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Honda Civic vs Toyota Corolla vs Mazda3

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'm in NY and that is still better than the 22-26 MPG I get in my '96 Altima w/ a 2.4L.

    Yeah, but MY number was with 90% highway driving...my commute is i84 to i684 to exit 2. I spend about 52 miles on the highway and 2 miles on "other" stuff, each way. ;) Actually, maybe that's 95%....
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    The A/C in the Camry is ice cold - no complaints here, and I have not read that complaint on the 3 websites I visit - where did you see that?

    I have not heard anyone complain about the new Corolla's A/C temperature either.
  • smallcar1smallcar1 Member Posts: 76
    There were so many complaints about the A/C on the Mazda3 that the hosts moved the discussion to its own topic for Mazda3 claimate control issues.
  • smallcar1smallcar1 Member Posts: 76
    For all highway mileage that is low.

    I'm in Brooklyn and use the car mostly on weekends so I am sometimes in traffic during the day but come home late at night so there is no traffic on the highway then so half my trip is at a steady 60 mph.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    You must be around White Plains...right? Used to be right up the pike from you in Briarcliff for many years. Not sure how my 4 cylinder Civic would handle all those hills in Westchester. Or any 4 cylinder car for that matter. Last time I was there, the rental company gave me a brand new Impala LTZ because of my spinal issues and I must say that car could handle any hill I threw at it with no problem. And there was one hill overlooking the Hudson towards Scarborough that almost killed the 6 cylinder Grand Am that I had the previous year.
    Down here in South Florida a small econocar is a good thing but if I still lived up north, I'd definitely want a 6 cylinder car at least.

    The Sandman :)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, I work in Rye Brook, which is in between White Plains and Greenwich, CT. I live in Beacon, NY though.
  • sparklandsparkland Member Posts: 120
    We shopped the Civic EX against the Corolla XLE. We liked the inside of the Civic a little better-more refined, but liked the styling of the Corolla.

    As far as pricing, the Civic EX was $18,900 and the LX was about $17,700. The Corolla XLE was the same as the Civic EX but with NAV that went up to $19,900.

    We liked the XLE but in the end went with the Civic because my wife liked the Royal Blue Pearl color. The interior of the XLE was really light either gray or beige. :shades: Probably should have waited for the traction control on the 2009 model but needed the car right away.

    Good luck shopping.
  • usfcrim76usfcrim76 Member Posts: 4
    Took a test drive in an I Touring value and a new civic last week. The Mazda wins hands down. I couldn't believe how quiet the 3 was over the Civic, the advantage of features over the Civic, and the $3k price advantage of the Mazda. Only two things the Civic has advantage is the keyless entry is all enclosed in the key vs. the key fob of the Mazda, and the lack of a grey interior on the 3. Neither will deter me from buying a 3 come the end of July or August.

    Oh and the Civic is $260 more a year insurace vs. the Mazda $150 more a year than what i'm paying now.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ...the keyless entry is all enclosed in the key vs. the key fob of the Mazda...

    I'm not a fan of the fad to include the keyless remote buttons with the keys. That tends to make the keys bigger and more expensive to replace. With a separate key and fob, it's no problem geting a replacement key at your neighborhood hardware store for a couple of bucks, and a replacement fob at a low price on eBay etc. Where can you get the fancy keys with integrated remote control except from dealers?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Who is replacing their keys regularly?

    I like the integrated key; back in my last house all I carried was the key. I had a garage door opener and a spare back door key in the car. No need for a keychain.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Ah, to be young and carefree again, with no need for any other keys (and a house where the power never goes out)! Wait until you are married a few years... and maybe have a spouse who has a problem keeping track of keys. Then get back to us.

    To be honest, I usually just carry a car key on the keyfob chain. But one of my keys is a $1.75 copy from the hardware store (DW lost the other one). And one of the keyfobs is a $22 job I got from eBay (DW lost the other one). Over the past five years I've had to replace half a dozen car keys and keyfobs. Keeping track of those things is just not one of DW's priorities.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ah, to be young and carefree again, with no need for any other keys (and a house where the power never goes out)!

    Does your key have an immobilizer chip? $1.75 is CHEAP!

    Also, notice I said a spare door key was in the car too. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    You must not have a computerized key then. You can get a computer key for around $20 or so on eBay (depending on make), however, it is the labor charge to program it that is a killer. The average computer key cut and program is around $100 or more.

