Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Acura RSX Owners: Meet the Members

24

Comments

  • markg4markg4 Posts: 44
    i have 620 miles on my stock tc and coming from a 2000 civic si i can't see much if any difference in the handling between the 2. the tc feels heavier but in a good way.
  • natenj1971natenj1971 Posts: 174
    from reports the gas mileage of the tc is pretty bad compared to the rsx. Any TC owners doing better then 25mpg in mixed driving?
  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    I have 8800 miles on my AT tC sinc Oct. and have consistantly averaged 28 - 28.5 MPG. Most of my daily work communte (25 miles) is on 1/2 expressway (65-75MPH) & 1/2 hwy (with lights,50-55mph). I would say at least 30 - 40% of my driving is in typical suburban traffic - No long expressway trips.

    I can't imagine what drivers (including car mag tests) are doing to get 21 MPG! I like to step on it and have some fun and do not hesitate to do it. In other words, I am not treating the car as though it were a Prius and I'm out to max the MPG. It is a fun car to drive and I drive it to have fun.

    I shopped the RSX, liked it a lot, but could not justify the several thousand dollar price difference - it wasn't THAT nice.

    Completely satisfied with the tC. The MPG is better than I expected. Coming from a Liberty that was lucky to get 16 MPG, I would have been happy with the 23 city the tC is rated at.

    Maybe I have an exception to the norm - lucky me - but I can remember only once recording less than 28 MPG, that was one tankful @ 25+ MPG in heavy snows and heavy traffic.

    Not sure what the RSX gets, but I doubt I would have done any better with it gas-wise.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    the Scion tC wins over the RSX by a large margin.

    I'm still thinking about trading my Sportage in for one sometime in 2005. It's hard, though, because the Sportage is a great rig.

    Question: do you get any of the "crackles", "snapples" and "pops" that others have complained about in the moonroof area, dashboard or even the trunk(or anywhere else). I read about the trunk one for the first time today. Some guys just say that they simply have their stereo on so loud that they could care less even if their tC does snap or pop. How about yours, does yours talk to you? The concerns seem petty, but some people are saying that the sounds are truly driving them batty.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    I've heard what I think was the roof-pop twice on extremely cold mornings as I turned down and out of my driveway - otherwise no popping problem and no other sounds from the top.

    Any rattles or creaks have been minor and intermittent. I did have the rattle in the rear (hatch I believe) off and on and was going to have it addressed at my last dealer visit (oil) but have not noticed it at all for a couple of weeks so didn't mention it.

    My other car is a Lexus, so any aggrevating noices in the tC would be quite noticable in comparison, but I must say that there has been nothing I would consider a problem and nothing that has been consistantly noticable.
    Whatever creaks or "voices" that do arise are minor, not constant and disappear as fast as they came. Anything of significance would drive me nuts, believe me!

    All-in-all, I would not complain about any obtrusive noises. The car is solid, feels substantial and does not in any way come close to the "rattle-trap" status common in this size and class of car. As for 'petty', I agree that some people like to complain. What's nice about the tC is that if you are one of those people, you really have to look hard and long to find something on the tC. No complaints, no regrets - LOVE IT!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    what color did you choose? I have looked at silver on the tC on the web, and, I must say, the tC is the only car I've found that looks great in silver. It looks good enough to buy one in silver, and I don't like silver as a car color, normally. I'm moving in another month or so, and the only dealer in that state(200 miles to the east of where I'll be living)has a silver tC in 5-speed form for the base $16,515 price right now. It's mighting tempting to me! I have a feeling, from what I've read about this car, that I would not want to stop driving it. I'd want to take road trips constantly. The first one would be 180 miles west of us to Mount Rushmore.

