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TOYOTA TACOMA vs FORD RANGER- Part XI

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Comments

  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    I will go back and look it up,

    Spoog we are on a different page, you are referring to 4wheeler 4x4 of the year, I'm refering to motor trend where the Chevy was fullsize of the year while the Tundra won it last year,I do not know who was compact of this year or last year.
    In Vinces defense you say in the Ranger problems post, there are more than in the Toyota's section,I think you're forgetting to multiply by 2 on the Taco's seeing there outsold by 2 to 1 so far, and by the end of the year it will be about 4 to 1 like it is every year.
    Spoog I will read read your article after I finish reading my weekly subscription of the national enquirer.
  • rickc5rickc5 Member Posts: 378
    is number 1700. From now on, please make ALL your posts as good as 1700. It should be your new standard. Anything more is more than we want to see.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    going wheeling this weekend if you want to go, atleast one other Ranger.


    I lost you home phone when my wife cleaned house.


    Interested? Just down to Castle Rock but am planning a Ranger run on Mosquito Pass in the near future, elevation 13,182, highest mountain pass in North and South America!


    http://www.colomar.com/ColoradoPlaces/mospass2.jpg


    Interested?

  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Don't forget that in the "ranger problems" posts, there have been many people, myself and a certain toyota owner as well, posting in there offering suggestions and advice. Don't count advice or suggestions as problems.

    Steelman--->I'll state the facts. Toyota has the reputation for fewer defects. And I'll restate a previous post of mine saying that Value is a derivative function of Quality over price(Quality/Price) or even (Quality*Quantity/Price). I and the Fords I know must just be the cream of the crop, because they don't hold up to the rule Toyota's are better. So if you want a truck that statistically has less problems, go get a Tacoma and spend your bucks(2-3 thousand more, plus 1-2 thousand more in interest too). If you want a truck to give you much more for the money, and is JUST below toyota in quality, then Ford Ranger is the answer. You will save yourself a bundle immediately and years to come, if you get a Ranger.

    "quality, quality, quality midnightstang...... thats all that needs to be said. Toyota = better quality" That's good, and I agree, although not to the extent that you may think. This seems to be the only thing that is really brought up recently, and maybe that's all you have. Nobody seems to have replied about carpoint's used truck quality. Seems to me Ranger is on par, and in the early 90's (as in 10 year old trucks) holding up better and with much less financial strain than Toyota "pickup"/tacoma.

    From our own backyard of Edmunds:
    "Generally, we like the Tacoma, but question the value it represents." I wholeheartedly agree.

    Value: An amount, as of goods, services, or money, considered to be a fair and suitable equivalent for something else; A principle, standard, or quality considered worthwhile or desirable:

    In other words, Nice truck, but the price tag does NOT equate how much nicer it is.

    That's as close as you're gonna get it, steelman, have a nice day.

    I must of missed what spoog said, because his post appears blank now... ? Will some kind gent give me a idea of what went on? Too bad I missed it... or maybe it's a good thing.

    smc--->Decals? We don't need no stinking decals... :) Instead of limiting yourself to a 4x4 4dr xlt, why not go with the edge??? From what I can readily see the XLT has Color coded visors, speed sensitive wipers, and a different exterior. You can get a 4dr 4x4, edge with manual or automatic(1000 more) 5 speed with 4.10's and a 4.0l all for $21525 MSRP including $2000 incentive(. Next time try FordDirect.com in addition to Ford.com's build your own vehicle. Of course if you order invoice, you have even more options that websites will never show... I'm just not sure of what exactly is the difference between basic/plus/off-road and appearance packages. I do know the edge trucks have most of the 4x4 and off-road components, even on 4x2.

    barlitz--->enquiring minds want to know! lol...
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Or anybody for that matter if you're interested in a Ford, join eaa and you'll get the x- plan price. eaa is $40.00 a year. When I was shopping for 2001 lightning somebody told me about the x-plan. before x-plan $32610 silver lightning w/ tonneau. After x-plan $ 28790.00 out the door.I think it comes out to 4% below dealer invoice, with current rebate and special financing you can get a great deal right now. I'm still thinking about lightning, but with so many new vehicles coming each year its hard to chose and I'm waiting to see what happens with the inline 6 that GM came out with this year. There's a rumor that they'll be a new syclone and typhoon with the inline6 and twin turbos. Probably cost a small fortune though.
  • 1busman1busman Member Posts: 33
    I bought the xlt instead of the Edge because I wanted the rugs and better quality cloth interior. The rubber floor covering is ok if you plan on going out into the mud, snow etc. I would rather just put in some rubber mats when I need them. The Off-Road Package includes skid plates for one, but I don't recall the other differences. Also if you look at the edge and the xlt, the price difference is only a couple of hundred dollars. By the way mine runs great.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Check it out gang! The ultimate 4x4 Comparison is u pat Fourwheeler.com!

