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Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

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Comments

  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    The first review they gave they listed the Aura 31st. I saw it with my own 2 eyes.
    The Aura is in no way 10th out of 20. CR doesnt have a clue.
    As for the Aura reviews they have been overwhelmingly positive. The COTY Award at the Auto show was decided by Automotive Journalists and the Aura came in Number 1, finishing ahead of the Camry.
    You don't see bias in CR? Thats OK, go by their recommendations. Personally I trust folks who actually know what they are doing. But even then I would never buy anything simply because it is recommended, I would always drive it to see if it felt comfortable to me. Sadly though, many people are lemmings and will not even shop around. Thats an ingredient for Toyota and Honda dealers getting arrogant. And consumers getting ripped off.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Thats fine but your experience is based on a few dealers and Avi is basing his statement on the real world survey results from tens of thousands of consumers. You can look up the same results and they can be backed up

    I could claim that all mazda dealers suck, but i didn't and they don't.

    Well based on the same survey results mazda dealers arent so great either....so whats your point?
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Sadly though, many people are lemmings and will not even shop around. Thats an ingredient for Toyota and Honda dealers getting arrogant.

    Two points:

    1) Most people are creatures of habit. If they buy a vehicle and the vehicle does a good job for them, they go back and buy another. (Personally, I would have been happy to buy another Olds ... but GM doesn't make them anymore.)

    2) Many people DO shop around. And they are NOT choosing domestic brands as often as they used to. I have driven every compact car in the US market (as well as several in the Mexican market) and the imports win hands down in that class. Why? Probably because it has been THEIR priority over the years. The domestics have conceded that market in favor of the suburban assault vehicles

    Personally, I use Phil Edmondston's Lemon Aid Guides link title and some of the Canadian publications as tehy tend to be far more objective than CR.
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    The Focus is built on a Mazda platform and is a far better car than the Corolla. The Cobalt is based on a European platform and is also a far better car than the Corolla.
    I'm talking drivability. Reliability the Corolla gets the nod, although they are probably not as far apart as you think. Mileage also the Corolla has the edge. Personally I prefer the power in the Cobalt vs the mileage in the Corolla but thats a personal preference.
    The past is past, when do domestics get a shot again?
    When the first datsuns and toyotas came over they were tin cans. People gave them another shot. Perhaps its time to give domestics a shot also?
    But to bolster your argument I will agree that Ford and GM have not put their best foot forward in the small car segment. The European Focus is far better than the domestic Focus and probably one of the best small cars in the world-so why does America get a second best platform?
    As for GM I expect good things from the next Cobalt since the current one is pretty good, and the Saturn Astra is coming over from Europe this year.
    But they have to keep constantly improving their small cars (and all their other cars too) in order to compete and win back market share.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The car even won COTY from the Automotive Press (over all including the Camry.) CR rated the Aura 31st! Thats right, not second, tenth, twentyeth, thirty first!

    Yet, Motor Trend named the Camry Car of the Year. LOL

    May I ask how you decide one magazine is better than others at reviewing? Hundreds of thousands of subscribers disagree with what you said, and suddenly their cursed by ya? :confuse: Just because a vehicle doesn't get glowing reliability ratings doesn't mean EVERY vehicle will have a problem, just that a higher number of those sampled reported problems. You may drive a car rated lowest in reliability and never lay out a dime after 100k miles on repairs.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The past is past, when do domestics get a shot again?

    When they make good vehicles. Look at the Ford Fusion. Look at the Chevrolet Impala. These cars are doing well! The Fusion is quite competitive. The Impala has a quality feel not seen in GM products in a looooong time. The Cobalt hasn't benefitted from the Impala's upgrades yet, IMO. Just a little too cheap feeling inside.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    C'mon folks, we're supposed to be comparing the three subject vehicles here. We're wandering aroung too much and for too long.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Perhaps you should create a discussion comparing the Cobalt? Or visit the economy sedans $16k-20k board so we won't get this particular discussion off track. I'll join ya there, it is a good place to discuss MANY brands of vehicles.
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    OK, see ya there
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Nissan vehicles are less reliable than GM.