    You have an automatic tranny in yours, right? Glad you're digging yours! :D

    tonylexus...since my dealer will be 200 miles to the east of us...do you think I'd stand a pretty good chance of just driving mine off the lot and not experience any problems that would require me to have to go back to the dealer? It is a Toyota product-I would think so. I only ask that question because the only Scion dealer I've located on the web is in Sioux Falls, SD. That's right, the only one in the state. I will, of course, keep searching for other ones, but that looks like it for now. SIoux Falls sits on the eastern edge of South Dakota and Pierre sits smack dab in the center of the state. I trust Scion build quality enough to proceed if I want to next month with it.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    "Not sure what the RSX gets, but I doubt I would have done any better with it gas-wise."

    I get 31 mpg all the time in my manual shift, so with the auto I would expect about the same mileage you are getting.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    I haven't had to go back to the dealer for anything other than my free oil changes since Oct (8800 miles). Yes, it is AT.

    I have Black Cherry. Great in the sun and takes on a new life at night. Of course, you have to keep it clean. Like the silver too - it was my second choice, but my other car is silver as was the one before that, and now it seems every-other car out there is silver. Like black too but it just didn't seem to fit the car. Believe it or not, the white looks good, but Black Cherry won out for me. Was lucky enough to see every color lined up next to each other in sun-shade, Black Cherry impressed me most.

    Only option I bought was auto-dimming mirror, one of those things that once you had one can't live without it. Comes in handy in a vehicle that low. Has a nice feature - an ambient light that shines down on the counsol in choice of 3 colors.

    Hope your initial luck will be as good as mine - the odds are with you, it's a Toyota.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    "the Scion tC wins over the RSX by a large margin."

    What you get for the extra money with the Acura is superb handling and a stereo without a ton of little buttons and plastic aluminum. I like that the Acura radio has rotary knobs for volume and tuning. Three things that are important to me (handling, stereo, no pluminum), but I could easily see where they would not be worth the premium for many buyers. And the flip side of the stereo thing is the tC has a better one for sound.

    Plus I am not too sure how much I would ike a roof that is all glass - how are people feeling about how hot this makes the interior in the summer?

    Of course, it clinched it that the tC wasn't actually out yet when I bought my car! :-P

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    I was only going on emotion when I typed that out, man! I like the Acura RSX, too, but I am floored by this new Scion tC and I must start thinking of convincing reasons now to tell my wife why we must get one. I can't believe I'm typing this but I like the tC in silver. It looks especially nice on this small coupe from Scion. My first choice is BCP, too, tonylexus, and I also like the Indigo Ink color as well. I like 'em all on this rig!

    The auto-dimming mirror sounds like a great idea, really.

    I have heard that the tC's glass roof is tinted a tad. Is that true, tonylexus? I think that is a true statement. It gets scorchingly hot in Pierre, South Dakota, but not humid, thankfully. A tinted top should help with sunburnt head-tops, eh?

    My top reason to convince the wife is the tC's better gas mileage. Should be in the upper 20's, right? The Sportage gets around 19 city, 25 highway, with it's 5-speed tranny. Yeah, I've heard that the tC's stereo rocks nicely. I've made my contact with the sales people already and we have each other's e-mail addresses. Now, to come up with additional reasons to trade-in. Here's one: the Scion will hold resale value better than the Sportage, right? I'm gettin' those ducks lined up, men! :D
    Another one-the Sportage's trade-in value is gonna be slipping quickly now-it's got 95,350 miles right now. That's a good reason, too, right? That Sportage is in tip-top shape, though. Mint condition. Should get $4500-$5,000 trade-in value for it.

