2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Lease Questions

palciparum · May 2013

I have made all lease payments in advance. Can I just return it?! Is it that simple or am I missing something?!

kyfdx · May 2013

It's usually not that simple. Returning it prior to the last month may trigger an early termination clause. That could result in them sending the car to auction, and you being liable for extra charges.

The Car max suggestion is a good one. If they buy the car, then your obligation would be complete, and you could possibly realize some equity above the buyout amount.

gmelo83 · May 2013

really?

kyfdx · May 2013

Really...

A car lease is a contract with a bank.. They will use every opportunity to maximize their profit, if the contract isn't completed as agreed upon. Common sense has little to do with it.

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Can't hurt to contact the leasing company. Since you have already made the remaining payments, it's in their best interest too get the car back sooner. Should they accept the car early, just make sure you have something in writing indicating you have no further liability. Have to admit that I'm wondering why you would have made lease payments up front and why you would want to get into a new car now rather than wait till your lease is up.

jaxs1 · May 2013

Unless the car was over mileage, why would there be extra charges if he already made the payments? The car will be newer and since the value drops a bit every month, it would be worth more when returned early than it will be at the scheduled lease termination date. They will be able to resell or auction it for a higher price than they will be able to later. So, there is no "loss" to them for an early return.

They should actually be benefiting from an early return.

kyfdx · May 2013

All of what you say is true..

But, if you turn it in early, then you haven't completed the contract. They can invoke the early termination terms, and may do so, if it benefits them. They may have insured the residual, which they may not be able to collect on, if the lease is terminated early.

Or, they might do it for the regular reason. Because they can, and because they make more money.

eka1 · May 2013

@kyfdx
Honda does NOT have an early termination fee, as long as all the payments are made. If you think about it they rather have the car earlier cause they got all there payments and getting the car earlier then the lease ends.

huskerfan5 · May 2013

eka, you're missing kfdyx's point - there may be more to this lease than appears. kfdyx brings up the point that the leasing company may be insuring the residual, essentially hedging it's potential loss that the car may not be worth the expected residual and that by taking the car in early, it might jeopardize the insurance payment. We don't know if this is indeed the case, but he's surfacing a potential issue. As for Honda not having an early termination fee, I don't think we know at this point if it is a Honda lease.

etrout85 · May 2013

Good deal? Bad deal? Southern California BTW

So I went back and forth with the floor manager at a honda dealer for about 1 hour...

The Best LEASE offer he gave me before I left in good terms was...

Accord 2013 LX

430 due at signing that including all upfront fees (included registration fee) WHICH INCLUDED first months pay (idk what to think of this).
367 a month for another 35 months
Gotta get rid of my trade in which is a financed Jeep Liberty 2011 Sport no extras RWD w/ only 27k miles (yes horrible car, i know). This is what is holding me back but i have to get rid of it since I just want one car. 17.2k is left on the loan but the value the dealer gave me (after i negotiated its value up since they agreed its in awesome condition) is 14k. Difference of 3.2k (negative equity) is being added to the lease offer which is basically 88.89 (3200/36) additional charges to the monthly payment.

12k mile allowance a year
No additional warranty or maintenance cover.

THE OTHER DEAL:

Talked to another Honda Dealer Floor manager. This guy said same deal, but no down payment or no inception and no first months on delivery. DID NOT MENTION ANY OTHER FEES (i was stupid i should of asked).

How much is the usual registration fee.

The math they r using on me:

(23270 - 14427.4 ) / 36 = 245.63

(23270 + 14427.4 ) x 0.00089 = 33.55

3200 / 36 = 88.89

12k miles a year. No talk about deposit, idk if this is a bad idea or not. I usually maintain my cars pretty good. They r firm on the car's cost because they keep saying "lease = sticker. no1 will negotiate the car's cost on a lease".

Wanna know what you guys think. Keep in mind, I have to get rid of the Jeep so it has to be part of the deal. Fastest way is thru a dealer. I know I can maybe get more if I were to sell privately but that would be complicated because the car is on lien.