    I respectively disagree, and I will leave it at that.

    Many people buy a Toyota based on what they read in CR, which is a biased rag. But I digress............

    CR bases their reliability ratings on subscriber reviews. Many who subscribe to CR, live and die by their ratings. Most of their subscribers only buy the highest rated cars. That to me means it is a bit flawed. Many are not getting the complete spectrum of all reliable vehicles, I believe many are left out that should not be, perhaps. However, their recommended vehicles do deserve to be recommended.

    In my opinion, Toyota's are over rated. They will run forever, but offer some of the worst driving dynamics. But, I am young. Toyota's average buyer is 51-55 (many are well over 60). Many, not all, in that age group do not car about performance or handling. Also, with that age group, many do not push their vehicle either, making it more reliable. Younger people tend to drive cars harder, making them more suseptable to problems. Look at Buick. They are recommended by CR, but every mechanically identical GM product is not. Buick drivers are much older and barley drive the car to begin with.

    Personally, I believe GM products are getting better. I am not at the point where I would buy one, though. I have owned a Toyota, Mitsubishi, Honda, and Mazda. All have been great, with over 100,000 miles on all, except the Mazda (current vehicle with 30,000)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    And I have had 30+ Taurus without a blown transmission. That is almost a record.

    My family has owned 4 Taurus, among many other Fords, all with well over 100,000 miles, and virtually no problems. No tranny repairs or engine repairs on any of them. She still has the '97 Taurus with 148K and only repair has been the park gear cable ($75 part) other then normal maintence. Current vehicle is a '04 Mustang V6 Conv. with 45K, problem free.

    I do not think Fords are all that bad. Some are pretty good. Look at the rating on the Fusion, they are great.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    Well based on the same survey results mazda dealers arent so great either....so whats your point?

    simply that i won't base my opinions on a dealer based on one experience or ratings i have not read. (and don't feel like i should have to, since my dealings with buying cars and my comments on dealership experience have never been of a 'all [insert car make] dealers suck' sort of nature.)

    fair enough?
  • jasmine5jasmine5 Member Posts: 9
    Hey Grad - Doesn't Ford own Mazda?
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Toyota's average buyer is 51-55
    What source did you use to get that information?

    Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Hey Grad - Doesn't Ford own Mazda?"

    Ford own's a 'controlling interest' in Mazda. They actually OWN 33.4% of the company. This is different from Jaquar/Aston Martin and Volvo where these companies ARE 100% owned by Ford.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    What source did you use to get that information?

    Internal Mazda resources. Just "google" it, and there are numerous automotive websites that state it.

    Do you know what is the average age of the Honda buyer and of the Mazda buyer?

    Mazda claims to have the youngest buyer, overall. I am not sure about Honda. My guess is it's somewhere in between.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Ford own's a controlling interest' in Mazda.

    Keyword "interest". Does not mean "own". This is a common misconception in the automotive industry when the two companies are talked about.
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    True, but Ford runs the brand basically.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Mazda claims to have the youngest buyer, overall. I am not sure about Honda. My guess is it's somewhere in between.
    This profiling of car brands seems like a marketing mash-up. What's interesting is when one sees obvious misalignments of the marketing spiel and the buying reality as in the case of the Honda Element (which was targetting a youthful audience and got snapped up by a more senior group). Also, I wonder if the buyer's profile is more likely related to the "image" of the vehicle rather than the manufacturer. For example, would a younger buyer prefer a Toyota Yaris hatchback or a Mazda Tribute?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I'm not quite sure I follow. The Yaris is not targeted twards the same group the the Tribute is.

    My statement was directed twards the respective companies as a whole. Mazda has they youngest average buyer.

    A closer analogy would be the buyer of a Mazda6 vs Toyota Camry. The Mazda6 has a buyer is in their mid to late 30's, where the Camry has buyers that average early to mid 50's.

    The Mazda3 (early 20's to early 30's)and Toyota Corolla buyer will be closer in age then the Camry and Mazda6 buyer.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The Yaris is not targeted twards the same group the the Tribute is.
    That's my point. It's not the manufacturer but the vehicle that is used for targetting an audience. In other words, Mazdas are both older and younger than Toyotas. A Mazda Tribute is for an older crowd than a Toyota Yaris. Mazdas are not all young and Toyotas are not all old.

