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  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Zippy, the Astra is the second biggest seller in Europe.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    To me, the Astro and Aerostar vans were never minivans, but rather smaller cousins to the 15-passenger big-boys. In my world, there's more to performance than doing a burn out. A Mazda 3 won't do a burn-out, but is an excellent performer.

    (A segue to getting us back on topic ;)).
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Considering the good european reviews of the Astra, I'd consider it a good choice if you like it. Since they're made in the european factory, they should be almost as good as the real thing(accounting for the switchovers for american needs).
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    The Astro was considered a mid-size van and a good performer in load and towing capacity besides the burnouts
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But today, in June of 2008, its a dog.

    Again, back to the topic?

    Question: why would Chevrolet limit the XFE Cobalt to just coupes?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Question: why would Chevrolet limit the XFE Cobalt to just coupes?"

    They are? Per the Chevy web site, the sedan version of the Cobalt LS and 1LT are both "XFE" models. The LS has a base price of $15,070 and the 1LT is $15,780, however, when you configure them with no options, they come out $2,000 less than that due a cash allowance deal they've got going on.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/cobalt/2008/5speed_en.jsp

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    There was so much talk about the "Best-in-Class" Cobalt Coupe, I didn't realize the XFE model came on Sedans as well; it just isn't best-in-class in the sedan realm.

    Thanks for the info!
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    How's it a dog, do you have over 200,000 miles on the beast?
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I think the coupe came out first in XFE.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    A dog can be reliable; we should really drop the Astro talk before a host asks us to do so. :)

    In response to the on-topic post, I don't know if one came out before the other, but since the ads on this page always show that yellow Cobalt Coupe, I guess it put it in my mind that the XFE was coupe-only.
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    If I can get an excellant deal on a current Mazda3, I will not wait until Feb. to purchase a '10 Mazda3. The bigest question I have now is the 2 engines which come on the current Mazda3, i.e., the 2.0 and the 2.3. Does anyone know for sure which engine is the best quality wise or most reliable? tyvm :shades:
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    There should be no difference quality wise between the two engines as they are variations of the same engine. The 2.0 is reported to give better fuel economy (though my 2.3 regularly returns more than the government's estimates (in Canada I am routinely getting 6.3 l/100km (sorry don't have time to convert for you, but know it is higher than the EPA estimates as well as transport Canada estimates), I do probably 90% highway milage though. In any case I wouldn't worry about the quality of either engine, if you are satisfied with the power of the 2.0 and can get the features you want in a car with the 2.0 I would go with that engine just because it will be a bit cheaper to buy, and the better fuel economy (I only got the 2.3 as it was the only engine Mazda Canada offered in the 5 door at the time).
    Scott
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    tyvm for info!! :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I simply second everything that scwmcan said; the smaller engined 3 might actually be the more valuable one down the road, with its better fuel mileage. The only thing I don't like about it is that the 4-speed automatic has a very short 4th gear (meaning high-rpms at highway speeds). The 5-speed should have a more relaxed highway gear.
  • waiwai Member Posts: 325
    Your highway mileage is 37.3MPG which is very impressive given the fact that it has 17 inches wheel and four speed txm, my auto civic with 16 inches wheel and five speed txm can only get 33 MPG. Its' ashame that Mazda only sell 2.0 litre 5 door hatchback in South East Asia countries, but not in USA or Canada.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Actually, my car has 16" wheels and the manual transmission (the base 5 door in 2007 had 16s). The 5 door with the 2.0 is now available in Canada, if it had been available when I purchased then I would have got it. Also the 2007 GT and Hatch had a 5 speed auto in canada (at least)
    Scott
  • leonfamleonfam Member Posts: 21
    Recently decided against a used Accord, and the used Elantra was too smelly. So...been cruising these forums and the web, and test driving, to try to figure out new vs used in the small sedan. Sandman, you had a post (that i can't find now) that covered what we are looking for (blend of FE, price, reliability, comfort and safety). And, I have found the posts on the Mazda3 and Civic very helpful. Our roads are also rough and bumpy..which concerns me for those 2 models.