    BTW-Pierre, SD, has an "earthen-rolled dam" built 6 miles north of town. It is all underneath you as you drive over it and on one side there's a huge lake created by the dam. There's the huge turbines sticking out of the lake. Lake Oahe and the Oahe Dam... down below the Missouri River continues flowing along towards Pierre. It is one of only a few dams in the world like that...earthen filled like that...the powerhouse built solid way down below your car as you cruise over it. Beautiful views from up there. Pierre is also a sportsman's paradise..hunting grouse and other fowl and fishing from the Missouri River and Lake Oahe. Several varieties can be had and the water is fresh and unpolluted. I may eventually buy a few kayaks and maybe a powerboat living there. But it does get hot during July and August-at times over 100. A tinted glasstop is a necessity.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    Can't disagree with you too much. The handling on the RSX is better, but again, not enough to separate these cars by a great deal. I too prefer knobs and let Scion know this, but $2k a knob wasn't worth it, especially, as you say, for a radio with lesser sound. The extra buttons on the radio are for SAT Ready, and MP3, something I don't think you got with the RSX. As for the plastic, to each his own, but I can find what some would call 'cheap plastic' on the interior of cars costing 5 times what the tC cost - that's just what is used now-a-days.

    The glass top has not presented any problem and looks unique. This is personal preference, but I prefer the tC syling as well - again more unique.

    I can appreciate the choice you made based on what is most important to you. I looked long and hard at the top models in this class (RSX, Mini S, Mazda3...) and with all things considered I still believe you can't beat the tC. I enjoyed a great cruise vacation with the money I 'saved' opting for the tC and the car has exceeded my expectations.
  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    No doubt you should do better than 19 MPG city. The glass top has presented no problems. I would expect that your weather would be similar to what I get here in Michigan - anything from -10 to +100. I was pleasantly impressed with the tC this winter, warmed up fast and handled well. Have been thru some hot days but not mid summer. I don't expect any problems.

    When I first showed the tC to my wife, she thought I was crazy for considering such a small car. The best way to convince your wife is do what I did - take her for a ride in one. Obviously, it worked.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    *chuckle*

    Liked the "$2K per knob" thing! :-)

    The way I figure it, the better handling and 200+ pounds less weight of the RSX are worth (speaking only for myself of course) $2000, the radio knobs are worth a couple hundred bucks (totally irrational, I know), the nicer interior plastics with the rubber dash surround in the RSX is worth $1000 easy, and the lack of plastic aluminum is worth a good $500 or so. Since I paid $19K flat for the Acura, I figure I saved about $1200 by my own estimation.

    Add to that a week-to-week average of 31 mpg, where I know it would be hard to get near 30 in the tC, and I don't regret it. Indeed, my doubts if any tend the other way: for the same price (or a little less) as my car I could have had the Matrix XRS or the Mazda3s five-door, and gotten myself two extra doors to properly carry three passengers. With similar straight-line performance to our cars. It has proven to be the case that I don't carry passengers that often, and my old 4Runner will do the duty sometimes anyway, so I am pretty satisfied overall. Not to mention I am not a huge fan of those cars' interiors either.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    well, we can get a nice, long drive from the only Scion dealer in South Dakota, Billion Automotive, in Sioux Falls, SD, back out west to Pierre! I'll give us a few days(or weeks)to get settled in and then make the sojourn of 225 miles to the east to Billion. I just read a good report on the tC's air conditioning working very well. That should score good points with her. I'm actually hoping nobody else buys the 5-speed silver one over there so we can test drive that one. Whoo-hoo! :P

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,629
    it's tinted pretty well. Doesn;'t seem to cause a heating problem, and you do have shades. I tend to have mine open whenever possible, so that does let in the sun.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    exactly! That's the reason to have a sunroof-to let the sun shine in! I've never had a man-made hole in any of my car's roofs before-kinda lookin' forward to it. :blush: :blush:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    Glad you like the RSX, I'm sure I too would have been thrilled with one. I, however, could not touch one here (w/AT) for under 20k and that was an '04 vs an '05 tC (which would mean up to $1,500 come resale time). I paid 17,265 w/AT & auto-dim mirror. Add 6% tax to price difference and it was too much of a difference given (my opinion) that there wasn't anything of significance to justify it. If I was going to spend over 20k, I would have bought a used Lexus IS. That's what it came down to for me.