    I prefer the styling of a Mazda3 over the Corolla or Civic but what does that mean? The true test is does the overall sum of the car beat out the competition? Reliability and pricing are the criteria most often cited for vehicle choice.

    p.s. It used to be that a Mazda6 could be targetted to a younger audience than a Toyota Camry but these days I'm not sure. Personally, I find the latest Camry a real head turner and more interesting because it offers a hybrid version. Do hybrids appeal to an older or younger crowd?
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    The Camry turns my head too, in the other direction. :P
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    If you see as many new camrys on the roads as I do your head must be spinning.
  • ezpilzeezpilze Member Posts: 29
    The way I see it, cars that target the younger crowd tend to be economic, look funny, and give you more for your money. So cars like the tC, element, and yaris target the younger crowd, however that is to say that these traits do not appeal to the older crowd. Infact, some of these "younger cars" probably appeal to older ppl more so than they do younger to younger ppl.

    Think about it, you're already older, and more mature (hopefully) so you're probably going to go for something cheap and practical, where as a younger buyer would only buy a cheaper if their pockets are not deep, or if they have funny taste in cars (my opinion).
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Mazdas are not all young and Toyotas are not all old.

    True, but Toyota has a much higher aged average buyer, and Mazda has the youngest age average buyer.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    I have attended a couple of the Mazda "Zoom-Zoom" events in Chicago in the last few years. Let's be blunt. Mazda is gearing all of their marketing to the 16-30 yo male demographic. Sit and watch the crowd at these eventys. The guys of that age are "ooing and awwing" and their parents are pretty much yawning.

    OTOH, Toyota makes a pretty utilitarian vehicle with clean designs and without all "stylistic" curves. I see a lot of older people (meaning 40 and up) moving to Toyotas, especially people who traditionally buy Ford and Chevys and are tired of some of the quality concerns.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The average age buyer of a Mazda is 30-45. Non of their vehicles have a demographic, or psycographic of anyone under 20.

    Mazda is gearing all of their marketing to the 16-30 yo male demographic

    Very untrue. The CX-7 is late 20's to early 40's. CX-9 30's to 50. MX-5 45-50. RX-8 early 30's. Mazda5 30's to 40.

    Toyota goes after the people that want a car that is going to last with utility. Mazda goes after the people that want a car that will last, and have fun driving it. Mazda expresses this in their mission statement.

    "All children instinctively know it. A few adults still remember it. One unique car company refuses to outgrow it. In grown-up language, it means the exhilaration and liberation that come from experiencing sheer motion. But as usual, children put it much better. And simply call it Zoom-Zoom.
    We practice it every day. It's why we build the kind of cars we do. Mazda. Always the soul of a sports car."

    see a lot of older people (meaning 40 and up) moving to Toyotas, especially people who traditionally buy Ford and Chevys and are tired of some of the quality concerns.

    Well, many are moving to foreign makes (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan etc.) because of horror stories with domestic brands. Asian brands are just more reliable.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    aviboy, how hard is it to get the pearlescent white mazda 3 five door? I think this is such a cool color (second only to aurora blue) but it seems no dealer ever has them! Any reason?

    When are the 3's getting redesigned? Do they let you guys know anything?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The Crystal White Pearl is a tough color to come by in the Mazda3, whether it be 5-door or sedan. Dealers just do not order them in high volume. I do not know why.

    Personally, I think it is one of the nicest colors.

    When are the 3's getting redesigned? Do they let you guys know anything?

    My guess, and it is just a guess, is the Mazda3 will be redesigned for 2009. They have let us know nothing. We are still waiting to see the redesign for the Mazda6, which is rumored to be for 2008.

