Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

11819212324

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I've read several reviews of the Cobalt and I've driven some as rentals. I think the ride smoothness is its greatest asset. Is it as quiet as others it its class, e.g. Corolla, Elantra, and Rabbit? It's OK, but I would not put it above those cars in quietness. As for the seats, the reviews I've read--and I must agree with them based on my experience--put the seats as a weak point of the car, except for the top-trim model with sport seats. Those were strongly praised as nearly Recaro-like. But for the "normal" Cobalts, I personally didn't find the driver's seat more comfortable than several others in this class, e.g. Civic, Elantra, Mazda3, Rabbit, and Sentra. And the back seat, even in the sedan, is near the bottom of the class, both in room and comfort. That is excusable on the coupe, since there can be some sacrifice for styling, but not in a 4-door sedan in this class IMO.

    As far as Hyundai, not sure about your comment "how a Hyundai got put into the top of the conversation" :confuse: , but the Elantra is a solid entry in this class, and in the minds of some professional reviewiers leads the class. IMO it has class-leading interior room and comfort, a high-quality interior that is far above what Cobalt offers (not just my opinion, read the reviews), safety features including standard ESC on the SE (optional on Cobalt), six standard airbags (Cobalt offers just 4), and standard ABS (optional on Cobalt and hard to get from what I've read on the 5MT). It also has a very quiet, smooth ride for the class, a smooth powertrain (although not as high-powered as the Cobalt's), excellent braking (4-wheel discs with ABS standard), and good handling especially on the SE. Add to that the class-leading (shared with Spectra and Lancer) warranty and good reliability, the Elantra is one of the top choices in this class IMO and significantly ahead of the Cobalt in most areas.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Personally I'd lump cobalt and elantra both down, although I'd put cobalt lower. I'd definitely prefer the Civic or Mazda3 in this category.
    Also I just looked up this LFE thing and it's only for 5 speed manuals on bottom 2 trims. That's pretty disappointing. They should have engineered it for all cars using the same engines including the automatics. GM had better do more for the next model year. Looks like it's perfect for you though shipo.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "If you want ride, comfort, and quietness then the Cobalt leads the compact class in those regards."

    I don't think I've ever stated that I was looking for comfort and quietness in any car I've every bought, and with regard to cars in this size range, I despise a soft comfy ride. While I agree that the Cobalt has better seats than many in this class, the Rabbit seats fit my body far more comfortably than the Cobalt.

    Regarding the Hyundai and it's warranty, since the Elantra was crossed off my list before I even started shopping in this segment, the warranty is kind of moot. In fact, given that I turned a pretty fair wrench in a former life, I personally could care less about a warranty, so much so that if they were to offer me more off the price of the car if they shortened the warranty to a 12/12 version, I'd take it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree the Civic and Mazda3 are excellent small cars. It all depends on what you are looking for in a car. One of my main requiremetns in my next car is ESC. I can't get that on the Civic today (except the Si, which is way more car than I want my daughter driving at a young age) or the Mazda3i. So that one requirement knocks both cars way, way down on my list. Also, I like a roomy back seat because two of my kids are tall teenaged boys, who have like-sized friends. The idea of being able to take a small car on a long road trip (e.g. MN to TX) if I want to is appealing. That would never work with the Civic or Mazda3--rear seat is pretty tight, and I'd never put someone back there for 600 miles a day. I'm also looking for a quality new car at the lowest possible acquisition cost, which puts the Civic at a disadvantage since they are high priced for the class to begin with and there are no rebates. The Mazda3i is more reasonably priced, but still significantly more expensive than a car like the Elantra SE, after deducting rebates (currently $1500-2000) and discounts. And one more thing I need is a smooth-riding car, because the roads in my area (Twin Cities) are pretty bad, with lots of potholes and patches. So a car like the Cobalt, Corolla, Elantra, Impreza, or Sentra has an advantage over the Civic and Mazda3 there.

    On the Cobalt XFE, the big difference between the 5MT and 4AT on fuel economy is interesting. That is pretty rare these days. It's more common for the MT and AT numbers to be pretty close, or even for the AT to get slightly better EPA FE numbers than the MT. I wonder what Chevy did to the MT coupe to allow it to achieve those really high FE numbers--much higher than the AT? Or maybe the AT on the Cobalt is just inefficient?
  • no_oneno_one Member Posts: 29
    On the Cobalt XFE, the big difference between the 5MT and 4AT on fuel economy is interesting. That is pretty rare these days. It's more common for the MT and AT numbers to be pretty close, or even for the AT to get slightly better EPA FE numbers than the MT. I wonder what Chevy did to the MT coupe to allow it to achieve those really high FE numbers--much higher than the AT? Or maybe the AT on the Cobalt is just inefficient?