    Also, if one looses their key, the fob is most likely with it, so both are in need of replacement. I am a fan of the all-in-one key and fob. Takes up less room in my pocket!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Depends on how big those keys-with-buttons are. Some are REALLY big, which I've noticed with some rentals, and they are a pain to stick in my pants pocket. The Civic's isn't that big from what I recall. Key-with-fob folds into a tidy package.

    I am not a fan of computerized keys either. If I lose a regular key and fob, it's a couple of bucks per key (if I am smart and have a house key on the ring also) plus around $20 or so for the fob in eBay land. Some are user-programmable, some are not.

    If I didn't have this domestic problem of having keys/fobs lost on a regular basis, I might like the integrated fobs more also. But such is life.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Man, I know what you mean about the keys with attached fobs. I have a Z4, and the key is a pocketfull. It doesn't take long for it to cause wear inside the pants pocket. When I walk into the house with it in my pocket, my wife thinks I'm really happy to see her...

    Conversly, I really like my 08 Altima keyless fob key. It is slightly larger than other manufacturer fobs, but it has no key attached, and can simply saty in my pocket the entire time.
  • cottoncbcottoncb Member Posts: 2
    Reading these posts I now know how so many car companies can stay in business - there are as many reasons to choose a particular car as there are models to choose from!

    I've owned a couple of Hondas and my wife has a Mazda 6 that she loves. I'm down to the Civic and the Mazda3 although I will have to say the price of the Focus was very tempting. But, as Warren Buffet said; "Price is what you pay, but value is what you get."

    After driving the above 3, I'd add that I've eliminated the 09 Corolla because of the steering. It felt like it would "hang" slightly when trying to correct for drift, resulting in a slight over-correction - very disturbing.

    Right now I'm leaning toward the Honda but that could change after I do a little more research.
  • honshuhonshu Member Posts: 11
    I am a little biased, I have been lucky enough to test drive a civic, and the corolla '09 model. I am in Canada so some things here may not relate to you.

    Insurance

    1. Corolla is the cheapest in Insurance compared to the Civic. The Civic is ranked #1 as the most stolen car in North America, and secondly it is considered as a sport sedan. The Corolla is one of the least stolen cars, and it is classified as a family mid-size sedan now. The insurance for a driver that has a clean driving record for 6 years continuously, has completed a governement certified driving school, and advance snow driving schools, University Grad, Engineer, does not smoke and is 33 years old, will be paying $150 a month for the Civic, in turn the same person would be paying $130 a month for the Corolla. All terms and benefits are exactly the same.

    GAS

    2. Gas economy is almost identical, but with the Corolla, instead of racing down to the red light, let it cruise down to it by slapping it down to neutral. Saves at least another 30% gas, where the civic only saves 10%.

    Passengers,Luggage,and Packages.

    3. It can fit all 5 people and at least 6 peices of fullsize luggages. In addition It can fit 3 child car seats in the back perfectly.

    4. Would be able to haul a full kingsize mattress on the roof and the un-assembled bed frame inside the car with the seats folded down, but allowing only 1 passenger.

    MODIFICATIONS

    5. Many aftermarket products available for both products.
    6. Police would check civics more than Corollas.
    7. Corolla's is like an appliance, where it is gauranteed to turn on.
    8. A Corolla has more survivability and drivability after low velocity accidents compared to Civics. You can drive a damaged front end corolla at least 25km to a repair location with fluids dripping (just as long it is not the gas) safely.

    I have been driving Corolla's since 1998-2008. Driving my friends Civic for the least 4 years on and off.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Police would check civics more than Corollas

    Based on what? You think more criminals drive Honda vs. Toyota? That's nonsense.

    Corolla's is like an appliance, where it is gauranteed to turn on.

    The Corolla IS like an appliance. It is as fun to operate as a Washing Machine. Both Civic and Corolla are reliable.

    A Corolla has more survivability and drivability after low velocity accidents compared to Civics. You can drive a damaged front end corolla at least 25km to a repair location with fluids dripping (just as long it is not the gas) safely.

    You mentioned the Corolla is better compared to Civics... this must mean you've driven both a Corolla and a Civic with wrecked front ends from the same speed and angle, with fluids dripping along the way; how else would you know?

    Gas economy is almost identical, but with the Corolla, instead of racing down to the red light, let it cruise down to it by slapping it down to neutral. Saves at least another 30% gas, where the civic only saves 10%.