    I'm really curious if you've purchased for your daughter, and if so, what did you buy? I haven't driven the new Sentra, and wonder if I should. Can't seem to find pricing in Edmunds, and the Nissan website if ridiculously slow to load.

    I've got info overload. Better half wants to know what the heck I'm learning by doing so much research...
    :P
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Leonfam-
    You have to sit back, take a deep breath, and realize you aren't going to screw this up too badly, there really isn't that big of a loser in the whole bunch. It is more a matter of realizing your needs and what is most important to you (or whoever is the main driver of the car).

    Does the car typically only have the driver or is it usually full of passengers? Do you need a back seat that can be comfortable for adults?

    What else are you transporting? Do you need to carry a stroller or luggage often (or a bicycle or a dog carrier or something)?

    Do you have bulky items to transport for work?

    Do you take a lot of trips? How many people go with you and how long are the trips?

    Do you live in a climate that has snow and ice?

    Do you have a fuel economy requirement in mind, and have you looked at the real difference in fuel cost between different models you are considering (ie if a car gets 30 and another gets 32, is that going to make a big difference in your life)?

    Do you like a performance oriented ride or a comfort oriented ride?

    Would you consider yourself to be an enthusiast driver or more point-a to point-b?

    I think those questions will help define your market a little bit. The one I left out is your budget, but that will be the same no matter what types of vehicles you are examining.
    I hope these help.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    One alternative to consider for a safe car for a daughter is a used 3-Series. No, I am not kidding. Consider that there are well-maintained E46 3-Series sedans and coupes out there that have decent power but not too much--actually no more than some of today's 4-cylinder sedans. They can be found pretty readily with all the important safety features, including 6 (or even 8) airbags, 4-wheel discs with ABS and traction control, electronic stability control, and very good crash test scores. Plus they have excellent handling, which itself is a key safety feature. And the best thing is that cars like this can be had for as little as $12-14k + T&L, depending on transmission, options, and miles. If you've checked around you know that this is the same price range as, for example, a two-year-old Elantra or Sonata. Something like a Corolla or Civic would be even more.

    So why do I mention this? Because I just made this decision myself, and instead of a car like a 2007 Elantra or Sonata that is a former rental with about 35k miles on it (but some remaining factory warranty), I bought a loaded 2000 328Ci coupe with 68k miles on it. I will drive it for four years, then turn it over to my daughter for late high school and college. BTW, she doesn't mind the idea of driving a BMW to school vs. a Hyundai. :)

    Yes, the maintenance on a 3-Series with 68k miles on it will likely be higher than on a Hyundai. But I checked the car carefully, it was a one-owner always serviced at a local BMW dealer, so I have the entire service history and can see that the major and even minor services have been done recently. Also this dealer went over the car thoroughly and did any items needing action, including an oil change (synthetic, good for a year) and even new wiper blades. The car itself is in excellent condition--interior is like new, no rust, and the dealer (through a body shop) is taking care of a few scratches and dings before I take delivery.

    What it came down to in the end was two things: 1) is the car a safe car for my daughter? 2) will I enjoy driving the car over the next 4 years? I am sure I would have liked driving a Sonata or Elantra or Mazda6i (my other main choice) just fine, but I have always wanted to get a 3-Series coupe, and the car is a huge step up from the others in this price range. (It should be as it was nearly $40k new.) So I get to live my dream for relatively little bucks ($12.4k +T&L), I have a car that should require little in maintenance for the next two years except an oil change (knock on wood), and my daughter will get a safe car when I am done with it.

    Of course, there is the little matter of buying premium gas for the car, but that is the penalty I pay for owning the Ultimate Driving Machine. :shades:
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Member Posts: 182
    This is SO brilliant! I've been considering going this route with a pre-owned Bimmer, series three, myself. It's good to know that I'm NOT alone in this mindset. My one question is this:
    Is it possible to run the a BMW 3 with regular? Excuse my ignorance, but this is one question I've not checked out anywhere.