    My understanding is the the XFE is only available in manual transmission. (if there is an automatic, it gets the same mileage as the original Cobalt automatic) The main changes were low-rolling resistance tires and tweaking with gear ratios and engine computer settings.

    (the following is only my conjecture)
    I think the reason it was only done to the manual, and not the automatic, is because that way they could get bragging rights to "class leading." Now the Cobalt's highway mileage exceeds that of all 2008 "coupe's with manual transmissions."

    This is a very very clever gimmick. The mileage with the automatic was never good (only 31), so it would hard to beat the Civic auto with 36. The civic manual only gets 34, whereas the original cobalt got 33. Tweak the manual, it's much easier to beat Honda (1 MPG vs 5 MPG to rise). However, you need 36 to beat the Ford Focus at 35. Still, it's easier to go 3 MPG than 5, and if you miss, you still beat Civic.

    The "coupe" qualification conveniently eliminates the Toyota Corolla and Yaris from the category, which get 37 and 36 MPG highway already.

    Voila, by tweaking the manual version of the Cobalt, Chevy has a "class leading" vehicle in fuel economy.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Good analysis. I think someone in Chevy marketing earned his/her bonus for that one. :)

    And it worked... for me at least. It intrigued me enough to stop in at my local Chevy dealer today and take one of those coupes for a test drive. But as I waited around on the showfloor for someone to help me, I poured over the Cobalt LT sedan sitting there. As I looked it over and sat in it, front and back, and touched/felt everything, I suddenly thought to myself: "Nah.....", and left. Even if the FE was excellent, I didn't think it would be a car I could live with for the 10-12 years I plan to have it in my family. The really tight rear seat of the coupe (sedan isn't great, either) was the biggest issue, but the bottom line was I already have at least 3 other cars in my sights that I like a whole lot better than the Cobalt, and would not cost any more than the Cobalt comparably equipped.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    I think I've seen your argument about 10 times now backy :P
    And none of those reasons apply to my thinking as it's kinda clear in my regard what cars I find to be better. I'd also like to note that even in my friend's Civic coupe, I had zero problems with legroom in the back seat. And neither did some of my larger friends. So this is a YMMV issue. Not an issue for me.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    It's quite obvious that some of us in Edmunds have our favorite cars and car makers and we could keep going round and round on this subject. We all have our own likes and dislikes about certain models and our minds won't be changed. It's a good thing since we can give others who are looking for new cars the benefit of our opinions since ownership is the best way to give advice on how these cars function on a daily basis.
    My oldest likes my Civic much better than her mom's 3s but prefers the Elantra to anything else. No matter :) what I try to tell her, she's got her mind made up and will probably end up with one. I'd prefer her to look elsewhere, but she's quite happy with the choice for now...so I've let it go for now. All good choices never the less.
    Still very intrigued about the new Civic LX-S model.

    The Sandman
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Different people have different opinons on cars. And different sized bodies.

    If you don't like to read my opinions, Page Down works pretty well. :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    pardon me for asking, but what in hell's bells is a YMMV issue? Something I should know about?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Your Mileage May Vary. Another way of saying (I think) "try before you buy." Which I agree with 100%.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    the acronym party is obviously not just a Boeing Co. thing. When I worked for Boeing many co-workers got really tired of all of the Boeing acronyms. They really loaded you up there with acronyms, I guess for them to save some time. I also agree with the "try before you buy" idea.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    If you want ride, comfort, and quietness then the Cobalt leads the compact class in those regards.

    Really? First time I am hearing this. There are many cars in this class that trump the Cobalt in terms of ride, comfort, and quietness. It is a nice average car, but certainly not the leader.

    I don't see how a Hyundai got put into the top of the conversation because its not quite there for that status.