    Another silly notion, that a Corolla saves 20% more gas idling than a Civic does. I hope you are talking about a manual transmission going into neutral. Dropping an automatic into neutral while driving = bad idea, for several reasons.
  • honshuhonshu Member Posts: 11
    Police would check civics more than Corollas

    Based on what? You think more criminals drive Honda vs. Toyota? That's nonsense


    Want the mega list of the internet websites that describe why?

    www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071219/stol...71219/20071219?hub=- Canada

    www.canadiandirect.com/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=72

    www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071219.wstolen1219/CommentStory/Na- tional

    www.cisnb-srcnb.ca/downloads/WordOnTheStreet-V06.pdf

    Would you like to be educated more?

    There 2 major reasons why civics are checked.

    1. They are the most stolen vehical
    2. Illegal Modifications :blush:

    The 2 major reasons why Corolla's are checked.

    1. Why they turn on like an applice by pushing a button.
    2. If they are doing the speed limit, there must be something wrong. :P :blush:

    A Corolla has more survivability and drivability after low velocity accidents compared to Civics. You can drive a damaged front end corolla at least 25km to a repair location with fluids dripping (just as long it is not the gas) safely.

    You mentioned the Corolla is better compared to Civics... this must mean you've driven both a Corolla and a Civic with wrecked front ends from the same speed and angle, with fluids dripping along the way; how else would you know?


    Actually It was not me driving the civic at that time, but my friend did rear end a bus, after seeing a red 68 Mustang Convertable doing the same thing on the otherside. He couldnt turn on his car after that.

    Gas economy is almost identical, but with the Corolla, instead of racing down to the red light, let it cruise down to it by slapping it down to neutral. Saves at least another 30% gas, where the civic only saves 10%.

    Another silly notion, that a Corolla saves 20% more gas idling than a Civic does. I hope you are talking about a manual transmission going into neutral. Dropping an automatic into neutral while driving = bad idea, for several reasons.


    Well it did actually work for me. But I would like to hear your reasons for not to? That I would need to educated on.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well it did actually work for me. But I would like to hear your reasons for not to? That I would need to educated on.

    +Dropping an automatic transmission into neutral while in motion puts unnecessary wear on your transmission, and simply cannot be good for transmission life.

    +If going to a stop light, your car being in gear will help you slow down with engine braking, while still allowing you to coast and use little fuel. In neutral, your brakes must do more work to slow your car, causing the pads to wear quicker, the rotors to be hotter (especially in stop and go traffic), and could warp your rotors if you use the brakes a lot while they are hot.

    +In neutral, if you needed to make an emergency maneuver involving acceleration (a car coming too fast behind you, or an emergency vehicle perhaps) you couldn't promptly accelerate out of its way, and would instead waste precious seconds moving the car into gear, and waiting while the transmission electronically shifts from N to D. By then it may be too late; most emergency maneuvers don't allow for an extra 2 or 3 seconds; they are typically now-or-never.

    The 2 major reasons why Corolla's are checked.

    1. Why they turn on like an applice by pushing a button.


    You imply that a Civic is relatively unreliable compared to a Corolla. I disagree, and say that both are reliable on the long-term, but the Civic is much more fun to drive, without the "appliance" feel. Also, a Civic that looks like a street racer may be checked. :
    image
    But tell the truth; most Civics don't look like this.

    Your average Civic that looks like this won't be a blip on a policeman's radar.:
    image

    You mentioned the Corolla is better compared to Civics... this must mean you've driven both a Corolla and a Civic with wrecked front ends from the same speed and angle, with fluids dripping along the way; how else would you know?

    Actually It was not me driving the civic at that time, but my friend did rear end a bus, after seeing a red 68 Mustang Convertable doing the same thing on the otherside. He couldnt turn on his car after that.


    Two different accidents = different parameters, bumper heights, speeds, angles. You can't compare two different crashes in this manner, which is why we use standardized crash tests.

    The current Civic received a score of Good in all categories in the frontal crash test from the IIHS. For the Civic, they can be quoted as saying : Measures taken from the dummy indicate a low risk of any significant injuries in a crash of this severity.

    The new 2009 Corolla did not receive a Good across the board (although it got it overall), receiving only "Acceptable" in the head injury category, saying: A high head acceleration occurred when the dummy's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag, indicating that head injuries would be possible.

    Personally, I'll take the safer car over the one that might be driveable after an accident (but not for long if you're leaking toxic chemicals everywhere you drive, as you said you were leaking fluids).
  • honshuhonshu Member Posts: 11
    Great info, sometimes or not most of the times us old schoolers need to be taught, thankx, really appreicated.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    I gotta say, I'm completely and utterly unimpressed with the new corolla. I knew someone who was interning at the corolla factory here and he wasn't impressed with the american model either.

