Subaru Forester

p0926 · November 2007

IRT sight-seeing suggestions... Vegas and Hoover Dam in NV, the Grand Canyon in AZ, Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef and Arches Natl Parks in southern UT. Then take I-70 east thru Vail & Breckenridge and then drive thru Rocky Mtn Natl Park (assuming the road is open). Leaving RMNP you'll go thru Boulder. Colorado Springs and Pikes Peak are only a little over an hour south of Denver and worth the visit. Once past the Rockies, there's not a lot of to see. I-80 thru Nebraska is the longer route but a less boring drive than I-70 (the stretch from Denver to Kansas City is unbelievably monotonous).

Either vehicle should handle the trip with no problems. The Audi will give you a nicer quieter ride with somewhat better mpg while the Forester will haul more stuff and give you slightly more peace of mind that you can handle whatever Mother Nature sends your way. Of course the Forester also expands your ability to take the road less traveled

As for driving 3000 miles with a 2-month old?!?!? No thanks!!!!!!!! :P

-Frank

gmginsfo · November 2007

Hey, that sounds like a great RT! My own '03 Forester XS is just around 57K and has about 5K on its Goodyears and I'd love to find the time to do something similar. I'd stick to I-70 and its byroads if I were you; I-80 is b-o-r-i-n-g, as I well know from having done it in the opposite direction from Chicago. When you cross the Wabash into IN, head up north a bit to Turkey Run SP, which has a number of spectacular limestone cliffs, "backbones" and other cool rock formations, all of which will be in their Spring glory then. The Inn there is a nice old-fashioned SP hotel full of character and is pretty reasonable. If you belong to Triple A, which I also recommend, check out their Tourbooks for your route; they're loaded with really cool stuff that very few people bother to see but then wish they had. And yes, I'd definitely take the Subie. You never know what kind of weather you'll get along that route and it'll be up to the worst of it.

p0926 · November 2007

A new Forester owner (mb789) in the "Give Us Your Report" forum asked what your favorite Subaru colors are. Which got me to thinking... and I came to the conclusion that there aren't many

IMO Subaru has had a rotten color selection these past few years. They've offered your basic white, silver, red, gold and black (along with a mostly decent blue). But even those basic colors haven't been executed very well. The reds have been dull; the white, silver and gold plain; and they even screwed up the black by adding multi-colored flecks to the paint (I'm not sure if the current black is any better). They used to have a pretty forest green but I don't think it's available any longer.

Were I in charge for a day, I'd offer a nice deep "midnight" black, a pearlescent white, a crisper red, a darker silver, bring back the forest green, and Id drop the gold just because :P Id have to see the Newport Blue again in person before deciding whether to keep or change it. Id also bring back the widespread use of the two-tone paint scheme. The black, red and blue (and possibly silver) would all look great with titanium lower body panels

Anybody else have an opinion?

-Frank

aatherton · November 2007

I think the Aspen White is too stark, the Satin White Pearl is not pearly enough, the Dark Gray Metallic is too dark, WR BLue Mica is too loud, the Topaz Gold is boring unless it be two-tone, the XT Limiteds should also come in two-tones like the LLBs, and the LLBs should also come with manual transmissions and boost.
If I could find this combination, I think I would buy a Forester: Automatic, Turbo, Beige Leather, and Dark Gray Metallic over Silver Steel Metallic.
In other words, a combination of what is now the LLB and the XT Ltd.

aatherton · November 2007

Purpose of a spoiler is to break up the airflow coming off a tapered body, which reduces drag. The fact that "streamlined" cars have excessive drag behind them was discovered by a fellow named Kamm, and led to flat backs for some cars (example: Corvette) and spoilers for others (example: Porsche).
A box like the Forester is inherently Kamm-backed, so the spoiler serves no purpose other than decoration unless the open slot between the spoiler and the window can direct a little airflow down over the window.
The rear window becomes dusty in the still air behind the car. A moving stream of air across the window, such as generated by a real deflector, prevents dust from settling.

ateixeira · November 2007

Yep, but is the deflector still around? I've only seen them on gen 1 Foresters (98-02).

