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Subaru Forester

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    growler5growler5 Member Posts: 67
    "3. Lack of stability control. "

    Does the Forester really need stability control, or is this a perceived shortcoming only because other manufacturers offer it on vehicles that could really benefit from it ?

    Re: the lack of interior lighting. Connecting the above-mirror lights with the ceiling light would be a good start, nor should it be costly to do. (The ceiling light is positioned quite far back because of the moon roof.)
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    bayview6bayview6 Member Posts: 141
    <<Why would the 07 drop to 20/25? It's 23/28 now. >>

    juice, the USA EPA is going to change the way it estimates mpg. 2006 and before it used a dynometer to estmate real-world conditions. (LOL!!) For example, its highway speed was 40 mph, etc. In 2007 vehicles the EPA is going to do the the unthinkable and acutally drive the cars on real roads in real weather. Talk about extreme!. Anyway, I have a new 2006 forester automatic and I get about 19 City and 25 Highway. Maybe if they drove real conservatively they could move it up but it will depend on what their testing procedures are.

    Pete
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Does the Forester really need stability control, or is this a perceived shortcoming only because other manufacturers offer it on vehicles that could really benefit from it ?

    I think stability control falls into the same category as airbags. Airbags were originally designed to protect people who weren't wearing a seatbelt and were of questionable benefit for someone who was properly belted in. Of course today's airbags (especially the side impact ones) truly do offer added protection.

    If you're driving safely, there's a good chance you'll never need stability control (especially with a relatively low center-of-gravity vehicle like the Forester) and it may even interfere with some "spirited" driving maneuvers. However like airbags, I see stability control eventually becoming pretty much standard and as they refine it, maybe its benefits will become more appreciated (just like the airbag).

    -Frank
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    grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Interesting question. The RACV, the local equivalent of the AAA is pressing for compulsory fitment of Stability Control for all vehicles sold in Australia.

    http://racv.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F05CB02B04EDD33ECA257100007E0- 87D

    Victoria, my home state has been a world leader in many safety innovations including the first place to legislate for seat belts, first for .05% Blood Alcohol Limit and a raft of other measures. This has had a combined impact of reducing annual road deaths from 1034 in the early 1970's to about 350 per annum today, whilst the state's population has doubled.

    The current estimate is that fitment of stability control reduces single vehicle accidents by about 40%, equivalent to 50 saved lives per year in Victoria. The problem is that like all safety improvements, there is a financial impact. Initially, it is significant but it progressively works its way down to lesser models as costs reduce. When I purchased my latest car, a Safety Pack, incorporating, Stability Control, Traction Control, Brake Assist, Side and Curtain Airbags and Electronic diff locking added about 6% to the cost of the vehicle.

    My car is a tool of trade so I consider any safety improvement as a worthwhile investment. I know that I will have an accident about once every five years and have, so far, been lucky enough to get off without major injury. I'd prefer to keep it that way.

    However you may consider it differently. You have to ask yourself a simple question - Do you like living with all your limbs and body parts intact? Whilst improvements in safety features cannot guarantee your survival, they will dramatically reduce the incidence of death and minimise the risk of injury.

    You pays your money and you takes your chances...

    Cheers

    Graham
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    brian35brian35 Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone tried disabling AWD to get better gas milage?

    You are supposed to do this if you are driving on a spare but I'm not sure what the long-term consequences would be of keeping it disabled would be. I'm thinking that I could probably do without AWD during the summer.
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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Has anyone tried disabling AWD to get better gas milage?

    You are supposed to do this if you are driving on a spare...

    You are?
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    slazengerslazenger Member Posts: 99
    You will probably see no noticable improvement in gas milage and don't be surprised if your tranny blows up ;)
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Easy solution - go buy a FWD only vehicle. The Subie with an AT in FWD mode is only meant to be temporary - like when you use it for a spare tire.

    FWIW, AWD isn't only meant for snow. AWD can help in rain as well.

    I question why you got an AWD vehicle in the first place really, if all you want to do is disable it...

