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BMW 5-Series Lease Questions
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Comments
Dealers can mark up the money factor by .0004
So, you might see a quote anywhere from .0014 to .0018.. Anything over .0014 is extra profit for the dealer..
Also, if you are not a returning BMWFS lessee, then you must also make a security deposit, or there is a waiver bump of .00015.. With that waiver, the money factor could vary from .00155 to .00195
Hope this helps... BMW doesn't publish this information.. You have to get it from someone that knows someone... more or less...
regards,
kyfdx
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Now, what happens to the MF of 1.40 when you put additional (up to 4 more deposits)? How much does it decline each time? Presumably not by .15. By .05??
What is the impact on monthly payments?
.00155 without deposit
Each additional deposit drops the rate by .00005.. with a maximum of five additional deposits allowed for a total possible reduction of .00025
Each additional deposit would drop the payment about $4/mo. on a $50K car... Not really worth it.. But, that first deposit that drops the money factor by .00015.. that one is definitely worth it.. $12/mo. saving just for that one deposit.
regards,
kyfdx
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As to some of your questions:
I have yet to encounter a dealer in California that has offered the base MF (.0014). I think that if you really want that base rate (who wouldn't??) you have to includ that into your negotiations. Also, I don't think this has been mentioned but if you are a returning BMWFS customer, the security deposit is waived without penalizing your MF.
2006 530i residual 24/15K is 72%. 36/15K is 60%
Was offered .0014 MF with refundable deposit
They wanted $825 acquisition fee stating that $625 was just for employees (go figure)
Salesman told me that 2007 model will be available early this year starting on April. Should we be getting better deals on 2006 if we wait couple of months? Will the 2007 have higher resale value? but was told that the money factor will probably be higher?
As to your questions, I imagine if you wait a few more months on the 06, you might miss your opportunity. The MF and residual values for the 530i are really great right now, and I can't imagine them staying that way for a few more months. As for the 07, I've been quoted $1500 above invoice (invoice not posted yet). While this sounds like a good deal, the invoice might be higher than 06 and the lease terms might not be as great, as you have already mentioned.
Lets keep sharing info that way we all can get great deals.
As far as dealer experiences I had an awful time at Assael BMW over 2 years ago when they quoted 36mo and on the docs it said 48mo. Complained but you know how it is.....
As for dealer experiences: I have leased from Bevery Hills BMW--and I got a terrible deal (my fault really). I will NOT lease from BH again. Bad attitude, bad experience. I have also dealt extensively with Santa Monica BMW, and pretty much had the same experience as with BH. My best BMW experience has been at Center BMW in Van Nuys. That is where I take my car to service even though I live in Santa Monica--no attitude, very friendly.
So, I'm looking at that invoice (Kelly blue Book +$425 MACO) + $1250; $625 acquisition fee; and 1.40 money factor. This is for a car ordered to my specs, and the dealership claims 6-8 weeks.
Let me know if you want to come in on a deal, and we can both get it down to $1,000 from the $1250.
Daniel and I are certainly seeing deals better than invoice +$1500, and with 0014 MF definitely, and only $625 acquisition.
We DO NOT FEEL an ad fee should be added to invoice, and that is a sticking point.
According to the rules of this website, we can't do a group deal. But perhaps we can recommend to you where we are seeing the best deals.
Just thought I would let you know that "rockclimberla" is the guy who is e-mailing you about the deals--me! There is another Daniel on the board--but alas is not me. Anyway, I sent you a bunch of messages. Let me know tomorrow morning so I can send them off to the dealer.
We're trying to move ahead with a BMW lease -- there seem to be several dealers open to working something out, without marking up acquisition fee, money factor, or playing games with invoice amount.
MSRP 49,420(incl premium, cold weater, and auto)
price 47,200(2000 over inv)
MF .0019(he said dealer mandated, and wont go any lower)
36mo/12k mi
PMT: $646 incl tax
with 2100 on signing(650 sec dep), 646 1st mo pmt)(625aquisition fee, and 200 in misc fees)
I hear 5 series are in short supply due to new models due out soon. 2k over inv seems hi, esp with a MF of .0019, but other dealers I went to offered .0016 BUT wanted 3k over inv. Is 650/mo all in good given the scarcity of 5's(my dealer will have to get me one from another dealer) or should be able to do better?
I'd appreciate some objective advice.
