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Economy Sedans (~$16k-$20k)

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Comments

  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    I want to make it clear to prospective Honda Civic buyers that there are things I do like about the 06 EX sedan we own. My previous post WAS negative but then I was asked what I disliked. I loved the new body style when I first saw it in the fall of 2005 and still do. I was undecided about the two tier dash originally but I have come to like it. And the fuel economy has been good. Is it better than ALL the competition? I don't know but we get mid 20's in urban use. I consider this reasonable but others swear it should be much higher. Highway use yields mid to upper 30's depending on variables like terrain, speed etc. I consider this good but once again there are others who say they routinely get in the 40's. Build quality and paint work seems good but interior plastics are cheap and mar/scratch easily. Road noise seems high with wind noise a close second. Oops I am slipping back into the negatives aren't I? Guess I'll stop now.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Steve - I've owned Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans, and Toyotas, but bought my wife a 2006 Hyundai Elantra. In the 20 months we've owned the Elantra, it's been perfectly reliable with absolutely no warranty issues since purchase. The same can't be said for any other new car we've owned, including the aforementioned Japanese cars as well as a few European cars. Our previous Honda Civic was in for warranty-related issues 5 times during the first 6 months of ownership.

    The routine service experience at the dealer has been wonderful. They treat us with respect, and do the work well. Of course, the only experience we have with them is for normal routine preventive maintenance such as oil changes, etc. But, we can get the car in for an oil change without an appointment, and turnaround time is less than a couple of hours at most. The dealership physical plant is quite new, and the customer waiting area would put many hotel lobbies to shame, with plasma TV's hanging from stone walls, free WiFi, free and expedient shuttle service to and from work, free breakfasts and free coffee to order, and a complimentary car wash after your car's service. It's as classy as any Lexus dealership I've visited. This dealer is a multi-brand "megastore" carrying Toyota, Scion, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Chrysler, and VW - all with dedicated and standalone showrooms and service areas.

    No bits or pieces have fallen off the Elantra, and we directly compared the Elantra to the previous generation Civic and current generation Corolla in terms of panel gaps, overall apparent build quality, and attention to detail, and it was the equal to either of them. So, we bought the Elantra GLS for $13,500 delivered, including Tax, Title, and License, and have been very happy with the decision.

    I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Hyundai based upon our experience so far. Hyundai today is not the Hyundai of the '80s, and is a far better car than most American consumers perceive it to be.
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    No bits or pieces have fallen off the Elantra, and we directly compared the Elantra to the previous generation Civic and current generation Corolla in terms of panel gaps, overall apparent build quality, and attention to detail, and it was the equal to either of them. So, we bought the Elantra GLS for $13,500 delivered, including Tax, Title, and License, and have been very happy with the decision.

    That's good to know. The only Hyundai I've driven were the rental cars in Guam and believe me Hyundai does not stand up to rental car abuse although the place claims that they sell them off every 2 years. Still The oldest one they have is about a year old so who knows.
    Rental cars are usually falling apart because people beat them. I like renting from this place because there is no drama from them. One phone call and a car is reserved and waiting for me. I pay half the going rate as I am a repeat customer and the Hyundai works ok for what I have to do. I wouldn't say it' exciting in anyway. But it does get pretty good economy in Guam which has no highways.
    I showed one to my wife and she didn't seem very enthused. But if the price is well below a civic it might be worth taking a chance on. but her car is up to her. me I need a fun car as i have to do all the long haul driving. ;)
    I guess we can check out out when we get back to the US.
    Thanks.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    A friend recently compared a few makes and boiled it down to Mazda 3 vs Civic. Manual for both. Mazda got the sale with .9% interest rate for 3 yr loan. Honda was at 6.9% interest. The local Ford dlr advertises Fusion manual for $16400 and With auto for $16500. This is a larger car with a couple less mpg. What is downside for getting a Fusion with an automatic than the Mazda 3 with an automatic? Road noise, ride quality, seat comfort and features inside are most important to me. Assume I'm gonna drive it 200k miles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Road noise, ride quality (smoothness), and seat comfort (especially in the rear) are in favor of the Fusion. Handling and fuel economy are in favor of the Mazda3.