    -Brian
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    lamediaman12lamediaman12 Member Posts: 3
    I bought a new 06, Subaru Forester and as you might have guessed it they still do not have an option for an IPOD or MP3 player. However, I brought my other car in 2 weeks ago to have a new radio installed. I spoke to the store manager about my issue with my Subaru and he indicated that they have a way of modifying the existing radio with an auxiliary input that does not use the FM modulation or the CD player. He did indicate that they were the only company around that does this, boy I felt like I hit the lotto. With confidence the next week I had them do this process. Let me tell you, not only does it sound great but they also set me up with a holster that charges and connects right to the radio. This process also works with any MP3 player and or satellite radios with no engine noise or interference. You can also ship them your radio to have the modification completed.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let me guess - they plug in where the antennae usually does, and then and antennae plugs in to an adaptor?

    Legacy owners have done that.

    Be happy that Subaru uses a pretty standard double-DIN sized dash opening for the current Forester. You can replace the heat unit with pretty much anything out there, including units that have NAV, MP3, aux input, the works.

    -juice
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    jpfkkjpfkk Member Posts: 43
    lamediaman (I assume it is "LA Media Man"?),

    Very interesting. Thank you for the insight. Can you please send me the name of the store? Or is that forbidden in this forum? Seems like a good solution.

    But let's also not let the nit wit management team at Subaru off the hook (sorry, I am so frustrated by Subaru right now...). If Subaru wants to move up market (which has been discussed a great deal in this terrific forum) they need to understand that BMW, Land Rover, don't ask their customers to fish for their own work arounds. They manage the little things right from the start at the dealer.

    Just a thought...
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    dirtbagdirtbag Member Posts: 57
    I too am frustrated the Forester doesn't have aux-in for an iPod and made it very clear to the sales manager at one of the dealers I was shopping. (The CD player won't play MP3/AAC/WMA discs either.) I bought an '06 Forester anyway since I think it is the best value small SUV, and I plan to replace the audio head unit very soon. I read a rumor somewhere (can't remember where) that '07s will have aux-in, about three years too late.
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    jef64jef64 Member Posts: 3
    In my case, the dealer found that a composite threaded bolt that sends information to the speedometer, cruise, etc harness was stripped. Dealer claims never seen this before. No additional info from Subaru of America. Had to drop tranny to replace. Dealer claims that with only 3500 miles on car; this would not be a prob. So far so good.....have 7000 miles on car now. Tranny seems ok.
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    jef64jef64 Member Posts: 3
    See notes per 3/23/06.....
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    kumarikumari Member Posts: 72
    Hi all,

    I've also posted this on the other Forester board, but want everyone to see it, so I'm posting here as well. Just picked up the '06 Forester XT and this morning was the first time I saw the car in bright daylight - distressed to find no tinting whatsoever on any of the windows. Most SUV's come with the rear windows tinted as standard and I assumed that's how this one would come. Dealership wants $300 to tint windows - is this a good price? Anyone else do this? How did it turn out and what did it cost?

    Also, appears like sunroof is letting in moisture as there were damp spots along one side of the inside cover this morning, just from morning dew - no rain. Is this normal?

    Thanks, Samantha

    P.S. LOVE the car, expecially the turbo!
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    If it's actually damp on the sliding inside cover, that should not be happening.

    As for the tinting, haven't had mine done yet but will probably do so before the hot summer weather hits the south.

    Doug
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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    The windows are tinted 15% from the factory. I'm sure there are studios out your way who specialize in tinting and the dealer is probably taking it to one of them and marking up the price for their trouble.

    Damp spots on the inside cover? The sliding cover inside the car? Get it back to the dealer and have them fix it.
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    mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    Shop around you should be able to get it done for aroubd $175.00 look for a shop near the dealer or call around. The dealer is making a mark up...

    Good Luck... Matt
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    fly5fly5 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Forester XS with A/T, does anyone use snow chains on their Forester?
    If so, what brand and type do you use.
    I was stuck in the blizzard here in Nebraska last week. I was out in the country on a gravel road about 15 miles outside the city limits. The tires on the right side would spin with the tran. in gear while both left side tires would NOT move at all.

    I have brand new (< 1000 miles) Goodyear triple treds on the front and Geolanders with 20,000 on the rear.

    I was very dissapointed as I'm sure my old Loyale with 4wheel drive would have gone right through the snow drift that stranded me.

    Lesson learned, AWD is not the same as 4wheel drive.
    Also, I left my hazard lights on and couldn't get back to the car for about 40 hours, battery was deader 'n doornail.

    It was snowing about an inch an hour at the time, after some hitch hiking (2 rides) I was close enough to town for a taxi to come pick me up.

    I will never go out in the winter again in this car with out chains and a tow rope!!

    The manual says its OK to put chains on the front axle. Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Joe
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I would refer to your owner's manual as to whether chains are recommended. Off hand, I don't know if they are.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru does not recommend them, but the low-profile Z-chains are the only ones that'll fit.

    People in CA report that even climbing up to Tahoe, that Subarus are waved right by, even without chains.

    -juice
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    bayview6bayview6 Member Posts: 141
    fly5, sounds to me like the root of your problem is that you didn't have posi-traction on your Forester. Some of them have it, and some of them don't. If you had had posi-traction probably you would have been ok. I got 2006 Forester premium with posi-traction and ComforTreads all around. As long as the snow is not over 8" I should be alright.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I thought the XS came standard with a limited slip rear diffy? In fact the scenario you describe (both wheels on one side without traction) is one of the main benefits of having a limited slip rear diffy because it should have transferred some power to the left rear wheel.

    Prior to venturing out into a blizzard on rural gravel roads in any vehicle it would be prudent to have: chains, tow rope, old piece of carpet for traction, cell phone, food & water, first aide kit, and blankets.

    You didn't seriously expect your battery to last 40 hours with the emergency flashers on?

    -Frank
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    bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    "Prior to venturing out into a blizzard on rural gravel roads in any vehicle it would be prudent to have: chains, tow rope, old piece of carpet for traction, cell phone, food & water, first aide kit, and blankets."

    I know this may sound like a push for Subaru gear, but their Severe Winter Kit includes several of those items listed above, plus a folding shovel. It's compact so it fits in the back with no problem. I do admit I received mine for free a couple of years ago for test driving the (then) newly redesigned Forester.

    Mark
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If I built a winter kit it would include an extra coat and a bottle of whiskey. LOL

    -juice
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    bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    When we do the 48hrs run, Paisan tells us to bring along sleeping bags, water, shovel, etc.

    Extra cautious I guess.

    Mark
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    huey3huey3 Member Posts: 3
    Sometimes the limited slip needs a little resistance to work. If you are on really a very slick surface there might not enough friction. If you gently apply a little brake while gently giving it a little gas it might help.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For Subaru's differentials they actually will. Viscous fluid is used and whenever the two sides spin at different speeds the fluid thickens and temporarily binds the two sides together.

    Your post applies to Torsen differentials, like Audi's. Torsen stands for Torque Sensing. They have what's called a bias ratio, for instance on Audi it is 2 to 1. That means the differential is capable of sending twice as much power to the side with resistance (grip). Usually that means 67% in one direction, 33% in the other.

    However, the bias ratio means one side can get 2 times the traction as compared to the other. But if one side has zero traction, 2 times 0 is 0. So all the power will leak out that one side, the path of least resistance.

    The advantage of the Torsen is that under track conditions, it can send more power to the side with more traction. But on ice, they're basically useless. This is why Audi uses traction control.

    Subies rule in the snow, their differentials actually do work on ice. They don't act as quickly as a Torsen on a dry track, however, so it's more for safety in the snow than it is for track day.

    -juice
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    prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    1. Is there much wind noise in the 2006 Forester at highway speeds, viz. 70-80 mph?