Having said that, I never had one and it wasn't too bad. My wife's 02 Legacy is much worse about collecting dust.

ateixeira · November 2007

I like the blue but I had an Escort that color and loved the paint.

p0926 · November 2007

Hey give me some credit here! Naturally I checked to confirm that the dust deflector was still listed as an option :P

-Frank

brainlessbozo · November 2007

Thanks guys for the suggestions. FYI, I have marked all your points of interest on my GPS software, and will figure on how to join the points so I don't retrace my steps. Since this is going to be end of march (most likely), we are likely to run into some inclement weather in UT/CO. So, we are taking the Forester. Now, I have to figure on adding 2 small auxillary driving lamps (not fogs) for the long stretches of highway. Any ideas? I want to keep the stock look of the car.... so no major drilling or light bars.

subarugirl555 · November 2007

Subaru has really gone to the other extreme in the Color segment. Gone are the days of the Bright Purples and Greens I guess. The Dark Grey Metallic is quite beautiful in person. It will also sell well as a private sale or on the dealer lot when it's used. Go for this or Silver whenever you can!

ateixeira · November 2007

You win, then.

killer2 · November 2007

Can't anyone answer if the lower aft control arm bushing on an '04 FXT is oil filled or not?

John

aatherton · November 2007

I have never heard of an oil filled suspension bushing and don't see how one could work.
I looked at the part in AllSubaru.com and it looks like a rubber bushing in a metal casing for bolting to the control arm.
So you have completely eliminated all possibility that oil could get onto the bushing from some other source?

killer2 · November 2007

Until they changed to a solid rubber/metal engine mount a lot of aircraft used oil/gel filled mounts. And when they got to a certain point they would leak. That's why I'm asking if maybe Subaru is using this technology. The area around the bushing is free from oil and the bushing itself is oozing the stuff. I just don't want to order the bushing until I get a definitive answer.

Thanks,
John

tucsonlady · November 2007

Hi everyone, I am a medically retired woman, recently in a car accident w/a Plmouth Grand Voyager--TOTALLED! The people said I was lucky to be alive.
Now, looking to buy a good reliable car that will hold in value, that is under $8K, and has low maintenance, easy to get in and out of and good family vehicle. The problem is, I have never owned or even knew anyone that owned a subaru, but from all research I have done, subaru's hold their value. I can't seem to find any links that will show me the maintenance costs of this particular year, parts cost etc. I change my own transmission & engine oil, so I want to make sure that is easy to do as well. I have found 99 forester L for $6950 w/99K miles. Can you give me some feedback please?

ateixeira · November 2007

2002 and earlier Forester has some issues with the gaskets and the wheel bearings, so those would be the things to look for.

If you take it to a mechanic, have him inspect the wheel bearings and maybe do a compression test on the cylinders, or at least check for oil leaks.

If those have not failed at 99k miles, they probably never will.

tucsonlady · November 2007

Thank you so much, going for a test drive in a bit. Unfortunately, mechanic is off til next week, so cannot offer to buy until I drive it, and he checks it. Appreciate your response!

phil2000 · November 2007

Two weeks ago the pulley went and cause the timing belt to jump. Repair ran $775.00 on my 2000 Forester. But the engine misses now and the dealer (who I am not happy with) said I have valve damage but did not say which ones. I wonder did he put the belt on correctly. The engine had 254,000 on it. How can I check the timing myself as well as the compression? Also, eBay has the CD version off the service manuals for $15.00 are they good ones? Thanks

hypnosis44 · November 2007

Does anyone know if the LL Bean Load Leveler system (discontinued for the 2008 model year) can be fitted to other models of the Forester?

rsholland · November 2007

I would think so. This rear-only auto-leveling hydraulic system is offered on Foresters and Outbacks in many other markets, and has been in use for years.