Thanks, Len
QUESTION TO ANYONE: I ordered car, to be built to specs, supposedly to arrive in 6-8 weeks; Dealer says MF for 530i may drop next month, and I'll get whichever is lower, 1.4 or new MF. Does this sound possible? How do I find out if MF declines next month?
But, there is no guarantee that the residuals will stay the same.. They may decrease as well, so you have to look at both ends of the equation..
How do you find out about next month's money factor?
How did you find out about this month?
regards,
kyfdx
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If the $4 drop in payment is before sales tax, it becomes about $4.35 (with sales tax in Ca), so that's about $52 annually, or about 7.4%.
So, maybe if someone can part with multiples of $700, it's ok to get an assured 7.4% return???
Just intellectually curious....
Meanwhile, I hope my dealer is on the level that I can get a 2006 530i built to specs and delivered here in Ca in 6-8 weeks.
2 yr @ $623.03 per month
3 yr @ $640.48 per month
Do I pay $17 more a month, because it's a good lease, or save the money in the hopes that in 2 years, there will be an improved BMW to lease, and the MF and residuals will be roughly comparable? (Obviously, who can predict interest rates).
I realize I'll have to pay another acquisition fee -- $625, but $17 a month X 24 months is $408, so the het cost is about $217.
Besides, don't I get a year free for Sirius, and a year free for BMW emergency communications? A year for each of those is probably a total of $400-$500. In other words for every 2 year lease, I pay for only a year of Sirius and BMW emergency communications; but for every 3 year lease, I pay for 2 years.
Just curoius your opinion, Edmunds..
I'm looking to lease a 525i in N.Cal(Bay Area). I would like the premium and cold weather package along with auto trans.
Below is what I was quoted with a money factor of .0020. I asked for a money factor of .0017 and selling price of $44.3K and the dealer was shocked.....any comments/suggestions?
Thanks!!
36 month lease/12,000 miles=$631.03 per month, including tax, with an initial payment of $1,779.84. Residual Value=$29,276.40 plus tax.
36 month lease/15,000 miles=$709./44 per month, including tax, with an initial payment of $1,856.19. Residual Value=$28,332 plus tax.
try reading previous posts
2006 530xi 0r 530i
Automatic
Premium pkg
Winter
Navigation
Neg price?
Money factor?
Residual?
Payment range (bad deal, good deal, great deal).
Thanks for your help
So, I may still get one, but if they keep screwing around, I'll switch to another brand. BMW doesn't need me -- it has plenty of success. But I don't like to be treated like I'm dumb and will pay an inflated, marked-up interest rate because BMW lacks the integrity to state its money factor. Indeed, BMW web site would not even tell me a delivery interval to order a car (not an exact date, just an interval) so I could validate the (it turns out: inaccurate) representation of the dealer. What kind of company is this? The website evades each question that you ask it and refers you back to a BMW Center. If I found one that was straightforward, I would not go the web site.
Look, saving $50-$90 a month won't make or break me, but it's also the principle of the thing. I don't like something hidden, so the price appears one way, and it's the other way. And don't be fooled by 'family' dealerships like my local one -- they quoted fraudulent money factors-- and that's what it is -- the guy said, in effect, this is the BMW MF. But it's not, it's the dealership's MF. I consider all this fun, in a perverted way, because it's no longer the money, but the fact that, even after all these years, auto dealers have not changed, and BMW dealers are as bad as ever, and the company condones their behavior by its unwillingness to supply information to the consumer. For example, it says the MF is communicated "directly to the center." At least we have Edmunds. Thank you, Edmunds. At least I won't be taken by them or, I'll know that I'm being taken, and not be made a fool of.
Any thoughts????
Maybe you just have experienced a cheesy dealer?!? We live in a free market economy and anyone who has or can borrow the money can buy a dealership. Having said that, while adding in margin may be unpleasant, I do not believe it is "fradulent".
Perhaps if I had a built in bias that the cars are "overvalued" I might have a different perception. I find the products to be an excellent value and in fact one of the reasons lease rates are so competitive is because the resale values are exceptional.
(b) my point is that major luxury brands routinely provide loaners for warranty service beyond 1 day; BMW does NOT. That's tacky. Your dealer does it because you bought the car from him. On my past cars, I've had that courtesy extended for warranty service beyond 1 day regardless of which dealer sold me the car, because the manufacturer (Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Infiniti, Mercedes) picks it up.
2/I'm well informed about a free market economy; dealerships are not easy to come up, but it's hardly relevant. Whether it's legally fraudulent is not the issue, it is rhetorically fraudulent to tell a customer that a marked-up MP is the BMW FS MP, when it clearly is not.