    I think some of the sad things about the corolla are the very cushy driving feel and the damn 4 speed auto still. I can't believe a brand new 2009 redesigned car would still have a standard 4 speed. Honda is purely 5 and 6 speeds now, how come Toyota can't even compare on that? I'd most certainly recommend a Civic or Mazda3 over a corolla to anyone for any need. And if you want a non-sporty car with 4 speed auto like a Corolla, an Elantra is a better choice with a $2k+ savings.

    Also the lack of standard features is a pretty big turnoff as well. Honda also gets a negative on that regard though. And what's up with having an engine that's still 8hp less than the Civic that was designed a few years earlier? I thought Toyota was supposed to make good engines. :confuse:
    There's just nothing great about this vehicle at all. And reliability isn't a good reason with Elantra taking the CR reliability away and most other car makers being nearly comparable in recent studies. Toyota is sitting on their reputation of the past...and not catching up to the cars of the future. A Civic blows it away in every category and doesn't even cost more.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Honda offers ONLY 5-speed automatics. Toyota has 4, 5, and 6 speed autos, 8-speed if you include Lexus.

    I can't believe a Corolla XLE (the top model besides the sporty XRS) doesn't have Cruise standard. It has been standard on the mid-level Civic LX since something like the late 80s.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Ah you're right, we'd have to lump in Acura for the 6's. And I'm really complaining about the Corolla, Matrix, Yaris...basically their entire small car lineup. Their ENTIRE damn Scion lineup is 4 speeds as well. At least the Camry is a lot more competitive...not that I particularly like it either. Mazda's also at fault for still having 4's, but they haven't exactly made a brand new redesigned 2009 car now have they?
    How come Honda can make a 5 speed fit and still keep it affordable?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    About the only thing the Corolla tops the Civic and Mazda3 on is that VSC is available as an option on even low-end models like the LE. Not available on the Civic DX/LX/EX at all, and not available on the Mazda3i. That is supposed to change for 2009, with the Civic rumored to get VSC at least as an option.

    And also the Corolla gets exemplary FE with the 1.8L engine (32 mpg overall on CR's recent tests), but that's not all that much better than the Civic or Mazda3i.

    Other than that, I don't see any big plus for the Corolla over the Civic or Mazda3i. The Corolla probably has a smoother/quieter ride than those cars, but at the expense of handling, and as you said, if you want a non-sporty small car the Elantra is a less expensive alternative.

    I'd like the Corolla more if it had a higher-quality interior with a more comfortable driving position, less vague steering, and a bit more rear seat room. Standard VSC (ala the Elantra SE) would be nice too, but VSC does seem pretty easy to get on the LE trim.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    I never really noticed this economy sedan comparison but it brings home the reason I have to say this rule. Friends don't let friends buy corollas. Please follow it everyone :) Gotta drop that ridiculous 50k per month corolla purchasing streak. Get everyone into those Mazda3, Civics, Rabbits, Elantras, etc!
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=126610
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    LOL. Someone could do a lot worse than a Corolla (Forenza, maybe?). It's not that it's a bad car, right? But it just doesn't stand out in the crowd any more, IMO, and especially not at its asking price. If you hadn't noticed, Civics and Elantras are selling like hotcakes too. And some others. All are benefitting from the shift to smaller, more economical cars.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    I just think everyone benefits if toyota doesn't collect massive sales from selling mediocre cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you looked at Focus sales lately? It's not just Toyota getting away with selling mediocre cars...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Acura doesn't offer a 6-speed auto either, by the way, not that its on topic. Honda isn't leading the way across the board! Just clearing that up. ;)

    Have a great weekend everyone!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I've heard at the Mazda "water cooler" that the 2009 Mazda3 will put a 5-speed auto in the next gen Mazda3i (thank god, it needs one!!!) Also, possibly a 6-speed manual for the s model.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    At least you expect a mediocre car when you buy a Ford.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Don't forget that the Mazda3 is, in effect, a "Ford." But hardly mediocre. ;)
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Focus is still only 1/3 the sales of a Corolla. And honestly, the car isn't that much worse than a corolla. The interior is about even, the technology with sync is better, and the driving dynamics are basically 2000 sporty vs 2009 mushy. Not exactly a huge advantage for toyota. And most people with any information would know it's not a good driving car these days, it's for the silly features and the mpg.
    And while Ford owns a chunk of Mazda, mazda still does whatever they want with the cars...their engineering for driving dynamics is just plain better. Also only the european focus uses the same platform until redesign.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wouldn't call the 2009 Corolla "mushy". But it does have an exceptionally smooth, quiet ride for a small car. A good tradeoff compared to crisp handlers with firmer rides like the Civic and Mazda3, IMO.