Bob

aatherton · November 2007

"... the spoiler serves no purpose other than decoration unless the open slot between the spoiler and the window can direct a little airflow down over the window.The rear window becomes dusty in the still air behind the car. A moving stream of air across the window, such as generated by a real deflector, prevents dust from settling."

That''s what I posted earlier this month. Now I have just bought a 2008 LL Bean that came with a spoiler, and have put 200 miles on it. I also have a 2006 Scion xB with no spoiler.
In 200 miles the Scion's rear window would be covered with dust. The Forester's window does not have any dust.
I would not have paid $350 for the Forester's spoiler if I had any choice. But the slotted area in it does work as a deflector and keep dust off the window.

paisan · November 2007

The only problem I see about installing the load-leveling is that it's likely very expensive and only available from the dealer.

-mike

phil2000 · November 2007

My 2000 Forester had no spoiler and I drove it some 254,000 miles. Very little dust collected on the rear window. I had more of a problem with the rear wiper. It had only two setting on or off, no intermittent. I would not opt for a spoiler in a future purchase.

phil2000 · November 2007

I have decided to do the repair myself. I found a shop that will do the valve job for $180 plus parts (2-3 day turnaround). A dealership said all the gaskets I need will run about $150. All I need now is the manuals and another car for about 10 days.

bob183 · December 2007

My moonroof won't competely close - it stops about 6 inches short, just as it hits the spring ramps. Holding those down doesn't help. Also, strangely, the one-touch has stopped working. The manual crank into the motor won't close the roof either. No sign of bits of lego or chewing gum in the tracks... does anyone have any suggestions?

p0926 · December 2007

Well I just got a new set of tires. I replaced a set of Avons with 30k miles on them. They still had some tread left but one of them had a slow leak from a previously patched puncture. This time I went with the Kumho Ecsta ASX which is very reasonably priced for a UHP All-Season tire and gets pretty good reviews. I'll let you know what I think after I put some miles on them.

-Frank

ateixeira · December 2007

FWIW, CR rated them highly. No lower priced tire performed better. Many higher priced tires performed worse.

gmginsfo · December 2007

My luck at Budget's ORD location continues: this time I managed to get an '08 Forester with 140 miles on it when I picked up my rental car for Xmas - and at only $175 a week! Since we had all kinds of weather during my stay, with temps between the teens and the 40s, I finally got to use and appreciate the heated seats, which allowed me to cruise over to the 7-11 for my morning coffee clad only in sweats and a lumberjack shirt. (And thankfully, this 7-11 still uses the stable styrofoam cups and doesn't try to pass itself off as a $tarbuck$ with the new paper (read, flimsy), "green" ones!) I took it out into the countryside, or what's left of it in Chicagoland, and played around on snowy, muddy roads a bit, and it did not disappoint. The extra 8 horses in this engine were a gratifying improvement over the 165 in my '03 Forester, and it was noticeably quicker when merging onto the expressways, which is what freeways are called in the Midwest. It also seemed quieter, but this may have been a sympathetic aural reaction to the lingering new car smell. I also seemed to get better mileage with the "new" engine, but this may have been due to my driving a bit slower while I was on vacation. And yes, the roof rails came off as soon as I got it home and stayed in the rear well for the duration.

My only complaints are mainly visual: the visors STILL don't slide back to block the sun (C'MON!), and the day-nite mirror - relievingly, a manual one - picks up way too much headliner reflection when in nite mode, however adjusted to avoid it. I liked having all the cruise controls on the paddle, instead of the main switch next to the fog light switch, and I didn't notice it interfering with me knee at all. But, I still would like some more leg room in the driver's seat. Even with the power seat set as far back and as high as possible, it was still a bit of a chore to get in and out, and a tad tight once in. (I'm 6'.) Subaru needs to know that many of us never fill up our back seats, and it should design the front ones to travel back further, secure in the knowledge that it won't be a co-conspirator to cramping anyone's style back there!

Happy New Year to All!

ateixeira · December 2007

Lucky duck! I can't believe it.