    Click on Trucks and events, then road tests.

    You will also find the 2001 pickup of the year competition there.

    Needless to say, the Tacoma wins both competitions rather soudly.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    spoog:
    Ok for four wheeler(lower case has a meaning) but Consumer Reports again rates the Tacoma 3rd in it's review, just ahead of the S-10. . .

    spoog, I can out post you 2-3 to 1 for articles that favor Ranger and all you can post from is four wheeler. I will say this, at least the latest four wheeler review was a bit less biased than that 1998 one you refer to so often.

    The verdict is in, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Carpoint, J. D. Powers, and even four wheeler select the Ranger much more often than the Tacoma.

    stang:
    You forgot to mention the Edmunds quote, when comparing the Tacoma, to "...buy the Ranger and a Waverunner with the money you save..."

    smc:
    Well, will not dispute your facts, but consider this. You question options or lack there of on Ranger? Well, most things that are options on the Tacoma are Standard on Ranger. There are very few options to be had, they are not needed. Now a Tacoma you need to "...option up..." to get a tachometer on a 4X4. Thats rather stupid as it is one of the more important gages I look at while 4 wheeling to set my speed close to the max torque curve of the engine.

    In regard to price, the ones you quote are out the window. Dealers here in Denver very often discout the Rangers. When I paid $17.3K the sticker was around $20.5K. Could have gotten it for 16.3 K but gave up the 1K for 2.9% finance charge, it was more to my advantage.

    You can buy a nice Ranger XLT 4X4 4.0L all day long in Denver for right around $20K or less.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    up for tomorrow afternoon? Would love to see how the Ranger works against an Explorer.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\up for tomorrow afternoon? Would love to see how the Ranger works against an Explorer. \\

    Neither vehicle is properly built for offroad use.They both flounder in off-trail situations.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\The verdict is in, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Carpoint, J. D. Powers, and even four wheeler select the Ranger much more often than the Tacoma\\

    This is incorrect. The Tacoma smokes the Ford trucks in the JD powers long term 5 year reliability study....

    As for Edmunds, they like the price of the Ranger...thats it.

    " If buying a used ranger, take it for a very,very long test drive....."
    -Edmunds.com

    "The ranger rattled like a rattlesnake offroad"
    -Edmunds.com

    In fact Cspounser- The source that really matters, the one that actually tests 4x4's like they are supposed to be tested picks the Tacoma time and time again, Evenn over a hummer, range rover and Wrangler. What does that tell you? A whol heck of alot.

    And from the opening line of the ultimate 4x4 comparison-

    " We chose these trucks because they are the best of the best stock offroaders. In all these years of driving trucks, we know what works offroad and what doesn't. If your choice isn't in here, it simply means it wasn't good enough, so deal with it"

    -www.fourwheeler.com
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    is going to split this topic again?? Way over the 500 posts..
    I don't know what these Toyota owners don't understand?? I have already stated over and over and over again, Yes the Toyota does have a SLIGHT reliability edge. Just not this huge gap they want potential buyers to believe. Anyone who does their homework will see the Ranger is a reliable, quality built truck.
    Price/value. The Ranger offers more value than the Tacoma. Option for option the Ranger is less. What do you say to a person who purchases a Ranger for 20K and last 150,000 miles, and to a person who purchases a Tacoma for 23K and it also lasts 150,000 miles? Who got the better value? I know, I'm going to get the typical Toyota response.. "The Ford won't last 150,000 miles"... You really need to get out on the net to more Ranger sites, there are plenty of Rangers out there with 100K, 200K and even 300K! miles on them..
    Now with the new SOHC 4.0 the Ranger will just plain out power a Tacoma.. live with it YOTA BOY..
    Yota, reminds me of a small green creature...
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    Is really hung up on the offroad thing, for some reason its the best thing since sliced bread.I've visisted many offroad sites online, where there are many kinds of trucks all going the same places,rangers, toyotas,jeeps ,s-10's. Some modified some not. Spoog you,ve got the Aug issue of 4 wheeler because you quoted a line from it. did you happen to read the article where the TRD tundra couldn't even make it to the starting line on the mud course. You're taco may beat some trucks in crawling but in the mud course your toast.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    A couple of photos I found, http://www.bestweb.net/~rogerd/RustNeverSleptHere.jpg