    Bravo, though...well done of you to bring this point of of a pre-owned 3 alternative!

    Peace!!<-AladdinSane<- :shades: -
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have done a little research on this topic, and what I've seen is that yes, it is possible to run a 3-Series, e.g. 323, 325, 328 on 87 octane, but it's not worth it, since it seems that fuel economy is reduced to eliminate any benefit of the lower priced gas, And of course you won't get as good of performance with regular, and may get knocking. So I plan on going with premium. I might try a tank of 89 octane as an experiment sometime though.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Purchased my daughter an 07 SE 4door automatic Focus with about 15,000 miles, clean title, clean carfax. I got this car for $10,500 cash. Bought it from large Ford dealer who has been around for years. The original owner actually bought it from the dealership. Asking why the return? The original owner just wanted a bit larger vehicle. Good, reliable and inexpensive transportation. Took the car on a round trip of about 300miles and averaged about 36MPG doing about 70MPH on average. I told her I know its not the coolest car, but hey, for a first car its pretty nice. Plus it will easily last her through college, be cheap on gas and upkeep. :)
  • dengludenglu Member Posts: 12
    Could anyone recommend the best (based on your experience) Honda dealership in San Francisco Bay area?

    Edmunds is showing TMV price of $18,230, whereas carsdirect.com is giving $17,471...could anyone kindly share his/her experience buying a new 2008 Honda Civic LX 4dr sedan in any of the dealerships around SF Bay area?...I was wondering if i could get a better deal in case i am willing to pay the entire amount rather than use financing or it is better to mention this at the end?

    I am interested in the base model, do not need navigation or other bells and whistles...just want to survey what was OTD price people paid for 2008 Honda Civiv LX 4dr in SF Bay area this month or month before

    A little of what i found out so far: carsdirect.com pricing seems to be deflated, as Bluebook also suggests that the average price people pay for the car is $18,246.00 with the range being $18,064.00-$18,428.00 (edmunds TMV price is $18,430), whereas carsdirect seems to be well below that, so probably, not really attainable in reality...my understanding is that theres is a basic 36-month warranty which is a part of the basic package...am i wrong? So is that right to assume that OTD = price FOR THE CAR (incl. destination)+warranty? or usually when people mention OTD price it excludes the warranties? It is my current understanding is that when bluebook or edmunds show the price people tend to pay for a given model DOES include the basic 3-year warranty, but i maybe wrong on this one....

    i am looking for standard package with standard specs, just wanna get a handle on what is the average price people are paying at this moment for 2008 Honda Civic LX 4-dr sedan with a standard package in SF Bay area (by standard i mean specs mentioned at http://www.kbb.com/kbb/NewCars/Specifications/2008_Honda_Civic_Sedan_223770.aspx- - ) .

    Thanks in advance
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi, welcome to CarSpace!

    You found the best place to ask here: denglu, "Honda Civic Prices Paid and Buying Experience" #7556, 5 Oct 2008 11:38 pm. You should also check out our Dealer Ratings & Reviews sections.

    Good luck!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak to consumers who have downsized their vehicle in the past year . If you moved from a larger vehicle to a smaller one, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime phone number by Thursday, October 16.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak to consumers who recently purchased a new small or mid-sized car and either got great financing or cash back/incentives offered to them . If this is you, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime phone number by Wednesday, October 8, 2008.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    We've actually narrowed the search down to the Accent or the Versa and haven't ruled out buying for both girls at the same time. They want a small car and are leaning towards the Hyundai at this point. This will be a cash deal so it'll be pretty asy for the dealer I suspect. Hopefully by the end of November we'll have done the deed on one...or possibly both vehicles.

    The Sandman :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I'm surprised that there is not much talk about this. Mazda just released the first photos of the 2010 sedan version.

    In Mazda's press release, the 2.0L motor with have "top class fuel economy". In a review by a journalist, Mazda informed them that the 2.0L will utilize direct injection, as well as Mazda's new SISS system to improve fuel economy.