    But... as long as you are looking at a manual Mazda3, and also looking at a Fusion, have you looked at the MT Mazda6 VE? In my town, it is available w/o negotiating for $16,300 + T&L, and it is a very well equipped car and has ride and handling more like that of the Mazda3, but more interior room.

    If you are looking in the mid-sized space, a couple of other cars to consider that would fall into the $16k price range are the Optima and Sonata. Also have you checked out the Elantra SE? It would be less than $15k for a 2007 with MT, and has a smooth, quiet ride, bevy of features, and very good seat comfort (mid-sized interior room, compact outside).
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    I reckon the Fusion would be more comfortable to drive and that price is excellent. Reliability has been well above average.
    I'm not a Ford fan, but the Fusion is one I would consider.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    What is downside for getting a Fusion with an automatic than the Mazda 3 with an automatic?

    Styling is purely subjective, but I like the 3 better than the Fusion, although both are decent-looking. The 4-cylinder in the 3 is smoother than the 4-cylinder in the Fusion (at least the Mazda 2.3L, not sure about the Mazda 2.0L), and offers better performance and gas mileage, due to it's (slightly) smaller size.

    Inside, the 3 wins easily. Interior materials are much nicer in the 3, with better fit-and-finish and higher quality than the Fusion.

    As for your other concerns:
    Road noise: The Fusion is quieter due to the softer base-model tires and wheels, compared to the 17" wheels/tires on the 3.
    Ride quality: IMO, this depends on the type you prefer. If you like to actually "feel" the road, and how the car is reacting to it, the 3's your choice. If you like a smoother ride, with more isolation, pick the Fusion.
    Seat comfort: For my 6'-3", 250 lb. build, both front seats are comfortable and nice for long trips. The Fusion has more rear leg and head room, but the 3 is okay for short trips, or if the only riders you expect are kids.
    Features: The 3 by a long shot, considering you can get a well-equipped Mazda 3S, compared to a close-to-bare-bones Fusion.

    IMO, for the price, I'd get the 3, since it's more fun-to-drive for me. Either way, make sure you test-drive both cars as much as possible before making a decision, and good luck! :)
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    i have noticed a lot of peeps complaining about this.

    it never bothered me, but i did notice the hushed nature of the rabbit when we bought one after the civic.

    having said that, the honda's engine was ten times better sounding, so i didn't mind. ;) But it was no deal breaker.

    even the competition that has been labeled 'quiter' is only marginally so. I think only the elantra has the one up on the civic in that regard...and even then, its still only marginal.

    I had an 06 civic, fresh when they came out; the only 'issue' was the visors. Granted every car manufactuerer can have bugs, and when you are new to the brand, its a recepie for disaster....if i was targettunning, i'd be mad at my experience too...but unlike him, i don't write honda off, but thats due to my current and previous experience with other honda's.

    sound advice: never buy first year if you feel like it could potentially piss you off to no end. :)

    having said that, the our fit is amazing!
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Saw this in the paper last week for $15,020.00 which is a screamin' deal! Great seats and ride and pretty quiet as I remember. The 2.3 engine feels better in our Mazda3, but it's a smaller car, so that just makes sense. The looks of the car are very Asian, though I prefer the front styling to the rear. A great bargain for a smaller mid sized car and I think it's the end of this generations cycle. Definitely worth a look for anyone looking for a small economy car.
    I feel the road noise is louder in the Mazda than in my Civic actually. Could be because the Traction T/A's are just a noiser tire compared th the RS-A's that I'm currently running on the Civic.