    If you're getting 31MPG, bless you. You're right, I am not doing that well (28.5 average) and there are others complaining of getting less than me. I was shopping for a daily commuter that I could have some fun in and not give up the 'luxury' features I've come accustomed to. The tC fit the bill in every respect and at a price over $2k less than anything comparable in the class.

    I'm not afraid to pay extra for something worthwhile. While I liked a lot of things about the RSX and other competitors, I just couldn't see what I was getting for the extra bucks. Call me cheap, but I have no regrets and I do understand why you made the choice you made.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    I would NEVER call you cheap!

    My hope would be that everyone buy the car they like best.

    :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • natenj1971natenj1971 Posts: 174
    Have had no luck finding a tc so I need to ask all of you - I fit ok in an RSX - I'm tall(6'4) and my leg does not get stuck between the steering wheel and the center console. I drove an Si and my knee would bump into the dash/console when I would shift (really like the placement of the shifter in this car by the way). I'm wondering how the tall drivers are doing in the tC. From all the pics it looks like it might be tight for me between the steering wheel and center console.

    Thanks
  • goosegoose Posts: 77
    Its time to replace my vehicle (truck, none Honda) with a nice, energy efficient vehicle. I have a bias towards Honda since buying a Acura in the eighties. I test drove the regular RSX and the tC. Heres my opinion.

    The regular RSX ride is bouncy and road noise is tiring. Its stereo has knobs but is not MP3 capable. The back seat is good for very short trips. It has auto climate control and the dash as a whole is very nice. The Acura name comes with bragging rights.

    The tC seems a little quieter and its torque happens sooner than the RSX so it feels funner. The tC's extra 5" of wheelbase eliminates the bouncy feeling noticed on the RSX. The longer wheelbase also means more leg room for the back seat. Also, when the back seats are folded down longer items will fit. The stereo is MP3 capable and you can add a sub. The tC dash surface is coarse, but the instrument gauges are as good as the RSX. The dash is functional and none tiring. Trust me, I've owned tiring dash boards. The Scion is a new/hip brand.

    Which vehicle to choose. In 1987 I owned a new/hip brand, a Acura Integra. What a difference 18 years make. The RSX is made in Japan just like the tC. The RSX comes with 16" wheels, the tC with 17". The Acura raises my insurance by $180.00 every six months, the tC will lower it by $35.00 every six months. The Acura cannot be personalized like the tC, at least not at the dealer. The tC comes with zero price haggling. The tC configured with $3,400.00 in added options is less than the RSX. Side air bags are a wanted option not found on the RSX. The new/hip wins again. I'm for the tC. ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    side airbags are standard on the RSX.

    The RSX does five points better on average in fuel economy, which will save you about $250 a year ($2.50/gallon, 15K miles per year), not quite offsetting the insurance increase you mentioned above. Those low profile 17" tires are going to cost you a good $100 more per set to replace every three years, maybe $150 (RSX's 205/55/16 is a VERY conventional size and has been for four or five years, so tire prices in that size are coming way down), There goes another $40 or $50 per year, and you can see we are almost offsetting those insurance costs.

    Obviously, YMMV, and I am just making the point that when you start to analyze numbers that small in a new car purchase, "behind the scenes" factors begin to play a bigger role too.

    To my mind, what one cannot overlook between these two cars is the $3500 price gulf. As I said in my post a few pages back, that additional $3500 is easily worth it for me in terms of better performance (handling specifically), better interior, and one or two more amenities like the ACC. But those things are going to hold a different value for everyone. And one of the criticisms above is all too true - the RSX has a lot of intruding road noise at highway speeds.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • goosegoose Posts: 77
    I stand corrected on the side air bags. Its side current bags that aren't available. I'm not beating up on the Acura, I've owned four Honda's and two Acura's. For the longest time I thought Acura was perfect. That was until I heard about the transmission problems on the CL. The TSX has gotten numerous complaints and the MDX had drive train issues. What does this have to do with the RSX? Well, now am willing to consider other brands since my beloved Acura isn't perfect. It will be interesting to see what Acura does with the next model/replacement RSX. Unfortunately, the Acura name will mean premium insurance quotes no matter what happens. Maybe Honda will spin off a new division.