    The Mazda3 s will utilize Mazda's new 2.5L with 170hp and offer their slick 6-speed manual tranny.

    I can't wait!!

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Mazda-3/235310/

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/08/2010-mazda3-unveiled-ahead-of-la-auto-show/
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Some of the crash-test scores on the Accent steered my folks away from the Accent when they were shopping for a small car (they liked the Versa best of all because of the room and the substantial feel, followed by the "fun" Scion xD).

    Just make sure you check out the scores and be aware.

    Good luck on the car-hunt!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Great looking car (from the rear, anyway), horrible photography.

    Can't we get a nice front 3/4 view? Or is this just to tease us?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    It's typical Mazda tease photography. They always do this.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Did you know... you can get a gently-used 3-Series (compact class) with all the latest safety equipment, excellent crash test scores, excellent dynamic safety, luxury items like leather and moonroof, and 35+ mpg highway for about the same real-world price as an Accent GLS or Versa S? Also I have found teenagers don't mind driving a BMW to school rather than a Hyundai (or Nissan).

    Just a thought. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Where can you get a "gently used" BMW 3 series for $12,000 to $15,000???

    Gently used to me means 10,000-15,000 miles, and in excellent condition. I don't see any under $30,000 like that. A BMW in that price range will have close to 100,000 on it. BMW's at the mileage are most certainly not reliable, or cheap to maintain.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I guess it all depends on what you think "gently used" is. To me, a car in excellent condition inside and out, always well-maintained (with all records) and with all maintenance current, preferably a one-owner car (a private owner), doesn't have to have 10-15k miles on it to be considered "gently used."

    I did a lot of shopping around for new and used cars over the past couple of months. What I found was that I could get a two-year-old Accent GLS in very good condition, around 20k miles, former rental, for about $11k; a two-year-old Elantra GLS in very good condition, around 30k miles, formal rental, for $12.5-13k; and a mid-sizer like a two-year-old Sonata or Mazda6i for around $13k and up, with 30-40k miles or more, mostly former rentals. OR I could get an E46 in the 2000-2003 years with from 40k-70k miles for $12k-14k. I went with the E46 option, a 2000 328Ci with premium package and 68k miles, one owner, for $12.4k. Or I could have gotten a used Elantra GLS, maybe a new Accent GLS but with the surge in popularity of small cars lately they are getting more pricey now. But I would have done without ESC, traction control, auto climate control, moonroof (on the Accent at least), power front seats with memory, leather interior/wheel, real wood trim, 10-speaker audio, telescopic wheel with audio controls, self-leveling Xenon headlamps, 193 hp I6 vs. a 4-banger, and of course the handling of a 3-Series. What I gave up was 2-3 years of factory warranty and a little fuel economy (but not as much as I expected), and of course there is a much greater chance that I'll need to replace parts on an 8-year-old car than on a 2-3 year old car. But I'll need only one oil change per year vs. 2, and I know a good mechanic that charges a lot less for BMW maintenance than my local dealer.

    I can't argue with choosing something like an Elantra or Sonata or Mazda6. Personally I would not go with an Accent due to the crash safety issue the grad mentioned, and I don't like the idea paying $16k for what would be a very basic car in the Yaris--I'd rather get something like an Elantra SE or Sonata GLS for that kind of money.
  • socal2006socal2006 Member Posts: 44
    The autocar preview is encouraging. They really like the new powertrains. The 2.0 is going to be sweet power/fuel economy spot - hope they offer it in the hatch.

    The 2.5L looks to be very nice. It already gets 22/30 in the 6 which is better than what the 2.3L gets currently in the 3. With the 3 lighter than the 6, i'd expect hopefully 24/32. Very nice considering the 2.5L is outputting substantially more power.

    Too bad the diesel doesn't appear to be coming. Better performance than the screamer in the MPS? wow.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Won't buy used for them, wife wouldn't even consider it. She's always had new...always will. Girls already know how much cash $ they have and they've both decided on new. End of story...I've been outvoted!
    Have already shown them the safety stuff and discussed the subject to death. All I need to do is go make the deals.