    The Sandman :)
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    My research showed the Mazda3 i sport with 2.3 and auto comes with 16 x 6.5 alloy rims standard. Didn't check the 3S. Is that different than the i sport model? Couldn't find any feature listed on the mazda that is not on the Fusion except alloy wheels. I was looking at the i sport 2.3 auto. can I seriously get about 2000 off sticker on the Mazda 3 to bring it down to 16500 plus an allowance for the alloy wheels.
    I also found current incentives on the Mazda6 with automatic that bring it down to 18,725. That equals the mazda3 price with 2.3 and auto. to see it advertized for 15,400 is suprising, making total discount over 5000. I drive a 1970's interstate for 27 miles in a straight line each way, with potholes and bumps and too many trucks. I'm seeking isolation, not feel. 20 more miles after that on perfectly straight roads to reach home. Today for example, took 110 minutes to fight thru traffic including gas stop and grocery stop.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you want isolation, take a drive in the Sonata. If you can find a 2007 GLS, you can likely get one below $16k with automatic, ABS, ESC, power everything. In this class, the smoothest rides are probably in the Cobalt, Elantra, Spectra, and maybe the Corolla. Of these, the Corolla would provide the best fuel economy. Be sure to take a long drive in it, though--the driving position can be uncomfortable for some people.
  • mgoldsteinmgoldstein Member Posts: 58
    I live in PA and my daughter goes to school in Waco TX. So I am trying to buy her a car long distance. Since I am so far away, I am hoping to shoot for someting that will allow me to 'sleep at night!' Unfortunatley, unless you are looking for a Ford or Chevy truck, the pickings are slim in central TX! I am trying to be in the $9000 range, thereabouts.

    I have come up with the following options:

    2005 Hyundai Elantra GT 5 door hatchback w/51000 miles. Fully equipped with leather, sunroof, etc., a real 'looker' at $9200 .. OR ..

    2002 Nissan Sentra GXE w/ 37000 miles. Standard equipment, no remote (which troubles me for a kid at college, also Sentras don't seem to score as well as Elantra in web chats and CU.org). The price for this is $8950 .. OR ..

    2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS 4 door w/ 11000 miles. The dealer wants $10,800. More than I wanted to spend, but I am intrigued by being left with 49000 miles of the 60000 mile Hyundai warranty.

    Just curious on your thoughts on these options. Is it worth the extra $ to go with the Elantra with low mileage?

    I can also get my hands on a 2006 Elantra GLS sedan with 45000 for $9500, but I think I would go with the aforementioned 05 Elantra H/B with more bells and whistles.

    Thanks.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    I would say plug all of those cars into the Edmunds used car pricing calculator thingy and see which are good deals. The first one sounds a little high to me. Also, there is a somewhat active Hyundai owners group in the area (http://www.dfwhyundais.com based in Dallas/Fort Worth), as well as some other Hyundai forums (ElantraClub.com, ElantraXD.com). If she ends up with an Elantra, tell her to check out those sites. If she has questions about her car, we can help. If she even needs some stuff done to the car, we can maybe get some help as well. I'm in Fort Worth, about 80 miles away.

    I have a 2005 Elantra hatch (though not a GT... those leather seats get REAL hot in the Texas sun which is something to consider), and it is a pretty good car. I know the dealerships in Dallas-Fort Worth area have been great so far, and I think there is a good one in Waco, and there are also some down by Austin.

    And no matter what, if the car she gets doesn't have window tint, I know a place that does it for dealerships that charges $140. A good investment down here. (They're in Cleburne, about 60 miles from Waco.) She might be able to find a similar deal closer.

    Part of the warranty is free courtesy towing too... just in case.

    Let me guess.... Baylor?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The miles on the 2005 GT seem pretty high for its age. If it were me I'd go for the 2006 Elantra with the longer factory warranty. I don't think the Sentra is nearly as nice a car as the Elantra, although it would fetch a little higher fuel economy. If your daughter will ever haul anyone in the back seat (likely), they'll appreciate the much roomier back seat in the Elantra.

    If the $10,800 is the dealer's asking price, try to work it down some.

    Also, it may interest you to know that the Elantra is Edmunds.com's top pick for a used car in this class.
  • mgoldsteinmgoldstein Member Posts: 58
    Thanks Doohickie. Actually she is a student at TWU in Denton, but my in-laws live in Waco. I was focusing on Waco as my in-laws were good about running around town looking at cars for me. This is hard to do long distance! Now that I know what she wants, then I started checking the dealerships in/around Denton.

    I am leaning away from the high mileage 05 Elantra GT hatch w/ leather and sunroof. It is now between an 06 Elantra GLS sedan in Waco (w/ 12000 miles) or an 06 Elantra GLS hatch (w/ 33000 miles) at McNatt in Denton. I tried the Eckert Hyundai but they don't have much stock. They are both about the same price; the 12000 mile car was in service for 12 months and the 33000 mile car was in service for 19 months.