                                             http://www.bestweb.net/~rogerd/MyZR2GotMudBigTime-2.jpg
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    if that first pic was a Toyota, more than likely it was an option for the rust and articulation aid flares. . .
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    have a couple of trails to do with another ranger...

    Sure would be nice to see a Tacoma in the field instead of parked, with and ATV trailer.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    " The ranger rattles like a rattlensake offroad"

    -edmunds.com

    " if your buying a used ranger, take it for a very,very long test drive"

    - edmunds.com

    " We would like to see Ford build a vehicle that is solid in one area. Ford builds their trucks to be jacks of all trades, but masters of none"

    -edmunds.com
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Cspounser-

    If you head on over to West of the Divide(the san juans) where people have money(and the trout streams are mucb better), you'll notice a few more Tacoma's on the trail.
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Your JD powers site quote isn't valid. 1st it shows problems by brand only. Where it does specify actual models, It does say Toyota Pickup for compact truck, but carpoint contradicts these figures as the pickup was better than ranger.
    The rattlesnake rattles and very long test drive quotes are so tired, it's silly that you post them again. You expect a truck to go off-road with zero sounds other than the exhaust note? You expect any person to take any used truck, particularly off-road 4x4's without taking them for a long test drive?
    "As for Edmunds, they like the price of the Ranger...thats it." I guess that's why the Ranger was edmund's Most Wanted in 2000 and 2001. "Fun to drive, sharp looking and well built, the Ranger delivers a solid compact-pickup experience"

    "\\up for tomorrow afternoon? Would love to see how the Ranger works against an Explorer. \\
    Neither vehicle is properly built for offroad use.They both flounder in off-trail situations. "

    Where's your truck and the pictures of it handling 10,000 feet in altitude and off-road situations. Pay attention to a previous post of barlitz, depicting the possible modifications that will take you where a Tacoma can't and still beat the price.

    And go buy a new magazine. I'd suggest Highlights.
  • eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    Are you guys sure? I'd sure love to see a link to that article. It's hard for me to believe the Toyota was better off road than a purpose-built military vehicle with a stronger engine, twice the ground clearance, a beefier drive train, 4 wheel independent suspension, a central tire deflation system, 6 inch taller tires, and almost no drivetrain parts hanging below the axles. Maybe the Toyota beat the Hummer by being the best all-around off/on road vehicle, which is to be expected since the Hummer makes no compromises for on-road drivability. But I have trouble with the idea that the Tacoma out-did a Hummer in the rough stuff.

    ed
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    That way I would not have gotten some body damage on the trails I ran today. Well at least the left rocker panel now matches the right!


    I have been to the San Juans, saw no Tacomas. Saw a Durango, S1500, three jeeps, an F150 and a road grader. Remember, Cinnamon Pass, Wheeler Geological area and Teluride. Sorry did see a shiny new Tacoma in Teluride. A bit too steep in price that area is!.


    BTW, is it just envy that Illinois has basically no National Forests. Is that why share the opinion that all other states should lock away their national forests?


    I like this quote from Edmunds better:


    ". Is the promise of Toyota reliability worth five grand? We don't think so. Give us the Ranger and the extra $5,000. We'll put the money toward the purchase of a Wave Runner, thank you."

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/road test/44333/article.html


    Also:Top 5 for July

    Top 5 Vehicles that Make Us Proud to be Americans

    Two are Fords!

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top5/46801/article.html


    And (and I will include the Tacoma comment):

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/46003/article.html


    "When equipped with the 4.0-liter engine and five-speed manual transmission, the Ford Ranger has a slight edge over its competitors. If interior comfort and refinement are what you are after, then the Ranger is a little lacking when compared to the Toyota Tacoma. But if you're a little light on cash, the Ranger makes a good choice, coming in well-equipped for a little more than $20,000. Overall, Ford did an admirable job of updating what is certainly the oldest basic design in the class. It has an attractive package that should continue to please the Ranger faithful, but also attract future owners to the blue oval dealerships."


