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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)
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Comments
As far as Hyundai, not sure about your comment "how a Hyundai got put into the top of the conversation" :confuse: , but the Elantra is a solid entry in this class, and in the minds of some professional reviewiers leads the class. IMO it has class-leading interior room and comfort, a high-quality interior that is far above what Cobalt offers (not just my opinion, read the reviews), safety features including standard ESC on the SE (optional on Cobalt), six standard airbags (Cobalt offers just 4), and standard ABS (optional on Cobalt and hard to get from what I've read on the 5MT). It also has a very quiet, smooth ride for the class, a smooth powertrain (although not as high-powered as the Cobalt's), excellent braking (4-wheel discs with ABS standard), and good handling especially on the SE. Add to that the class-leading (shared with Spectra and Lancer) warranty and good reliability, the Elantra is one of the top choices in this class IMO and significantly ahead of the Cobalt in most areas.
Also I just looked up this LFE thing and it's only for 5 speed manuals on bottom 2 trims. That's pretty disappointing. They should have engineered it for all cars using the same engines including the automatics. GM had better do more for the next model year. Looks like it's perfect for you though shipo.
I don't think I've ever stated that I was looking for comfort and quietness in any car I've every bought, and with regard to cars in this size range, I despise a soft comfy ride. While I agree that the Cobalt has better seats than many in this class, the Rabbit seats fit my body far more comfortably than the Cobalt.
Regarding the Hyundai and it's warranty, since the Elantra was crossed off my list before I even started shopping in this segment, the warranty is kind of moot. In fact, given that I turned a pretty fair wrench in a former life, I personally could care less about a warranty, so much so that if they were to offer me more off the price of the car if they shortened the warranty to a 12/12 version, I'd take it.
Best Regards,
Shipo
On the Cobalt XFE, the big difference between the 5MT and 4AT on fuel economy is interesting. That is pretty rare these days. It's more common for the MT and AT numbers to be pretty close, or even for the AT to get slightly better EPA FE numbers than the MT. I wonder what Chevy did to the MT coupe to allow it to achieve those really high FE numbers--much higher than the AT? Or maybe the AT on the Cobalt is just inefficient?
My understanding is the the XFE is only available in manual transmission. (if there is an automatic, it gets the same mileage as the original Cobalt automatic) The main changes were low-rolling resistance tires and tweaking with gear ratios and engine computer settings.
(the following is only my conjecture)
I think the reason it was only done to the manual, and not the automatic, is because that way they could get bragging rights to "class leading." Now the Cobalt's highway mileage exceeds that of all 2008 "coupe's with manual transmissions."
This is a very very clever gimmick. The mileage with the automatic was never good (only 31), so it would hard to beat the Civic auto with 36. The civic manual only gets 34, whereas the original cobalt got 33. Tweak the manual, it's much easier to beat Honda (1 MPG vs 5 MPG to rise). However, you need 36 to beat the Ford Focus at 35. Still, it's easier to go 3 MPG than 5, and if you miss, you still beat Civic.
The "coupe" qualification conveniently eliminates the Toyota Corolla and Yaris from the category, which get 37 and 36 MPG highway already.
Voila, by tweaking the manual version of the Cobalt, Chevy has a "class leading" vehicle in fuel economy.
And it worked... for me at least. It intrigued me enough to stop in at my local Chevy dealer today and take one of those coupes for a test drive. But as I waited around on the showfloor for someone to help me, I poured over the Cobalt LT sedan sitting there. As I looked it over and sat in it, front and back, and touched/felt everything, I suddenly thought to myself: "Nah.....", and left. Even if the FE was excellent, I didn't think it would be a car I could live with for the 10-12 years I plan to have it in my family. The really tight rear seat of the coupe (sedan isn't great, either) was the biggest issue, but the bottom line was I already have at least 3 other cars in my sights that I like a whole lot better than the Cobalt, and would not cost any more than the Cobalt comparably equipped.
And none of those reasons apply to my thinking as it's kinda clear in my regard what cars I find to be better. I'd also like to note that even in my friend's Civic coupe, I had zero problems with legroom in the back seat. And neither did some of my larger friends. So this is a YMMV issue. Not an issue for me.
My oldest likes my Civic much better than her mom's 3s but prefers the Elantra to anything else. No matter what I try to tell her, she's got her mind made up and will probably end up with one. I'd prefer her to look elsewhere, but she's quite happy with the choice for now...so I've let it go for now. All good choices never the less.
