was held in Hershey , PENN, recently. More than 1700 attended , with 500 porsches on display. Next time it will be on the West Coast, Portland , Oregon....
-Jason
If it weren't for North American demand there might not be many convertible Euro supercars.
But the US market is a BIG market if you can afford to get into it, and the automaker has to cater to it or face the consequences.
We don't like everything the Europeans like and vice-versa. They like hatches and generally are not all that fond of ragtops, and we are the opposite.
I'll take my MGB as a GT, my M3, Z3 and Z4 as coupes, my 911, 968 and 944 sans Cabriolet, my 300ZX with t-tops, my 350Z with a slicktop, and cancel my Boxster S in favor of a Cayman.
The only car I can think of off the top of my head that I might prefer as a convertible was the 2nd generation RX-7, and it was a dog.
Other than that I’m American. Luv the two-seat drop top.
;-)
a Boxster S and a Cayman S. :confuse:
I guess my tastes are Euro-American. :shades:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
But convertibles are risky these days with sun damage to skin etc...you gotta be careful. And of course there's the security issue---park a ragtop in San Francisco streets overnight-----don't think so!
I think Porsche is reading the USA correctly with the Cayman coupe. Most Porsche owners I know drive coupes not converts.
Yeah, there are aspects of Europeans habits that are very appealing, even if our refrigerators are bigger than theirs....
I expect Porsche built the Turbo cabrio and C4 cabrio models with the US market in mind.
Yet Porsche's superexotic Carrera GT, unlike it's rivals from Ferrari, Saleen, McLaren-Merc and others has a removable top.
It doesn't make sense to me either but then superexotics aren't very sensible are they? :shades:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I'm not sure at what speed exactly a convertible becomes unbearable without a helmet but I do know on motorcycles without a fairing it's about 85 mph.
If not the wind, the noise would be deafening.
Check your logic on that one. The maximum speed limit in about 98% of the U.S. is 70 mph or less. If I took your logic that a convertible doesn't make sense in a high performance car, I might conclude that a high performance car doesn't make sense in the U.S. period.
I recognized that in buying a 911S Cab, I was giving up some extreme limit performance to the coupe model. But that's not something I'm going to notice 99.5% of the time. On the other hand, of my 2,900 miles in the first 6 weeks, the top has been down about 50% of those miles, at speeds up to 75+ mph. And putting my girls in the back of a coupe would have been a near impossibility - nothing to do with size/space, everything to do with "fun". I can't even complain that my highway trips with the top up are less comfortable. I'm sure that the coupe is a little quieter, but the 911 Cab is like an S-class Mercedes compared to my former S2000.
So, the fact that the Cayman can outperform the Boxster S at it's limits would still have me questioning, how important is that for someone who isn't going to take the car to the track? Remember, the Boxste S has a top speed of over 165 and, prior to the Cayman, was the fastest car through the slalom ever tested by Road and Track, Enzo included. I respect those who prefer the coupe to a convertible for other reasons - and I used to myself, primarily becaouse of aestheitcs. But the Boxster S and 911 Cab S don't give up much in performance to anyone who hasn't qualified for the Formula 1 circuit.
I'd love to see Porsche come out with a little small engine sprint coupe.
"Most" people don't buy a 911, Audi TT, Boxster, Viper or a Vette because they're fast .. most people buy them to "look" fast ...
Terry
If "fast" is defined as a 182 mph top speed, no, that was not a factor in my decision to get a 911 S. I could have been just as happy with the base model's 177 mph, or the Boxster S's 167 mph. Heck, virtually all of BMW's and Mercedes are limited to 130 or 155 in the U.S.
But I did buy the 911 S based upon performance - quickness, handling, and that highly subjective driving "feel". If all I wanted to do was buy a car that looked fast and didn't car about performance, I could have saved a boatload of bills. But that's the opposite of my general preference for substance over image.
You may be right about the Audi TT - that people buy them to look fast - since of the cars you mentioned, that one doesn't much in the way of performance to back its looks. And there are others, like the Lexus SC, that charge even more for the looks without the performance.
Shifty,
I also agree with your "less can be more" opinion. I had a great time with my former S2000 that made the most of a 2.0 liter engine and a 9,000 rpm redline. You couldn't have traded me a Viper or Corvette Z06 even up for it. They may have been "faster" but they were well below it in visceral performance and fun to drive, at least here in the US.