    I know the 12000 mile car is a better deal, but I think my daughter actually likes the hatchback better than the sedan.

    I need to decide today. I think I can't go wrong either way and it seems like a pretty good decision in the +/- $11000 out the door range.

    Thanks for your assistance.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    if you have such back luck with anything ford, then why are you looking at mazda?
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    the sentra seems a little high priced, as my dealership just sold a 05 sentra with 35k miles (automatic, air cond, power win/locks) for 9995. Not to mention, take a look at the crash scores for the sentra (safercar.gov).

    the elantra scores much better in the crash tests.

    10,800 for a GLS elantra is actually a very good price to start from. Wholesale on that car is only a few hundred less. Edmunds shows trade in about 10,000.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    I prefer a hatch too; that's why I got one. But even the sedans have a fold-down rear seat, so oversized items can fit.

    When I moved my son from college in Iowa back to Texas, all this stuff:

    image

    fit into the Elantra. If you don't believe me, see for yourself:

    image
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    OH yeah, you think your so cool with your hatch backs...check out a real wagon.
    image

    Okay, just playin ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Was it ISU by chance?
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    Naw.... Coe College in Cedar Rapids. They gave him a good scholarship, but it's such a small school he had trouble getting into the classes he wanted. He lasted a year there and came home. :/

    Now he's a waiter at a movie tavern and going to community college.

    And... umm... he drove my Elantra once (on topic! :P )
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Go with the '06 Elantra with the 11k miles, just for the longer warranty period makes it a better buy in my opinion. You'll be happier you opted for the sedan if something major craps out at the 50k mark. Also, a trunk is a bit safer than a hatch, but that's just personal preference.

    The Sandman :)
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    I thought Hyundai warrantys werent transferrable.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The 100k powertrain isn't; maybe its all good until 5/60k?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, the 5/60k bumper-to-bumper warranty is fully transferrable to the 2nd owner. And if the car has the Hyundai extended warranty, the 10/100k warranty becomes bumper-to-bumper and is transferrable.
  • mgoldsteinmgoldstein Member Posts: 58
    Thanks for all the advice. I just wrapped up the 06 Elantra GLS sedan with 11,000 1 owner miles a few hours ago. All this, of course, is pending the vehicle inspection by an independent mechanic and body shop. I got the car for $10,400 plus TTL. I think it is a good deal.

    The local Hyundai dealership, who will service the car, indicated that the 5/60k mile warranty is fully transferable. The 100k powertrain is not transferable and therefore those issues would be covered in the 5/60k warranty.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    Exactly correct on the warranty. I hope the car provides years of faith service!
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    if you have such back luck with anything ford, then why are you looking at mazda?

    I know more than a few guys who love/hate Chevy or Ford depending and for various reasons. Some don't consider Mazda to be Ford, others do and some won't buy it because it's a foreign car.
    I think Mazda has some cars that are basically Fords and other cars that are not and are mostly Japanese with no or little Ford intervention. From my way of looking at it the Speed3 is a Japanese car and I don't see anything in Fords lineup that is similar to it.
    I know the guy who originally posted this and he really does have bad luck with Fords!
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    My biggest issue with Ford is they started off with the Contour being really cool with a high-end euro feel to it and turned it into a rental queen before killing it off altogether. My '96 was fantastic with the V6 and the 5 speed.

    Oh well I digress.
  • mattgg1mattgg1 Member Posts: 191
    lilengineerboy -

    I just stumbled across this forum and had to respond to your post...

    YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH YOUR 1996 FORD CONTOUR!!!!

    You bring that car up ALL of the time in ALL different forums. Even if it has no relevance to the conversation, you somehow find away to work it in.

    We get it, you like the car, it was a fantastic car, it was a wonderful car. But please, get over it and move on! It is a 12 year old vehicle that hasn't been sold here in years! Please stop comparing it to modern day vehicles.