If I am wrong on anything, please correct me. If I possibly forgot to mention something, remind me

. Also I live in southern california (if it matters)

TY in advance

huskerfan5 · May 2013

The math is right but they are lying to you regarding how the sticker price is used. The first formula is fixed, it will be the same for everyone leasing the same model from the same leasing company. The $23,270 represents the MSRP. However, the first number in the second formula represents the capitalized cost of the car, not MSRP. The dealer wants you to think that this number must be equal to the MSRP but it is not. It's the amount that the dealer will be selling the car to the leasing company as well as any other fees you want included in the lease, less any downpayment you want to make.
Should the car be stolen or totalled, you will be out any money you give the dealer at inception so I always recomment putting all fees (taxes, registration, lease inception, doc fees) into the capitalized cost and never give a down payment. The largest part of the capitalized cost will be the actual cost of the car and you need to negotiate that. I suggest you go to the Prices Paid forum and research what LX's are going for in your area. Let's say they are going for $21,000, doc fees of$300, registration of $200 and Honda lease inception of $595, then the capitalized cost would be $22,095 vs the $23,070 he is using. That would save you about $30 a month.

eka1 · May 2013

@huskerfan5
I know what you are saying. But I'm speaking from experience. I had a Accord lease that I paid up 2 months early and I called Honda finance if there is any fees associated with turning it early. They said that they rather have it early cause the car is worth more today then tomorrow. If it's not Honda lease lease then I wouldn't know.

etrout85 · May 2013

Thank you for reply.

Just some questions:

According to your message, second formula: (23,270 + 14,427.4) x 0.00089 is incorrect because the bold value is suppose to represent the capitalized cost but they are using the MSRP. Just want to confirm that.

Ultimately, every dealer I am working with are being very strict regarding lowering down the deal (maybe cuz they r scared of the value of the liberty?) value.

$13,313ish total leasing cost is the best deal i can get at this moment, which translates to 368.07 a month + $63.00 upfront (excluding first months on delivery).

Basically, my question is how should I effectively negotiate the cap cost down cuz these dealer guys r playing hardball. The salespeople say "MSRP = Cap cost. u cannot talk to my manager/financing guy". How can I get to the endgame leasing contract with less cap cost? Forcefully talk to a NEW manager/ financing guy from a DIFFERENT dealer and just negotiate with him? Salespeople cannot negotiate cap cost when it comes to leasing?

Again, thanks all. Deeply, DEEPLY appreciate all the help!

huskerfan5 · May 2013

eka, I never doubted you at all concerning a Honda lease

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Yes, that part of the formula is (Capitalized Cost + Residual) x Money Factor. Frankly, I wouldn't do business with a dealer who outright lied to me about the formula but if you must, I would do a google search for the lease calculation formula, print it out and stick it under the salesman's nose. While not all parts of the capitalized cost are negotiable (such as the $595 lease inception fee charged by Honda Finance should you want that included in the cap cost,) the cost of the car certainly is. If a salesman has authority to negotiate a selling price for a purchase, he has authority to negotiate the selling price for a leased car. There is no difference. Unless Honda is offering different incentives on a lease vs a purchase, you would be able to negotiate the same price on either.
Unfortunately it always complicates matters when you have a trade.

charles_guy · May 2013

--- If a salesman has authority to negotiate a selling price for a purchase, he has authority to negotiate the selling price for a leased car ---

yes but hondas now getting strick with lease purchase price cause of turnin=0 and 1500 damage credit

not many do this and probly in three years its gone then will be damage+disposal=$$$

like toyota nissan ford and others

sittie · May 2013

Thank you for all the helpful information on this forum. I've learned a lot. We are looking to lease a 2013 Accord Coupe and have been quoted the following. I'm calculating lower lease payments than what's been quoted. I suspect it's because I haven't received a breakdown on fees. It's just hard to believe that fees would make this much difference. here are the numbers:
Negotiated purchase price $26215
MSRP $28860
Flex Cash ($500)
Down Payment ($2500)
Money factor .00089
Residual value 57%
No trade
12k mi $282
15k mi $299

I'm coming up with lease pmts of $231 on 12k and $254 on 15k. Using the numbers above (and no fees) do these figures look correct?

huskerfan5 · May 2013

etrout, I apologize but I just noticed I gave you some wrong information. The first number in the first formula is also the Cap Cost so the result of this formula will be different for everyone, just like the second formula. The MSRP only comes into play when determing the residual, in this case the $14,427. The rest of my advice doesn't change.

huskerfan5 · May 2013

charles, I disagree. Regardless of the selling price, the finance company is recouping the difference in what it paid the dealer and the expected residual in the depreciation charge. Yes, they would be earning a larger finance charge if the selling price of the car is higher, but even a $1,000 dollar difference in the cap cost would give the finance company less than $1 of higher income each month at an .00089 money factor. I'm guessing a dealer told you that to justify his lease quote. Feel free to try to convince me otherwise.