Still very intrigued about the new Civic LX-S model.
The Sandman
If you don't like to read my opinions, Page Down works pretty well.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Really? First time I am hearing this. There are many cars in this class that trump the Cobalt in terms of ride, comfort, and quietness. It is a nice average car, but certainly not the leader.
I don't see how a Hyundai got put into the top of the conversation because its not quite there for that status.
Again, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. In my opinion, Elantra may not be the strongest (overall) in the class, but it does the job in most areas damn well - several areas very well (i.e. braking, ride, features, comfort, quality, space, NVH). CR didn't put the Elantra SE at the top of the billing just for fun. Let me put it this way, even without the warranty, I would have placed the Elantra above the Cobalt. The Elantra is just an excellent automobile, while the Cobalt is, hate to be blunt, just average.
Cobalt LT: Highs - turning circle | Lows: Engine noise, fuel economy, driving position, seating comfort, fit and finish
That was just the summary, more issues within the detailed review.
Of course, CR ranked the Cobalt in the bottom two among the compact sedans, ahead of only the Suzuki Forenza.
The Sandman
Best Regards,
Shipo
I agree there may be other cars in the compact class that rank higher than the Cobalt but I don't see a Hyundai leading anything especially that crummy warranty in which Hyundai is counting on people to get rid of their cars to void the powertrain warranty. Yes, this is a cleaver marketing ploy by this Korean company knowing that Americans though keeping their cars longer still generally get rid of them after 5-years thus voiding the warranty.
I posted the CR excerpt because they rated the Cobalt a lot lower that I would have. I was just surprised...FWIW, I have my own road experience in both the Cobalt and the Elantra to conclude the winner of the two. I never once said the Cobalt was a bad car, but rather just an average automobile.
As far as the statement Hyundai doesn't lead in anything - shows me you haven't driven one at all, espeically its recent portfolio.
Personal preference. I have no horse in this race, that said, I've driven both, and based upon my yardstick, the Cobalt is greater than the Elantra. The Hyundai is just way too isolated and squishy for my tastes. I could be wrong, but configured as like for like as possible, I'd place my bet on the Cobalt if the two were racing around a tight road course.
So, while you value a quiet and cushy ride I value responsiveness and feel. Who's right? We both are, the Elantra for you, and were it not for the Rabbit (which drives like it's in a class by itself compared to the rest of the cars in this group), I'd be looking at either the M3 or the Cobalt.
Best Regards,
Shipo
That said, I still much disagree with the statement made by the other poster 1) Cobalt is the leader in _____, when it clearly is not. 2) Hyundai has nothing except the warranty, when it clearly is not true.
So you think CR is a Pro reviewer. Boy are you lost big time. No I don't follow Edmunds either and they are not a Pro reviewer. They seem to be biased and I have seen it in their reviews. You have to go to car related magazines like Car & Drivers, Motor Trend, etc.
All car reviews are biased, because they are done by humans. There is also an editorial bias to consider, e.g. the organization's point of view in their car preferences. The trick is knowing what the editorial bias is. For example, C/D's is well known to have a clear bias towards crisp-handling cars, above any other consideration. So they down-rate cars like the Corolla and Elantra that do not have on-rails handling, and prefer cars like the Mazda3, Rabbit, and Civic that have sharper handling.
Note however that, on this topic, the regular Cobalt rated so low to C/D and MT that they have not included it in their comparos of small sedans for some time.
The Focus used to have what was generally consdered (and I agreed) one of the best if not the best blends of ride and handling in this class. Unfortunately, I have read that this balance has been compromised for 2008. I haven't driven the 2008 Focus yet though to see what that means for myself.
For my needs, wants and desires, the Rabbit ranks as follows (categories ranked in order of importance to me):
- Drivability (i.e. handling, braking, acceleration, and road feel): Gold standard of the group
- Utility (i.e. passenger and storage space): One of the best (if not the very best) of the group
- Fuel economy: One of the worst (if not the very worst) in the group
If I go for driving enjoyment, the Rabbit will win hands down, however, if I opt for fuel economy (due to the contract that I'm bidding on), then the Cobalt and the Civic would be my top two candidates.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Backy's a reasonable character, and tends to produce pretty darn objective posts around here. He's pushing the Elantra for the same reason you push the Cobalt; you feel it is really worth a look, and you want readers to take it into consideration.