    Maybe you should try the "Classic Cars" forum.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    LOL sorry, totally valid point. I think the problem is that cars peaked in the 90s. Sure there have been evolutionary and incremental improvements, but eh, the revolutionary stuff was done.
    An E36 M3 sedan can carry 4 in reasonable comfort (actually the coupe isn't terrible in the back), is as fast as an RX7, and is a heck of a lot more fun to drive than a current Camcord.
    A mid/late-90s Civic SI was a track demon, ran on cheap gas, and easy to maintain. Ditto the Integra. Today, the Civic is about the same; not worse, but not a whole lot better either. The Integra/RSX got axed, Acuras are only for grown ups. In the midsize sedan chat the Honda zealots are praising their mid-90s Accords even 3 generations later.
    Excuse me for not being about to get excited about a battery powered, rubber band transmission, isolation chamber of a transportation module :P :sick:
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    Rented one some years ago and was very impressed with it. It would be a big hit now that smaller cars are coming in vogue.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    A friend just rented one for 1000 mile round trip. Typical rental w/ auto. did 70-80 mph most of time and a/c on with temps in low 90's. Got 37 mpg average. Road noise isolation was pretty good he said.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    We also rented s 2007 Elantra GLS with a strange mix of option packages (the PR-S package). This is just an observation and means nothing at all. Anyhow we also own a 2006 Honda Civic, you know one of the gen. 8 cars that everyone says is the benchmark for small?..compact? sedans. Both our Civic and the Elantra had about the same number of miles so that part of the comparison will be equal. What MAY not be equal is the type of use to generate those miles since the Elantra is a rental (drive it like you stole it) verses our gently driven Civic. I'll try to compare one to the other but keep in mind the Civic is an EX which in Honda lingo is the top of the line for standard Civics and the Elantra was a GLS which is the bottom or entry model although the packages added necessary features.
    1.exterior design: Honda...I still like the design of this best because it looks sleek and modern. Elantra...I like this design also but it looks less sleek than the Honda. Overall it wouldn't deter me from buying the Hyundai however
    2. Fit and finish outside: A wash, since both have tight body panel gaps and a good paint job with no flaws I saw. Both have doors that sound substantial when shut (this probably doesn't mean anything except a tinny sound is a turn-off to me). Of note,the inside of the Elantra trunk lid is unfinished (no insulation pad) while the EX Civic has one BUT I believe lesser model Civics don't have one either.
    3.Fit and finish inside: I didn't see any glaring problems with the Hyundai and nothing fell of in my hand while we had it. The Elantra used hard plastics liberally in several areas. So does Honda in the Civic. The difference is the "quality" of those plastics. How do I define quality? Well, I have been vocal about the easily scratched door panel plastic on our Civic. It scratches when you look at it and my wife who has long nails scratches it while groping for the door pull. As a result the door looks like its off a 10 year old car. I deliberately tried to scratch (with my fingernails) the plastic on the door of the Elantra..nada didn't scratch. Will keys or a screwdriver scratch it? Probably. The fabric material on the Hyundai seats looks,well, economy car-ish. The pattern is unremarkable and it is one of those "just there" things that while not offending doesn't cause you to break out in dance either. The Civic also has fabric seat material and when new it looked a little more classy than the Elantra. You will notice I said "when new" because despite having only 10,5XX miles the driver side seat has a worn patch. Yes, the pattern has worn off (I have a new cover waiting at my dealer). So, while the Hyundai is a bit more unremarkable looking it wasn't worn a bit despite having about the same number of miles in 1/3 the time. Also of note, on our Civic the door sills are painted (body color) metal. So what? Well over time I find scrapes and scratches and mars from shoes dragged over it as we get in/out. On the Elantra there is a heavy plastic cover over the sill. It doesn't show all those marks. A personal preference? You bet. I thought I liked the two tier instrument panel on the Civic until I drove the Elantra which has standard clearly read gages on one level..maybe I just got used to it and will again no doubt. I really like the XM radio as found on the Elantra (as part of a package on the cheapest model...standard on the rest. I looked into dealer installing it on our Civic and it was about $800 at the time plus ripping out half the interior trim and dash..no thanks!