    Again, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. In my opinion, Elantra may not be the strongest (overall) in the class, but it does the job in most areas damn well - several areas very well (i.e. braking, ride, features, comfort, quality, space, NVH). CR didn't put the Elantra SE at the top of the billing just for fun. Let me put it this way, even without the warranty, I would have placed the Elantra above the Cobalt. The Elantra is just an excellent automobile, while the Cobalt is, hate to be blunt, just average.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Oh man, I thought I was critical, look at this from the July's CR:

    Cobalt LT: Highs - turning circle | Lows: Engine noise, fuel economy, driving position, seating comfort, fit and finish

    That was just the summary, more issues within the detailed review.

    Of course, CR ranked the Cobalt in the bottom two among the compact sedans, ahead of only the Suzuki Forenza.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Drove this today and all I can say is "outstanding"! Very impressive drive, felt as powerful as our 3s and more compliant over road imperfections. Nissan nailed it on this car guys...absolutely!

    The Sandman :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I have to disagree with you on this one, because to my mind at least, "CVT" and "Outstanding" are two mutually exclusive terms. One of the great benefits of the cars in this class is that they are almost universally available with three pedals under the dash. So, IMHO, the inclusion of a manual transmission is one giant leap toward "outstanding", and without it, the appellation cannot apply. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Sentra comes standard with a six-speed manual. Not many cars in this class have that. (Versa has that, too.) I've driven the Sentra with the 6MT and thought it was a good ride, kind of "French" in its ride quality (not surprising given Nissan's ties to Renault), but for my needs not worth a price premium over some others in the class. Also I'm not fond of the Sentra's exterior. I could live with it. But I'd rather not. ;)
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Joe97, if you are still following and believing in a rag like CR than you have a lot to learn about autos. Consumer Reports is not a legitimate magazine for autos mostly because of their subscription member only evaluations. Remember their big apology last year? This company came on TV after again having what little reputation they have (mostly appliances) damaged. Some company that CR paid to evaluate 11 child safety seats gave all but two bad ratings. Turns out all most all were acceptable and it was a flawed test. This is a company you believe in and follow? I have some stock I'd like to sell you.

    I agree there may be other cars in the compact class that rank higher than the Cobalt but I don't see a Hyundai leading anything especially that crummy warranty in which Hyundai is counting on people to get rid of their cars to void the powertrain warranty. Yes, this is a cleaver marketing ploy by this Korean company knowing that Americans though keeping their cars longer still generally get rid of them after 5-years thus voiding the warranty.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Only the 100,000/10 year part is eliminated with an "outside the family" 2nd owner. The remainder of the 5 year...60,000 mile new car warranty remains in effect i.e. the remaining mileage up to 60K and the remaining time in years up to 5. This, by the way, can be more than the "crummy" new car warranty given by...say...Honda which is 3 years and still "only" 36K miles. I have a 2006 Civic and the way things have been going with this car I dread to see the 3 yr. new car warranty come to a close this fall. And yes compared to this Civic the new (2008) Elantra leads in quite a few areas not the least of which is quality (Honda has... gee, I have lost count of the number of "service bulletins that apply to this generation Civics). Honda? not in my book.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Since you don't respect CR, have you looked at what other pro reviewers e.g. Edmunds.com have to say about the Cobalt?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, a few years ago Hyundai dropped the clause that allows you to transfer ownership within the immediate family and keep the part of the powertrain warranty after 5 years/60k miles. Since there's a very easy way to get around that (i.e. the original owner in the family retains ownership of the car until the warranty is used up), not a big deal. Because I am in the mode for several years of buying cars, driving them for a few years, then handing them down to my kids for late high school and college, keeping the cars in the family for at least 10 years but not putting more than 10k miles a year on them, the 10/100k powertrain warranty from Hyundai/Kia (and Mitsubishi) is a big plus for me, compared to cars with lesser warranties in length and/or miles.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Then let me put it for you in more clearer terms, CR or not, Elantra > Cobalt, without any hesitation. Do not even try to convince the Cobalt is a leader in terms of ride, comfort and quiteness. It's not.

    I posted the CR excerpt because they rated the Cobalt a lot lower that I would have. I was just surprised...FWIW, I have my own road experience in both the Cobalt and the Elantra to conclude the winner of the two. I never once said the Cobalt was a bad car, but rather just an average automobile.

    As far as the statement Hyundai doesn't lead in anything - shows me you haven't driven one at all, espeically its recent portfolio.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Then let me put it for you in more clearer terms, CR or not, Elantra > Cobalt, without any hesitation. Do not even try to convince the Cobalt is a leader in terms of ride, comfort and quietness. It's not."