    Anyway, your points are noteworthy. Unless you're at a race track the performance difference you claim is not a issue in stop and go traffic. Its nice to see a vehicle division that causes others to change. Don't you? ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    actually, it is my understanding that the RSX gets such high insurance rates because the previous generation Integras had such an abysmal record of being stolen or vandalized all the time. And of course it doesn't help that it is a two-door sport coupe.

    goose, it is my turn to agree with the points you make, except one:

    "Unless you're at a race track the performance difference you claim is not a issue in stop and go traffic"

    The thing is, I wasn't referring to timed runs, I was referring to handling that is so much better that it makes the car more fun to drive even in everyday trafficky situations. The one thing I do very little of, however, is stop and go on the highway, where the car's better handling would obviously make no difference at all. But it turns corners on the street more quickly and with less body roll, and is more responsive in quick lane changing, and 100 other little differences like that.

    Now as for Acura causing other manufacturers to change, I am not sure they have, but if so I applaud it! :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • tonylexustonylexus Posts: 94
    I agree with what's being said about handling characteristics and wish to emphasize that for "normal" driving conditions there has to be one heck of a difference in a cars make-up for it to be truly noticable and/or appreciated.

    When comparing cars in the class of the tC, RSX, et al, I don't think you'll find that significant diffrence evident. (even considering the 'little' things) What diffrences you'll find when really pushing these cars is paid for by a less compliant ride the other 98% of the time your driving. I think you really have to go beyond this class of "sporty" cars to get into a real "sport" car tuned suspension that would impress a true enthusiast (and at a much higher cost).

    I hear and read a lot about the great handling of the RSX, Mazda3 and MINI when compared to the tC but even if one is to concede an advantage, there certainly isn't enough difference to justify the thousands of dollars more in cost.

    I appreciate the insight to analyze cost of insurance, replacement tires, etc., but much of that can be minimized by choice and one could go on forever comparing the cost of every component of these cars. I think it is rightly stated that even with all trhings considered, it is tough to overcome and justify a price difference of over 3 grand among this class of cars. If I were willing to pay 22k or more in this class of vehicle based on handling, I would rather move up in class to a used, real, sports car.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Posts: 240
    06 tC gets knob on the unit and steering wheel stereo controls which RSX lacks.
    Despite having shorter wheelbase RSX has HUGE turning radius rivaling some full size SUVs like Navigator. RSX stock Michelins make the car downright scary to drive in rain. In contrast, tC Yokos are very predictable in foul weather.

    RSX gets stolen far less than Integra, even thieves realize the current Civic isn't worth modding.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,629
    happened to be at the Acura dealer the other day with my kids. Decided the RSX can not serve as a "family" car. Just not enough leg room in the back seat, plus it is a pain to get in and out (the seat doesn't seem to have a lever at the top that lets it tilt and slide, nor does it have a memory). Very inconvenient to get the seat out of the way, than you have to readjust the whole thing.

    Seemed to have less headroom too.

    Overall, my kids confirmed that while the tC is OK for them, the RSX wouldn't be.

    But, if I never (or rarely) planned to use the back seat, I did like the front seats of the RSX better. haven't drvine one in a long time, so can't comment about that aspect.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    "06 tC gets knob on the unit and steering wheel stereo controls which RSX lacks"

    Thank goodness - there is such a thing as clutter - important to avoid in a small car.

    "RSX stock Michelins make the car downright scary to drive in rain"

    Extremely overstated - have you actually done this? Not scary at all. Do I love the HX MXM4s? No.

    "RSX gets stolen far less than Integra, even thieves realize the current Civic isn't worth modding."

    Actually, it is because the RSX is the first Integra to have a standard perimeter alarm system and an immobilizer chip in the key.