charles_guy · May 2013

thank you huskerfan5 for most civil adroit followup. jus tryin to help out here from the crv lease forum where theres no action since our lease

all i know is my area no body go below 221xx sell price on the truck with lease but with honda .9 finance sale price was lower. go figure. tried and tried and tried but a no go so i guess different areas

anyway after reading through these many honda forums back some 3+years seems buy price cheaper than lease price tho crv lease 00135/00145mf is crap. honda/acura do take a hit with damage at turnin compared to nissan and ford et al read about sgs on the web and you'll see what i mean

anyways looked to make sure residuals were exact same at 64%/15920 in case we buy later. aware of sell price but total 36mos cost is key for lease way i see it accord/civic/crv/ferarri/porsche etc. with constant residual jus look at total cost for 3 years. cheapest dealer wins on lease with same vehicle/residual

why care bout sell price for lease when 36mos total cost with same residual is key comparing dealers in a region

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi Jim. The dealer invoice price of this car is $28,292. So the capitalized cost of $28,811 that you were quoted is only $500 over invoice, which isn't bad. Having said that, I also would want to know why the cap cost isn't $28,311 if I was quoted this deal. I would also question what the $652 "Total Add on" and $1,295 in "Dealer/State Fees" include.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

You're very welcome badger1994.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi pandt. Honda Finance's May buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 Accord Coupe EX-L V6 with Navigation and 15,000 miles per year are .00089 and 53% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hi bada_bing. Honda Finance's May buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 2013 Accord Sedan Sport with 12,000 miles per year are .00089 and 59% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Charles, in your case, you understand that the selling price of the car is the largest factor in determining the lease amount so if you did a lease deal based on the lowest monthly payment, I think you would have an idea what the cap cost was but many people do not understand leasing.
Here's an example of what I mean. Let's say an Accord is advertised at three different dealers at the invoice price of $25K which is $3K under MSRP but Pete wants to lease an Accord. He visits the three dealers, not understanding the components and formula that results in the monthly lease payment. Two give him a monthly payment of $350 and the third gives him a payment of $300. The $300 is within his budget so he happily signs the deal. However, if he knew the formula and asked for the money factor and residual and plugged it into a calculator, the cap cost (let's assume there are no fees in this example) would come out to be $28K, the MSRP. Pete may be happy but the dealer is even happier. I would have put it into my calculator and told the dealer, hey, you're advertising to sell the car at invoice but it looks like you are using MSRP as the cost of the car in the lease. He would mutter to himself that I got him and I would walk out with a lease amount about $90 less than Pete's.
When I shop around for a lease, I get the money factor, residual, and my estimates for doc, registration, taxes and lease inception fees. I add the selling price based on a price that I would consider a good deal and then I calculate the lease payment. Once I have that number, I can shop that amount around knowing that every $10 difference is equivalent to a $333 difference in the cost of the car.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Hey sanman1. The residual value for a lease of this car with 15,000 miles per year would be 2% lower than the residual value for a lease with 12,000 miles per year.

I always advise consumers to roll fees into vehicles' payments.

I personally don't worry all that much about holdback. I shoot for a selling price that's close to dealer invoice minus incentives on most high volume vehicles.

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2013

Here's the information that you're looking for leroybrown72. Honda Finance's May buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 Accord Coupe 4-cylinder EX with 12,000 miles per year are .00089 and 60% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of an EX-L 4-cylinder are .00089 and 58%.

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Looks to me that the cap cost would need to be $23,500 vs your $23,215 to come up with $231. In any case, it's not even close to the $282.
I think your residual may be wrong. At the Weymouthhonda.com site, their lease calculator indicates that the residual is 56% for a EX-L coupe. Also, while it's wise to put as much down as possible on a purchase, it's the opposite with a lease. If your car is stolen or totalled, everything you paid at inception is gone so you want to minimize those costs. I put everything into the lease and get 36 equal payments. The only exception is if you must keep a low monthly debt payment to income ratio because you intend to apply for a mortgage.

jaxs1 · May 2013

So, it should be cheaper to lease an EX-L coupe vs sedan since you get 2% higher residual, but have the same money factor?
This assumes you can get the coupe for the same discounted price as a sedan and you don't lose the savings to higher insurance premiums on the coupe.

jw074 · May 2013

Any thoughts on this?

http://www.planethondanj.com/happy-honda-days-new-jersey.htm?gclid=COzTwaCGr7cCF- - YqY4AodsAwA8A

It's 10k miles year...but even if you added 5,000 miles x 20 cents/each = $1,000 / 39 months = ~$25/month --> $184/month

Unless they're not mentioning a "cap cost reduction" payment

What's the catch?

kyfdx · May 2013

5K mi/year, equals 16,250 miles on a 39 month lease..... That would change your calculation by a lot..