    4.Ride and drive: Right off the top the Elantra was (felt) more roomy inside. I always thought the Honda had a lot of road (tire maybe) noise and wind noise too. The Elantra was considerably quieter in both regards, we could actually talk at normal speech levels. The Honda has trigger quick movements, twitch that small steering wheel and off you go. This actually was another thing I had to get used to when we first bought it. The Elantra was...what?...normal? in its response to wheel movements. This is not to say it doesn't respond to inputs well just not so instantly. Does this bother me in any way? Nope. Routine handling...what can I say? neither car makes me feel uncomfortable in curvy stretches of mountain driving. Keep in mind I am not in a rally either. Ah the ride. The Civic is taunt..firm even. It certainly isn't uncomfortable..to me anyhow even though it has a go-cart feel. But the Elantra is much better at delivering a smoother, less firm (softer) ride and may be more tolerable on poor roads.
    5.) Performance: The Civic has about the same power as the Elantra but the Elantra felt less stressed in accelerating to speed on an on ramp or passing. The Civic has a 5 speed automatic transmission that is never happy to be in 5th. It is constantly downshifting on the slightest grade. Annoying to me and in the end the 4 speed automatic in the Elantra allows the engine to rev at about the same RPM at highway speeds as the Honda. I will say the Elantra seemed to maintain speed up the side of one mountain better than the Honda. No official timing here but seat of the pants only.
    5.Fuel economy: Although I have not used the Civic in exactly the same drive scenario and terrain as the Elantra it delivered better economy on the couple of road trips we used it on. We used 1/2 of a 14 gallon tank (OK a bit more) on the Elantra over the week-end rental. I drove 287.5 miles and refilled with 8.4 gallons of regular to find that 34.2 mpg IS possible (at least) on the Elantra. While we have gotten as much as 38 mpg on the Civic it was under different conditions so I cannot directly compare the two. I have a feeling however that the Civic has the edge here though.
    Summary: I did not miss the Civic and could easily drive an Elantra instead. Of course I would desire an upgrade for a better model as is my custom when buying cars. I did not find the Elantra to be dramatically inferior to our Civic. To the contrary, I found it to be superior in a variety of areas. I didn't even touch on some standard features the Elantra has not available in the Civic...sure do miss those heated mirrors for instance. Finally, although the Elantra can be regarded as more "conventional" in both exterior and interior design there is no reason not to consider one if you are looking at this class car. I hope this was helpful to someone. Long winded I know but what comparison isn't?
  • mrcellusmrcellus Member Posts: 52
    Very, very helpful my friend. I am still in the market for a 2007 Elantra SE hopefully before November. Thanks again for the report.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Please keep in mind that we have had various problems with our Civic. None were major and Honda has issued service bulletins (a lot of them) to correct most of them BUT a lot of owners of 2006/07's have experienced them. MOST un-Honda like and I am not happy. I deliberately neglected to mention quality in my post because I didn't want to color that particular comparison. However, it is something that should be considered if a Civic is also in the hunt. Everyone here who loves Honda has said maybe the 2008 Civics finally will be properly built...maybe.
  • steve333steve333 Member Posts: 201
    Toyota and Honda have been slipping in reliability the last few years, especially Toyota.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Edmunds.com has first drives of the 2008 Focus and Astra on their main page. Looks like both are better than the cars they replaced, and Edmunds says the Astra is the best small GM car ever sold in America. I suppose that could be considered "faint praise", but it's a positive sign for GM.