    The Sandman :)
  • smallcarsmallcar Member Posts: 39
    Hosts - Can we get a forum to discuss the 2010 Mazda3 now that some official pictures have been released?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    It's already in existence.

    2010 Mazda 3
  • smallcarsmallcar Member Posts: 39
    Thanks! I didn't see it - I was looking under the Mazda forums, not Future Vehicles.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    It should have been listed under Mazda3 discussions, but it was not. It is now - thanks for pointing that out. :)
  • leonfamleonfam Member Posts: 21
    Great thoughts on the used lux approach. Thanks for sharing. We've also cruised down that aisle (BMW 3 and Volvo S40/S60)..but ran into some bumps.

    Here they are (in no particular order):

    CR reliability reports for the BMW and the S40 aren't great. In our price range they come out as average to below average. Life is busy enough with having a car in the shop...

    S60 dosn't have the FE we desire, though reliability is higher than the S40

    For the BMW - our price range is going to mean higher mileage...heading into more risk of repairs

    We plan to use it for a longer period as our kids aren't close to driving age yet.

    On the flip side...I can get lots more safety, quality and comfort for my $$. Love that!

    you see...(dare I be this honest?...)...the Corolla is now on the list. Safety, price and FE. Only size/price combo that has ESC. Might not be able to get it with ESC that easily in my area, but looking into it...

    Other half just won't go for a Hyundai...and really, anything "mid size" is more than works for us.

    CR reports 25 mpg for the BWM 3- whadda think? If true, puts it in the desired FE range.....but that is just up until 2000. In 2001 it drips to 22 mpg.

    -
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    With the exception of the M3, pretty much any 3-Series since the debut of the E46 in 1999 will be able to return 22-25 MPG in mixed driving and over 30 on the highway.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    For the two weeks I've been driving my 2000 328Ci, overall FE is at 32.2 mpg. That includes a 360-mile highway trip and two weeks of around-town driving. I doubt I would do any better on my 2004 Elantra. I have been pleasantly surprised by the FE on the 3-Series. But I also drive it moderately. Someone who wrings it out all the time would not fare as well. But might have more fun. :)

    The tradeoff is a car with more miles on it that could need new parts sooner than a newer, low-end used car, for all the safety, creature comforts, and handling of a luxury coupe. I decided it was an acceptable trade off for me. If it turns out the car starts being a money pit, I'll probably dump it and never go that route again. But I had to try it, at least once.

    P.S. There is a huge difference between an S40 and 3-Series. Depending on year, the S40 is basically a rebadged Mitsubishi or Mazda compact. The 3-Series is, well, the Ultimate Driving Machine. ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Outside of a simple platform, (which really has nothing to do with a car) there is no Mazda in the Volvo S40. Different engines, trannys, suspension, electrical, materials, technology, tires, etc.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I would say that the car's platform has a LOT to do with a car, but I see your point about the differences.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    even make it into this forum? No-way can you get a BMW for $12-15,000! new or even "slightly used". Unless of course you mean a 10 year old BMW ;)
    Motor Trend has an extensive article about the Ford Fiesta coming to the U.S. The only thing I wish Ford would change is the geeky name.. Fiesta.. Should have stayed with a more modern, catchy name like the Verve... :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    To be fair, backy was discussing his options between a $16k-$20k car and a used BMW, weighing the pros and cons.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Fiesta doesn't belong in this discussion, but in the Low-End cars discussion. :P
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We will all find the right forums for the cars we wish to discuss. :)

    Or we'll just agree to get along here without worries, which would also be a wise choice.
  • leonfamleonfam Member Posts: 21
    I am also seeing BMW's (3's) in the 12-15K range. 2001-04, 67K miles or less. And that is asking price. Today's market...whaddya think? potential for 2K less?

    I also keep getting distracted by used GTI's. First car was a 72 Chevy Impala..and I've migrated down to 4-bangers since then. A little turbo and more hp sounds like a lot more fun! Stuffing the kid in the back seat holds me back.....
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