    I am going to the NY Auto Show this week, maybe they will have a concept of some sort that will show the possible styling cues of the next Mazda6 or Mazda3, but, I doubt it
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The point that marketing is behind much of the mumbo-jumbo talk could not be better demonstrated than the stated "psycographic" profile of car buyers. The cherry on top is quoting a marketing blurb for sporty cars that refers to children. If this ain't spin, what is?
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    2009 huh? Do you have high hopes for it? It sounds like its going to be hard to out do the current 3, as far as styling goes i still think the 3 hatch is one of the best looking hatches ever, mabye even more so than my rabbit or the gti.

    I wonder if it wont be as welcomed as the outgoing 3...much like the 1996-2000 civic was missed when the 01's came around.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    We do have high hopes for it, however, most of us are more concerned with the upcoming Mazda6, since it is supposed to be right around the corner.

    I think they will keep very similar styling cues, and not change it to much.

    I will agree with you about that statement about the Civic. The 96-00 Civic was extremely popular, and more stylish then anything else in it's day. I thought the redesign really killed the tuner market, and it really looked like a Ford Focus. The 01-05 style was not as popular to tune as the 96-00. The current Civic seems to be much more popular, although I am not a fan of the styling.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Even the youngest cars are bought by old people. Even the Scions average late thirties. The fact is many teens and twenty somethings buy used cars, or their parents buy their cars.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Believe it or not. The ages that I have read about and so far Mazda said that are mostly buying the Mazda's are Between 25-38. the 16-20 year olds, like the Honda civic sport and the Nissan SE-R, especially when the Spec SE-R comes out next month. If Mazda is marketing for the ages 16-30, then why are not buying them as a majority. ;)
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    This is so true. I am seeing many people that are in the their 30-40's buying cars that marketed for people in their 20's and Vice versa. Strange how life is. :surprise:
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Most automobile manufacturer advertising is geared 10 years younger than the actual projected buyers...many people think of themselves as a little younger than they really are and advertisers routine use this tactic.

    The avg age of a new mazda is in the mid 30's....and its the lowest avg of any new car mfg. Remember, the 16-20 yr old crowd has alot of desire but little or no ability to actually buy a new car.
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    You are so right about that. It really doesn't matter about what car and how old you, if you like a car, then you will buy it. I never care about how manufacturer's market their cars. I drive many different types of cars for all targeted age groups. ;)
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    If Mazda is marketing for the ages 16-30, then why are not buying them as a majority.

    When Toyota introduced the Echo as an entry-level car, they marketed it to the young driver. And the average driver was in their mid 40s as many seniors bought the car.

    Many of the Ford and Mazda people that I have met as a fleet manager have stated that they are marketing the vehicle for younger people. However, if you are 75 years old and you have to have a Mazda 3, they will sell you one.

    Marketing does not always translate to sales ...
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Marketing is what it is MARKETING and only that. I know many car companies who spend millions in ad's, but their sales are low. It just depends on what people want. Buying a car is such a personal thing to each person. Marketing will not help a person buy a car. For example, I bought a Mazda M3S GT fully loaded and I didn't see any ad's for this car. I always see ad's like Zoom-Zoom. The ad's didn't affect my purchase at all. Cars are hard to buy because each car, I like different things about them, but not all one car has everything that I want. Why doesn't a car manufacturer make a car exactly how you want it. MADE TO ORDER CONCEPT. LOL. :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    However, if you are 75 years old and you have to have a Mazda 3, they will sell you one.

    I had a 73 yr old man buy a True Red Mazdaspeed3. He had to have it!
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    WOW, awesome for that man. Maybe he will enjoy the car. I hope so. :surprise:
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Herrkaleu,

    Thanks for your write up. I agree with what you have said. I just got off the phone with the dealer service manager and the Mazda 3 has a chain and the first oil change is at 7,500 miles. This is true. The book states this.