    Personal preference. I have no horse in this race, that said, I've driven both, and based upon my yardstick, the Cobalt is greater than the Elantra. The Hyundai is just way too isolated and squishy for my tastes. I could be wrong, but configured as like for like as possible, I'd place my bet on the Cobalt if the two were racing around a tight road course.

    So, while you value a quiet and cushy ride I value responsiveness and feel. Who's right? We both are, the Elantra for you, and were it not for the Rabbit (which drives like it's in a class by itself compared to the rest of the cars in this group), I'd be looking at either the M3 or the Cobalt.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Agreed and that's perfectly fine. Everyone's different :)

    That said, I still much disagree with the statement made by the other poster 1) Cobalt is the leader in _____, when it clearly is not. 2) Hyundai has nothing except the warranty, when it clearly is not true.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Since you don't respect CR, have you looked at what other pro reviewers e.g. Edmunds.com have to say about the Cobalt?"

    So you think CR is a Pro reviewer. Boy are you lost big time. No I don't follow Edmunds either and they are not a Pro reviewer. They seem to be biased and I have seen it in their reviews. You have to go to car related magazines like Car & Drivers, Motor Trend, etc.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, CR and Edmunds are "pro" auto reviewers. Their staff reviews cars as part of their paid jobs, that makes them "pros" whether you agree with their findings or not.

    All car reviews are biased, because they are done by humans. There is also an editorial bias to consider, e.g. the organization's point of view in their car preferences. The trick is knowing what the editorial bias is. For example, C/D's is well known to have a clear bias towards crisp-handling cars, above any other consideration. So they down-rate cars like the Corolla and Elantra that do not have on-rails handling, and prefer cars like the Mazda3, Rabbit, and Civic that have sharper handling.

    Note however that, on this topic, the regular Cobalt rated so low to C/D and MT that they have not included it in their comparos of small sedans for some time.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you driven the Elantra SE, 2007+? I would not say it has a "squishy" ride at all, although it is more isolated and softer than cars like the Mazda3. But I think the SE has a very practical blend of safe, secure handling and ride comfort. Not to everyone's tastes of course.

    The Focus used to have what was generally consdered (and I agreed) one of the best if not the best blends of ride and handling in this class. Unfortunately, I have read that this balance has been compromised for 2008. I haven't driven the 2008 Focus yet though to see what that means for myself.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Why do you keep pushing the Elantra? I mean, I know that you like it, but come on, it seems that you have more than an unusual agenda to "dis" every other car in this class and put the Elantra up on a pedestal. Personally I find the Mazda3 to be too soft and squishy, and if by your own admission the Elantra is softer and squishier, then why would I even bother driving the SE? Then there's the Elantra's anemic engine which delivers up one of the worst power to weight ratios of any car in this class.

    For my needs, wants and desires, the Rabbit ranks as follows (categories ranked in order of importance to me):
    - Drivability (i.e. handling, braking, acceleration, and road feel): Gold standard of the group
    - Utility (i.e. passenger and storage space): One of the best (if not the very best) of the group
    - Fuel economy: One of the worst (if not the very worst) in the group

    If I go for driving enjoyment, the Rabbit will win hands down, however, if I opt for fuel economy (due to the contract that I'm bidding on), then the Cobalt and the Civic would be my top two candidates.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • mizzoumazdamizzoumazda Member Posts: 17
    I agree with you about Consumer Reports in terms of those Reliability surveys for both cars and other products. They are the result of surveys in which the respondents are self-selected--which is the most unscientific survey method in the book. However, CR's actual car reviews are true reviews and are done rigorously, on cars CR goes out and buys and without fear of offending advertisers. The reviews I find pretty trustworthy and valuable.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Honestly, I don't see backy "dissing" any cars; he's expressed his distaste for the Cobalt, but I think that is certainly in-bounds of what is allowed here, as the points are backed by reasoning. His reasoning may not match yours (or mine), but it doesn't have to do so.

    Backy's a reasonable character, and tends to produce pretty darn objective posts around here. He's pushing the Elantra for the same reason you push the Cobalt; you feel it is really worth a look, and you want readers to take it into consideration.

    I'm an avid reader of this thread, and all I really see are two different opinions that should agree to disagree. I have an opinion on the Cobalt and on the Elantra (and I'm not sure either of you would agree with them!), so I won't bring it up right now. :)
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    if I opt for fuel economy (due to the contract that I'm bidding on), then the Cobalt and the Civic would be my top two candidates.