However, that's not how it's done.... to go from 10K mi/yr to 15K mi/yr, just lower the residual by 3%... that's going to add about $700 total to the lease... so, under $20/mo. more...

Is it legit? No idea... but, add in tax, four years registration and probably a $399 dealer fee on top of all that.. they are already showing a bank fee that looks to be marked up, as well...

If it's legit, and all those costs are added in, you are still only around $210/mo. + tax... with only first payment due at signing... that looks pretty cheap to me for a 39mo, 15K/yr lease...

huskerfan5 · May 2013

The catch is that the lease isn't with Honda Finance. Honda Finance charges $595 while this third party leasing company charges $795. Honda corporate wants to keep you happy so you get future Hondas, most third party leasing companies just want to make as much money off their lease as possible. What does that mean to you - much higher disposition fee and outrageous wear and tear charges. How do I know?, cause I did one of these for my 98 Audi when I didn't know much about leasing. I would be especially nervous with a 39 month lease since that will give them an opportunity to charge for some mechanical issues that they will have claimed to have found.

jbthompson · May 2013

Hi everyone. I am in the market for a new car, and am in love with the new Accord. I have been going back and forth with a local dealer and am struggling to get a sign and drive lease at 200 bucks. Best I have been able to get is around 250 a month. Anyone have any luck? Does Honda do promos like this? I also have a local Toyota dealer that is offer 199 sign and drive leases on Camry LEs, including TTL. I am tempted but want an accord!!!!

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Take the formula for calculating a lease payment (do a web search if you don't have it, you'll need the MSRP, residual pct, money factor and capitalized cost). Find the May residual pct and money factor from one of Car_man's posts, you already have the MRSP and your target payment of $200 and plug them into the formula to back into the capitalized cost. Then back out from the capitalized cost all the fees you plan to put into the lease so you can do a sign and drive, such as the Honda Finance lease inception fee of $595, your local registration fees, etc . That will leave you with the selling price of the car. Compare that number with the prices you see in the Prices Paid forum. I'm sure your selling price won't come close to the best selling price so far on that forum. One fo the reasons that Toyota is offering some really good deals now is because they want people like you, who really want an Accord, to settle for a Camry.

charles_guy · May 2013

hamiltons running same here jersey$169. its bs when you get there. we know from coupla weeks past http://www.hamiltonhonda.net/newspaper-ads.htmis the advert

residual 15661. not from honda. 10k only. oh its website mistake. wheel locks trunk tray guards=499+tax. tax&tax&tax on everything

lxcrv was like more n 2000 to deal and was really like 309 month

they have free dogs n food Memorial Day so driving there in our cheaper leased crv for some food

happy holiday evryone

slamshifter · May 2013

I was watching a professional baseball game yesterday and the t.v. Advert caught my eye for the following; 2013 Honda Accord LX, $0 down for $189.00 a month for 36-month/12,000 miles per year allowance. Subject to limited availability. Excludes taxes, titles and fees. Financing through AHFC. Dealer sets actual vehicle sale price. MSRP $23270 Net cap cost $20734.16. Assuming I am top tier credit with AHFC, and additonal taxes, title and fees apply, what can I expect the final monthly payment to be? The local county tax is 6.75%. I am also assuming this is a bare bones Accord.

huskerfan5 · May 2013

For every $1,000 you add to the cap cost, your payment will go up about $30. You will need to add the lease inception fee of $595 as well as the dealer doc fees and title/registration fees. Those fees will differ by locality. You should still try to negotiate a decrease in the $20,734.

sanman1 · May 2013

Thanks car-man, I ended up paying $27,700 and rolled all fees into the lease payment. The price with $500 flex cash (adjusted cap cost) was $29,200. This included the $595 and $699 dealer fee. The dealer fee they were not moving on and the price of the car was already 10% under MSRP. I could've maybe had them go down another $300 on selling price but that's about it. They also gave me an ipad mini in the deal. Not a big deal it's only a $300 item. They were wiling to take it back and give me the $300 off of the car but that would not do much to the payment. Think I got a decent deal? Too late now anyway but curious.