    "But if you're a little light on cash, the Ranger makes a good choice, coming in well-equipped for a little more than $20,000."

  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\Are you guys sure? I'd sure love to see a link to that article. It's hard for me to believe the Toyota was better off road than a purpose-built military vehicle with a stronger engine, twice the ground clearance, a beefier drive train, 4 wheel independent suspension, a central tire deflation system, 6 inch taller tires, and almost no drivetrain parts hanging below the axles. \\

    Yep.

    www.fourwheeler.com

    Then click trucks and events, then click road tests. Look for the Ultimate 4x4 Comparison. It's all there in writing. In fact, the Tacoma even outperformed the Hummer in sand dune and high speed offroading......

    Great pics in there!

    \\Maybe the Toyota beat the Hummer by being the best all-around off/on road vehicle, which is to be expected since the Hummer makes no compromises for on-road drivability. But I have trouble with the idea that the Tacoma out-did a Hummer in the rough stuff.\\

    Well, it did. The Tacoma TRD is an insanely capable 4x4.
  • eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    Didn't seem to be about which vehicle got stuck or hung up the least or which truck traversed the toughest terrain most easily. Though they proclaimed they weren't testing for car-like attributes, seemed like they rated the trucks based on which one could go barreling through that one rutted trail at the highest speed with the smoothest ride.

    They said things about the Hummer like "Went over everything we threw at it." I saw no such phrases in the section on the Tacoma. I have a feeling they didn't put the Hummer first mainly becasue they knew everyone expected that and it wouldn't have sold as many rags as a suprise ending.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Think of all the conspiracy theories you want, but the testers picked the Tacoma TRD, and there were sections where the TRD outperformed the Hummer offroad.
  • barlitzbarlitz Member Posts: 752
    That is only the opinion of a magazine, I prefer to go with the opinion of average citizans who year after year buy more rangers,dakotas and s-10's than the tacoma, isn't that where it counts!, Magazine writers can be paid off by manufacturers but how can you pay off over a million customers every year. I think its a joke and I'm sure those writers got a good chunk of money. Long live the average American Citizan,, Hip Hip Hooray, Hip Hip Hooray.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    With the new message board software that we have now (since December 2000), there is no longer a need for us to make a discussion topic read-only and start a new section. In the past, that had to be done because the previous message board software could be a bit unstable past 500 posts.

    Happy Canada day! image

    Hope this helps!

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

    P.S. Hi J ;-)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    about the 500 post limit. Thanks Drew...
    Anyone who actually believe a Tacoma can beat a Hummer offroad, I have a big red bridge to sell you.. nice bay view also...
    Noway can the Tacoma articulate like a Hummer. I belive its just a best overall, meaning around town also. Where is the Ranger also in this comparison?
    The wife is really pushing for a mini-SUV. My Rangers days are numbered... :-(
  • smc13smc13 Member Posts: 52
    Vince, I feel sorry for you. Tell your wife that your truck is better. Tell her a mini-suv is smaller, has less cargo capacity, and it's a mini-suv for pete's sake! That's three strikes, it's out. Heck, a mini-suv is just about as bad as buying a mini van.

    Steve Cohen
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    \\Noway can the Tacoma articulate like a Hummer. I belive its just a best overall, meaning around town also. Where is the Ranger also in this comparison?\\

    " If your vehicle isnt in this list, it didn't make the cut. We here at fourwheeler have been testing offroaders for years and years, so we know what works offroad and what doesn't. IF your 4x4 isnt in this list, deal with it"

    -fourwheeler.com
  • eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    Except that the test didn't seem to me to be about finding the most unbeatable off-road machine. They all but admitted that was the Hummer, but it didn't win.

    They said they were not testing these SUV's for car-like attributes like all those OTHER magazines, and yet the main focus of the test seemed to be to see which vehicle was best at taking a particular trail at high speeds while having a ride that was least punishing to the occupants. And maybe I'm wrong, but I've always been told that very little off roading occurs at mroe than 15-20 mph, if even that fast.