    Agreed on the Civic but Cobalt? Based on my drives in the Cobalt (note I haven't driven the XFE trim yet), the fuel economy - borderline disappointing for a compact sedan.

    The reviews I read on the Cobalt mirrors my observations also.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    If any post of mine can be construed as "pushing" the Cobalt, then please accept my humble apology, that is not now, nor has it ever been my intent. Sure, I'm more than happy to compare it on a one-to-one basis with any other car, but to promote it above all others, no, not even remotely my intent.

    That said, if I do end up with a contract that has me on the road for 50,000+ miles per year, I'm going to have to find a car that makes financial sense and at least somewhat caters to my opposing needs for both drivability and utility, and right now, the Cobalt seems to be the best balance of those criteria.

    If I take the economy angle out of the picture, then the Rabbit and to a lesser degree the M3 5-Door have it in spades over the rest of the cars in this class.

    FWIW, I like the Civic, however, Honda chose to gear the 5-Speed so that the engine sounds a bit busy at highway speeds, and while that doesn't bother me too much, it does hurt the car from a fuel economy perspective. That and the 8th generation Civic seems to be plagued with way too many problems (engine block failures, air conditioning issues and rear suspensions causing tires to prematurely age among them), something that I'll admit is uncharacteristic for Honda, but there it is.

    I used to like the Focus until Ford eviscerated the suspension to make it more compliant for American drivers.

    I cannot get past the looks of the Yaris, Fit and Sentra to even give those three a go, and we all know how I like the Elantra, so it's ruled out too.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The XFE models are the only ones that I'd consider for that application. That said, if real world reports start coming in that suggest that the XFE is no better from a fuel economy perspective than the previous version of the LS and LT1, then I'll be looking at other alternatives for sure.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    My folks actually have a 2007 Civic which had the suspension problem, and yes, their tires were worn by 30k, and Honda won't pay part of the replacement cost. The car has since been fixed. The car now has 47k miles on it (yes, it IS an 07 with that many miles ;)). They really like the car, and almost bought a second one, but are now going with a much nicer '08 Ford Taurus, for similar money. Should make a better highway car than the Civic.

    I have never heard of an engine block problem, or an A/C problem, though.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Have to agree with Shipo here about Backy and his "Hyundainess"...he does push it a little to much. I decided long ago just to read his posts and respond as little as possible because of that single minded "Hyundainess" and how nothing else compares.
    After driving the Sentra with the CVT, I think anyone looking in this segment should check it out. It's an outstanding driver even with it's quirky looks. Shipo should really put it on his short list. I used to own an '03 Sentra and wasn't real happy with it towards the end there, but the '08 has changed my mind.
    My oldest has here mind set on the Elantra and won't look at anything else no matter how hard I push to check out all the competition. So we'll probably have one in the fold.
    Just got my new Dell computer...need to set it up. See y'all later!

    The Sandman :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "After driving the Sentra with the CVT, I think anyone looking in this segment should check it out. It's an outstanding driver even with it's quirky looks. Shipo should really put it on his short list."

    I suppose if I was inclined to drive a car with an automatic transmission, I might be willing to look at it, however, I am a self-professed manual transmission bigot. Period, full stop, the end. From my perspective, unless there are three pedals under the dash, I ain't buyin' it, and that means no CVTs, no SMGs, no DSGs, no sequential shifters, and certainly no slushboxes.

    Right, wrong, or stupid, I belong to the crowd whose motto is "They're gonna have to pry the stick shift from my cold dead hand." :shades:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I don't recall reading a car review were the Cobalt had disappointing mileage other than from an occasional forum poster. If you look here on Edmunds you will find Cobalt owners meeting or exceeding the posted mpg. So, from what I understand from reading this forum and others the Cobalt is very fuel efficient. Taking the XFE out of the picture a lot of people are getting the mileage figures or better for this car. Going back a couple years I still recall the July 2006 edition of Car & Driver where the Cobalt edged out the Corolla 28.02 mpg overall compared to Corolla's 28.04.

    The Ecotec's are arguably the best engine in its class and its racing history has proven its durability because it is the one to beat and frequently on top. The Guiness book of World Records will attest to the Cobalts achievements and those who follow racing no what's happening with small cars.