3/ It's not a built-in bias. For years, BMWs have made optional equipment standard on other cars, and charged more for V6s than others for V8s. A key reason lease rates are competitive is that BMW's marketing strategy is to prop up initial prices with subsidized leases; to have a higher lease rate than sales rate; and to further prop up the resale market with certified service and resale warranties. Besides residuals, they use a money factor that is, in fact, below free market. That's why it's easier to justify leasing, rather than buying a BMW.
4/ I have arranged to lease a BMW with the official $625 acquisition fee, the base MF of 1.4, and at a sensible capitalized amount. Several dealers were straightforward. But it's clear that BMW central encourages the undisclosed markups by refusing to tell the consumer what the MF is; I'm glad I had Edmunds to clue me in.
2) BMWs have inline 6-cylinders.. not a V-6 in the bunch..
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As someone said above, trying to make money in our capitalist, free market society is not a crime. Most of us don't go online and bad-mouth our local Wal-Mart or Best Buy when they mark up merchandise 200% or more!.... Granted, the dealer shouldn't lie in doing it, but it is not "slimy" or "fraudulent" to simply make money.
As someone also said above, no bank or financial institution publishes its financing buy rates. It would be pretty dumb for a business to tell the public and make no money as a result. That is all banks... not just BMWFS. Your local bank might disclose "6.9% financing" on their website , but they are definitely making money on that (their "buy rate" might be more like 5.5% or 5.9%). Try going into your local bank and asking for their base buy rate... they'll probably just laugh you out the door.
As for ordering a car and its delivery time, it is impossible to nail down an exact date like you are requesting. There are so many factors and variables involved. First, every model has a different production schedule and build time. Second, every dealer has different allocation, so one dealer might be able to get a car into production the next day, but another might not be able to get one in for two weeks. Third, once the car arrives at the port in Germany, it needs to wait for a ship to transport it across the Atlantic. Sometimes it has to wait one day and sometimes it has to wait two weeks. It all depends on the ship schedules and availability. Fourth, shipping time is slightly variable. Sometimes it'll take 2.5 weeks to transport, sometimes 3.5 weeks. It depends on weather, ship speed, and how many stops the ship has in between Germany and the US port. Fifth, transport time from the US port to your dealership is soooo variable. If you live in South Carolina (one of the US ports is Charleston, SC), then the car will probably get to your dealer within 2 days. If you live in Texas or Missouri or something, it'll probably take a couple weeks...... As you can see, BMW trying to tell you the exact date a car will arrive is impossible. That's why they give you an approximate range. That's not a "scheme"... It's the truth.
b/ I don't care how much money take make; my gripe is passing off their marked-up acquisitio nfee and MF as fixed by BMW FS.
c/ Of course, I don't expect a bank to disclose its cost of money, although Fed Reserve Board discount rates, overnight rates avings rates are all published. But who cares about their cost or profit? Not I, if I'm borrowing money from them. I only care about what I pay them. The issue hee is that people BELIEVE (and dealers I dealt with encouraged me to believe) they are paying an official BMW FS rate, when it is, in fact, marked up.
d/ Of course, I don't expect a precise date on delivery. I'm well aware of all the variables you cite. But barring a shipping strike, etc., I merely wanted a WINDOW (between x time and y time). It turns out I was given the WRONG delivery window between by the dealer. For example, BMW quotes a clear window to order a car for European delivery, and a clear window when it's shipped back. So, with me, they wre just being evasive, as on every question I asked BMW.
...I will get the car for performance, and because of the BMW subsidized lease, which makes it competitive. And I will hope for limited or no warranty repairs that exceed one day, since BMW, AS A COMPANY, does not provide free loaners.
And when I told my dealer that the rate he had in his estimate was .02 higher than what BMWFS told me, he confirm and immediately matched the BMWFS rate.
BTW, no car company providers loaner cars. None! It is purely the dealer. You local Ford dealer is not owned by Ford, even if it is licensed to sell Ford. A manufacturer cannot dictate what the dealer can and cannot do, except to yank their license. Otherwise, its called monopolistic collusion.
Again, all sounds pretty much like a poor dealership experience to me.
And since you asked, I live NW of Chicago.
"A manufacturer may not own, operate, or control a dealership, including one primarily engaged in performing warranty work. However, a manufacturer-owned dealership is permissible:
< While it is being sold under a bona fide contract or purchase option to the operator of the dealership; or
< For up to two years during the transition from one owner or operator to another. A court may extend the two-year period for an additional year if the manufacturer proves good cause for the extension.