I'm an avid reader of this thread, and all I really see are two different opinions that should agree to disagree. I have an opinion on the Cobalt and on the Elantra (and I'm not sure either of you would agree with them!), so I won't bring it up right now.
Agreed on the Civic but Cobalt? Based on my drives in the Cobalt (note I haven't driven the XFE trim yet), the fuel economy - borderline disappointing for a compact sedan.
The reviews I read on the Cobalt mirrors my observations also.
That said, if I do end up with a contract that has me on the road for 50,000+ miles per year, I'm going to have to find a car that makes financial sense and at least somewhat caters to my opposing needs for both drivability and utility, and right now, the Cobalt seems to be the best balance of those criteria.
If I take the economy angle out of the picture, then the Rabbit and to a lesser degree the M3 5-Door have it in spades over the rest of the cars in this class.
FWIW, I like the Civic, however, Honda chose to gear the 5-Speed so that the engine sounds a bit busy at highway speeds, and while that doesn't bother me too much, it does hurt the car from a fuel economy perspective. That and the 8th generation Civic seems to be plagued with way too many problems (engine block failures, air conditioning issues and rear suspensions causing tires to prematurely age among them), something that I'll admit is uncharacteristic for Honda, but there it is.
I used to like the Focus until Ford eviscerated the suspension to make it more compliant for American drivers.
I cannot get past the looks of the Yaris, Fit and Sentra to even give those three a go, and we all know how I like the Elantra, so it's ruled out too.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have never heard of an engine block problem, or an A/C problem, though.
After driving the Sentra with the CVT, I think anyone looking in this segment should check it out. It's an outstanding driver even with it's quirky looks. Shipo should really put it on his short list. I used to own an '03 Sentra and wasn't real happy with it towards the end there, but the '08 has changed my mind.
My oldest has here mind set on the Elantra and won't look at anything else no matter how hard I push to check out all the competition. So we'll probably have one in the fold.
Just got my new Dell computer...need to set it up. See y'all later!
The Sandman
I suppose if I was inclined to drive a car with an automatic transmission, I might be willing to look at it, however, I am a self-professed manual transmission bigot. Period, full stop, the end. From my perspective, unless there are three pedals under the dash, I ain't buyin' it, and that means no CVTs, no SMGs, no DSGs, no sequential shifters, and certainly no slushboxes.
Right, wrong, or stupid, I belong to the crowd whose motto is "They're gonna have to pry the stick shift from my cold dead hand." :shades:
Best Regards,
Shipo
The Ecotec's are arguably the best engine in its class and its racing history has proven its durability because it is the one to beat and frequently on top. The Guiness book of World Records will attest to the Cobalts achievements and those who follow racing no what's happening with small cars.
I would rather have the Saturn Astra, but the Cobalt overall has to be one of the top on my list because its a solid all around car.
How is this different than the frequent (and that is a kind word) positive comments you make about the Civic and Mazda3, which you happen to own? I guess I could complain about that--that you "push" too much about those, and consider any negative comment about them to be a personal attack. But that would be rude and off-topic. And also it's none of my business which cars you happen to love because they fit your needs better than others.
Hope you continue to get much enjoyment out of your Civic and Mazda3--and your Dell computer.
CR posted an observed overall mpg of 24 for the Cobalt in its latest comparo, which was at the tail end of the compact class group.
Would you like more?
I understand that more doesn't equal better, and there are certain intangibles about smaller, lightweight, tossable cars (ask Colin Chapman) but given that they are just smaller and not lighter or more tossable, what is the argument against it?
A German magazine recently did a 135k mile comparison test of the Opel Astra and Volkwagen Golf. Neither had any problems in the first 100k mile, but I think the Astra had a minor breakdown at 115k miles or so. As good Germans, they thoroughly tested and disassembled the cars at the end and found both to show very little wear (good for another 100k miles, they said). In fact, both had more HP than they started with!
With regards to crash testing, the Astra has had no USA crash tests, but it was tested in the European NCAP tests, which are just as rigorous. It received 5/5 stars for adult crash protection and 4/5 stars for child safety, and was highly praised for its safety. The detailed test is available here.
The resale value is rather uncertain at the moment. On the one hand, it's not been selling particularly fast. On the other hand, the next generation will be built in Mexico, rather than Belgium, which might make this generation more desirable.
Anyway, hope that helps!
Or, Astro?
All in good fun. Good luck with Astra shopping!