    The stock stereo in the tC is a messy sea of little buttons, and a volume knob (long overdue) will not change that. Nor will it change the large swath of cheapish aluminum-painted plastic that glares at you from the center stack, or the silly little door over the stereo that sticks out of the dash two inches whenever you actually want to use the stereo (which for me would be.....all the time!).

    Maybe I am just getting old - the interior of the tC is very obviously designed to appeal to younger tastes.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • irnmdnirnmdn Posts: 240
    The stock stereo in the tC is a messy sea of little buttons, and a volume knob (long overdue) will not change that.
    06 tc gets steering wheel audio controls, buttons on the head unit are non-issue.
    Letters B-o-s-e on RSX head unit will not change the bland sound of the stereo.

    Nor will it change the large swath of cheapish aluminum-painted plastic that glares at you from the center stack
    Agree about painted aluminum, but prefer the symmetrical design of tC's center stack over the odd layout of RSX

    One thing I give to RSX is the slick shifter, nobody does manuals better than Honda.in this price range. However, grab them while you can. 06 is the last year for RSX. Honda is soon to become a Truck and Minivan company.
  • jerchajercha Posts: 4
    I am the original owner of a 1995 Integra. I loved it except for the door dings and recent hail damage. After the hail damage I looked around the parking lot and noticed that a S2000 and my Integra had more hail damage. So I started questioning Honda's great mpg, Could it be thin sheet metal?

    So I widened my search for a new car and included the tC with the RSX.

    The acura interior plastics are superb. I like that soft dashboard feel. The RSX bucket seat fit like a glove and the fabric soft. The RSX radio controls are great for the driver but not for the passenger. Reminded me of a jet fighter.

    TheAcura sales department was high presure and tried to sell me a TSX so I tried it first. I enjoyed the beautiful interior and great ride until I hit a small pothole and the wheels gave a soda can sound. I was very annoyed by that sound and postponed my road testdrive of the RSX.

    I am 30+ married and my wife has an A4 so I thought the tC might be too youthful for me. But the price and my recent discontent with Acura compelled me to try a tC. I test drove it twice.

    The first was white tC with a big spoiler. I thought this is a quiet coupe. The interior was decent but could be jazzed up with blue lights. The seats were also good. Exterior ties with RSX

    For the second tC test drive. I brought my wife and the salesrep. The salesrep told me to floor it and try the suspension and hard braking. It felt heavy compared to my old integra and the TSX but it also had less tire and pothole noises. It also felt solid A4-ish. She also loved the available interior accessories.

    So if you are planning to race get the RSX or TSX but if you want solid quiet coupe with accessory selection and no hassle get the tC.

    I put a deposit down for a tC coming in 2 weeks :) If I ever need more power or better handles I can even get the suspension and supercharger from the dealer. Love the tC.
  • kozmokozmo Posts: 6
    Hey Karen,

    I used to work with Motor Week and I have a serious love for Ferrari's.

    It's fun to be an owner of an RSX as I call it my "mini" Ferrari.

    I didn't expect to get into this car but needed something a little better then my 89' plymouth colt with 163k miles on it.

    A friend of a friend owns a dealership where they had this 2002 dark blue RSX with 20k miles on it...Great Car..he gave me a sweet deal, and I drove the car home that night (leaving behind the rental I was using to get around in while my colt was being salvaged).

    I took it to Santa Monica Acura and they replaced the front breaks and the dealership I bought it from bought me new RSX floor mates and some minor plastic parts that were missing.

    My Dark Blue 2002 RSX has leather, 5-spd Auto and still has it's stock stereo system which I hope to replace someday. it has some minor scratches at the rear of the car..but it's a pretty sweet car. I paid $14,995 before taxes and got a 3 year bumper to bumper. It's currently still under the manufacturers warranty with roadside assistance which makes me kinda happy. Other than the occasional speeding and extended night drives I take through the canyons and by the beach I've been babying the car and get stressed when it comes to leaving her outside all alone.
This discussion has been closed.