    Every magazine has its own biases, agendas, and inconsistencies. Take them all with a grain of salt.
  • frey44frey44 Member Posts: 230
    by the way, thanks for your USN service..

    my Ranger still shudders and shakes. i am taking it this week to a joint and clutch outfit to have them actually take the drive shaft off and see if it is true, and if it is balanced. if it IS, i am selling the truck. because if the driveshaft is OK, i am basically screwed...i.e. it must be the engine-mounts-resonance problem [most likely a desgin problem with the big 4.0 shaker motor]. i wnet to an incredible hassle to get 4 new Michelin LTX m/s tires installed, and balnced TWICE. they are ROUND and balanced to zero. i am about to give up. i am planning to buy a Tundra 2x4, V8. i am done with small trucks. i really like the F 150, but won't buy another Ford from my local dealer. it's a shame; i still very much like the features of the Ranger with the 4 door cab and 5 speed auto tranny. the quality simply sucks. i am permanently sticking with
    Japanese-American brands from now on: Honda, Toyota, or Nissan..(instead of Canadian-Mexican-American-German-Brazilian Ford).
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Thanks for the comment.

    I have seen one other post recently that point to a bad yoke causing vibration starting and stopping.
    But I really think it is your drive shaft or, a long shot, a bad differential or transfer case.

    You really need to contact the Ford Zone manager about this issue. Your dealer seems to be doing nothing. You would be surpirsed what happens when the Zone rep pays a visit to the dealer. I did that once to the...

    TOYOTA REAGIONAL MANAGER...

    when I was having serious problems with my...

    TOYOTA TRUCK...

    and was getting the run around from my dealer. Injectors were fouling out every thousand miles and the truck ran badly. I got reimbursed for rental cars, the truck was detailed for me and recieved a written appology from the dealer.

    Did not matter, the truck died at 40-50K miles anyway, engine shot, tranny shot...
    So beware Toyota owners/potential buyers, they are good vehicles. but not that good. And when you get a bad one, the dealer will give you the runaround about how YOU, not the vehicle is at fault.
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    I know you may not believe it, but I've seen Hummers in action and they aren't that great. We have a contest here in Norther New England every year called "Stump the Hummer" where the local National Guard Battalion pits their Hummers against local people who enter their own personal vehicles. The contest consists of a really mean obstacle course with logs, mud, hill climb, rock climb, sand pit, tire pit, etc. In general, the Hummers suck! I know, I wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes. Last year almost every Hummer (I believe that 4 of them ran the course) died on the course or had a major breakdown. The winner of the contest was actually a Jeep wrangler that a local kid had really fixed up nice. Anyway, my point being that I honestly believe that the Tacoma is better than the Hummer when it comes to off roading. The hummer is just way to heavy with way to much wheel base to go through lots of crazy off road obstacles. Makes you wonder why the US government pays to much for vehicles with such little versatility. I think they should go back to Jeeps. Take care and I'll see you in the middle of the woods......... Steelman.
  • issisteelmanissisteelman Member Posts: 124
    It is nice to see you are honest, midnightstang. You did admit that Toyota Tacomas do have a reliability edge. And although you say this edge is small, I tend to disagree (we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one). I am pleased that your fervent love for Rangers hasn't clouded your perception of reality. Now, I wonder if Vince8 can step up to the plate and admit it as well. As far as "Value" goes, there are obviously some consumers (including myself) who see enough "Value" in Toyotas reliability (and quality) to spend the extra $$ to buy a Tacoma instead of a Ranger. I know, Ranger's outsell Tacomas 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 or whatever (I really don't care), but each individual's definition of value is different. And, in my case, I believe that a Tacoma is a better "value" than a Ranger.(again, we'll just have to agree to disagree, once again). See you in the sticks....... Steelman.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I have admitted the Tacoma has a SLIGHT edge in reliabitliy. Not this huge gap folks like you like to tell people who are in the market for a compact truck. I have given you two sites that show this, that your Tacoma does NOT have a huge quality/reliability gap you want so badly to believe. Get around the net a bit. There are plenty of disgruntled Toyota/Honda and Nissan owners out here. I don't know what magic potion you feel Toyota has over a Ranger?? Everytime I visit another chat room around the net I pop another persons "Toyota is god" bubble. They just buy the Tacoma because a friend said so. Not even doing the homework. I can go anywhere you can, pull, haul, tow.. and I spent thousands less.. Value for your hard earned dollar is where Toyota has lost its way. They used to have BOTH a price advantage and a quality advantage.. Now the price advantage is way gone, and the quality advantage.. minimal at best.
    Yes a mini-SUV.. I'm doomed.... Unless I can talk her into a Jeep Liberty...:-))
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    maybe 3-6 inches, running 31's...I could see that vince. . .