    At least the Corolla offers all the latest safety technology--unlike the Civic and Mazda3i. And Focus.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Don't find our Civic or 3 that firm actually...both ride really smooth. Again, it comes down to peresonal preferences and perceptions. I could not tell Backy that his Elantra drives a certain way just based on some test drives no more than he can tell me how our cars ride. With age cars soften up and different areas of the country have different road surfaces. I've found that nothing is really absolute.
    All great cars in this segment though.

    The Sandman :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I was giving my opinion of how the Corolla rides compared to the Civic and Mazda3. Others may have a different opinion. However, if you have not yet driven the 2009 Corolla to compare it to the Civic and Mazda3, I think if you do you will find that the Corolla's ride is considerably smoother and quieter than that of the other two cars. That may not be important for some buyers, but I see it as a significant difference in these 3 cars.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I know I'm off topic here, but drove the '08 Sentra and '08 Versa today. Versa was a nice small car with a very large greenhouse look and comfy seats but the auto tranny wasn't up to the task. Didn't drive the CVT equipped car but bet it would have been much better. The CVT Sentra on the other hand was an awesome drive...seemless shifts with unlimited power up the power band and the car never felt bogged down no matter what I threw at it. Outstanding actually with no difference between it and our 2.3 3s actually. Had the wife drive them both also and she also said it drove almost identical to her 3. I was impressed!
    Also checked out the Optima, Spectra, Rio, G5 and the G6. Now back to the topic at hand.

    The Sandman :)
  • momusmomus Member Posts: 4
    Find me another four-door sedan that gets at least 25 mpg city and offers leather, navigation, and stability control. Please.

    (The above parameters are non-negotiable. I tried. If I had my way, I'd buy a 3i with Katzkin and a $200 TomTom.)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    How about a Jetta Diesel? Per the (rediculously low) EPA numbers, the 2009 Jetta Sedan gets 30 mpg city and 41 mpg highway, and it is available with all of the other goodies that you say are "non negotiable".

    That said, I've now had two cars with stability control, and personally, I don't get what all the fuss is about, especially for FWD oriented cars.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The '09 Sonata Limited I4 will get very close to 25 mpg city, depending on what you mean by "city", based on its better fuel economy than the 2006-8 Sonatas and my driving exerperiences with several Sonatas from those years. The '08 Accord EX-L I4 with nav would be really close also. As would the '09 Optima (same powertrain as the '09 Sonata, and nav will be available on it).

    And the 2009 Civic EX-L with nav and VSC will meet all of those requirements easily.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Find me another four-door sedan that gets at least 25 mpg city and offers leather, navigation, and stability control. Please.

    Toyota Prius?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, it's a hatchback, and some folks won't be caught dead in a hatchback, but it certainly meets all the other criteria!
  • momusmomus Member Posts: 4
    When will the Jetta TDI be available in the US?
  • momusmomus Member Posts: 4
    2009 Sonata: 22 city...close, but no cigar. If I could swing that, I could get into a Mazda3 GT and be happy. Good car, though.

    Prius: Good suggestion. I'd rather drive a Corolla.

    2009 Civic: I hope, hope, hope the '09 has stability control. Any official word? I never thought I'd be so excited about the prospect of driving a Civic, but yeah...

    It may be a race against time for the '09 Civic and TDI. Thanks for the suggestions.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I thought you were talking about real-world mpg numbers, vs. EPA.

    The 2009 Civic WILL have VSC, it was announced by Honda a long time ago. Just not sure yet in which trims. But certainly the top-end leather + nav trim will have it. Did you know the 2009 Fit Sport will also offer VSC (have to get nav too)? You could put aftermarket leather in it, and there you go.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Dealerships have demo models now available for test drives, and the cars are supposed to start hitting our shores in volume in August or September.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How about a Jetta Diesel?

    Fine, if reliability isn't an issue....
  • peddler3peddler3 Member Posts: 10
    Does the mazda 3 in any form have heated side mirrors? I havn't been able to find any info on this.

    Thanks
This discussion has been closed.