I didn't pick any particular vehicles for any particular reasons ....
Do I believe "you" bought "your" 911S because of the performance, quickness, handling, etc etc .. yes, I do.! ....... but 75/80% of the buyers purchase a Lambo, 911, DB-7, Vette, Ferrari, Ford GT, etc, because of two things ... the looks and what "crowd" thinks -- and that has nothing to do with the performance, handling, quickness, etc ........
Terry.
I have been in the 90-100 mph range in more than one ragtop and never found the breeze too extreme.
I will grant that a driver might lose a toupee in an open car at 120+ mph.
I may be wrong, but that's where I think Porsche may be a little different - at least if you compare the 911 to the others in its general price class. Especially the new 997 S.
Many years ago, long before I could have afforded a 911, I questioned why someone whould buy a 911 Turbo instead of a sleek Ferrari 328, Lotus Espirt, or Lamborghini Countach. I thought - and in some ways still do - that the Ferrari was the best looking sports car on the planet. For me, Ferrari defined "exotic", whereas Porsche was more aptly described as "teutonic".
But, turn the clock forward about 20 years, and when I got to the point where I could afford a nice sports car, the 911's virtues became meaningful. Not the least of which is that it is a car you can drive every day. Perhaps if I were in a higher socioeconomic bracket I would be singing the virtues of a Ferrari that only comes out on sunny weekends once a month. But in 7 weeks, I'm guessing that my 2,900 miles exceeds the average annual mileage of most Ferrari owners by 50%.
I certainly would not dispute that some 911's are purchased for purely its "looks" by status seekers looking to impress the crowds. But I've also run into a fair number of other 911 owners that are about as practical as they come.
Now, the Lamborghini is a different matter. Anyone that would subject themselves to the brutality of driving that car on public roads is either a complete hard core masochist or a seeking the attention you describe (or both).
So I think a lot of the poseurs quickly shuffle off to a Lexus SC430 once they've sobered up to what a Porsche really is.
Some people do criticize Porsche for not giving people "their money's worth" but that depends on what you think is "worth" the money.
There is the old cliche that the most brilliant performer/film director/musicians actually create their audience rather than please a ready-made one.
Randy
Obviously a Porsche is worth the money because lots of people buy them. The question answers itself.
... **Some people do criticize Porsche for not giving people "their money's worth" but that depends on what you think is "worth" the money **
Yep, that pretty much sums it up ........................
Terry.
It isn't possible to spend a lot of time driving at 10/10ths on public hiways. There are many days when it's just nice to be in an open car basking in the scenery and the atmosphere (in your case with your daughters there enjoying it with you).
Enjoy those girls while they are with you! Tempus fugit, as it say on the clock.
Cayenne sales for the month: -46.8%
Cayenne sales 2005 year to date: -26.5%
Boxster sales for month: +362%
Boxster sales 2005 to date: +210%
911 sales for month: +16.8%
911 sales 2005 to date: +2.0%
regards,
kyfdx
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Porsche needs the volume/income the Cayenne provides, although the Boxster and 911 combined outsell it.
IMO the Panamera sedan (with coupe and convertible variants) would replace Cayenne's volume and be much more in character with Porsche's image.
and they didn't win at LeMans until the emergence of the Porsche 917 in 1970. Before that there were scads of in-class wins that earned for Porsche the reputation as the sturdiest, best engineered of sports cars.
The expenditures involved in co-engineering the Cayenne took Porsche out of big time sports car racing for seven years which is why I still hate the thing. I'm starting to get over it since Porsche's new RS Spyder LMP-2 is now running in ALMS.
It took an in-class win in the LMP-2 class at it's maiden race this fall at Laguna Seca. A Porsche took 3 of the 4 classes at Laguna Seca, losing the overall and LMP-1 in which they did not compete.
There are some who believe that the Penske-Porsche RS Spyder is capable of
winning ALMS or LeMans races outright. I wouldn't know but it seems possible since Audi seems to be winding down it's LMP-1 program.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The Zytek chassis became the 15th different marque to win in the ALMS (and sixth in P1), and its engine is the 13th different one to post an ALMS victory (sixth in class).
Just for the record ...
Or you can e-mail me about 928s and I can help you.