    Steelman....I did not see you in the woods this weekend as I was modifying my left rocker panel on a trail bump. . .But I saw some darn nice views of the Platte River valley from maybe 9,000 ft up in elevation. . .
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Rampart Range Road

    CO

    http://www.4x4trails.net/

    search on Rampart you get this


    Access: It is actually easier to access these roads from County Road 38. From Sedalia, head south on 67 for about a half mile and then turn south on 105. Go south on 105 for several miles (5 or 6? I’ve never clocked it). County Road 38 goes off to the west and should be fairly obvious. After a couple miles the road begins to climb. Near the top of the hill you will pass Shamballah-Ashrama (I think it’s some kind of retreat center. As you crest the hill make a left turn (I can’t remember the road name). You will descend steeply through a residential area. At the bottom of the hill go around the private bridge and through the creek. As you come up out of the creek bear to the left and up the road marked “no maintenance: enter at your own risk” (or something like that). The first half mile or so of this road is on private property so be respectful of the owners. You eventually come out on Dakan Road (FS 563). This road is pretty easy but some of the side roads and spurs can be a little more interesting. Dakan Road winds its way generally south for quite a ways, eventually coming out on Rampart Range Road a couple miles south of Jackson Creek Campground.


    If you stay on County Road 38 instead of turning left at the top of the hill you end up on the Jackson Creek Road (FS 502) which connects to Rampart Range Road via FS 507. The maps also show 502 following the creek all the way south past the Devil’s Head to the Jackson Creek Campground but I believe a small parcel of private land has closed this connection.


    A little over half way down the Dakan Road (as described above) you encounter FS 503 going off to the west. This is Watson Park Road and it connects over to the southern part of the Jackson Creek Road near Jackson Creek campground. There are some side roads and a significant spur off of 503 which I have not tried but I’ve heard can be mildly challenging.


    If you turn right on Rampart Range Road when you come off of Dakan Road (I always think of it as north because you’re going back towards Denver but you’re actually going southwest on that part of the winding road) in about a quarter mile FS 348 goes off to the left. (If you’re coming south on Rampart Range Road it’s a right turn about 2 miles past the Jackson Creek Road.) This is Long Hollow Road and it connects to a whole network of roads which eventually lead to highway 67 a little south of Westcreek.


    All of these roads probably rate between 2 and 4 a few of the harder spurs may get up to 5. Good maps for this area are the Pike National Forest map and Trails Illustrated 135: Deckers/Rampart Range. There is also some good information in the CA4WDCI Trail Book #2

  • smc13smc13 Member Posts: 52
    You don't want a liberty...you want a RAV4. First of all, its a Toyota so it is more reliable! Also, I am sure spoog can point you to an article detailing how the RAV4 beat the Hummer off road. And isn't the new one really good looking...especially with the TRD decals. :-)
  • smgillessmgilles Member Posts: 252
    Careful you are playing with fire:)
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    There are no unhappy Toyota owners Vince. You know that but can't come to terms with it. If you check out the Cal Tech web site you'll see that they've calculated the odds of a problem in a Tacoma to be close to impossible. You have more of a chance finding Big foot than having a Tacoma problem. The only bad Tacoma posts anywhere on the net are from Ranger and S10 owners and simply lies! No one worships Rangers so you're just jealous.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    allknowing: Nice to see you stir the pot a bit.. :) gotta like the bigfoot comment..

    steelman:
    The military prefers the hum-vee mainly because of its versatility. The ability to handle off-road conditions is only one requirement. Other requirements are
    - use as a troop transport
    - use as a weapons platform, (for various size weapons)
    - support for many body types,(everything from an enclosed SUV like body use for medical transport, to a truck like body with ability to haul heavy loads.)
    - I'm sure there are dozens of other military specific requirments as well..

    Everyone in the military I've worked with who's had experience with both the Jeep and Hum-vee platform has confirmed the hum-vee is a much better choice..

    spoog:
    The 4x4 magazine you tout basically chose the Tacoma for 2 reasons:
    a. They judge off road ability based on the comfort to go very fast over rough terrain..

    b. It was the only truck that from the showroom floor has an option for a manual rear diff locker, which to the hard core off-road folks is an absolute necessity to have in an off-road vehicle..