    The Focus has apparently lost its sporty handling and has become softer, and also quieter, and has an updated interior and exterior. The signature feature on the new Focus appears to be Sync. Oh, and blue accent lighting in cup holders ala Scion. The target market is pretty clear.

    The Focus coupe looks better to me than the sedan and could be a good buy if Ford has updated the safety along wiht everything else. The Astra five-door starts at $16k with a lot of equipment (ABS, ESC, 16" wheels etc.).

    Will they be good enough to compete with the Civic, Elantra, Lancer, Rabbit, Sentra et. al.? And of course the new Corolla coming in a few months?

    Edit: I just priced out a Focus coupe with AT equipped as closely as possible to an Elantra SE (one of my favorites in this class), and the price tag is just under $18k, or a little more than the Elantra. And ESC is not available on the Focus, but standard on the Elantra SE. Not so good a deal after all. :(
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    what was your usual cruising speed for this trip?
    Thanks!
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Toyota and Honda have been slipping in reliability the last few years, especially Toyota."

    Yes they have been slipping. Their quest to sell the most has really hurt their build quality. As I have said before, they have peaked as an auto maker and now others are just as good or better. The last five years have not looked too good for this company and hopefully this will spread the wealth to others, and loosen perceptions.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    I've been off this board for several months although my 01.5 Elantra GT hatch now has 75,000 miles and is going strong. What is the latest on whether or not we will see a hatch again or will it be a wagon? Also, does anyone know if Hyundai has any plans to come out with its own version of the Rondo?

    On another matter, does the 01 hatch have a cabin air filter for the a/c and if so, how often should it be replaced? What about the fuel filter in terms of replacement?

    Thanks.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Elantra Touring, due in early 2008, will be more like a little wagon than a hatch, in that the rear end is stretched out compared to the hatch variant (which apparently we won't get). There's photos of it in the Elantra discussions.

    The '01+ Elantras have provision for a cabin air filter, but at least in the early cars of that generation, they did not come from the factory with the filter. But it's pretty easy to replace, based on what I've read in the Elantra maintenance discussion here--just need to pop out the glove box--it's behind it. I think there's photos on the replacement steps in the owner's manual, but I don't have ready access to it now.

    (You might want to ask the questions re Elantra maintenance in the Elantra discussions, you might get more responses.)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here's a surprise: the Scion xD got only "Acceptable" on the IIHS' frontal offset crash test. It's one of the few cars of any size that have been tested in recent years that did not achieve "Good" on that test. That seems incredible to me, given this is a new design and Toyotas have typically done very well on crash tests. It did get "Good" on the side crash test, however. Which leads to a question...

    Is the IIHS biased for certain manufacturers? Case in point: the xD was recently introduced. Yet the IIHS has already run both frontal and side crash tests on the car (apparently the IIHS itself did the frontal crash test; sometimes the manufacturer does it and reports the results to the IIHS.) Some other small cars, introduced over a year ago (e.g. Elantra and Sentra), have not had side crash tests yet. And we're not talking about low-volume niche cars in the case of the Elantra and Sentra. I wonder if the IIHS favors some manufacturers, such as Toyota, over others when it decides which cars to test when? :confuse:

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=622
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is interested in talking with owners of the Chevy Malibu, Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Sentra who are also parents. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, November 27, 2007 and include your city and state of residence, the model year of your vehicle and the age of your child/ren.
  • lucynethellucynethel Member Posts: 81
    I think their only "bias" is that of which car is most "popular" in sales terms? The degree of sales translates into a bigger need for data. Just a guess on my part?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That doesn't explain why the IIHS would test cars like the Honda Fit, with relatively low sales numbers, soon after introduction but has not tested (for side crash) the 2007+ Elantra and Sentra, with much higher sales, more than a year after they came out. Another example is the Altima. It is one of the top ten in sales, yet nearly a year after the latest design debuted, the IIHS still hasn't tested it for side impact. But it tested the 2008 Accord right away. It's possible Honda paid the IIHS for an earlier test on the Accord, and maybe the Fit; that is an option if an automaker wants a test earlier than the IIHS' schedule. But a year is a long time to wait for tests on cars as popular as the Elantra and Sentra, and Altima also. IMO.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    The logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you are sure that your car will pass the crash tests with flying colors, you will pay to have it tested early. If you think that your car will do poorly, you will try to cover up the anticipated poor showing as long as possible by not paying to have it done early.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The logical conclusion to what I am saying is that I think the IIHS should get off their rear ends and test new mainstream designs faster than 1+ years after they are introduced, so that buyers know the crash test results before they buy, and if there is a problem, there can be public pressure on the manufacturers to make corrections.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    I think that you place way too much emphasis on crash test results. I would guess that only a small percentage of buyers would delay purchase of a car they like if crash tests have not been performed yet. I think that it would be interesting to see the results of a poll taken of prospective car buyers or better yet of car salesmen that deal with customers on a day to day basis.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    no need to wait. I'll enter my vote now on that. It would take some early news that the vehicle I wanted to buy was not gonna pass crash tests even close for me to hold off.

    For instance, my latest rig, a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, is made by a company that's been in the bid-ness a long time making Lancer's. Why would I think they would produce an accordian-collapsing Lancer all of a sudden that might render me and my family unsafe?. Like a lot of things in life it's a common sense application.

    To me, the passion of purchase is not even there if a person is gonna hold off buying a particular vehicle because of a poor or even an average crash test result.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

This discussion has been closed.