Thanks again!

ral2167 · May 2013

So what did the monthly payment come to before taxes?

sanman1 · May 2013

Payment before sales tax is $392.00. They rolled first payment, tax tag, aquisition fee, and dealer fee into the lease deal. No money out of pocket at drive off.

slamshifter · May 2013

Huskerfan: Sorry for carpet bombing...I shopped a 13 Accord LX and and got a local dealer down to $20,995 and $255 a month with 1st months payment and $0 sec dep. I shopped a comparable '13 Sube Impreza 5 door premium edition because the similar price point. Sube wins the business with a final negotiated price of 20,000. According to several auto locator services the Sube is invoiced at $21267 and dealer has it MSRP $22500. They had the factory add on a cold weather pkg and it came in around $23,500. So...here's the deal...gimme the scoop huskerfan...is this a good deal???

Selling price: $20,000
36 month lease
12000 miles/per annum
Residual 61%
MF: .00100
Base payment $223
Monthly payment = $239 month ($223 + 6.75% tax)
Due at signing: $583 (1st month of $223/$250 doc fee/$60

Appreciate the feedback!

slamshifter · May 2013

Well the deal went down on the Sube and all's well that ends well. My local Honda dealer told me, "We aren't in the car wholesale business" so I went with the Sube. End of story.

jw074 · May 2013

Hi,

Just wondering what some realistic sale prices are for LX, Sport, EX? How much below invoice can one get?

Invoices I found incl destination: 21,369/22,929/24,037 for LX/Sport/EX

Weymouth's site has: 20,697/22192/23250

How much lower can one reasonably get?

I'm assuming residual, and MF aren't negotiable right? That's why focusing on negotiating the sale price.

So far I've gotten sale price of 20958/22485/23571 for LX/Sport/EX

2. Also, I've read people posting that it is recommended to roll the fees (doc, bank, DMV, etc) into the monthly payments, instead of paying up front? Any reason (aside from not having to pay upfront)?

thank you for all of the advice on the forums

slamshifter · May 2013

Just went down that road with an LX priced at $20995...it was as low as dealer would go and I have previously leased 5 Hondas from those guys. Their best counter offer was 3 yr/36k miles with $0 down came out to $255 a month. Got the AWD Subaru for $1000 less and $30 a month cheaper. Great car for the money, loads of options and very decent residual and MF. Honda dealers just aren't hungry enough I guess (lol)

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Good deal. You lucked out that Brian was familiar with Impreza pricing. Good residual for May and the MF was decentl

huskerfan5 · May 2013

I always recommend putting everything into the lease and getting 36 equal monthly payments because if the car is stolen or totaled, you lose everything you paid at inception. The only reason not to do that is if you plan on applying for a mortgage and need to keep your debt payment to income ratio down

jw074 · May 2013

What happens if I don't buy today?

Tomorrow is June 1...will they still honor the price, or do they go up again?

Just wondering bc what if in June Honda offers dealers more flexcash/rebates or something?

Bc I don't need a care TODAY...I can wait another week or 2

brian125 · May 2013

If dealers wont honor the May,31 price quoted its best to start your buying process at the end of June.

June could have a better rebate and flex cash deals.

End of June is the end of the 2 Quarter for car companies. Big savings at end of the month for sure.. Dealers that need those sale incentive numbers will be hungry to sell at much lower prices..

huskerfan5 · May 2013

Brian is right about the pricing but you need to take the residual and money factor into consideration too and those can change every 30 days.
Just like you can expect pricing to go down in June, it is likely that residuals will go down in June also. Each percentage point decrease will increase the lease by about $8. On the other hand, each $265 decrease in your cap cost will lower the payment by about $8. Doubt the money factor will change much between May and June. Economy wise, theres probably a greater chance that MFs would rise than fall but they could also lower the MF to spur volume. If I were you, Id take my chances and wait till June.

etrout85 · June 2013

SOUTHERN CALI

Anyone know the June MF and Res % for all the trims? Where/how do you guys get that sort of info?

Also how exactly is the customer's credit scored factored in? There's different tiers of MF depending on customer credit?

Most dealerships do not want to talk about how leasing actually works. Some sales reps. and managers do not know how it works. They get very defensive: "Why do the details matter? Its $XXX a month. That's the bottom line."

Happy hunting all!

2013 and earlier-Honda Accord Lease Questions

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