    So it is clear that the Tacoma is a very capable off-road vehicle.. That doesn't make it versatile or more reliable.. For the same end amount money as one spends on a Tacoma, the Ranger can be purchased and easily modified to just as capable for the off road. (new shocks, tires and rear locker).
    Still an advantage for the Toyota folks because some folks only like factory options, but is that a concern to the hard core off-road community?
  • eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    I'm assuming this was a joke. Don't make me pull a spoog on you guys and start posting snippits from the Tacoma problem room in Edmunds or Tacoma and Tundra posts from Tundrasolutions.com...the place where Toyotas owners go for advice about their problems because they are too ashamed to admit them to domestic owners after all their years of bragging on truck and 4X4 sites about how Toyotas never break.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    An off-road machine is built, not bought.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Trust me Toyota's break. Lots on my early 80s pickup.
    Now the Celica's run good but when they break, they are expensive to fix. More than likely the same for Tacoma.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I have to agree with you, and I'm sure Vince would have to agree, that the Toyota RAV4 is a better "VALUE" than the Ford Ranger. Not only do you get "slightly" better quality with the Toyota, but from the money you save you can buy every 4X4 option that was ever invented. Everyone knows that the off-road Ranger is only a gimmick and that the RAV4 is just as good or better if you change the shocks and tires.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    eharri3 - Never seen a confirmed case of a Tacoma problem. It's always a friend of a friend or someone that we don't know that had a problem. Kind of like the alligator in the sewer rumors.

    CP -" An off-road machine is built, not bought". You can buy a Hummer that's pretty well equipped and will probably out perform anything you can build can't you?
  • 2k1edge4x42k1edge4x4 Member Posts: 4
    If you equip a ranger with bilsteins and better tires it will be about the same as the tacoma, just a little more jittery in the cabin. both are highly capable offroad machines, because i have a 2001 ranger 4x4 (as the name suggests) and my friend has a 2001 tacoma 4x4 TRD, and i can take on any hill or trail he can with ease, its just a little bouncier...it seems like you people all are comparing apples to the same apples, and not taking into account that BOTH will get the job done in most cases, and the choice is more in do you like the styling of which better... just my 2 cents, i guess im anti-argumentive though.... but i will say i love my ranger, and have invested the 3 grand i saved into bilsteins and flowmaster w/ more to come...
  • midnight_stangmidnight_stang Member Posts: 862
    Steelman--->To each their own, and to more the Ranger... :) Agreed, the better truck is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

    allknowing--->I guess its a form of denial that Toyota's aren't always perfect. Post 70 in Toyota Tacoma problems, by extaco, with engine and suspension problems. 2 1/2 years after purchasing and going to arbitration he won. I guess Toyota was in denial too. You also talking Rav4's and Hummers now???

    smgilles--->lol

    Everybody is so concerned about 4x4's, which I think are cool to have, but let's not forget the 4x2 platforms as well. Most consumers don't live in the sticks, and don't get above 1000 feet in elevation. Some may tow a bass board or a jetski, or just a few weekend camping trips. However the biggest consumer need is going to work or home or store, with ability to haul things once in a while. Besides that is one topic spoog cannot recycle a fourwheeler quote on.
  • frey44frey44 Member Posts: 230
    mercy ! may as well get a full size Grand Cherokee. for it's wheelbase, the Liberty is 400 pounds too heavy, and underpowered [like my 2000 Ranger !! haha !] also, the Liberty is really goofy looking.
    x also, let's hope the liberty doesn't have Chrysler's
    [oops ! Daimler's] miserable reliability record. i agree with your post ASSUMING someone wants a lightweight mosty highway 4x4. remember that the Rav4 is not a vehicle designed for the boonies; it is a soccer-mom station wagon.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    You're too serious my friend. I was intending to be sarcastic and stir up new people and/or my buddy vince, not you. The only one I can think of that might defend and agree with my "RAV4 is as good as a 4X4 Ranger" comment would be Vince8 (If he owned one). I may be wrong, and forgive me if I am, but I think vince will defend whatever he happens to own at the time almost to the death.
    I really don't think that Toyotas are perfect but, come to think of it, I really never have personally witnessed one with a problem. Hmmmm, could they really be perfect?? I don't think so, but maybe..........
This discussion has been closed.