    2. Is the acceleraton from 0-60 mph for the XT with automatic transmission much slower than that for the XT with manual?

    Thanks.
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,606
    Anyone cross shop the Legacy vs. the Forester when they were in the market? I have found a used 05 Legacy 5 speed wagon with 20k miles that drove nicely. A little cheaper than a new Forester, a rare manual wagon and a good looking car. I will test drive a new 06 Forester X this weekend too, but wonder if anyone else made the comparison? What did you like about one over the other? Do any of you Forester owners wish you bought the Legacy instead? I like the size of the Forester but the Legacy was a nicer car than I was expecting. I wish I could afford a FXT, but hey, you have to draw the line somewhere!

    Thanks!

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    The Forester has better ground clearance and better safety ratings....the Legacy has a better ride.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do any of you Forester owners wish you bought the Legacy instead?

    No, actually, we have one of each and prefer the Forester. It's just more fun. I would not trade with my wife's Legacy even though hers is 4 years newer.

    priggly: you should drive both. I think the auto is very fast, but the manual is get-you-in-trouble-with-the-law-blazingly-fast. I drove a new auto with a tranny that had not yet adapted to my driving, so I may have felt a bigger difference.

    -juice
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    poodog13poodog13 Member Posts: 320
    A fair amount of wind noise is generated by the roof rack at highway speeds, and in some cases can turn into a soft whistle depending on speed and crosswinds. I would not describe the remainder of the wind noise as loud but would neither characterize the car as particuarly quiet (at least from wind, the engine is actually very quiet in my opinion).
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    1. Wind noise at highway speeds is noticeable, but drastically less if you remove the cross bars when you're not using them. I'd had mine off for a while, and recently put them back on, making sure they were facing the proper direction, and noticed the high pitched whine/whistle noise. It got on my nerves so much that I took them off the next day.

    2. My XT auto has never been timed 0-60 but yes, the automatic is definitely a blink or two slower than the manual. You'll never get the 5.3 C&D figure in the auto; in fact I've seen estimates that the stock auto falls somewhere in the 6.5-7.0 second range. If you're willing to mod the auto enough (and jeopordize your warranty), you may be able to achieve sub six second speeds.

    Doug
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    prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    Do any of you Forester owners wish you bought the Legacy instead?

    I test drove both a Forester and an Outback last October before finally deciding on the Forester. I liked the feel of the Outback a little more, but not enough to justify the ~$2K price premium over the Forester.
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    prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Wind noise at highway speeds is noticeable, but drastically less if you remove the cross bars when you're not using them.

    Thanks for your comments dstew1. I realize the cross bars are a prominent source of noise but assuming they are removed is there then any remaining noticeable wind noise coming through the doors/window seals at highway speeds?

    Thanks for the additional clarification.
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    gordrgordr Member Posts: 3
    I do lots of local trips into trail heads for hiking, mountaineering etc, some of which have some tough parts to the road (rock, water bars etc).

    Currently own a 2002 Nissan Xterra, so never many problems. Seriously considering a 2006 Forester, but some concerns about off road ability. I'm rarely if ever in anything to hard core, but would like to hear some examples of how good the Forester works. Note, was also considering a new RAV4, but have always wanted a Subie.
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    Wind noise in the Forester greatly depends on what you're accustomed to. Personally, coming from a Corolla for several years, it's a definite improvement. If you're coming from a heavier and/or more aerodynamic vehicle, that may not be the case.

    It's relatively light weight and boxy shape are going to lend it to a modest amount of wind noise, but it's not off-putting. I'm usually more aware of the road noise coming from the stock Geolander tires.

    Doug
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,606
    We have a winner; I ended up with the Forester. Got what I felt to be a great deal (well below invoice before rebate) for a X 5MT in steel grey. The new-style Legacy is great, but a) it's really big and b) I didn't like the dealer.

    Just need the perfect ipod aftermarket stereo and a roof box... ;)

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    If you go with a Forester you're better off with the X-Premium for the locking rear differential. Forget the RAV, in my experience this is a front-drive car that pays lip service to AWD.
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    The rear diff in the X Premium (and FXT) is limited slip, not locking, correct?

    Also, to gordr, there is another message board devoted to Subaru off-roading enthusiasts. While I don't think I can post a link, if you google "offroadsubarus" (all one word), you're sure to find it. ;)

    There you'll find plenty of info (and photos) regarding the offroad capabilities (and limits) of the Forester.

    Doug
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    andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    Anyone think they will keep the rebate alive for April? Anyone know of plans for a replacement Forester X anytime soon....I don't mean a new nose and tail but a new bigger F.
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    jcabejcabe Member Posts: 3
    Hello
    I made the comparison last week between a Legacy SE wagon and a Forester X. Both with a 5 speed. I was interested in a Forester Premium but between the package cost and the $1000 less rebate vs the base, it made much less sense. Besides, all I really wanted was the sunroof and the 4whl disks. The Legacy SE seemed a logical alternative.
    The Legacy is a beautiful car. Much more refined. It's quiet and smooth but also not as much fun to drive. The Forester seemed more willing with quicker turning and acceleration. I do tend to head to the mountains and navigate miles of dirt roads and trails. No it's not the Rubicon. No rock climbing or super steep grades but for what I do the Forester is much more up to the task.
    The cargo space was another issue. While both cars have roughly the same area with seats up or down. The Forester has a more square compartment vs the Legacy's lower roofline. For my hauling situations it made more sense. I'm a part time musician and need to haul big amps, and pa speakers. I just picked up a new dishwasher last week in my old Forester that I am sure would not have fit in the Legacy.
    With the deal I had there was a $2500 difference between the Legacy and the base Forester. The Forester Premium was $3500 more than the base.
    Either car is a good choice. My ultimate research goal was most for the money and the Forester won. Check the resale values. The Forester retains it's value better than the Legacy. So a year or two from now a new Forester may have been the better choice than a used Legacy.
    Hope this helps and good luck in your purchase.
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    jcabejcabe Member Posts: 3
    Hello
    I just picked up my 06 Forester X and am unhappy to find that I have a temporary spare. I traded my 98 in with a brand new rim and Geolander WL.
    If you go on the Subaru website under model comparisons it states the Forester X non Premium comes with a full size.
    It may be trivial but I did base a fair amount of my purchase on this. I do a lot of dirt road/trail riding. The idea of being 20 miles away from pavement on a doughnut scares the crap out of me.
    Any 06 owners out there share my opinion?
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,606
    Start reading this forum from around page 2; there seem to be quite a few that are unhappy about it. I don't think you are alone.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Right on! I think it was a DUMB move on Subaru's part to replace the full-size spare on the Forester. This is a hot-button issue with me&#151;and you aren't alone in this feeling!

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's fine for light/medium duty, but you mention rocks so you may want to consider adding skid plates. Let us know if you get one and we'll help find a few sources for those.

    RAV4 sort of choked on this off-road test:

    http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=11038&vf=1

    Probably because it's FWD-based and the traction control ended up fighting the AWD, and the AWD lost.

    You might want to consider the LL Bean model, which has the limited-slip rear diff and self-leveling shocks. So you have 8.1" of clearance even with weight in the back. The RAV4 has 7.1-7.5" I believe.

    -juice
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    Some other (swiped) images of Foresters getting all wet and dirty over some pretty wild terrain (pictures are worth countless hours of reading through message boards trying to get an answer to your exact question). This should give you a pretty good idea as to the capabilities - and limits - of the Forester (it's safe to assume the Forries in these photos are nearing/reaching their limits):

    image

    image
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pics in the Pine Barrens. The green one is mine (9 years old and 83k miles and still going strong) and the black one was Ed's before he traded up to an XT model.

    -juice
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I agree that having a full-size spare is nice but no doubt Subaru sampled their customers and the majority of them found the additional storage space more desirable than having a full-size spare.

    The good news is that you can still fit a full-size tire under the floor if you remove the foam blocks. Or... for those times when you're off-roading, you can take along a full-size spare.

    There's a lesson to be learned from this though... if you're basing "a fair amount" of your purchase decision on the vehicle having a full-size spare, it would behoove you to verify that the vehicle in question actually has one ;)

    -Frank
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