    I would rather have the Saturn Astra, but the Cobalt overall has to be one of the top on my list because its a solid all around car.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What I see you saying is that you object to my talking positively about a brand, and a car, that I've had a very good ownership experience with over the past 8 years, and also that I talk positively about a car that I have determined through much research to be my #1 choice for my next car? Even though I routinely make positive comments about other cars, not only in this discussion but many others?

    How is this different than the frequent (and that is a kind word) positive comments you make about the Civic and Mazda3, which you happen to own? I guess I could complain about that--that you "push" too much about those, and consider any negative comment about them to be a personal attack. But that would be rude and off-topic. And also it's none of my business which cars you happen to love because they fit your needs better than others.

    Hope you continue to get much enjoyment out of your Civic and Mazda3--and your Dell computer.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Edmunds 2005 compact sedans test - the Cobalt finished around 22.5 MPG - it was just the middle of the pack (among those participated the test) in terms of fuel efficiency.

    CR posted an observed overall mpg of 24 for the Cobalt in its latest comparo, which was at the tail end of the compact class group.

    Would you like more?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The thing I don't get is my '07 Accord was in that price range (sub-20k), gets mileage in the 30s (my mostly highway commute in spring/summer/fall is about 34 mpg), and really isn't much heavier than the compact cars.
    I understand that more doesn't equal better, and there are certain intangibles about smaller, lightweight, tossable cars (ask Colin Chapman) but given that they are just smaller and not lighter or more tossable, what is the argument against it?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sub-$20k gets you a loaded-to-the-gills compact that can get close to if not above 40 mpg on a "mostly highway commute." A sub-$20k Accord would be, today, a basic LX. If you need the interior room but also good fuel economy, there are less expensive options than the Accord. Some people want the size, others want more feature content and/or fuel economy. And some people want 260 hp drag racers. What a wonderful world of choices in the $16-20k (or just over) range!
  • zippy8zippy8 Member Posts: 1
    I am about to buy a Civic, but after test driving the Astro I'm thinking of getting the Astro. Primarily like the feel and handling of the Astro better. My overall concern is lack of safety test ratings, maintenance track record, and reliability, to compare the cost of owning the Astro over 5 years, vs the civic. The civics are flying off the lots, making the prices premium, but I've always owned Hondas because they are always on the road and not in the shops. I'm not a car geek, and tried to do as much research as I could. Any comments on ease and cost of repairs, or known problems.
  • no_oneno_one Member Posts: 29
    The only common repair that people have had is to replace the gas tank cap. In some vehicles, it is seated improperly and will trigger the check engine light. However, this version of the Astra has been on the road in Europe for four years now, and has had above average reliability. There were a few problems in the early Opel/Vauxhall models, but these problems have long since been rectified, and most related to the diesel variant.

    A German magazine recently did a 135k mile comparison test of the Opel Astra and Volkwagen Golf. Neither had any problems in the first 100k mile, but I think the Astra had a minor breakdown at 115k miles or so. As good Germans, they thoroughly tested and disassembled the cars at the end and found both to show very little wear (good for another 100k miles, they said). In fact, both had more HP than they started with!

    With regards to crash testing, the Astra has had no USA crash tests, but it was tested in the European NCAP tests, which are just as rigorous. It received 5/5 stars for adult crash protection and 4/5 stars for child safety, and was highly praised for its safety. The detailed test is available here.

    The resale value is rather uncertain at the moment. On the one hand, it's not been selling particularly fast. On the other hand, the next generation will be built in Mexico, rather than Belgium, which might make this generation more desirable.

    Anyway, hope that helps!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Just make sure that when talking to the dealer, that you call it an "Astra" and not an "Astro." A dealer is less likely to screw with someone that appears to be a better-educated shopper.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    ;)

    image
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    image

    Or, Astro? ;)

    All in good fun. Good luck with Astra shopping!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hopefully no one will be upset by an implication that the Astro/Astra is a dog. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I've been in an Astro Van, and trust me, it IS a dog. The Saturn Astra hatchback on the other hand, may not be (never seen one!).

    ;)
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Joe, as I said before look at the Edmunds drivers forum and see what those who own the car get. The majority of them meet or exceed the sticker.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    A Chevy Astro is not even close to being a dog performance wise. How many mini vans do you know of that can do burn outs or tow 5000 lbs?
This discussion has been closed.