    I went with the Mazda because of the safety features and not only that, look at what you get for the price. Heated front seat's for a mid-size class sedan? Who knew? There are many extras also. I also love the larger engine and the 5 speed auto trans with Manual shift. SIMPLY awesome!!! I an real impressed with it. :D

    I test drove many cars, including the Civic, Cobalt, Nissan sentra SE-R, Toyota and VW GTI. I am not impressed with any of those cars. Some were worst than others. The civic truck is a joke. The VW was noisy and felt like it was going to fall apart. The Nissan was pulling to one side when you hit the gas hard. That new transmission the CVT does no justice to the car and makes the drive difficult. It shifts through each gear before the trans kicks in, that what it feels like. The RPM's go to red line before it waits for the trans to catch up to the engine speed. The worst thing that I have ever experienced. :sick:

    I have found that the Mazda was very reliable, great price, great gas mileage, great interior, awesome options, the Bose system is simply breath taking and the moonroof adds a wonderful touch. What impresses me the most is all leather seats, 2.3 DOHC 16-valve I4 engine with VVT, ABS, DSC, SRS system, TCS, 17" rims, telescopic steering wheel, theft system with engine immobilizer, "Triple H" construction (based from the Volvo S40), and the tire pressure monitoring system. Simply awesome!! (I love those two words). ;)

    When you stand in front of the car looking towards the rear, it looks so impressive aero dynamic. It has a sports feel and look about it. Now adays, that is what most people seek or enjoy. I have read that in a car and driver magazine. ;)
    When you first sit in a Mazda 3 M3S GT the sit hugs you, like a sports car.

    I heard that most cars have a timing belt, not chain, unlike the Mazda's. Civic uses a timing belt. They use a stronger steel belt. I only heard this and can not confirm this. :confuse:
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    wow you actually liked the 3 over the gti? Well granted with your prior experience with your golf i don't blame you, but even avi has stated that the gti's interior owns, even over the mazdaspeed 3. I've never heard of one feeling like it was about to fall apart...sounds a litte far fetched, but i know you are biased against vw.

    It has a sports feel and look about it. Now adays, that is what most people seek or enjoy. I have read that in a car and driver magazine.

    this is funny. so if c/d didn't say it, people wouldn't desire it?
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Honestly, I like the 3 over the GTI. However, they were things that I like about the GTI, but I can not support VW after what they did to me.

    Please don't get wrong, let me say, When I said "fall apart", I meant the sound of it that the suspension makes when I drove it. I just am hard pressed about VW because I got a lemon and no one seemed to care about that. The service at the VW was the worst ever!! They lied to me many times and made me pay for a labor charge on a recall. Now that stinks and hurts!!

    No matter what car and driver say's, if you want the car, then you will buy it. I didn't buy the Mazda M3S GT because what c/d said. I bought it for the features, feel, quality and look. Simple as that.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    hey to each his own stal, i think the 3 hatch is awesome too, don't get me wrong.

    By any chance, where did you get your screen name from? Do you listen to the stallionare's?
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    I had this screen name since 1994. Who are stallionare's? I never heard of them. Is that a music group?

    Woman called me back in the day, "stallion man" for a good reason and Re is my last name. Stallionre is what I am. ;)
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    The 3 is the best looking compact car on the market in my opinion. It looks expensive, sleek, and powerful.
    Its even better looking than my white Cobalt Sedan, which I lovingly named 'Honky'.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    ah ok. This is really silly, but i was hooked on the vh1 'i love new york show' and this one contestant named chance was in a rap group called 'the stallionaire's', and everytime someone would piss him off, he said he was going to give it to them 'stallionaire style.'

    I just thought that was hilarious and you kinda remind me of it! ;)
  • stallionrestallionre Member Posts: 205
    Now that is funny. WOW, cool, thanks for sharing. I am not related to him at all.
  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    Did any of you consider moving up in size class before you bought your Mazda 3 or Civic? I am considering these cars and am looking at "loaded" models like the Mazda 3GT 5-door. But It seems that 4 cylinder Accords,Camrys,(maybe even solaras) are selling in these price ranges. Even Honda Accord Coupe LX V6 is less than 23,000 at most dealers. No Leather, but still has nice features like in dash 6cd, 244HP, etc..
    If you were tempted, but still ended up with one of these Compacts like the M3GT, CIvic, or GTI, please let me know your thoughts..
    I am leaning most towards the Mazda 3 GT 5-door for more utility over the Civic, but am thinking that a Accord/Camry type car in a sport model might offer more bang for the buck.
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