A manufacturer may not sell a new vehicle directly to a retail customer other than a nonprofit organization or a government agency. However, a manufacturer may provide information to consumers for marketing purposes, and may establish a program to sell or offer new vehicles through its dealers.
2/ Wrong about other car companies. My past dealers told me that the company reimbured them for the loaners -- including rental cars, when warranty work went beyond a day.
I guess I just don't see how any of your complaints reflect at all on BMW as a car company or BMWFS as a finance company.
To each their own opinion though ...
I can almost guarantee that most loans that we all have ever taken out (whether it be auto, home, personal, etc) were marked up so that someone made money. Did they all come out and say, "Hey, we're marking up this rate so we can make some extra profit." ?? Of course not... They don't have to, as it is a business's prerogative to make money. After all, it is a business.
And this goes far beyond just BMWFS. No financial institution or dealer is required to give anyone the base MF and they aren't required to tell you that they're making money, so why shouldn't they at least try to make some money. If they charged more than their absolute bottom line zero profit invoice price on the car, would they have to explicitly tell you that they weren't giving that to you? This is, after all, a capitalist free market country.
Rather, it is with the dealer telling me they are not making it up, when the dealer is.
Of course, it's the dealer's prorogative to make money.
But on leases, we've come a long way from when open-end leases, and form when you shopped for different leasing companies and banks. I spoke to several people who had the same misunderstanding as I, a misunderstanding fostered by BMW FS.
As far as I'm concerned, they can charge whatever they want, for acquisition fee, or MF, and I don't care if they charge more than MSRP is someone wants to pay. You guys just don't get that my beef is with the deception and, even when questioned, not responding accurately.
So, stop framing this as an attack on free markets, capitalism, profits, entrepreneurship, or the cost of money.
Part of the free market is the ability to be informed -- and, for me, Edmunds performed that role. It's not the dealer's role to inform me of his profit, but I certainly do not have to condone his telling me something that is not so.
As I said in my prior post, I don't begrudge anyone --dealer, finance company, bank, mortgage lender, charging more in interest than they pay for the money. Obviously.
Nor should a financial institution or the dealer be REQUIRED to give their cost of money. Nor did I ever say that. I did feel that BMW FS should be open about it, and I did say that they were not, for a reason, to give their dealers an extra profit center. And, for you experts on capitalism and money and banking, let me remind you that the dealers are NOT loaning you their money, or loaning you anyone's money. They assume zero risk. It is BMW FS money. So, I don't think the comparisons are appropriate. They are not in the loan business, but in the car business. If they want to make their money by marking up BMW money, that's fine with me. Just don't tell me they are not marking it up, and this is THE BMW FS rate. It's not. Or, as one person on this website pointed out, he was told the actual BMW acquisition fee was for employees only, when obviously that's not the case, and the marked up acquisition fee was the fee. By the way, I'm not arguing dealers don't have a right to lie. But it's a free country, and I offer my observation that it's at least B.S. for those who do misrepresent -- and that is more than simply entrepreneurial salesmanship.
None of it is momentous, but I wanted to reiterate my gripe is not the free market or profit or even salesmanship. And it's the consumer's obligation, I agree, to be informed; dealer is under no obligation to fully disclose markups --just don't blatantly mislead or even lie.
I want to lease a an 530I for 36 months,Premium Pkg, Zero down 15,000/year
what is the monthly price? I live in Los Angels
Are they changing the Car next year (I do not need the car till May 06)
I nearly did that.
The 2006 and 2007 are the same, I'm told.
So far, I'm satisfied with the lease deal I made with Pacific BMW, Glendale. It says here I can't post a sales person's name, but you should deal with the Internet manager. She cannot quote you invoice yet on a 2007, nor can she quote you MF. But I think she'll give you a good deal, based on my experience.
A lease for 36 month with 0 down and 12,000 or 15,000 miles a year.
I want to be prepared with a number so I know what to expect!
I am looking for 530I with premium package no GPS.....
I do not believe we can do a lot with MF what really counts at the end of the day the monthly payment esp when you have 0 down so you can really compare prices the dealer are offering
Also wants to share my experience with everyone.
I end up buying out my BMW at the end of the lease.
Residual value 35K, buyout price 31K without CPO. ($1,800 addition for CPO)
Finance with www.penfed.com at 3.9% for 60 months.
My dealership detailed the car, performed oil change and all the safety checks.