Any how, let's hope the 09 addresses some of your issues. The wheelbase is longer and in photos it looks like not all of it went to the back seat. We shall see...

p0926 · January 2008

But, I still would like some more leg room in the driver's seat.

Really? I'm almost positive the Forester already has class leading front leg room (I'm 6'2 and fit comfortably). And by increasing travel of the front seats, that reduces the listed rear seat leg room.

-Frank

ateixeira · January 2008

Yep, this was as of April 05, but you get the general idea:

Front Rear Vehicle
43.6 33.7 Forester
41.4 30.6 Grand Vitara (now that's tight)
42.3 32.6 RAV4 (also very tight)
40.2 35.8 X3 (less total combined legroom)
41.6 36.3 Escape/Tribute (just 0.6" more comibined)
41.3 39.4 CR-V (best back seat, cramped front)
41.0 39.1 Element
41.6 36.8 Santa Fe
42.1 37.2 Tucson/Sportage (beats Santa Fe!)
40.8 37.2 Liberty (cramped front)
41.8 36.8 Freelander
42.3 35.5 Outlander
41.2 36.8 Vue

The Forester does position the seat farther down vs. most, so you sit arms out, legs in front of you. Some others put you up high, almost like sitting on a bar stool, so those require less leg room front to back.

dirtbag · January 2008

It's apparent some people have longer legs in relation to their overall height. I'm 6.0" and don't even keep the driver seat all the way back. Others my height have a problem.

ateixeira · January 2008

Same here, I'm 6' tall but my legs are not that long.

When I slid my '98 all the way back I could barely depress the clutch pedal all the way. I usually positioned the seat and inch or so forward from the rear-most position.

tifighter · January 2008

Thanks for posting these figures, Juice. Very interesting numbers. My friend has a 06 CRV, and I am always impressed with how much room there is in the backseat. I believe the rear seat on the current RAV4 slides back and forward, so I bet it is comparable.

I am 6'3" and find the Forester front seat is too far back if I adjust it all the way back. I have a 33" inseam, so not the longest legs in the world, though. I hate the rear seat leg room though...pure torture :sick:

xwesx · January 2008

Much of it has to do with how people like their seat positioned when they drive. I position my seat much the way mishaa recommends in his "how to position your seat" tutorial on carspace. Ironically, every time I take a car to a service place, somebody half my size brings the car around for me and when I get in I would have otherwise sworn a giant must have serviced it!

My dad is the same way. He is 3" shorter than me and when I get in his vehicles I have to wonder how he reaches the pedals....

As for rear seat room, though, I find (having ridden most of my childhood years in the back seats of coupes) that leg room in the back is hampered much faster by front seatbacks being leaned back than the entire seat assembly being moved rearward.

p0926 · January 2008

leg room in the back is hampered much faster by front seatbacks being leaned back than the entire seat assembly being moved rearward

That's true. It doesn't matter how much room there is in the footwell if your knees are jammed into the seatback :sick:

-Frank

jdcarp · January 2008

I'm interested in hearing your experience with how the AWD system works with the current Forester manual trans. When starting out on a slippery uphill slope - do the front or rear wheels spin first? How about hitting a slick uphill spot at highway speeds? Just wondering how this is going to feel. As I understand the literature - there's a 50-50 split of power F/R at all times - not sure how this works. Also, on the 2.5x, manual, you don't get the limited slip rear dif. Wondering if that might be a problem when 4wd is needed? Anyone have insight?

paisan · January 2008

You probably won't feel anything. Slippage will be minimal, especially if you upshift to 2nd gear. In 1st you can spin all 4 I bet.

-mike

mxo11 · January 2008

Hi all,

We are thinking about buying a 2.5 X Forester (say, as opposed to a CR-V, for example), but the lack of ESC has made us wonder... How critical is the lack of ESC in the Forester, honestly?

Thanks for all your input!

Manuel

rsholland · January 2008

ESC will be standard on the all-new '09 Forester, which should go on sale in March. It's a much better car than the current one. I would wait for it.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4097

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3963

Bob

paisan · January 2008

The ESC is nice, however it is helping the CRV to compensate for having only a reactive AWD system. The Forester has power going to all the wheels all the time, so you are less likely to skid in the first place, this reduces the need of a stability system. The Forester w/stability control would be even better.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

paisan · January 2008

ESC will be standard on the all-new '09 Forester, which should go on sale in March. It's a much better car than the current one. I would wait for it.

I would definitely concur with that, if you aren't getting an oustanding deal on the 08, wait for the 09.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

dirtbag · January 2008

Considering that no cars had ESC before a few years ago, my opinion is that it's relatively unimportant. Of course there's that one in 10,000 chance that it might help keep you on the road, but I think it's just a marketing gimmick. I'm sure others would disagree.

paisan · January 2008

I take it power brakes and disc brakes are also a marketing gimmick too.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

p0926 · January 2008

I take it power brakes and disc brakes are also a marketing gimmick too.

Hmm let's see... you get the advantage of power brakes and disc brakes every time you apply the brake pedal whereas you may never encounter a driving situation that engages the ESC. Not exactly comparing apples to apples are we? :P

A much better comparison would be to anti-lock brakes. Both ESC & ABS "may" enhance driver control in an emergency handling situation.

Speaking of ABS, I've seriously considered yanking the fuse on my Forester. I've yet to encounter a situation where ABS has helped and have had several instances where the ABS itself almost caused me to rear end someone. Specifically, when applying the brakes while going over very rough pavement or rumble strips. The momentary lost of traction triggers the ABS and the result is a far longer than normal stopping distance. Personally, I prefer the old fashion method of pumping the brakes manually if the situation dictates

-Frank

paisan · January 2008

I guess we'll agree to disagree on the ABS and ECS. As a racecar driver, I'll take ABS and ECS over a non-equipped car any day of the week.

As for your rough pavement issue, it's likely the tires and/or shocks causing that, the tires were a fairly well known issue on the wrxs with ABS causing a similar issue over rough surfaces. I had the same problem on my Armada and Trooper as well. As soon as I ditched the stock tires, the ABS issue stopped.

The thing about ECS and ABS is that it allows you to turn and brake at the same time without sliding straight forward. I make sure to test it out anytime I'm on snow or ice to see if it really works and it does.

-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

dirtbag · January 2008

I certainly didn't mean to say I don't think ESC works. It does work, and if it makes you feel better when you buy a car, go for it. My opinion is that since it's only useful on very rare occasions, I'm not going to avoid buying a car just because the car doesn't have it. I haven't encountered an emergency situation while driving for 30 years, where ESC would have helped me. (It might happen next week, now that I've said that.) Perhaps ESC saves a few lives and some property damage each year. That is a good thing.

I believe ABS is far more useful. There's no doubt in my mind that if used properly it prevents loss of control and allows faster stopping, on snow and ice. But as p0926 says, ABS can actually be a problem in some situations.

gocerygetten · January 2008

Has anyone else experienced poor sevice on their forester???? Mine cant fix a simple rear wiper motor squeek , a window squeek , or a steering wheel squeek. Maybe these cars are built to squeek. Its been in 4 times and not one fixed. These cars are not as great as people say . Been in the shop more times this year than when I owned my 2005 Escape and 2002 VW Jetta combined. Im going back to a Ford after the warranty expires and enjoy some piece and quite.

kurtamaxxxguy · January 2008

Edmunds First Look was very positive on the '09 Forester, save for the continued use of the old 4-speed auto trans.

Article highlight; When Edmunds asked Subaru why anyone would buy an Outback given how much better the Forester is, the Subaru folks rolled their eyes in response.

johnv · January 2008

Here is the article:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=124405

(They say 2008 but mean 2009, although it seems pretty silly that a car designed in 07, released in 08, and replaced in 09 ... is an 09.)

Subaru Forester

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles